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Dan Lehman Dan Lehman is offline
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First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Jan 2007
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Default Can anyone ID this knot?

and indeed, in dutch instructions, this form sometimes shows up

And in English instructions, too. From one Dutch knot tyer I read
that the two forms are known--in parlance but not in the literature--
as, roughly translated, Naval & Merchant Naval ("Marine"?).

e.g.: In the 19th century for the German navy the correct bowline
was tail outside, while for the german mercantile marine the
correct bowline was tail inside.


Peter, where'd you learn this? --sounds much like my source
re the Dutch, and as Dutch/German are so close, I think one
or the other has it wrong (and I just noticed one mistake re
"respectively" in my source, so ...).

in english texts it is mentioned as the wrong bowline

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Its a 'reverse' bowline Very weak and can 'trip'


There is so much silly stuff re knots! These knots have
been tested in kernmantle ropes and found to be of equal
strength--though with each there is a range of dressing
and orientation that might affect such strength. As for
"trip"ing, if anything the common Bowline is more
vulnerable to capsizing, as the part of the knot to turn
over--i.e., the nipping loop in the standing part--will
have begun this by pulling the end in that direction
(whereas in the end-outside bowline the corresponding
part will bear load).

with the bad press that the bowline gets for loosening
when the load is removed, I wonder if I might be better
off using a buntline hitch instead.

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FWIW, bowline failures are quite rare - while its often
discussed few people can offer a recent example


It would help the understanding were such knot failures
(and successes--"behavior", either way) presented as
behavior ***of a material so knotted***,
and NOT of a *knot* (which means a schema for making
some physical entity). In rockclimbing kernmantle nylon
ropes--which are considerably firmer/stiffer than the
yachting double-braid shown here, a bowline can loosen
readily and come untied--from jiggling, or by capsizing
upon a fall. Black Diamond Equipment's recent catalogue
featured the story of one of their employees who suffered
this fate (and is recovering). No amount of success in
using bowlines in material-X can influence how things
to in material-W.

--dl*
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