However, the 15% improvement you're claiming
would imply a 100 point PHRF improvement.

Only if the polars were correct. Quite a few boats have prove abilities
well beyond the polars originally drawn up.

So it would appear that your major burst of speed only works on
boats
that are not racing, when no one is watching.

Nope, it appears on a coarse which you refuse to acknowledge.


You kept saying you weren't pointing that high. However, you
actually
admitted several times that you have no idea what your point of sail
actually was.

That is to say I don't know the specific number you'd demand for this
discussion.

So tell us Bob, were you even there?

Now you're just being silly. I shot the clips with my Casio.

Oh, and catamarans don't count! My PDQ actually does
have a VMG of 6.2 at 47 degrees in 20 knots true wind. I guess that
means I would toast you upwind!


I mentioned it only because you and others are always so quick to
point out the poor upwind performance of my cat.

Actually, your cat is quite fast, roomy and very practical as a
floating home. It's just missing the fun and romance of sailing as many
of us prefer.


However, with a wind
over 12-14 knots, my VMG to Windward exceeds that of even performance
monohulls with the same length and sail area.

Uh, okay. Jetskis are also faster.

Sometime you say that, other times you don't.


I have always maintained that the mark was to windward in clip #2, but
that we weren't beating.

You probably weren't even there.

Oh no!


You said several times he was reading off his GPS. A GPS alone

Who said GPS alone? Were the other instruments to be ignored?

Frankly I'm skeptical as to whether a basic system like Ray
ST60 can do it, I certainly take my instruments with a huge grain of
salt.


Well, they're your instruments. Trust them or don't.


Actually, that's one of the basic issues of the discussion; you
should
have realized immediately that a VMG to Windward of 6 knots was bogus.


Except that you still refuse to admit that VMG to windward is ANY
course above a beam reach. That's a fact.


Its even possible that you could have momentarily hit that when
close to the wind

We weren't very close to the wind.


Sure, within about 15%. That's a pretty good estimate.

Estimate means GUESS, educated or not.


You also claimed it was "directly to windward." So are you now
claiming that "directly to windward" means anything on the windward
side of your boat? Of course, you don't understand the meaning of
these words, do you?


Uh, Jeff. Let's try to be honest for a second. Here's my exact quote:
"Second clip, still some nice air and off to windward at just over 6
knots VMG.... "
OFF TO WINDWARD is not directly to windward, now is it??? Hmmmm? Where
is the word DIRECTLY???
Looks like you read my post and inferred what you needed to draw out
this entertaining debate! But the fact is that you got it
wrong....which is what you wanted to do anyway.


which video? Frankly, all of them are so poor that very little can
be
deduced about the performance.

Really? The folks on the Beneteau lists liked them. Can I see one of
your video clips that you generously posted to this or some other
group?


Why can't you actually tell use how
close to the wind you were sailing? Weren't you there?

Sure I was there. Will you take an estimate?



The 8 knots speed through the water, at 45 degrees to the wind,
yields
a VMG of 5.65 knots. At 50 degrees this becomes 5.1, at 55 degrees
its 4.6, and at 60 its 4 knots. This doesn't include leeway, which
the GPS would pick up, so you have to add 3 to 4 degrees and degrade
the performance accordingly.

Sure, read all that...and as I also indicated we TOPPED 8 knots and
winds were higher than 14 knots on the water. The 35s5 does a fine job
of cutting leeway with her wing. With that in mind my 6 knot claim
doesn't appear to be the gross error you make it out to be. And in all
of this, knowing we were on the LIS you utterly failed to take into
account a favorable current. I did not check, but that also could play
a part. You've hardly been complete in your examination of the videos,
the facts as presented and so on.


Maybe a bit, but not 15% upwind.


Are you sure?


The Express is a beauty compared to your boat.

Not many...and no one I know thinks the Express is a good looking boat.
Then again, if you got past the looks of a PDQ 36, anything is
possible. I've had nothing but compliments.


yada yada yada. Whenever you lose an argument, you start using
terms
that you don't understand so you sound important.

Oh no! Jeff says I lost the argument, so it must be true!


What a putz!

A putz who sails more than you and has a ton of fun! Doing a short
cruise this weekend starting tomorrow afternoon, then delivering a
Catalina 34 from Mystic to my club. How much sailing are you getting
in? And I'm not even retired!


Yes I did. What about it?


So you lied. Exactly.


It doesn't change the math.

And yet you change the numbers when they fail to support you!


Moreover, you've said the mark was directly upwind

Another lie. I said it was to windward, which is NOT directly to
windward regarding course.


If your goal was to demonstrate total ignorance about sailing,
you've
succeeded admirably!

Yes, I've exposed you. But I do feel sad about it.


Directly To Windward? None, for your boat. But you seem to be
confused about the term "VMG to Windward."

There he goes again with the "directly" stuff. It's his ace in the
a-hole!



RB
35s5
NY