"DSK" wrote in message


Maxprop wrote:
Absolutely. A 505, for example, dumps its load right now after
righting.
In fact it rides so high on its side that it takes almost no water
aboard
when righted.

And can be difficult to climb into from the water... one of the
less-often-told benefits of a completely open transom!

... A Snipe has too much rocker (sorry, canoe term) in its keel,
making for a low spot at the daggerboard trunk.

Rocker is a common term for all kinds of hulls. I don't think a Snipe a
good candidate for a full double bottom, completely self-bailing,
because of the low freeboard & the rocker you mention. A friend of mine
tried to make a Comet fully self-bailing and ended up with a board
boat... it was fun to sail but it wasn't what he intended!

I haven't seen any new Snipes lately, but when we left that class most of
the boats *were* built with a full double bottom. And yes, the sole was
high enough to put your knees in your face, it seemed.


The last dinghy I raced seriously was a Thistle. No deck, deep bilge
relative to the transom, and it didn't take much of a rail in the water
to
ship about 100 gallons in a flash. Bailers are a must on Thistles. I
learned to hate that boat.


The thing I dislike about Thistles is the set of bruises you acquire in
sailing them. Plus droop-hiking is not healthy and I'm getting a bit
creaky (or maybe a bit too smart) to be into that kind of self-abuse.

Thistle sailors suffer a particularly singular malady termed "rail tail"
from sitting on that 2" rail for prolonged periods. Our national newsletter
had ads for special shorts with padding specific to sailing/crewing
Thistles. I bought a pair and they really helped, but they also coined a
new term: "Thistle butt," referring to the way one looked while walking
around the marina in them.


Pony Express wrote:
Yeah, after righting a Thistle, you'll have about
800 gallons of water in it. Not much fun.

No no, 900 at least!

One question, why was the rail in the water if you
were racing seriously?

Really vigorous roll tacks? It can't be due to chop because nobody raes
Thistles in 3 knots of wind.

But the Thistle is a classic... a really pretty boat and wicked fast in
light air.

I doubt if any boat moves quite as well in 5kts with spinnaker flying.
They're amazing, and scary like a Finn on a dead run in high winds.

We raced Snipes in the late 60s and early 70s in Michigan and later in
Denver. It was the second largest one-design class at the time
(following
the Sunfish), so it was easy to find a fleet and/or competition.


There's something to be said for big classes. Fun! But the glory days of
that kind of sailing are over... partly IMHO because American sailors
have vigorously resisted innovation. It's a telling sign that our most
popular classes are all many decades old and not updated much. The Hobie
16 and the Laser are the newest... and among the biggest. When trying to
promote the Johnson 18 we ran into all kinds of devious skullduggery...
and in some cases, vicious lies.

.... Not much interest in Snipes any
longer. In Michigan the Scows seem to be dominant, especially the MC.
Lots
of C and E fleets, too.

The Scow Sailor Mafia was one of the most active groups in murdering any
chance of a Johnson 18 class... ironic considering that a scow builder
invented it & went out of business trying to promote it. Scows are fun
but you'll notice that they're not self-bailing either. We had a great
time in Charleston earlier this year watching a big E-Scow regatta.

Scows don't self-bail, but they seldom capsize either. Again, like the 505,
they sit really high on their sides when down. And for some reason they
don't even ship much water if turtled and righted. I never liked the MC,
the last class boat we owned. It wasn't comfortable to sail, unlike a
Lightning, nor was it particularly fast or blessed with any particular
redeeming value, beyond the big, ubiquitous fleets in this area.

Max