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On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 18:26:57 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote:

But that's the point isn't it... we *don't* know where they're hiding,
and we have neither the human assets in the population to help
us, nor do we have adequate ground forces to make the attacks
impossible or so costly as to be ineffective.

And, the Iraqis are better at it you say... well, maybe they should
be in charge.... oops, finally Bushy and team realized this. Well, we
all make mistakes, such as not having a plan to begin with?????


They "realized" this from the start, which I'm sure you know. Bush has
been talking about a democratically-elected Iraqi taking over a Free
Iraq since the war began. It's in every speech, almost. The dirty
little secret is that it's only the Iraqi Baath Party killers that are
eager and willing to pick up the mantle of power tomorrow at 7 AM--or
anytime they can. Everyone else--everyone that you'd want in power over
there--wants the security problems handled first. The Iraqi council is
in no hurry, and if you've been following this, it was Bremer that was
kicking the Iraqi council's ass to spur them to get their constitution
finished, so elections could happen sooner. Since the Iraqi council
doesn't seem willing to finish their constitution on time, Plan B is an
interim government headed by one member of the council that they pick
to take over till proper elections can happen, under the new
constitutional process.

This is Bush from two and a half months ago:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0030907-1.html

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[snip]

First, we are taking direct action against the terrorists in the Iraqi
theater...

[snip]

Second, we are committed to expanding international cooperation in the
reconstruction and security...

[snip]

I recognize that not all of our friends agreed with our decision to
enforce the Security Council resolutions and remove Saddam Hussein from
power. Yet we cannot let past differences interfere with present
duties. Terrorists in Iraq have attacked representatives of the
civilized world, and opposing them must be the cause of the civilized
world. Members of the United Nations now have an opportunity -- and the
responsibility -- to assume a broader role in assuring that Iraq
becomes a free and democratic nation.

Third, we are encouraging the orderly transfer of sovereignty and
authority to the Iraqi people. Our coalition came to Iraq as liberators
and we will depart as liberators. Right now Iraq has its own Governing
Council, comprised of 25 leaders representing Iraq's diverse people.
The Governing Council recently appointed cabinet ministers to run
government departments. Already more than 90 percent of towns and
cities have functioning local governments, which are restoring basic
services. We're helping to train civil defense forces to keep order,
and an Iraqi police service to enforce the law, a facilities protection
service, Iraqi border guards to help secure the borders, and a new
Iraqi army. In all these roles, there are now some 60,000 Iraqi
citizens under arms, defending the security of their own country, and
we are accelerating the training of more.

Iraq is ready to take the next steps toward self-government. The
Security Council resolution we introduce will encourage Iraq's
Governing Council to submit a plan and a timetable for the drafting of
a constitution and for free elections. From the outset, I have
expressed confidence in the ability of the Iraqi people to govern
themselves. Now they must rise to the responsibilities of a free people
and secure the blessings of their own liberty.

Our strategy in Iraq will require new resources. We have conducted a
thorough assessment of our military and reconstruction needs in Iraq,
and also in Afghanistan. I will soon submit to Congress a request for
$87 billion. The request will cover ongoing military and intelligence
operations in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere, which we expect will
cost $66 billion over the next year. This budget request will also
support our commitment to helping the Iraqi and Afghan people rebuild
their own nations, after decades of oppression and mismanagement. We
will provide funds to help them improve security. And we will help them
to restore basic services, such as electricity and water, and to build
new schools, roads, and medical clinics. This effort is essential to
the stability of those nations, and therefore, to our own security. Now
and in the future, we will support our troops and we will keep our word
to the more than 50 million people of Afghanistan and Iraq.

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"two wheels" wrote in message
.. .
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On 26 Nov 2003 00:35:00 GMT, (Bobsprit) wrote:

There are many misconceptions among you pacifists
and liberals. One of the worst of these is that terrorists
are brave. If they were anything but cowards they
would not have to be terrorists.

The very idea that terrorists are brave or cowards is crazy. They
are insane. They won't ever stop, certainly not against the tiny
forces we're presenting to them. US effort is a drop in the bucket
and will fuel horrible attacks and more death, thanks to Bush.

RB

Tiny forces? Nonsense. The problem isn't the size of our force. It's
more than enough if we knew where the terrorists who plant the
roadside bombs were hiding. The problem is sorting out the
terrorists from the innocent--that's the hard problem. Finding the
terrorists is the one thing that the newly-trained Iraqi forces will
be able to do much
better than we ever could.

two wheels

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