Keith Meredith wrote:
Hi

What kit would you advise a new paddler to spend money on?

Keith

My club lists it as follows, after buying a long john wet suit :
If you get the canoeing bug your purchase list should then be 1- wet suit
boots, 2 - drycag ( a

warmer, more waterproof version of the 'splashcag', 3 - paddle, 4 - decent
spraydeck, 5 -

buoyancy aid, 6 - helmet, 7 - your own boat.



--
Muzz
send mail to

In article , Muzz
wrote:
Keith Meredith wrote:
Hi

What kit would you advise a new paddler to spend money on?

Keith

My club lists it as follows, after buying a long john wet suit :

Some youngsters (1* standard) turned up at my Club with wetsuits - I refused
to let them on the water until they had changed into T-shirts and shorts.

I have never paddled in conditions in this country in the last 35 years where
a thermal / T-shirt / Lightweight cag combo was not adequate (add a woolly
hat, maybe and pogies for the woossies). Even in a -25 degree chill factor.
No wetsuits. No wet suit boots, no dry cags or neoprene collars and cuffs.

Proper canoeing, mind, not sub-aqua or caving.


Allan Bennett
Not a fan of frogs

--

Allan Bennett wrote:
Some youngsters (1* standard) turned up at my Club with
wetsuits - I refused to let them on the water until they
had changed into T-shirts and shorts.

I have never paddled in conditions in this country in the
last 35 years where a thermal / T-shirt / Lightweight cag
combo was not adequate (add a woolly hat, maybe and
pogies for the woossies). Even in a -25 degree chill
factor. No wetsuits. No wet suit boots, no dry cags or
neoprene collars and cuffs.

I'll pass this to the president of Inverness Canoe Club :-)


--
Muzz
send mail to

But why make yourself cold and wet when you can be warm and dry? Seems
bloody stupid to me! I love my dry cag, wouldn't want to learn to roll
without it. I also get cold after 30mins on the sea even with dry cag and
fleece, so I dunno where you're paddling!

Charlotte.

"Allan Bennett" wrote in message
...
In article , Muzz
wrote:
Keith Meredith wrote:
Hi

What kit would you advise a new paddler to spend money on?

Keith

My club lists it as follows, after buying a long john wet suit :

Some youngsters (1* standard) turned up at my Club with wetsuits - I
refused
to let them on the water until they had changed into T-shirts and shorts.

I have never paddled in conditions in this country in the last 35 years
where
a thermal / T-shirt / Lightweight cag combo was not adequate (add a woolly
hat, maybe and pogies for the woossies). Even in a -25 degree chill
factor.
No wetsuits. No wet suit boots, no dry cags or neoprene collars and
cuffs.

Proper canoeing, mind, not sub-aqua or caving.


Allan Bennett
Not a fan of frogs

--

Charlie wrote:
But why make yourself cold and wet when you can be warm and dry? Seems
bloody stupid to me!

Being dry requires not only that outside water stays out, but that
inside water (i.e., sweat) doesn't stay in. And whatever you're told
about breathable waterproof fabrics by marketing, /none/ of them will
let out sweat at anything like the rate a paddler doing even a moderate
amount of work will generate.
Consequently I avoid wearing a cag unless there'll be sufficient
rain/spray to get me wet faster than my shirt will normally dry.
Otherwise I'll be /too/ warm, and not very dry.

That's for typical sea paddling, in the surf or the (white) river I'll
always wear the cag as otherwise I'll get wet and cold. For Allan's
flavour of paddling (fla****er and fast AFAICT) I'd agree that something
like a Helly Lifa top is just about ideal, and I'd certainly want a lot
more in white water. "Paddling" can mean either, or quite a few other
things too. Would polo players bother with dry suits? Doubt it...

I love my dry cag, wouldn't want to learn to roll
without it. I also get cold after 30mins on the sea even with dry cag and
fleece, so I dunno where you're paddling!

Dry cag /and/ fleece? Bloody 'ell Charlie, you must be /very/ prone to
the cold or not doing any work!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

In article , Charlie
wrote:
But why make yourself cold and wet when you can be warm and dry?

But I don't get cold because I wear the right kit for the conditions! That's
why paddling on cold days in the /right/ kit is so enjoyable.

Seems bloody stupid to me! I love my dry cag, wouldn't want to learn to
roll without it. I also get cold after 30mins on the sea even with dry cag
and fleece, so I dunno where you're paddling!

Therein lies the problem with all the recommendations for kit for a beginner!
None of you have stated that you are recommending stuff for specialist and
possibly extreme forms of canoeing - to a beginner!. Most of the kit you
advocate is unnecessary and expensive. It is also restrictive and limits the
enjoyment of paddling, IMO.


Allan Bennett
Not a fan of arctic rolls


--

Last month I plucked three people out of the water. Now I am in the
North Atlantic with the Labrador Current keeping the water below 10 C
all year around.
Two of the folks that went over were in a double and had no idea what
they were up to. They were wearing jeans and T shirts. They were less
than comfortable with the man in a pure panic from the shock of cold
water. The lady was pretty calm.
The other rescue was a beginner but he had read that the water was
cold. He wore a wet suit ( 2 MM) and for him it was little more than an
embaracement and was uncomfortable. He was back in the boat quickly
because of his ability to listen, an idea how to do this in the first
place and the dread of cold water and shock of imersion was mitigated
by a wet suit.
In 1999 the finest paddler I have ever met, stated. " I don't swim " he
was leading a large tour of mostly beginners in May. We were in a
remote area ( compatitively ) and a nasty wind rolled in. Of the 35 or
so people about half ended up in the water.
At one point Jimbo was helping stabalize a speed boat by hanging on tt
the gunnels on one side as a casualty was hauled aboard. A wave picked
the speed boat up and planted it on top of Jimbo turning his boat
upside down ( luckily ): Jimbo swam.
He was in neoprene shorts. Jimbo went from leader, guide, rescuer
streight to casualty sucking up rescue energies.
Had he a wet suit or ( like me ) a dry suit he would have been back in
the fight imediately.
If the water is at all cold , wear neoprene.
My experiences are in water that is normally cold. The ponds and lakes
here rarely excede 17 C . If the water is over 20 C ignore this..
Thanks
Alex
The Names of the casualties have been omited or changed. In Jimbos case
only slightly.
As he remains the finest paddler I have ever met I can say that knowing
it will gain a laugh even here in Newfoundland.

wrote:
Last month I plucked three people out of the water. Now I am in the
North Atlantic with the Labrador Current keeping the water below 10 C
all year around.

Thobut you'll have trouble finding anything that cold in the UK (and=20
while anyone is welcome to visit here the context would appear to me to=20
be the UK) unless you're out in a river in the depths of winter. That=20
pretty much rules out beginners unless they're masochists with it.

If the water is at all cold , wear neoprene.

How cold is cold?

And you must also factor in the degree to which dressing for the swim=20
will affect your primary paddling. The current Knoydart catalogue=20
suggests you always dress for the swinm, and that a Goretex drysuit=20
(which they happen to sell for mucho =A3=A3=A3s) is always ideal as you c=
an=20
layer underneath to suit. If it's a hot day (in Scotland that will mean =

a wee bit over 20 C (unlikely to get as far as 25) ambient but direct=20
sunshine and no respite from it, the water will be several degrees=20
cooler) then I'll be steaming in a BA and sun cream, so bugger putting=20
on a drysuit or wetsuit unless I want to expire from heat exhaustion.=20
If I can get out of the water in a reasonable time then I'll warm up=20
very quickly.

And in many cases a swim isn't going to be a real problem. Offshore in=20
the N. Atlantic with a cold current thrown in, absolutely, but a flat=20
river less than 25m from bank to bank, rather less so... You need=20
context to make lists of necessary equipment mean much.

Pete.
--=20
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

How Cold id cold?
Cold is what the Clyde is now . I swam in the Clyde and Gareloch as a
kid. At 10 years old that water was bitter.

Less than 25 Meters from a bank with the ability to get out is not bad.

Actually it does not even leave an argument, if you are reliably in
flat water, that is 20 + degrees and have a comfortable air temperature
you don't need any of this stuff. If you have a wind chill of - 20 as
posted earlier or any number of other safety issues a wet suit ( if
only a shorty ) is a good idea..
Alex

"Allan Bennett" wrote in message
...
In article , Charlie
wrote:
But why make yourself cold and wet when you can be warm and dry?

But I don't get cold because I wear the right kit for the conditions!
That's
why paddling on cold days in the /right/ kit is so enjoyable.

Seems bloody stupid to me! I love my dry cag, wouldn't want to learn
to
roll without it. I also get cold after 30mins on the sea even with dry
cag
and fleece, so I dunno where you're paddling!

Therein lies the problem with all the recommendations for kit for a
beginner!
None of you have stated that you are recommending stuff for specialist and
possibly extreme forms of canoeing - to a beginner!. Most of the kit you
advocate is unnecessary and expensive. It is also restrictive and limits
the
enjoyment of paddling, IMO.


In your opinion - fine. But the list is in order of preference for a
beginner.

The kit is not restrictive, it is not unnecessary and it need not be
expensive. Can't see how keeping drier and warmer detracts from the
enjoyment of the activity.

Ewan Scott