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In article , Muzz
wrote: Keith Meredith wrote: Hi What kit would you advise a new paddler to spend money on? Keith My club lists it as follows, after buying a long john wet suit : Some youngsters (1* standard) turned up at my Club with wetsuits - I refused to let them on the water until they had changed into T-shirts and shorts. I have never paddled in conditions in this country in the last 35 years where a thermal / T-shirt / Lightweight cag combo was not adequate (add a woolly hat, maybe and pogies for the woossies). Even in a -25 degree chill factor. No wetsuits. No wet suit boots, no dry cags or neoprene collars and cuffs. Proper canoeing, mind, not sub-aqua or caving. Allan Bennett Not a fan of frogs -- |
But why make yourself cold and wet when you can be warm and dry? Seems
bloody stupid to me! I love my dry cag, wouldn't want to learn to roll without it. I also get cold after 30mins on the sea even with dry cag and fleece, so I dunno where you're paddling! Charlotte. "Allan Bennett" wrote in message ... In article , Muzz wrote: Keith Meredith wrote: Hi What kit would you advise a new paddler to spend money on? Keith My club lists it as follows, after buying a long john wet suit : Some youngsters (1* standard) turned up at my Club with wetsuits - I refused to let them on the water until they had changed into T-shirts and shorts. I have never paddled in conditions in this country in the last 35 years where a thermal / T-shirt / Lightweight cag combo was not adequate (add a woolly hat, maybe and pogies for the woossies). Even in a -25 degree chill factor. No wetsuits. No wet suit boots, no dry cags or neoprene collars and cuffs. Proper canoeing, mind, not sub-aqua or caving. Allan Bennett Not a fan of frogs -- |
In article , Charlie
wrote: But why make yourself cold and wet when you can be warm and dry? But I don't get cold because I wear the right kit for the conditions! That's why paddling on cold days in the /right/ kit is so enjoyable. Seems bloody stupid to me! I love my dry cag, wouldn't want to learn to roll without it. I also get cold after 30mins on the sea even with dry cag and fleece, so I dunno where you're paddling! Therein lies the problem with all the recommendations for kit for a beginner! None of you have stated that you are recommending stuff for specialist and possibly extreme forms of canoeing - to a beginner!. Most of the kit you advocate is unnecessary and expensive. It is also restrictive and limits the enjoyment of paddling, IMO. Allan Bennett Not a fan of arctic rolls -- |
Charlie wrote:
But why make yourself cold and wet when you can be warm and dry? Seems bloody stupid to me! Being dry requires not only that outside water stays out, but that inside water (i.e., sweat) doesn't stay in. And whatever you're told about breathable waterproof fabrics by marketing, /none/ of them will let out sweat at anything like the rate a paddler doing even a moderate amount of work will generate. Consequently I avoid wearing a cag unless there'll be sufficient rain/spray to get me wet faster than my shirt will normally dry. Otherwise I'll be /too/ warm, and not very dry. That's for typical sea paddling, in the surf or the (white) river I'll always wear the cag as otherwise I'll get wet and cold. For Allan's flavour of paddling (fla****er and fast AFAICT) I'd agree that something like a Helly Lifa top is just about ideal, and I'd certainly want a lot more in white water. "Paddling" can mean either, or quite a few other things too. Would polo players bother with dry suits? Doubt it... I love my dry cag, wouldn't want to learn to roll without it. I also get cold after 30mins on the sea even with dry cag and fleece, so I dunno where you're paddling! Dry cag /and/ fleece? Bloody 'ell Charlie, you must be /very/ prone to the cold or not doing any work! Pete. -- Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ |
Allan Bennett wrote:
Footwear, yes. But definitely not wetsuit boots. Cheap plimmies are the best for beginners. I prefer sandals. If the cockpit is dry enough for your feet to get out of any puddles therein then a foot in sandals will dry out quickly from body heat and as a result be warmer than if it's covered in a layer of wet plimmie or wet neoprene. I was very surprised when I found my feet stayed warmer /without/ neoprene socks, but if your feet aren't permanently awash and/or in the open air then you're actually better off without anything wet covering the foot IME. Windproof outer layer, certainly. But definitely NOT neo cuffs and neck seals. Lots of reasons, but basically they are crap, uncomfortable and unnecessary. Depends what you're doing. I use a semi-dry cag if I use a cag at all for comfort reasons, primarily around the neck. But in surf I'm happy to borrow a dry cag because comfort while upright is a bit of a non-issue battering through breakers, and comfort upside down or shortly after such is greatly improved. Similarly with cuffs: the paddling/water style will determine how much water gets up one's sleeves or not. Pete. -- Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ |
wrote:
For chucking real money I would spend all the extra or available cash (= after food and rent ) on a BA and a paddle. If you love the sport a high quality BA and Paddle willl make a huge difference. But what paddle? My sea paddle would set you back about =A3200 if you=20 went and bought one yourself. I like it a lot for sea touring, but it's = too long for whitewater use and the blades aren't up to the abuse of=20 bouncing off rocks. A polo player would probably have little use for=20 variable feather, and so on. A good paddle is indeed worth spending on, = but only when you know what "good" is /for your own situation/. And it's also the case that a good paddle isn't /necessarily/ a lot of=20 money. A friend paddles his home made baidarka with a home made=20 traditional wooden paddle, basically a long stick with flattened ends.=20 Cost nothing but time, works very well, and it's easier to roll with=20 than my carbon fibre confection. Pete. --=20 Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ |
Last month I plucked three people out of the water. Now I am in the
North Atlantic with the Labrador Current keeping the water below 10 C all year around. Two of the folks that went over were in a double and had no idea what they were up to. They were wearing jeans and T shirts. They were less than comfortable with the man in a pure panic from the shock of cold water. The lady was pretty calm. The other rescue was a beginner but he had read that the water was cold. He wore a wet suit ( 2 MM) and for him it was little more than an embaracement and was uncomfortable. He was back in the boat quickly because of his ability to listen, an idea how to do this in the first place and the dread of cold water and shock of imersion was mitigated by a wet suit. In 1999 the finest paddler I have ever met, stated. " I don't swim " he was leading a large tour of mostly beginners in May. We were in a remote area ( compatitively ) and a nasty wind rolled in. Of the 35 or so people about half ended up in the water. At one point Jimbo was helping stabalize a speed boat by hanging on tt the gunnels on one side as a casualty was hauled aboard. A wave picked the speed boat up and planted it on top of Jimbo turning his boat upside down ( luckily ): Jimbo swam. He was in neoprene shorts. Jimbo went from leader, guide, rescuer streight to casualty sucking up rescue energies. Had he a wet suit or ( like me ) a dry suit he would have been back in the fight imediately. If the water is at all cold , wear neoprene. My experiences are in water that is normally cold. The ponds and lakes here rarely excede 17 C . If the water is over 20 C ignore this.. Thanks Alex The Names of the casualties have been omited or changed. In Jimbos case only slightly. As he remains the finest paddler I have ever met I can say that knowing it will gain a laugh even here in Newfoundland. |
wrote:
Last month I plucked three people out of the water. Now I am in the North Atlantic with the Labrador Current keeping the water below 10 C all year around. Thobut you'll have trouble finding anything that cold in the UK (and=20 while anyone is welcome to visit here the context would appear to me to=20 be the UK) unless you're out in a river in the depths of winter. That=20 pretty much rules out beginners unless they're masochists with it. If the water is at all cold , wear neoprene. How cold is cold? And you must also factor in the degree to which dressing for the swim=20 will affect your primary paddling. The current Knoydart catalogue=20 suggests you always dress for the swinm, and that a Goretex drysuit=20 (which they happen to sell for mucho =A3=A3=A3s) is always ideal as you c= an=20 layer underneath to suit. If it's a hot day (in Scotland that will mean = a wee bit over 20 C (unlikely to get as far as 25) ambient but direct=20 sunshine and no respite from it, the water will be several degrees=20 cooler) then I'll be steaming in a BA and sun cream, so bugger putting=20 on a drysuit or wetsuit unless I want to expire from heat exhaustion.=20 If I can get out of the water in a reasonable time then I'll warm up=20 very quickly. And in many cases a swim isn't going to be a real problem. Offshore in=20 the N. Atlantic with a cold current thrown in, absolutely, but a flat=20 river less than 25m from bank to bank, rather less so... You need=20 context to make lists of necessary equipment mean much. Pete. --=20 Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ |
"Allan Bennett" wrote in message ... In article , Muzz wrote: Keith Meredith wrote: Hi What kit would you advise a new paddler to spend money on? Keith My club lists it as follows, after buying a long john wet suit : Some youngsters (1* standard) turned up at my Club with wetsuits - I refused to let them on the water until they had changed into T-shirts and shorts. I have never paddled in conditions in this country in the last 35 years where a thermal / T-shirt / Lightweight cag combo was not adequate (add a woolly hat, maybe and pogies for the woossies). Even in a -25 degree chill factor. No wetsuits. No wet suit boots, no dry cags or neoprene collars and cuffs. Proper canoeing, mind, not sub-aqua or caving. That's fine, but when we are walking through light snow and paddling on rivers fringed with ice it is common sense to try top stay warm. I've been out many times and in the early days it was tee shirts and sweat shirts and a waterproof top. In winter it was damned cold. Properly attired, thermals, long john wetsuit and a dry cag, spray deck, and perhaps open palmed mitts and we can stay warmer much longer, and if we do go for a swim, manage to build up a layer of warmth quite quickly. I see a big difference between kids with gear and kids without, and I don't just mean in their parent's bank balances. The kids with gear stay warmer and happier, and they also, as a side effect have more confidence as they are less concerned about getting wet. I'd stand by what I said earlier. Ewan Scott |
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