Advice please on tourer/sea kayak choice
 

I am a few weeks into Kayaking and want to buy my own Kayak. I am not very
interested in white water stuff. I see myself lazing or touring on canals,
steady rivers, lakes & lochs, estauries and calm-ish coastlines. I am 57,
5'8", about 130 lbs and affected by arthritis in all joints. I have maybe
a quarter of the strength of a normally fit person, but I have good
balance and usually do very well on activities that require hand-eye
co-ordination and other skills/techniques. I therefore want a lighter,
comfortable boat, that I can paddle easily at speed or gliding along. I
want to kayak partly FOR fitness. I like smart/classic looking, high tech,
high performance, high quality things that are also still high on
comfort/convenience aspects (think easy cockpit access/egress and good
seat design/adjustability) and manageable for someone as physically
limited as me. I have scoured the Kayak websites and would like advice on
what to go for? For now, I have narrowed my choice down to the P & H Vela
or the Prijon Catalina. I know these are different propositions. That's
the point. Could any of you look at my needs/brief and appraise me of the
respective merits of these two kayaks in meeting them, or would you
suggest something else, and if so why? Thankyou all, in anticipation :-)

I think (and I'm in no way an expert) you would be best going to a shop that
sells them and trying them. Sit in them and take them out if possible.

Charlie.

"Jayno55" wrote in message
lkaboutboats.com...
I am a few weeks into Kayaking and want to buy my own Kayak. I am not very
interested in white water stuff. I see myself lazing or touring on canals,
steady rivers, lakes & lochs, estauries and calm-ish coastlines. I am 57,
5'8", about 130 lbs and affected by arthritis in all joints. I have maybe
a quarter of the strength of a normally fit person, but I have good
balance and usually do very well on activities that require hand-eye
co-ordination and other skills/techniques. I therefore want a lighter,
comfortable boat, that I can paddle easily at speed or gliding along. I
want to kayak partly FOR fitness. I like smart/classic looking, high tech,
high performance, high quality things that are also still high on
comfort/convenience aspects (think easy cockpit access/egress and good
seat design/adjustability) and manageable for someone as physically
limited as me. I have scoured the Kayak websites and would like advice on
what to go for? For now, I have narrowed my choice down to the P & H Vela
or the Prijon Catalina. I know these are different propositions. That's
the point. Could any of you look at my needs/brief and appraise me of the
respective merits of these two kayaks in meeting them, or would you
suggest something else, and if so why? Thankyou all, in anticipation :-)

Jayno55 wrote:

what to go for? For now, I have narrowed my choice down to the P & H Vela
or the Prijon Catalina. I know these are different propositions. That's
the point. Could any of you look at my needs/brief and appraise me of the
respective merits of these two kayaks in meeting them, or would you
suggest something else, and if so why? Thankyou all, in anticipation :-)

If you're not sure of your needs (and no reason you should be after just
a few weeks), how did you narrow it down to 2 boats? How about the
Valley Avocet, the North Shore Mystral or Shoreline?

Best thing to do is try different boats out. Seated comfort will be
important for your particular needs, and you can't assess a paddling
position and seat from paper specs. Get in the boats that interest you
and try them out.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Thankyou Charlie and Peter,

Of course you are both correct that I need to sit in some possible kayaks
to see how they work for me. I intend to do just that, but I wanted to use
other criteria - and opinions/feedback from people like yourselves - to
narrow down my choices before I made arrangements with manufacturers or
retailers to both sit in and try out such kayaks. This will involve travel
and diary commitments.

To respond to Peter's point specifically, I picked out the Vela and the
Cat for their modest length (I want good tracking on the water, but also
maneouvrability in confined waters like canals etc and manageability for
dry carrying/loading) and size (advertised as suitable for smaller/lighter
paddlers, still sitting low in the water with a light paddler etc).
Obviously I also saw these two kayaks as able to bridge inland touring use
with some seagoing use. I liked their looks and what I have read elsewhere
about their quality. I also thought they were different enough in
construction materials used, form design and features, and rudder vs skeg
etc., to offer an axis for discussion on their relative merits.
Interesting you came back with a suggestion of Valley's Avocet - that is
probably the third kayak I would have included if I had written a longer
post.

I see Peter that you are involved in medical work: it was pleasing to see
your interest in the comfort/ergonomic needs thrown up by my
'differentabilities'. Working these things out on my own can feel like a
rather lonely pursuit. On the same line, I have recently bought Rocky
Snyder's excellent book 'Fit to Paddle: the paddler's guide to strength
and conditioning' but he writes for normally healthy folk, so I am still
going to have to see a Physiotherapist or something to get help with the
physical issues associated with arthritis and kayaking!

I'm still keen on learning from the comments of either of you two or any
other reader, so please keep 'em coming.

Just to let you know, I have similar concerns to yourself. I have problems
with my knees (OCD arthritis) and also with the same problem spreading to my
hips. To top it off I'm a 5ft tall 19 year old girl who (although I'm
cardiacly fit) lacks strength. I wanted something playful to take on the
beautiful sea in Aberystwyth where I live but also to run down rivers. I
chose an I:3 by Pyrahna. My main reason for choosing this one was that it
fitted me well. I went down to Eddy Lines in Llangollen and literally asked
them what they had in stock! I sat in a few daggers and a few others, but
the pyrahna was the one with the comfy outfitting. The seat is like sitting
in an armchair! Coupled with the hip pads and the thigh rests (which on me
are virtually knee rests) it's dead comfy.

Anyway, I'm rambling now. What I meant was, while you are still doing
research why not give a good shop a ring and ask what they have in stock.
If they have a few you think that you may be interested in then go down one
Sunday and just sit in them. It really helped me, and I've only been doing
this lark for about 5 months! The only thing I would say, is that you may
want to wait till a few more months have passed before buying it. It IS a
fair bit of money in the grand scheme of things, and I'm defiantly
regretting my choice. Mostly because they've just bought out the I:4 which
is apparently a billion times more comfy and stable! In retrospect I would
probably go for less of a play boat, but there you go! Right, I'm rambling
again.

I think before narrowing it down to two choices you should paddle with a
club and try out every type of boat they have. Then try out the members
boats. Then try out the ones you liked again. Then look at some specs and
phone the shops.

Don't forget, this is newbie advice from someone who is a newbie herself!
It's my thoughts from buying my own boat.

Charlie.

P.S. Don't forget storage space and gadgets to get in onto the roof of a
car! Factor it into the selling price!


"Jayno55" wrote in message
lkaboutboats.com...
Thankyou Charlie and Peter,

Of course you are both correct that I need to sit in some possible kayaks
to see how they work for me. I intend to do just that, but I wanted to use
other criteria - and opinions/feedback from people like yourselves - to
narrow down my choices before I made arrangements with manufacturers or
retailers to both sit in and try out such kayaks. This will involve travel
and diary commitments.

To respond to Peter's point specifically, I picked out the Vela and the
Cat for their modest length (I want good tracking on the water, but also
maneouvrability in confined waters like canals etc and manageability for
dry carrying/loading) and size (advertised as suitable for smaller/lighter
paddlers, still sitting low in the water with a light paddler etc).
Obviously I also saw these two kayaks as able to bridge inland touring use
with some seagoing use. I liked their looks and what I have read elsewhere
about their quality. I also thought they were different enough in
construction materials used, form design and features, and rudder vs skeg
etc., to offer an axis for discussion on their relative merits.
Interesting you came back with a suggestion of Valley's Avocet - that is
probably the third kayak I would have included if I had written a longer
post.

I see Peter that you are involved in medical work: it was pleasing to see
your interest in the comfort/ergonomic needs thrown up by my
'differentabilities'. Working these things out on my own can feel like a
rather lonely pursuit. On the same line, I have recently bought Rocky
Snyder's excellent book 'Fit to Paddle: the paddler's guide to strength
and conditioning' but he writes for normally healthy folk, so I am still
going to have to see a Physiotherapist or something to get help with the
physical issues associated with arthritis and kayaking!

I'm still keen on learning from the comments of either of you two or any
other reader, so please keep 'em coming.

Jayno55 wrote:

To respond to Peter's point specifically, I picked out the Vela and the
Cat for their modest length (I want good tracking on the water, but also
maneouvrability in confined waters like canals etc and manageability for
dry carrying/loading)

The simplest way to make carrying easier is to get somebody else to help
you. If you'll be going out to sea at all with limited experience then
that's another place where compnay is a Very Good Idea. Though "Less
Than 3 Shall Never Be" is a guideline rather than a rule cast in stone
there is a reason for it, and the reason is most pertinent with relative
inexperience.

I also thought they were different enough in
construction materials used, form design and features, and rudder vs skeg
etc., to offer an axis for discussion on their relative merits.

Relative merits are just that, and where some people love rudders others
find them an unnecessary complication, and for everyone who likes hard
chines someone else doesn't, and so on. I understand you want the most
informed choices possible but at the end of the day it's how /you/ like
the handling and so on.
I've been a sea paddler for 4 years now, and I still couldn't tell you
my ideal boat if I decided to buy a new one. I bought one second hand
having tried it and found it comfortable and stable, and knowing it
would do what I wanted (the seller passed his 5* sea assessment in it!).

I see Peter that you are involved in medical work: it was pleasing to see
your interest in the comfort/ergonomic needs thrown up by my
'differentabilities'.

It was in part concerning that, but only in part. I don't have any
particular joint problems but there are boats I'm very happy to sit in
and paddle for a couple of hours and boats where I feel I'll never walk
again after 10 minutes (playboats admittedly, but some sea boats I find
distinctly less comfortable than my own). There are various fiddles and
faddles you can do to make a boat fit you better, but something where
the default paddling position is one you find innately comfortable is
generally going to be better than something you need to hack to find
bearable. For me it's usually the angle my hips get turned out to brace
myself in that makes the most difference, and in my own boat (a Selkie)
the most comfortable position is also a good brace.

Working these things out on my own can feel like a
rather lonely pursuit. On the same line, I have recently bought Rocky
Snyder's excellent book 'Fit to Paddle: the paddler's guide to strength
and conditioning' but he writes for normally healthy folk, so I am still
going to have to see a Physiotherapist or something to get help with the
physical issues associated with arthritis and kayaking!

A good instructor should be aware of this sort of thing, especially one
with any experience of instruction for fully disabled paddlers. Good
clubs have access to good coaches, and also a pool of boats to try and
experience to tap, and people to paddle with while you get up to speed.

Another thing an instructor will do /much/ better than a book is get
your paddling as efficient as possible so you're using technique rather
than brute force. This is important anyway, but if you're behind the
curve for any reason it's even more important still. Developing a good
touring paddling technique is probably going to be more important than
honing muscles, not that that would be a bad thing.

I'm still keen on learning from the comments of either of you two or any
other reader, so please keep 'em coming.

With the above in mind, look up a good club with a touring bias and then
you'll be among kindred souls doing what you want with direct experience
and Toys to play with. It'll also give you a higher possibility of a
second hand boat which could save you a /lot/ of money, then maybe get a
new one in a year or 3 when you've more idea of your own Perfect Boat.
Another thing saving money will do is let you spend more on a better
paddle. Something like a Lendal touring paddle with a G1F shaft is less
stiff and thus less strain on your joints than a basic glass shaft, and
their carbon/nylon blades are substantially lighter than the standard
polypro or nylon ones, but they're also much, much more expensive. Some
people like cranked shafts finding they lead to less wrist problems,
others find they make things worse. Only way to be sure is try yourself.

This isn't to say you can't get a good boat with a bit of reading and a
few tries: one of the newer members of TSKC did just that (he got a
plastic Perception he seems happy with), but I don't see he's better off
than if he'd just used Club boats for a while until he could pin down
what he really wanted.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Charlie wrote:

Anyway, I'm rambling now. What I meant was, while you are still doing
research why not give a good shop a ring and ask what they have in stock.
If they have a few you think that you may be interested in then go down one
Sunday and just sit in them.

I don't know where the OP is, but the Scottish Paddlesports show is in a
couple of weekends and should probably give plenty of opportunity to sit
in a good selection of Shiny Toys.

http://www.scot-canoe.org/festival/index.htm

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

In article outboats.com,
Jayno55 wrote:
I am a few weeks into Kayaking and want to buy my own Kayak. I am not very
interested in white water stuff. I see myself lazing or touring on canals,
steady rivers, lakes & lochs, estauries and calm-ish coastlines. I am 57,
5'8", about 130 lbs and affected by arthritis in all joints. I have maybe
a quarter of the strength of a normally fit person, but I have good
balance and usually do very well on activities that require hand-eye
co-ordination and other skills/techniques. I therefore want a lighter,
comfortable boat, that I can paddle easily at speed or gliding along. I
want to kayak partly FOR fitness. I like smart/classic looking, high tech,
high performance, high quality things that are also still high on
comfort/convenience aspects (think easy cockpit access/egress and good
seat design/adjustability) and manageable for someone as physically
limited as me. I have scoured the Kayak websites and would like advice on
what to go for? For now, I have narrowed my choice down to the P & H Vela
or the Prijon Catalina. I know these are different propositions. That's
the point. Could any of you look at my needs/brief and appraise me of the
respective merits of these two kayaks in meeting them, or would you
suggest something else, and if so why? Thankyou all, in anticipation :-)

I might be slightly biased, but I think the best boat for you is the Cirrus -
a stable, sleek fast tourer (some would call it a stable racer). It's
pedigree and suitability is shown by the fact that it has been used to set a
cross-Channel record, and some spectacular performances on the Devizes to
Westminster Challenge (which includes the notorious Thames Tideway section).

Comfort? Certainly. With EZ-adjust footrest and seat.

Easy access / egress? Certainly, it has a racing cockpit.

Manoeuvrability? Absolutely, it has a rudder.

Weight? 12-13Kg or lighter with vac-bagged construction.


Let me know where you are based and I will try to put you in contact with a
current owner for trials etc.

advert over


Allan Bennett
Not a fan of misinformed choices


--

"Allan Bennett" wrote in message
...
In article
outboats.com,
Jayno55 wrote:
I might be slightly biased, but I think the best boat for you is the
Cirrus -
a stable, sleek fast tourer (some would call it a stable racer). It's
pedigree and suitability is shown by the fact that it has been used to
set a
cross-Channel record, and some spectacular performances on the Devizes
to
Westminster Challenge (which includes the notorious Thames Tideway
section).

Comfort? Certainly. With EZ-adjust footrest and seat.

Easy access / egress? Certainly, it has a racing cockpit.

Manoeuvrability? Absolutely, it has a rudder.

Weight? 12-13Kg or lighter with vac-bagged construction.


Let me know where you are based and I will try to put you in contact
with a
current owner for trials etc.

advert over


Allan Bennett

You? Biased? Never!

Anyway, regarding your comments on the Cirrus:

Seconded. The Cirrus is the best boat I have ever paddled, one that I
don't promptly fall out of.
I stay dry in my Cirrus especially when I fit the spray deck. Falling
out into the canal is not one of the main attractions of paddling.
I think of it as a stable touring Kayak suitable for racing in the lower
divisions.
I have paddled mine mainly on canals, but also venture out on lakes and
slow rivers.
As it happens, I have a new Cirrus on order.
When the manufacturer gets his finger out and delivers it, I may want to
sell my original Cirrus.
I'm in the Midlands if the OP wants to try paddling my Cirrus on the
local canal.

Thinks - I wonder if there is a K2 version of the Cirrus?

David
Not a fan of slow coaches.

Hmmm. Interesting suggestion. Are you guys buying ready made-up Cirrus
kayaks, or kits; how much are they; and where do you get them from in the
UK?

"Jayno55" wrote in message
lkaboutboats.com...
Hmmm. Interesting suggestion. Are you guys buying ready made-up Cirrus
kayaks, or kits; how much are they; and where do you get them from in
the
UK?

Allan can tell you more. He got me my Cirrus from Eclipse who build the
Cirrus, and other racing kayaks, to order. I think some of the high spec
ones are built in Holland. My original Cirrus was a prototype and the
hull was imperfect, so I got it at a reduced price. Because of past
dealings and experiences with Eclipse, which leads me to deem them
trustworthy, I have ordered a new one without asking, and without
worrying, about the price as the new ones have improved seating and
footrest adjusters. I'm guessing prices will start around £600 but don't
hold me to it.

David
Not a fan of being tied down.

Having attracted several responses with my original post I think it is time
that I thanked everyone, so ... Thanks!

All your comments have been well received. Here is a bit of personal
feedback:

I shall certainly be going to "sit in" some kayaks in the coming weeks, as
Peter, and particularly Charlie has urged me to do. I had already done
what they advised re getting a good paddle, before I posted - I bought a
Lendal Kinetic Touring (2 piece, 215 cm, with variable joint) with a
kinked carbon-fibre shaft and nylon blades. It's a beaut.

I know I want a boat suitable for lazy recreational and modest touring use
(ie with storage facilities), but not a big capacity boat that has me
bobbing around on the top of waves when its storage holds are empty, due
to the fact that I weigh so little myself.

I am intrigued by the Cirrus suggestion from Allan and David but I would
prefer to see more images, technical/design info, supplier/pricing data
and users reviews on the net first, and I just can't find any
manaufacturer or retailer websites offering this.

I agree with Peter that the Valley Avocet RM offers a lot for someone with
my brief. In fact, I may eliminate the Vela from my list (and instead
include the Easky or Capella RM) because it is a composite and I think all
the evaluating I am doing here and elsewhere tells me a good plastic boat
would be more sensible than a composite for my first purchase, given some
of the inland settings in which I expect to paddle.

I'm pretty settled on the idea of a boat around 15' - 16' long to optimise
the tracking/maneouvrability issue. And I'm keener on a retractable skeg
model rather than a ruddered boat.

I realise I need to go for as narrow a boat as I can fit into comfortably
(to make the regular paddling angles as easy on my arms and shoulders as
possible).

I'm now mostly preoccupied with the question of pay off between initial
and secondary 'stability'. I don't want a flat bottomed boat of any
description, but I can see that a boat designed for hard-core sea kayaking
could be unnecessarily tippy on say a canal or lake.

I realise some of you might think I'm being too 'theoretical' and need to
get in a damn boat! But I am boating each week on a river or lake while
this thought process of mine is taking place. Plus, I like working things
out as well as I can before buying things.

So, that's where I've got to friends. By all means write more if you want,
as I would be keen to read your views. If not, Thanks as I said for your
contributions up till now.
:-)

Jayno55 wrote:

I agree with Peter that the Valley Avocet RM offers a lot for someone w=
ith
my brief. In fact, I may eliminate the Vela from my list (and instead
include the Easky or Capella RM) because it is a composite and I think =
all
the evaluating I am doing here and elsewhere tells me a good plastic bo=
at
would be more sensible than a composite for my first purchase, given so=
me
of the inland settings in which I expect to paddle.=20

I threw in the Avocet as just another option to show it's rather=20
difficult using paper to narrow things down. Add it to the list to try, =

don't take things off until you try them. But I wouldn't put the=20
Capella on your list, it's a big boat and a bit of a tub unladen (TSKC=20
has one).

Plastic boats are great for rocky landings. OTOH they're difficult to=20
customise much if you want to change things in future (which you might=20
as you don't know what you want yet) and they're also harder to maintain =

and repair. A white water boat getting furry doesn't matter much, a=20
tourer will get slower and harder to paddle.

I realise I need to go for as narrow a boat as I can fit into comfortab=
ly
(to make the regular paddling angles as easy on my arms and shoulders a=
s
possible).

It's not that simple. A broader boat will probably be more stable and=20
until you have more experience keeping it up with your hips you'll have=20
to do more work with braced strokes to keep a narrower, more tippy boat=20
upright. So if the conditions are less than perfect you may end up=20
doing /more/ work in a narrower boat.

I realise some of you might think I'm being too 'theoretical' and need =
to
get in a damn boat!=20

No, you need to get in several damn boats and find out if what you like=20
in theory is the same as you like in practice. For example, the broad=20
vs. narrow issue. Glass boat vs. plastic. etc.

this thought process of mine is taking place. Plus, I like working thin=
gs
out as well as I can before buying things.

So do I. but over the years I've come to learn that what I want on paper =

does not necessarily work quite as well for me in practice. I bought=20
the boat I did because it was a steal and I knew it would do what I=20
wanted, even if it wasn't my perfect boat "on paper". I'm very glad I=20
bought it, because paddling it showed there were things I'd decided I=20
wanted that turned out not to matter, and things I hadn't thought about=20
that did.

Getting out there and paddling different boats is the best way to select =

them.

And don't rule out second hand. My gf bought a nice McNulty sea boat=20
for =A3200 earlier this summer. A bit of gelcoat filler and sanding cure=
d=20
a leak and some cosmetic damage, and this winter we'll glass in an oval=20
hatch. Then she'll have a good glass touring boat for less than half=20
the price of a new plastic one.

Pete.
--=20
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

OK, I surrender Peter!

I promise I'll try every non-"tub"-like kayak I can lay my hands on, get
my bum into, and see each end of in one look - no matter what it's made
out of, whether it's space age new or steam gauge ancient, and regardless
of if it has a windscreen heater and reverse gear or not. I agree to
suppress all temptation to preconceived ideas of what will float, and I'll
even consider renting out my brick built home and living in a dormakayak
for 6 months ... (or maybe I won't) ....

Thanks for your further thoughts and good advice ;-)

In article outboats.com,
Jayno55 wrote:
Having attracted several responses with my original post I think it is time
that I thanked everyone, so ... Thanks!

All your comments have been well received. Here is a bit of personal
feedback:

I shall certainly be going to "sit in" some kayaks in the coming weeks, as
Peter, and particularly Charlie has urged me to do. I had already done
what they advised re getting a good paddle, before I posted - I bought a
Lendal Kinetic Touring (2 piece, 215 cm, with variable joint) with a
kinked carbon-fibre shaft and nylon blades. It's a beaut.

I know I want a boat suitable for lazy recreational and modest touring use
(ie with storage facilities), but not a big capacity boat that has me
bobbing around on the top of waves when its storage holds are empty, due
to the fact that I weigh so little myself.

I am intrigued by the Cirrus suggestion from Allan and David but I would
prefer to see more images, technical/design info, supplier/pricing data
and users reviews on the net first, and I just can't find any
manaufacturer or retailer websites offering this.

I agree with Peter that the Valley Avocet RM offers a lot for someone with
my brief. In fact, I may eliminate the Vela from my list (and instead
include the Easky or Capella RM) because it is a composite and I think all
the evaluating I am doing here and elsewhere tells me a good plastic boat
would be more sensible than a composite for my first purchase, given some
of the inland settings in which I expect to paddle.

I'm pretty settled on the idea of a boat around 15' - 16' long to optimise
the tracking/maneouvrability issue. And I'm keener on a retractable skeg
model rather than a ruddered boat.

I realise I need to go for as narrow a boat as I can fit into comfortably
(to make the regular paddling angles as easy on my arms and shoulders as
possible).

I'm now mostly preoccupied with the question of pay off between initial
and secondary 'stability'. I don't want a flat bottomed boat of any
description, but I can see that a boat designed for hard-core sea kayaking
could be unnecessarily tippy on say a canal or lake.

I realise some of you might think I'm being too 'theoretical' and need to
get in a damn boat! But I am boating each week on a river or lake while
this thought process of mine is taking place. Plus, I like working things
out as well as I can before buying things.

So, that's where I've got to friends. By all means write more if you want,
as I would be keen to read your views. If not, Thanks as I said for your
contributions up till now.
:-)

IMO, the Cirrus fits your original brief perfectly, but your conclusions
above do not agree with your brief...

Polythene is heavy, sluggish and naff. Fittings are C&N and lack comfort
and versatility.

A rudder is good enough for racing and touring boats in all conditions
including huge weir shoots, lakes and seas, but you would opt for a
retractable skeg?

I would advise you to not even try a Cirrus, it's a very practical boat,
considered to be a standard and the boat chosen for eg the London Youth
Games, but won't fit into your pre-conceived conclusions you call
theoretical, I'm afraid.


Allan Bennett
Not a fan of retraction

--

In article , Peter Clinch
wrote:


I realise I need to go for as narrow a boat as I can fit into comfortably
(to make the regular paddling angles as easy on my arms and shoulders as
possible).

It's not that simple.
A broader boat will probably be more stable and until you have more
experience keeping it up with your hips you'll have to do more work with
braced strokes to keep a narrower, more tippy boat upright. So if the
conditions are less than perfect you may end up doing /more/ work in a
narrower boat.

Not sure that I agree with you on this point - good forwards paddling
technique is what supports paddler and boat and, in open-cockpit boats, the
hips are not used for support or boat control. With support in the water
from the blade, the effective boat-width is the same for wide or narrow boats
(within sensible limits, of course - ie those which pertain to the boats
which I know). A brace stoke indicates a failure in paddling technique in
benign conditions at least, and a larger-volume boat will be more affected by
choppy conditions than a narrow one, so can feel more unstable to an
experienced paddler.

Obviously proper paddling techniques don't transfer to closed-cockpit boats
:-)


Allan Bennett
Not a fan of braces

--

Allan Bennett wrote:

Not sure that I agree with you on this point - good forwards paddling
technique is what supports paddler and boat and

and good forward paddling technique is employed 100% of the time in a
racing context, but people out for gentle tours who might want to stop
and look at the wildlife or take an easy snack or sun-cream break will
quite often be pausing. In the case of the sun cream break not even
holding the paddle.

in open-cockpit boats, the
hips are not used for support or boat control. With support in the water
from the blade, the effective boat-width is the same for wide or narrow boats

Ah, but see above. My perspective on how one spends time in a cockpit
on a fairly gentle tour for a novice paddler is probably nearer the OP's
than yours. We're not all experts at forward paddling who apply that
expertise 100% of the time in the boat.

Obviously proper paddling techniques don't transfer to closed-cockpit boats
:-)

It does when one is paddling, but when I'm looking at the sea otters and
puffins, or consulting a chart, or undoing a pocket to get a snack out
then I'll freely admit it isn't up to much!

Pete.
a fan of stopping to enjoy the scenery.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

"Allan Bennett" wrote in message
...

I would advise you to not even try a Cirrus, it's a very practical
boat,
considered to be a standard and the boat chosen for eg the London
Youth
Games, but won't fit into your pre-conceived conclusions you call
theoretical, I'm afraid.


Hmmm, nice rattle throw.

David
not a fan of twisted knickers.

Just for the record, I have now tried a few boats out and have made a
decision, or rather a split decision. I am very persuaded that the new P&H
composite Capella 163 (not on their website yet, but very much in
production) is the boat that will do what I want, and let me grow into it
as a early stage kayaker. But for my 'apprentice' phase, I have bought an
ex-demo P&H Easky because it felt good when I tried it, offers most of the
things I was after, and was available at a price I couldn't refuse. The
Capella will probably come later.

Thanks to all on here who offered me advice, including those who may have
been irritated by my newbie's ignorance. There is a learning in all manner
of reactions.

Safe paddling - Jayno :-)

"Jayno55" wrote in message
lkaboutboats.com...
Thanks to all on here who offered me advice, including those who may
have
been irritated by my newbie's ignorance.

No problem from my POV. You have to learn somehow, hopefully without too
much pain in the process.

There is a learning in all manner of reactions.

Indeed, quite so.

Safe paddling - Jayno :-)

You too.
If you want to try out a Cirrus sometime post a message here.
Email is ignored & deleted unless you are recognised by my filter.

David
Not a fan of ignorami