"Liz" wrote in message
om...
Hello

I'm new to newsgroups (so hopefully haven't made a pig's ear of it!)
and new to kayaking. What I'd like to know is as a 35 year old
beginner, are my chances of becoming a great paddler less now than if
I'd started as a child or does age not enter the equation? I know I'm
not old but I seem to be the eldest novice in my local club, lol.

Also, as a complete "Humbug" I was wondering if any instructors out
there would be willing to give me lessons over the Christmas break. I
live in Southampton, and am yearning to get out of the pool and onto a
river. I'm trying to boycott Xmas this year and can't think of a
better way to spend it : )

TIA

Liz.

Hi Liz yes age does make a difference I started at 36 3 years ago and still
having problems
with thinks like rolling

The club that I go to has a 15 year old female how has been Kayaking for 2
years and last month she rolled
115 time non stop in fact she could of done more but the water was getting
to shallow

Neil



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The club that I go to has a 15 year old female how has been Kayaking for
2
years and last month she rolled
115 time non stop in fact she could of done more but the water was getting
to shallow

Why? was she drinking it?

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Hi Liz yes age does make a difference I started at 36 3 years ago and
still
having problems
with thinks like rolling

You thinks too much.... rolling is feeling not thinking ;-)

I don't think this is totally an age issue... we have people who can roll at
36+ and find it easy, and we have younger people who find it impossible.

Age comes in because people get stiffer, but if you are taught good
technique, you should be able to roll. I have seen a paraplegic lady being
taught to roll... a hipflick free roll. It's interesting to see how she does
it.

Peter

Peter wrote:

Age comes in because people get stiffer, but if you are taught good
technique, you should be able to roll. I have seen a paraplegic lady being
taught to roll... a hipflick free roll. It's interesting to see how she does
it.

A pawlata roll is quite easy to do without a hip-flick. In fact that's
one of the nice things about it: less co-ordination required and you're
using leverage rather than brute power so are less likely to do a
naughty to a shoulder too. Not great if you're in a Big Hurry, but more
likely to work if you're not.

Our club starts folk off on pawlatas and then progresses to screws after
that's fairly bombproof. Must say I'm not getting very far with reverse
screws at the moment: back to that "which way is up? what do I do now?
what am I doing here?" feeling I had first time I was trying pawlatas
unassisted!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

"Peter Clinch" wrote in message
...
Peter wrote:

A pawlata roll is quite easy to do without a hip-flick. In fact that's
one of the nice things about it: less co-ordination required and you're
using leverage rather than brute power so are less likely to do a
naughty to a shoulder too. Not great if you're in a Big Hurry, but more
likely to work if you're not.

Our club starts folk off on pawlatas and then progresses to screws after
that's fairly bombproof. Must say I'm not getting very far with reverse
screws at the moment: back to that "which way is up? what do I do now?
what am I doing here?" feeling I had first time I was trying pawlatas
unassisted!


It is interesting that you teach pawlata first.... I don't anymore for the
reason that people seem to rely on the leverage, and that turns into brute
force with the screw roll. I prefer to teach a non-brute force method of
doing the screw roll, which protects the shoulders etc.

Since I changed to this way of teaching, my success at getting people to
roll has rocketed... the most impressive "victim" went from not started
rolling to rolling in 15 minutes. She of course was an exception, but we
seem to get most people going in a few pool sessions.

Reverse Screw: the thing I did wrong for ages is I was pulling the blade
down in the water, rather than sweeping it out. This gave me a reverse roll,
but quite a weak one. Sweeping it round, and bingo... a much better, safer
roll. I still don't like back deck types of rolls, but they definitely have
their uses.

Peter

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Peter wrote:

It is interesting that you teach pawlata first.... I don't anymore for the
reason that people seem to rely on the leverage, and that turns into brute
force with the screw roll.

Makes sense, as that's what I did... Some people have learned starting
with a float assisted hand roll, which really helps tune the hip flick
first thing. OTOH it can be a bit dispiriting at first as it's harder,
and in my case the last time I tried I put my back out and needed two
visits to the osteopath so I'm not personally that keen on practising that!

OTOH I'm not really clued enough to teach anything else, and will
usually only try to teach when I'm all that's available there and then.
Will try an emphasize a good pawlata with prominent hip flick before
moving onto screws in future though!

Reverse Screw: the thing I did wrong for ages is I was pulling the blade
down in the water, rather than sweeping it out.

Having set up and flipped the boat I just couldn't decide what I was
meant to be doing *at all*. It wasn't doing the wrong thing, just going
"errrrrrrrrr?", resetting for a P and coming up that way instead! Down
rather than Out seems to be a common problem for a lot of people doing
any sweeping roll though, AFAICT from our pool sessions.

roll. I still don't like back deck types of rolls, but they definitely have
their uses.

I was just curious really. Main project now is getting screws on my
"bad side" just as good as the other and at a point where "default roll"
is the best side in any given situation, rather than current right
shoulder forwards side. Also working so that any degree of feather or
different control hands aren't a problem (often paddle unfeathered on
the sea if there's no headwind, if there is I sometimes swap control
side thanks to a variable joint shaft and blades that plug into either
end). Slowly getting there...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:19:49 +0000, Peter Clinch
wrote:

Peter wrote:

It is interesting that you teach pawlata first.... I don't anymore for the
reason that people seem to rely on the leverage, and that turns into brute
force with the screw roll.

Makes sense, as that's what I did... Some people have learned starting
with a float assisted hand roll, which really helps tune the hip flick
first thing. OTOH it can be a bit dispiriting at first as it's harder,
and in my case the last time I tried I put my back out and needed two
visits to the osteopath so I'm not personally that keen on practising that!

OTOH I'm not really clued enough to teach anything else, and will
usually only try to teach when I'm all that's available there and then.
Will try an emphasize a good pawlata with prominent hip flick before
moving onto screws in future though!

Reverse Screw: the thing I did wrong for ages is I was pulling the blade
down in the water, rather than sweeping it out.

Having set up and flipped the boat I just couldn't decide what I was
meant to be doing *at all*. It wasn't doing the wrong thing, just going
"errrrrrrrrr?", resetting for a P and coming up that way instead! Down
rather than Out seems to be a common problem for a lot of people doing
any sweeping roll though, AFAICT from our pool sessions.

roll. I still don't like back deck types of rolls, but they definitely have
their uses.

I was just curious really. Main project now is getting screws on my
"bad side" just as good as the other and at a point where "default roll"
is the best side in any given situation, rather than current right
shoulder forwards side. Also working so that any degree of feather or
different control hands aren't a problem (often paddle unfeathered on
the sea if there's no headwind, if there is I sometimes swap control
side thanks to a variable joint shaft and blades that plug into either
end). Slowly getting there...

Not quite age related but on the subject of teaching rolls...

There we were, four adult Coaches teaching " Star/ 3 Star to roll. By
chance we had an extra non-paddler in the pool. First time in a kayak.
My son, not then a coach and still only 17 taught this lad to roll in
five minutes. He couldn't paddle in a straight line, but boy could he
roll....

Ewan Scott
http://www.claytonwestscouts.org.uk

There we were, four adult Coaches teaching " Star/ 3 Star to roll. By
chance we had an extra non-paddler in the pool. First time in a kayak.
My son, not then a coach and still only 17 taught this lad to roll in
five minutes. He couldn't paddle in a straight line, but boy could he
roll....

Ewan Scott
http://www.claytonwestscouts.org.uk


That relates to my experiences...
The easiest people to teach rolling to are the ones with no preconception of
what should be happening.

The rest.... I try to take their minds off the rolling by shouting something
bizarre as they capsize.... "think chocolate" seems to work quite well...
they seem to roll up thinking what the hell was the coach on about...
result.

P
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Kayaking is great for paraplegics but a word of caution. We had a lass at
the club - game as anything. We weren't at the rolling stage but we went
paddling on the local canal with her in a Kiwi. Had great fun on the weir
- it is safe to shoot at the right levels. We improvised a block and
tackle with safety lines so that she could shoot it four or five times.
Great fun had by all.

The following week she broke her thigh bone when rolling over sunbathing
in her back garden........ Lots of blood lost, ambulances, transfusions
etc. Gave me a pause for thought. They get very osteoporotic because of
not weight bearing on the limbs.

David