On 18-Mar-2005, "BCITORGB" wrote:

I'm also getting the impression that most people don't care too much
whether the cross pieces reflect the curvature of the hull.

I do!

I was
thinking at least a bit of a "V" (keeping in mind that the load should
be carried by the keel, not the sides of the hull -- so a wider "V" as
opposed to a deeper one). Again, is this overkill?

You want the most support you can get. This is especially true with a
plastic hull. You can either cut into a deep crosspiece (like a 2x6)
or make a saddle that bolts to the crosspiece. The latter will be more
flexible in allowing for lots of different configurations.

If you have a skin-on-frame kayak or a canoe, you don't need a saddle
since you can carry it upside down on its gunnels. Not many factory
kayaks have a flat enough deck to carry upside down easily on a flat
crossbar. I know folks that do this, however. If you rest the
kayak on its side (as with J racks or stackers) you only need padding.

Mike

Michael suggests:
===============
You want the most support you can get. This is especially true with a
plastic hull. You can either cut into a deep crosspiece (like a 2x6)
or make a saddle that bolts to the crosspiece. The latter will be more
flexible in allowing for lots of different configurations.
============

See what you think about this: I cut deep into the 2x6 crosspiece
(rectangular cut) and then create a sling using a fairly wide webbing
strap (perhaps 1.5" wide to correspond to the 1.5" cross-section of the
2x6).

I don't know if this qualifies as a "saddle", but it would seem to
conform ideally to the hull curvature and also transfer the mass of the
kayak, via straps, to the crosspiece. The issue here, I guess, is
ensuring that the straps can be securely mounted to the crosspiece
(grommets etc, eh?).

Or am I getting too complicated (and perhaps flimsy) here?

Michael, you have an uncanny ability to "send me back to the drawing
board". Thanks, I appreciate the input.

Cheers,
Wilf
===========

BCITORGB wrote:
Michael suggests:
===============
You want the most support you can get. This is especially true with
a
plastic hull. You can either cut into a deep crosspiece (like a 2x6)
or make a saddle that bolts to the crosspiece. The latter will be
more
flexible in allowing for lots of different configurations.
============

See what you think about this: I cut deep into the 2x6 crosspiece
(rectangular cut) and then create a sling using a fairly wide webbing
strap (perhaps 1.5" wide to correspond to the 1.5" cross-section of
the
2x6).

I don't know if this qualifies as a "saddle", but it would seem to
conform ideally to the hull curvature and also transfer the mass of
the
kayak, via straps, to the crosspiece. The issue here, I guess, is
ensuring that the straps can be securely mounted to the crosspiece
(grommets etc, eh?).

Or am I getting too complicated (and perhaps flimsy) here?

Michael, you have an uncanny ability to "send me back to the drawing
board". Thanks, I appreciate the input.

Cheers,
Wilf
===========

I think Michael is right about fitting a saddle for the hull to fit in
is a good idea. when he spoke of curvature before, fitting the top of
the van, maybe I missed what he was saying. To support the hull with a
saddle spreads out the weight of the kayak from just resting on one
very small area, and can overload that spot causing distortion. You
accomplish a lot with the foam pads. They do make high density foam
blocks that you can use for the hull also.

If the rocker interferes with the roof top, move the cross memgers
closer together. You can get an idea for spacing, just set the kayak on
the ground, and slide some 2x4 blocks under to determine the clearance
issues. Generally I think longer is better, but again Michael is
correct to say that the bow and stern lines are what actually hold the
kayak on top of the van, the rack just provides something for it to
rest on.

================================================== =====================
And Walts recommendation to drive a few miles and then stop and check
it is the best and most important!
================================================== =====================

And don't forget that it is up there. I say a 'yaker pull into an
underground parking garage one time. The low clearance was a big ouch!

One other thing I do, is using a bicycle cable lock, through the rack,
and various holes in the kayak, I lock it on. Serves as a safety if the
ropes come loose, and when you stop for the pizza, some numbskull
doesn't think that he can grab your kayak and make a quick get away.
Really ruins your day if you come out to your van and your pride and
joy, is gone! TnT

Tink suggests:
=============
One other thing I do, is using a bicycle cable lock, through the rack,
and various holes in the kayak,
===============

You have HOLES in your kayak!? I thought the objective was to avoid
holes!

frtzw906

BCITORGB wrote:
Tink suggests:
=============
One other thing I do, is using a bicycle cable lock, through the
rack,
and various holes in the kayak,
===============

You have HOLES in your kayak!? I thought the objective was to avoid
holes!

frtzw906

Well actually, you need one for each of the crew! Even canoes have
great big long holes, amazing they even float!

Now if you look inside these holes, you might find a seat support or
center post that you can thread a long cable around. Otherwise, some
kayaks have fittings or handles on the bow or stern for lifting that
you can put a cable lock in!

Every year there is someone on Mountain Buzz who put their kayaks on
the car night before a trip, to come out in the morning, and they lost
their boats overnight, or at the pizza pl, or motel. That would be
heartbreaking! TnT

On 18 Mar 2005 11:51:54 -0800, "BCITORGB"
wrote:

Michael suggests:
===============
You want the most support you can get. This is especially true with a
plastic hull. You can either cut into a deep crosspiece (like a 2x6)
or make a saddle that bolts to the crosspiece. The latter will be more
flexible in allowing for lots of different configurations.
============

See what you think about this: I cut deep into the 2x6 crosspiece
(rectangular cut) and then create a sling using a fairly wide webbing
strap (perhaps 1.5" wide to correspond to the 1.5" cross-section of the
2x6).

I don't know if this qualifies as a "saddle", but it would seem to
conform ideally to the hull curvature and also transfer the mass of the
kayak, via straps, to the crosspiece. The issue here, I guess, is
ensuring that the straps can be securely mounted to the crosspiece
(grommets etc, eh?).

Or am I getting too complicated (and perhaps flimsy) here?


Maybe too flimsy. If you're using big wood for strength, cutting into
it seems somehow wrong to me. Bolts through it, maybe?

I am not a woodworker or all that great at mechanical things. A whole
shaker of salt might be advisable with my above comments.

Michael, you have an uncanny ability to "send me back to the drawing
board". Thanks, I appreciate the input.

Cheers,
Wilf
===========


Cyli
r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels.
Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli
email: lid (strip the .invalid to email)

Cyli confesses:
==============
Maybe too flimsy. If you're using big wood for strength, cutting into
it seems somehow wrong to me. Bolts through it, maybe?

I am not a woodworker or all that great at mechanical things.
================

I'm not a woodworker, and I positively suck at mechanical things.
Perhaps I'll wait for Michael's learned input on this one.

But keep in mind, the "cut" was to be into the top, mid, section of a
2x6 -- either a "v"-like cut to accommodate the shape of the hull
resting in it, or a rectangular-like cut to accommodate a webbing strap
which would, in theory (my theory) conform even better to the shape of
the hull and negate the need for foam or other cushioning material.

However, my concern is less for compromising the structural integrity
due to the cut into the wood (what do I know?) but more over how to
ensure that the webbing strap can be affixed securely on either side of
the cut. [as i type this, I'm thinking of extending the webbing strap
along the top of the 2x6 and screwing a 2x1 strip over this bit of
webbing strap and into the 2x6].

Like I've said before, this is beginning to take on the semblance of,
at minimum, a porch extension.

Cheers,
Wilf
=============

On 18-Mar-2005, Cyli wrote:

Maybe too flimsy. If you're using big wood for strength, cutting into
it seems somehow wrong to me. Bolts through it, maybe?

If you do it the way I describe, the wood is cut to match the curvature
of the roof and is supported at every point on the roof. Hence, the
wood doesn't need a lot of strength. Cutting into it won't be a big
deal as long as there's about 2" or so of wood left.

Mike

On 18-Mar-2005, "BCITORGB" wrote:

See what you think about this: I cut deep into the 2x6 crosspiece
(rectangular cut) and then create a sling using a fairly wide webbing
strap (perhaps 1.5" wide to correspond to the 1.5" cross-section of the
2x6).

The sling idea is a good one, but I'd consider a combination of cutting
a bit into the top of the 2x6 and also making little towers of wood to
hold the ends of the webbing.

Also, the ideal place to support the kayak is at the bulkheads - just
behind and at the front of the cockpit. The bulkheads provide plenty
of strength and stiffness to keep the hull from deforming.

The issue here, I guess, is
ensuring that the straps can be securely mounted to the crosspiece
(grommets etc, eh?).

If you make a couple of "towers" to hold the straps, then this is easy.
Bolt the towers to the crosspiece (two bolts will do it - sloping the
towers to the outside will allow for more length to distribute load).
The towers could be 2x2 or 2x4 and only need to be tall enough to clear
the hull from anything underneath. Round the tops of the towers and
run the webbing over to the outside. Double (or triple) the webbing
by folding it over and use a hot nail to burn a couple of holes in
it. When you cut the webbing, use a lighter or match to burn the
cut end and melt the webbing so it won't fray.

Screw thru the holes with stainless steel wood screws and use
stainless versions of these things (cup washers):
http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=1&p=40096&cat=3,41306,41316&ap=1
to hold the webbing.

Don't forget to allow for a place to attach the webbing that will
hold the kayak down on the rack. This can be big stainless eye bolts,
for example.

Mike

Michael suggests:
================
If you make a couple of "towers" to hold the straps, then this is easy.
Bolt the towers to the crosspiece (two bolts will do it - sloping the
towers to the outside will allow for more length to distribute load).
The towers could be 2x2 or 2x4 and only need to be tall enough to clear
the hull from anything underneath. Round the tops of the towers and
run the webbing over to the outside. Double (or triple) the webbing
by folding it over and use a hot nail to burn a couple of holes in
it. When you cut the webbing, use a lighter or match to burn the
cut end and melt the webbing so it won't fray.
==============

As always, much obliged!

Cheers,
Wilf