BCITORGB wrote:
Tink says:
=============
I am not sure what you mean by large diameter. We bend conduit all
the
time with bending tools up to 1".
=================

Right, but even to bend 1" pipe, surely you use a "bending device"
(my
family would disown me for that... both father and brother are
electricians and I spent a few summers as an electrician's helper,
but
am a complete nerd about practical matters... so, I don't recall what
that fulcrum thingy is called). Anyway, I'm guessing that the larger
diameter pipes cannot be bent, readily, without mechanical
assistance.
Hence my thought that, if a human can't readily bend it, a 100 pound
kayak is not likely to bend it either (even at 50 pounds times, let's
say, 30 inches). But, as I say, I'm not the electrician, I'm the
geek.

Tink says:
================
My name is a double or triple entendo
(sp)! Given enough time, as a practical engineer, I can usually
cobble
something together! Though it is the sort of stuff you might see on
the
Red/Green Show.
===========

And you likely thought ALL Canadians were like Red Green, eh? GRIN

Cheers,
Wilf

And all US are like Archie!

I would suggest that you take a piece of pipe, extend it out the
desired distance from edge of workbench, attach stationary end, and
then start loading the extended end with weights to see when it bends.

I know that if there was a piece of conduit sticking out from the side
of a building, 10 stories up, I would not trust it to step out on it
with even a portion of my weight. Now obviously this is not the same,
but you could still get hurt if the extension collapsed and you caught
the full weight of the boat.

Your 1x4 would probably not be strong enough, but again you can test
it.


TnT

KMAN wrote:
in article ,
Tinkerntom
at wrote on 3/16/05 1:18 AM:


BCITORGB wrote:
Tink says:
=============
I am not sure what you mean by large diameter. We bend conduit all
the
time with bending tools up to 1".
=================

Right, but even to bend 1" pipe, surely you use a "bending device"
(my
family would disown me for that... both father and brother are
electricians and I spent a few summers as an electrician's helper,
but
am a complete nerd about practical matters... so, I don't recall
what
that fulcrum thingy is called). Anyway, I'm guessing that the
larger
diameter pipes cannot be bent, readily, without mechanical
assistance.
Hence my thought that, if a human can't readily bend it, a 100
pound
kayak is not likely to bend it either (even at 50 pounds times,
let's
say, 30 inches). But, as I say, I'm not the electrician, I'm the
geek.

Tink says:
================
My name is a double or triple entendo
(sp)! Given enough time, as a practical engineer, I can usually
cobble
something together! Though it is the sort of stuff you might see
on
the
Red/Green Show.
===========

And you likely thought ALL Canadians were like Red Green, eh?
GRIN

Cheers,
Wilf

And all US are like Archie!

More like Moose!

We have a few of them around here, but I understand that there are a
lot more up there. What are they like? TnT

"Tinkerntom" wrote in message
oups.com...

No Spam wrote:
"Tinkerntom" wrote in message
oups.com...
Snip

Ken, the only thing I would question, is that where the dowel comes
out
of the pipe, would represent a sheer line. All the load on the
extended
dowel would be concentrated at the sheer line as a breaking force.
You
would not be able to take advantage really of the flex of the dowel
inside the tube, to dissipate the energy as a flexing force, and it
would tend to break at that sheer line.

You are right on though about hearing the dowel break.

Another function of the safety line that I recommended, is that if
the
extension collapses, the boat would not fall clear to the ground.
Considering the car paint though, it might be equally important to
use
some cushions in strategic spots in case the boat fell. You could
just
hang a long noodle on the side of the car to take the bang.

or like Cyli indicated, you just don't worry about the paint!
TnT


You are correct about the shear at the point of entry but I think a
hardwood
dowel of this size will take this force without complaint. My uncle
used to
hang an old wood extension ladder on dowel pegs and it took 2 people
to lift
that thing down. The flex in the exposed dowel would take the force
of the
jolt of rough handling of the boat though. I did some google
searching but
cannot find the shear strength of a dowel but I would guess that a 1
inch
hardwood dowel would take at least 500 pounds of pure shear force
before it
would break. I have a 1 1/2 inch dowel here and I just stood on the
end of
it with the other end wedged under my work bench -- yep lifted the
bench
right up - the dowel flexed a little but easily handled me 275 lbs
out about
a foot from the support.

Ken

Ken, Wilf, is talking about extending the dowel out 28", see what
loading the dowel breaks under now. This will prevent Wilf from falling
off his workbench, and you seemed more inclined to do this sort of
stuff! I mean testing, not falling off your bench! TnT


Unfortunately I don't have enough dowel to anchor it and have 28 inches left
over or I would gladly give it a try - I've ended up on my backside in the
name of learning before. I think it would break if I were to put my full
weight at 28 inches out, but that is not what we are talking about when we
are loading a boat. You will have much less than half my weight and it will
be more distributed. At any rate I think the schedule 40 pipe on the car is
the ticket because it will not rust and it should hold just fine. The only
thing to do now is find something that fits inside it that will take the
weight. Get some conduit and some dowel and anything else that is lying
around and see what happens. Good luck.

Ken

"Tinkerntom" wrote in message
oups.com...

KMAN wrote:
in article ,
Tinkerntom
at wrote on 3/16/05 1:18 AM:


BCITORGB wrote:
Tink says:
=============
I am not sure what you mean by large diameter. We bend conduit all
the
time with bending tools up to 1".
=================

Right, but even to bend 1" pipe, surely you use a "bending device"
(my
family would disown me for that... both father and brother are
electricians and I spent a few summers as an electrician's helper,
but
am a complete nerd about practical matters... so, I don't recall
what
that fulcrum thingy is called). Anyway, I'm guessing that the
larger
diameter pipes cannot be bent, readily, without mechanical
assistance.
Hence my thought that, if a human can't readily bend it, a 100
pound
kayak is not likely to bend it either (even at 50 pounds times,
let's
say, 30 inches). But, as I say, I'm not the electrician, I'm the
geek.

Tink says:
================
My name is a double or triple entendo
(sp)! Given enough time, as a practical engineer, I can usually
cobble
something together! Though it is the sort of stuff you might see
on
the
Red/Green Show.
===========

And you likely thought ALL Canadians were like Red Green, eh?
GRIN

Cheers,
Wilf

And all US are like Archie!

More like Moose!

We have a few of them around here, but I understand that there are a
lot more up there. What are they like? TnT

I'm talking Archie...Moose...and in your case, Jughead. Go back to your
Bunker.

Again, thanks to everyone for all your input.

While in the shower this morning, I had a flash of brilliance as my
father's words came back to me: "avoid moving parts whenever possible
and shun automation!". While this little project hardly concerns
automation, and not much in the way of moving parts, the general gist
of his admonition was KISS.

So, along those lines, I started thinking simple (and crude). Here's
what I'm going to try. Take a 8'-2X4 and place it across the front of
the van roof, by the front roofrack crossbar. Now lash it into place
along the crossbar. Now I should have about 3.5' of 2X4 jutting out
past the side of the van. While I know I'm an idiot in terms of things
practical and mechanical, but I can't see a 2X4 not holding up this
kayak. What do you guys think?

Then, when I'm done, the 2X4 stays up on the rack next to the kayak.

Are there any flaws in this crude version of an extension bar?

Cheers,
Wilf
==================

Tink, thanks for the 2X4 tip and the U-bolts. I read this after I
posted my crude 2X4 solution. Your U-boly idea would likely be better
(more rigid) than my idea of lashing the 2X4. I'll hunt around the
hardware store for the ingredients for this stew.

Thanks,
Wilf

On 16 Mar 2005 09:07:17 -0800, "BCITORGB"
wrote:

So, along those lines, I started thinking simple (and crude). Here's
what I'm going to try. Take a 8'-2X4 and place it across the front of
the van roof, by the front roofrack crossbar. Now lash it into place
along the crossbar. Now I should have about 3.5' of 2X4 jutting out
past the side of the van. While I know I'm an idiot in terms of things
practical and mechanical, but I can't see a 2X4 not holding up this
kayak. What do you guys think?

Then, when I'm done, the 2X4 stays up on the rack next to the kayak.

Are there any flaws in this crude version of an extension bar?

Depends on the state, but generally it is not legal to drive with
something on the roof which extends beyond the footprint of the car.

You would need to slide the 2x4 back onto the roof when loaded.

Note that this also means that it is not legal to put 78" bars on the
top of your compact car.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
--
At the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

Gary says:
===============
Depends on the state, but generally it is not legal to drive with
something on the roof which extends beyond the footprint of the car.

You would need to slide the 2x4 back onto the roof when loaded.
===================

ROTFL! No, here in Canada we get to have all sorts of things jutting
out past the car's footprint. It might have something to do with our
British heritage: jousting and all, don't you know.... GRIN....

Yes, of course the 2X4 with be fastened length-wise.

Cheers,
Wilf
===============

Back to my original "dead weight" question.

I tried paddling solo with 24 liters of water as dead weight in the
forward cockpit. The conditions were ideal for this experiment, and I
can report complete success. The rudder on the Amaruk is AWESOME.
Further, I did not feel that the bow was riding too high.

Trip Report:
C:\My Web Sites\pedalpaddleinbc\k050314buntzen.htm

Cheers, and thanks for the help
Wilf

Trip Report:
http://ca.geocities.com/pedalpaddlei...314buntzen.htm

Sorry for the earlier reference to my harddrive...

Wilf