Gary S. Idontwantspam@net wrote in
:

On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 22:31:35 GMT, Richard Ferguson
wrote:

Expand a little on this bivy bag. The bivy bags that I am familar with
are usually made of goretex, and go over one's sleeping bag, or body if
you do not have a sleeping bag with you. What you describes sounds
very different. Is it just a large orange plastic bag?

Yes, it's basically just a large coast guard orange plastic bag.

richard

John Fereira wrote:
snip A
bivy bag may also be useful. It's a large coast guard orange bag that
you can climb into if you become separated from your kayak. It can
be partially inflated and used for floatation, and used as a
signaling device. It can be folded up and put into a pocket on your
PFD.

You are describing a bivy bag as used in mountaineering.

I believe John is referring to some type designed for paddlers.

They're not really designed for paddling. They're also called "survival
bags"

A link to a pic would be useful.

Here's one (sorry for the wrapping)

http://www.planetfear.com/product_de...s_id=579&p_id=
1819

Richard Ferguson wrote in
:

Expand a little on this bivy bag. The bivy bags that I am familar with
are usually made of goretex, and go over one's sleeping bag, or body if
you do not have a sleeping bag with you. What you describes sounds
very different. Is it just a large orange plastic bag?

I forgot to mention in the previous post. The primary advantage of the
orange survival bag to the kind of bivy bag you're talking about is that the
former is small enough that you can put it in a pocket in your PFD. If
you've got a fancy gortex bivy bag it would likely be packed in with your
sleeping bag which won't help if you capsize and become separated from your
boat. When considering safety gear think of what you would need if you
became separated from your boat and carry it in your PFD.

Bib wrote:
Kind of beyond what you were asking about but my half dollar
suggestions.

Consider the "Safety Blaster Horn". Lung powered, 120dbs, 1 mile
range, $10. Do not try it out in enclosed space. I did. Could not
hear for 10 mins. Wife and I both carry one on PFD. All plastic, no
rust. URL below takes you Fogdog which sells them. Immersion in salt
water does not effect it at all - drain for 2 seconds and blow. Used
by us any number of times both on land and sea. Great for hiking if
separated by terrain.
http://www.fogdog.com/product/index....oductId=841305

I agree. This horn makes whistles seem anemic by comparison. I carry one
in my PFD.

On 12/20/04 1054, in article , "Michael Daly"
wrote:

On 20-Dec-2004, "Patrick, Whit" wrote:

Signal Mirror = AOL CDs... They work really well and are very free!

The myth is that CDs work well. They are not that reflective.
Better to get a real signal mirror.

http://www.seakayakermag.com/2001/01Oct/mirror2.htm

Mike

Actually, the CDs do work quite well. I have tested them in various
situations and found them an adequate emergency substitute for a real signal
mirror. They can also be hung from branches on shore to attract the
attention of SAR personnel.

You are right, though. There is no real substitute for a real mirror. Carry
both.

Whit - CWO4(Bosn) USCG retired

The link did not take me to the product, only to the homepage, but
looking around a little on the planetfear.com site, I found something
called a Survival Bag, available in a couple of sizes. It was orange,
but not much info on the website. So is this really just a big orange
plastic bag? How small is it folded up? I found something similar at
www.campingsurvival.com, for around $3 US, weighs around 9 oz (about
0.25 kg).

I carried something similar for years, the only time I used it was when
my partner's bivvy bag leaked in rain on the side of Mt. Robson, at a
desperate bivy site, and he was astounded that I had a plastic bivvy bag
in addition to my Gortex bag, to keep him dry. I guess I am a belt and
suspenders guy.

I understand the concept of having something attached to your PFD,
although I also understand that you can hang so much on your PFD that it
becomes a problem in terms of weight and/or bulk.

Historically I have made fun of tiny survival kits, usually mocking them
by picking up a medium size backpack full of warm clothes, food, and
water, and saying something like "Survival Kit my A**. This is my
survival kit!"

I am not saying that it is not a good thing to have, just that I am not
sure that I want to attach more stuff to my PFD. I generally travel
with other boats, especially in non-trivial water, so you don't expect
to lose more than one boat on a trip.

Richard



John Fereira wrote:
Gary S. Idontwantspam@net wrote in
:


On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 22:31:35 GMT, Richard Ferguson
wrote:


Expand a little on this bivy bag. The bivy bags that I am familar with
are usually made of goretex, and go over one's sleeping bag, or body if
you do not have a sleeping bag with you. What you describes sounds
very different. Is it just a large orange plastic bag?


Yes, it's basically just a large coast guard orange plastic bag.

richard

John Fereira wrote:
snip A

bivy bag may also be useful. It's a large coast guard orange bag that
you can climb into if you become separated from your kayak. It can
be partially inflated and used for floatation, and used as a
signaling device. It can be folded up and put into a pocket on your
PFD.


You are describing a bivy bag as used in mountaineering.

I believe John is referring to some type designed for paddlers.


They're not really designed for paddling. They're also called "survival
bags"

A link to a pic would be useful.


Here's one (sorry for the wrapping)

http://www.planetfear.com/product_de...s_id=579&p_id=
1819

I saw this type of "Safety Blaster Horn" blaster in Boaters World and its
alot bigger than I would want on my PFD. Is there a smaller one like 3"- 4"
instead of 8". The one I saw remains me of a bong.

Thanks.

Steve
Wilmington, NC

Steven Murch wrote:
I saw this type of "Safety Blaster Horn" blaster in Boaters World and its
alot bigger than I would want on my PFD. Is there a smaller one like 3"- 4"
instead of 8". The one I saw remains me of a bong.

Yeah, there are two sizes and the smaller one is hard to find. I think
the one at the FogDog link is the smaller size. According to SeaSense,
K-Mart sells the small ones, but I've never seen them in the local
stores and they're not on their web site either. Dick's Sporting goods
carries them, too.

For bracing, look for the
February issue of Seakayaker for an article called "Bracing Drills".
How do
I know about the article if it hasn't come out yet? I wrote it.

Yes I've read your recent article on the high brace save and have a
couple of questions? One, why hasn't this manuever been suggested
before? Is it because most instructors are reluctant to recommend
something which missused by a novice might lead to shoulder injury?
Two, would you recommend starting off with a paddle float to at least
learn the correct arm position? You could lay over very gently with the
float in the water and let the outboard arm rise up until the paddle
was in the best postion for bracing before hip snapping up.
Gene Cosloy

If your consistently wearing a wetsuit, why hava pee-zipper.

By having a your keeping your pee inside the suit, it helps retain the heat.

"stayinalive" wrote in news:1103835108.037263.289320
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:

For bracing, look for the
February issue of Seakayaker for an article called "Bracing Drills".
How do
I know about the article if it hasn't come out yet? I wrote it.

Yes I've read your recent article on the high brace save and have a
couple of questions? One, why hasn't this manuever been suggested
before? Is it because most instructors are reluctant to recommend
something which missused by a novice might lead to shoulder injury?

I've seen someone dislocate a shoulder when grabbing the side of a pool to
practice hip snaps. The exercises themselves do not make paddlers
inherently prone to shoulder injury. I've taken a number of classes that
covered a high brace and every time the instructor has warned of the
potential dangers if it is done incorrectly. The article does stress the
importance of keeping your hands close to the body and below the head.
Chris was pretty firm about getting that verbage into the article. I had
taken a bunch of photos which demonstrated the exercises, one of which
should a friend of mine in a marginally vulnerable position. Chris didn't
want the photos in the mag. A coupld of years ago Nigel Foster did an
article on a reentry roll which had a photo with a paddler in a similarly
unsafe position. There were quite a few editorial comments on that. I
actually heard about the queen annes salute through some friends that did
some BCU training and assessment. The assessor was having the student
perform the exercise to demonstrate that the bigh brace component of the 3
star assessment is suppose to be a recovery stroke and not just for
stability.

Two, would you recommend starting off with a paddle float to at least
learn the correct arm position? You could lay over very gently with the
float in the water and let the outboard arm rise up until the paddle
was in the best postion for bracing before hip snapping up.

That's not a bad way to learn the position. Doug Alderson's rolling article
in the previos issue demonstrates using a paddle float in this manner. You
may have also noticed that I wrote an editorial comment in the current issue
on that article, specifically cautioning the use of a paddle float as
demonstrated and the pressure that it can put on your shoulder. Sliding over
slowly with a paddle float with a paddle float is okay but I wouldn't
recommend getting into a queen annes salute position with a paddle float and
falling over. Instead, set the paddle parallel to the boat on the opposite
side that you're going to capsize. After you've hit the water bring the
paddlefloat to a perpendicular position and brace up.

Bracing is rarely taught in novice classes. One of the reasons is that when
novices first start trying to brace they end up capsizing a lot more. In
one class of six students we had four of them in the water at the same time
when they first started trying a low brace. In the novice classes I teach
we don't get into any of the strokes that involve tilting the boat although
if a student seems to be doing very well we'll introduce edging the boat a
bit to help turn. In the intermediate class we start with hip snapping off
a partners boat and then have them tip over, let go of the partners boat,
re-grab then hip snap back up. Once they're able to capsize and perform an
eskimo rescue off the bow of a partners boat we'll start working on bracing.
Because they often capsize while learning to brace it's nice if they're able
to do an eskimo rescue rather than we exit and have to reenter. The
exercises that I suggested in the article are not really for a novice that
doesn't know how to brace at all.

Another method for learning the arm position requires a helper. Have a
friend paddle up parallel to your boat and grasp your cockpit rim. They can
hold your boat while you get into position to keep you from going all the
way over. They can even assist in getting your boat back upright by pulling
on the cockpit rim as you do a brace. This method also works really well
for learning how to perform a deep sculling brace.