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Bush Bailout
Another three trillion down the drain.
Does the phrase "Miserable Failure" ring a bell? OTOH AIG had another nice party and someone is getting a lot of taxpayer money .... well, debt to the taxpayer, anyway. THEY got the money. No accountability either AFAIK. Just free money ... How did this get started again? -- Cliff |
Bush Bailout
On Nov 13, 6:07*am, Cliff wrote:
* Another three trillion down the drain. * Does the phrase "Miserable Failure" ring a bell? * OTOH AIG had another nice party and someone is getting a lot of taxpayer money .... *well, debt to the taxpayer, anyway. THEY got the money. * No accountability either AFAIK. Just free money ... *How did this get started again? -- Cliff The dems are pilfering the money. Nothing new there. |
Bush Bailout
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Bush Bailout
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 06:07:34 -0500, Cliff wrote:
Another three trillion down the drain. Does the phrase "Miserable Failure" ring a bell? OTOH AIG had another nice party and someone is getting a lot of taxpayer money .... well, debt to the taxpayer, anyway. THEY got the money. No accountability either AFAIK. Just free money ... How did this get started again? I believe it's intentional. That's why the plutocracy put up a stupid, incompetent puppet in the presidency. Making every bad decision possible, like he always has, got us into a contrived war, and allowed deregulation to trash the economy. It's akin to highway robbery. We are being fleeced by the robber-barons until we have nothing left and they have total power. Hal |
Hater circlejerk bores rec.boaters...
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Bush Bailout
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 07:20:53 -0700, hal aided th' terraists with the
following claims : On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 06:07:34 -0500, Cliff wrote: Another three trillion down the drain. Does the phrase "Miserable Failure" ring a bell? OTOH AIG had another nice party and someone is getting a lot of taxpayer money .... well, debt to the taxpayer, anyway. THEY got the money. No accountability either AFAIK. Just free money ... How did this get started again? I believe it's intentional. That's why the plutocracy put up a stupid, incompetent puppet in the presidency. Making every bad decision possible, like he always has, got us into a contrived war, and allowed deregulation to trash the economy. It's akin to highway robbery. We are being fleeced by the robber-barons until we have nothing left and they have total power. St.Reagan proposed the idea for ultimate gubamint deregulation when he said "starve the beast" in reference to funding gubamint. With no money, theres lots less gubamint. FYI -- "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/index.htm |
Bush Bailout
"Cliff" wrote in message ... Another three trillion down the drain. Does the phrase "Miserable Failure" ring a bell? OTOH AIG had another nice party and someone is getting a lot of taxpayer money .... well, debt to the taxpayer, anyway. THEY got the money. No accountability either AFAIK. Just free money ... How did this get started again? -- Cliff Well CONGRESS and Bush decided something had to be done. Paulson proposed the bailout, they wrote it up and sent it to CONGRESS. The HOUSE votes and rejects it. Let the games begin! Pelosi in her brillant leadership role blames the Republicans(surprize!) but 96 Dems vote NO the first time as well. If as LEADER of the HOUSE Dems she got 20 or so of those 96 to vote YES, it would have PASSED first time! But no she blames the Republicans......great leader that she is. A few days later, what was sent to CONGRESS as a THREE PAGE Bill becomes a FOUR HUNDRED PAGE Bill loaded with PORK. And now it PASSES! Sent to Bush and he signs it as he said he would. And that is how this got started! Happy about it...nope. Are they going to end up doing more...yup. Is this the only solution, well it seems to be now, as everyone with a lobbyist is sreaming they need money. Will it get better, once the smoke clears it will, could take years and as with 9/11 things will be different, but it will not the same as it was before. Welcome to the new Europe, land of the dole and socialisim. Once even more people start sucking on the government money "tit", it was the end. BAHO |
Bush Bailout
"Bay Area Holdout" wrote in message ... "Cliff" wrote in message ... Another three trillion down the drain. Does the phrase "Miserable Failure" ring a bell? OTOH AIG had another nice party and someone is getting a lot of taxpayer money .... well, debt to the taxpayer, anyway. THEY got the money. No accountability either AFAIK. Just free money ... How did this get started again? -- Cliff Well CONGRESS and Bush decided something had to be done. Paulson proposed the bailout, they wrote it up and sent it to CONGRESS. The HOUSE votes and rejects it. Let the games begin! Pelosi in her brillant leadership role blames the Republicans(surprize!) but 96 Dems vote NO the first time as well. If as LEADER of the HOUSE Dems she got 20 or so of those 96 to vote YES, it would have PASSED first time! But no she blames the Republicans......great leader that she is. A few days later, what was sent to CONGRESS as a THREE PAGE Bill becomes a FOUR HUNDRED PAGE Bill loaded with PORK. And now it PASSES! Sent to Bush and he signs it as he said he would. And that is how this got started! Nice fairy tale but that's what it is. JC |
Bush Bailout
John R. Carroll wrote:
"Bay Area Holdout" wrote in message ... "Cliff" wrote in message ... Another three trillion down the drain. Does the phrase "Miserable Failure" ring a bell? OTOH AIG had another nice party and someone is getting a lot of taxpayer money .... well, debt to the taxpayer, anyway. THEY got the money. No accountability either AFAIK. Just free money ... How did this get started again? -- Cliff Well CONGRESS and Bush decided something had to be done. Paulson proposed the bailout, they wrote it up and sent it to CONGRESS. The HOUSE votes and rejects it. Let the games begin! Pelosi in her brillant leadership role blames the Republicans(surprize!) but 96 Dems vote NO the first time as well. If as LEADER of the HOUSE Dems she got 20 or so of those 96 to vote YES, it would have PASSED first time! But no she blames the Republicans......great leader that she is. A few days later, what was sent to CONGRESS as a THREE PAGE Bill becomes a FOUR HUNDRED PAGE Bill loaded with PORK. And now it PASSES! Sent to Bush and he signs it as he said he would. And that is how this got started! Nice fairy tale but that's what it is. JC Now that the facts have been given and the only response is its a fairy tale despite the fact that the information has been published in the media for the last two month and can not be disproved, assassination of the poster will commence. If you are a liberal and confronted with facts that are contrary to what you believe the messenger will be killed. |
Bush Bailout
"Keith nuttle" wrote in message ... John R. Carroll wrote: "Bay Area Holdout" wrote in message ... "Cliff" wrote in message ... Another three trillion down the drain. Does the phrase "Miserable Failure" ring a bell? OTOH AIG had another nice party and someone is getting a lot of taxpayer money .... well, debt to the taxpayer, anyway. THEY got the money. No accountability either AFAIK. Just free money ... How did this get started again? -- Cliff Well CONGRESS and Bush decided something had to be done. Paulson proposed the bailout, they wrote it up and sent it to CONGRESS. The HOUSE votes and rejects it. Let the games begin! Pelosi in her brillant leadership role blames the Republicans(surprize!) but 96 Dems vote NO the first time as well. If as LEADER of the HOUSE Dems she got 20 or so of those 96 to vote YES, it would have PASSED first time! But no she blames the Republicans......great leader that she is. A few days later, what was sent to CONGRESS as a THREE PAGE Bill becomes a FOUR HUNDRED PAGE Bill loaded with PORK. And now it PASSES! Sent to Bush and he signs it as he said he would. And that is how this got started! Nice fairy tale but that's what it is. JC Now that the facts have been given and the only response is its a fairy tale despite the fact that the information has been published in the media for the last two month and can not be disproved, assassination of the poster will commence. No, no "facts" have been given, only misleading factiods that misrepresent the truth. What's been "given" is an accusation that the Democrats voted against the bill, when in fact they voted in favor of it by a margin of 45 votes. The ones who sandbagged it were the Republicans, who voted against it by a margin of 68 votes: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll674.xml And that was on a proposal from a Republican administration! What was that you were saying about "leadership"? The bill, which House Republicans said was inadequate, was picked up by the Senate as a medium for enfolding four distinct bills, which shifted much of the bailout from banking institutions to individuals and small businesses (that's what's being called "pork"). This, as you may have noticed, is what the Administration itself has been shifting to in later versions of their plan. _The Economist_, which came out today, illustrates this with a picture of Paulson pulling multiple rabbits out of his hat. g The Senate took that approach to expand the bill because they're constrained by the origination clause of the Constitution from originating revenue bills in this area. So the bill eventually passed by Congress bears little relationship to the original. They just used it as a subterfuge, an opportunity to skirt around Article I, Section 7 of the Constitution. Senate Republicans passed this version; House Republicans still voted against it, but lost the vote; and the President signed this combined bill. If you are a liberal and confronted with facts that are contrary to what you believe the messenger will be killed. John was too generous with "Bay Area Holdout." I'd say the "facts" the Holdout presented are the product of either an inadequate mind or of an intentionally misleading one. -- Ed Huntress |
Bush Bailout
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:09:22 -0800, "Bay Area Holdout"
wrote: "Cliff" wrote in message .. . Another three trillion down the drain. Does the phrase "Miserable Failure" ring a bell? OTOH AIG had another nice party and someone is getting a lot of taxpayer money .... well, debt to the taxpayer, anyway. THEY got the money. No accountability either AFAIK. Just free money ... How did this get started again? -- Cliff Well CONGRESS and Bush decided something had to be done. Paulson proposed the bailout, they wrote it up and sent it to CONGRESS. The HOUSE votes and rejects it. Let the games begin! Pelosi in her brillant leadership role blames the Republicans(surprize!) but 96 Dems vote NO the first time as well. If as LEADER of the HOUSE Dems she got 20 or so of those 96 to vote YES, it would have PASSED first time! But no she blames the Republicans......great leader that she is. A few days later, what was sent to CONGRESS as a THREE PAGE Bill becomes a FOUR HUNDRED PAGE Bill loaded with PORK. And now it PASSES! Sent to Bush and he signs it as he said he would. And that is how this got started! Happy about it...nope. Are they going to end up doing more...yup. Is this the only solution, well it seems to be now, as everyone with a lobbyist is sreaming they need money. Will it get better, once the smoke clears it will, could take years and as with 9/11 things will be different, but it will not the same as it was before. Welcome to the new Europe, land of the dole and socialisim. Once even more people start sucking on the government money "tit", it was the end. BAHO ------------ That 750 billion is small change. The total cost to prevent [or at least delay] market clearing of dodgy (worthless) assets [and the resulting collapse of many of the major banks, brokerages, insurance companies, hedge funds and venture capital -private equity funds] is now estimated to be AT LEAST 5 trillion dollars. To put this in perspective the total annual production of all goods and services in the United States [GDP] is estimated at slightly more than 13 trillion dollars. 5/13 = 38% of GDP IN TWO MONTHS WITH NO END IN SIGHT, AND NO ACCOUNTABILITY. for complete article click on http://www.forbes.com/home/2008/11/1...12bailout.html Note that despite the huge sums of money involved, only a few tiny crumbs have fallen off the table to the citizens below in terms of foreclosure abatements, etc. while their unemployment rate skyrockets. Unka' George [George McDuffee] ------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end? Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625). |
Bush Bailout
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:27:16 -0800, "John R. Carroll"
wrote: Nice fairy tale but that's what it is. JC --------- When do we get to the part where "they lived happily ever after?" Unka' George [George McDuffee] ------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end? Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625). |
Bush Bailout
F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:27:16 -0800, "John R. Carroll" wrote: Nice fairy tale but that's what it is. JC --------- When do we get to the part where "they lived happily ever after?" That's next semester George and it's in the text for THAT course. What we are viewing now is the final chapter of Bushenomics I. -- Dick |
Bush Bailout
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Keith nuttle" wrote in message ... John R. Carroll wrote: "Bay Area Holdout" wrote in message ... "Cliff" wrote in message ... Another three trillion down the drain. Does the phrase "Miserable Failure" ring a bell? OTOH AIG had another nice party and someone is getting a lot of taxpayer money .... well, debt to the taxpayer, anyway. THEY got the money. No accountability either AFAIK. Just free money ... How did this get started again? -- Cliff Well CONGRESS and Bush decided something had to be done. Paulson proposed the bailout, they wrote it up and sent it to CONGRESS. The HOUSE votes and rejects it. Let the games begin! Pelosi in her brillant leadership role blames the Republicans(surprize!) but 96 Dems vote NO the first time as well. If as LEADER of the HOUSE Dems she got 20 or so of those 96 to vote YES, it would have PASSED first time! But no she blames the Republicans......great leader that she is. A few days later, what was sent to CONGRESS as a THREE PAGE Bill becomes a FOUR HUNDRED PAGE Bill loaded with PORK. And now it PASSES! Sent to Bush and he signs it as he said he would. And that is how this got started! Nice fairy tale but that's what it is. JC Now that the facts have been given and the only response is its a fairy tale despite the fact that the information has been published in the media for the last two month and can not be disproved, assassination of the poster will commence. No, no "facts" have been given, only misleading factiods that misrepresent the truth. What's been "given" is an accusation that the Democrats voted against the bill, when in fact they voted in favor of it by a margin of 45 votes. The ones who sandbagged it were the Republicans, who voted against it by a margin of 68 votes: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll674.xml And that was on a proposal from a Republican administration! What was that you were saying about "leadership"? The bill, which House Republicans said was inadequate, was picked up by the Senate as a medium for enfolding four distinct bills, which shifted much of the bailout from banking institutions to individuals and small businesses (that's what's being called "pork"). This, as you may have noticed, is what the Administration itself has been shifting to in later versions of their plan. _The Economist_, which came out today, illustrates this with a picture of Paulson pulling multiple rabbits out of his hat. g The Senate took that approach to expand the bill because they're constrained by the origination clause of the Constitution from originating revenue bills in this area. So the bill eventually passed by Congress bears little relationship to the original. They just used it as a subterfuge, an opportunity to skirt around Article I, Section 7 of the Constitution. Senate Republicans passed this version; House Republicans still voted against it, but lost the vote; and the President signed this combined bill. If you are a liberal and confronted with facts that are contrary to what you believe the messenger will be killed. John was too generous with "Bay Area Holdout." I'd say the "facts" the Holdout presented are the product of either an inadequate mind or of an intentionally misleading one. -- Ed Huntress What ever the spin you put on the facts, in the time when this country need leadership in the house of representatives, polosi complete failed the test. Leadership is the act of leading based on the facts at hand not pursuing personal goals. |
Bush Bailout
"Dick 'Tater" wrote in message ... F. George McDuffee wrote: On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:27:16 -0800, "John R. Carroll" wrote: Nice fairy tale but that's what it is. JC --------- When do we get to the part where "they lived happily ever after?" That's next semester George and it's in the text for THAT course. What we are viewing now is the final chapter of Bushenomics I. -- Dick Are you sure it is not the next step in Democrat economics. They passed the spending bill. |
Bush Bailout
"Keith nuttle" wrote in message ... Ed Huntress wrote: "Keith nuttle" wrote in message ... John R. Carroll wrote: "Bay Area Holdout" wrote in message ... "Cliff" wrote in message ... Another three trillion down the drain. Does the phrase "Miserable Failure" ring a bell? OTOH AIG had another nice party and someone is getting a lot of taxpayer money .... well, debt to the taxpayer, anyway. THEY got the money. No accountability either AFAIK. Just free money ... How did this get started again? -- Cliff Well CONGRESS and Bush decided something had to be done. Paulson proposed the bailout, they wrote it up and sent it to CONGRESS. The HOUSE votes and rejects it. Let the games begin! Pelosi in her brillant leadership role blames the Republicans(surprize!) but 96 Dems vote NO the first time as well. If as LEADER of the HOUSE Dems she got 20 or so of those 96 to vote YES, it would have PASSED first time! But no she blames the Republicans......great leader that she is. A few days later, what was sent to CONGRESS as a THREE PAGE Bill becomes a FOUR HUNDRED PAGE Bill loaded with PORK. And now it PASSES! Sent to Bush and he signs it as he said he would. And that is how this got started! Nice fairy tale but that's what it is. JC Now that the facts have been given and the only response is its a fairy tale despite the fact that the information has been published in the media for the last two month and can not be disproved, assassination of the poster will commence. No, no "facts" have been given, only misleading factiods that misrepresent the truth. What's been "given" is an accusation that the Democrats voted against the bill, when in fact they voted in favor of it by a margin of 45 votes. The ones who sandbagged it were the Republicans, who voted against it by a margin of 68 votes: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll674.xml And that was on a proposal from a Republican administration! What was that you were saying about "leadership"? The bill, which House Republicans said was inadequate, was picked up by the Senate as a medium for enfolding four distinct bills, which shifted much of the bailout from banking institutions to individuals and small businesses (that's what's being called "pork"). This, as you may have noticed, is what the Administration itself has been shifting to in later versions of their plan. _The Economist_, which came out today, illustrates this with a picture of Paulson pulling multiple rabbits out of his hat. g The Senate took that approach to expand the bill because they're constrained by the origination clause of the Constitution from originating revenue bills in this area. So the bill eventually passed by Congress bears little relationship to the original. They just used it as a subterfuge, an opportunity to skirt around Article I, Section 7 of the Constitution. Senate Republicans passed this version; House Republicans still voted against it, but lost the vote; and the President signed this combined bill. If you are a liberal and confronted with facts that are contrary to what you believe the messenger will be killed. John was too generous with "Bay Area Holdout." I'd say the "facts" the Holdout presented are the product of either an inadequate mind or of an intentionally misleading one. -- Ed Huntress What ever the spin you put on the facts... "SPIN"? Those ARE the facts. If you weren't too lazy to check it out for yourself, rather than sitting on your heels and blowing smoke, you'd know the facts before making accusations. ...in the time when this country need leadership in the house of representatives, polosi complete failed the test. So, you're saying that you *expect* the Republicans to do something irresponsible, like voting the bill down by 68 votes, that runs counter to the interests of the country, and that the Democrats should correct the Republicans' irresponsibility and selfish interest by voting a party line to support a bill proposed by a REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATION? House and Senate leaders don't whip their parties for a debatable bill. In fact, even the administration now says that the original bill was not the right answer to the question. Leadership is the act of leading based on the facts at hand not pursuing personal goals. If you believe that voting for the bill was the right thing to do, even though Paulson now says it wasn't the right way to deal with the problem, then tell that to the Republican leadership. They're the ones who voted against it, not the Democrats. -- Ed Huntress |
Bush Bailout
In article ,
"Bay Area Holdout" wrote: Well CONGRESS and Bush decided something had to be done. Paulson proposed the bailout, they wrote it up and sent it to CONGRESS. The HOUSE votes and rejects it. Let the games begin! Pelosi in her brillant leadership role blames the Republicans(surprize!) but 96 Dems vote NO the first time as well. If as LEADER of the HOUSE Dems she got 20 or so of those 96 to vote YES, it would have PASSED first time! But no she blames the Republicans......great leader that she is. why are republicans in congress so leary of voting with shrub? arf meow arf - cats and dogs living together - who ya goin call its the end of the world as you know it - filler text goes here this is how the world ends - not with a whimper but with a bang this is how the world ends - not with a whimper but with a bang |
Bush Bailout
In article ,
"Calif Bill" wrote: Are you sure it is not the next step in Democrat economics. They passed the spending bill. okay so thats why republicans in congress are so leary of voting witth shrub because this way if it all falls apart then they can blame the entire mess on democrats since this started before 2007 republicans have already blamed democrats for what happened before that because as a minority party they didnt block republican legislation arf meow arf - cats and dogs living together - who ya goin call its the end of the world as you know it - filler text goes here this is how the world ends - not with a whimper but with a bang this is how the world ends - not with a whimper but with a bang |
Bush Bailout
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Bush Bailout
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 04:17:36 -0800, rand mair fheal wrote:
In article , wrote: On Nov 13, 6:07*am, Cliff wrote: * Another three trillion down the drain. * Does the phrase "Miserable Failure" ring a bell? * OTOH AIG had another nice party and someone is getting a lot of taxpayer money .... *well, debt to the taxpayer, anyway. THEY got the money. * No accountability either AFAIK. Just free money ... *How did this get started again? -- Cliff The dems are pilfering the money. Nothing new there. its all obamas fault Poor little Monica's again. She gave Palin a LOT of handbags !!! -- Cliff |
Bush Bailout
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:09:22 -0800, "Bay Area Holdout"
wrote: A few days later, what was sent to CONGRESS as a THREE PAGE Bill becomes a FOUR HUNDRED PAGE Bill loaded with PORK. And now it PASSES! The repubs had to have the pork. -- Cliff |
Bush Bailout
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:35:02 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote: The bill, which House Republicans said was inadequate, But it ws fine with them after they added all that pork !! OTOH Much of the "bailout" thus far (~ 2 trilion dollars) was not even in that bill. Follow the money. -- Cliff |
Bush Bailout
Ed?
Knock it off. Arguing with kooks is not a reasonable discussion If it has alt.kooks in the cross posting list, how about just leaving it alone. You are not going to convince them, or educate them. and it's getting to the point that you just might be joining them... For what it's worth. Respects, Richard Lamb |
Bush Bailout
F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:27:16 -0800, "John R. Carroll" wrote: Nice fairy tale but that's what it is. JC --------- When do we get to the part where "they lived happily ever after?" Unka' George [George McDuffee] Geroge, All due respects, but you too! Richard lamb |
Bush Bailout
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:28:07 -0800, rand mair fheal wrote:
In article , "Calif Bill" wrote: Are you sure it is not the next step in Democrat economics. They passed the spending bill. okay so thats why republicans in congress are so leary of voting witth shrub because this way if it all falls apart then they can blame the entire mess on democrats since this started before 2007 republicans have already blamed democrats for what happened before that because as a minority party they didnt block republican legislation Today's Republican party should be ashamed of the **** they've supported and done over the last decade. Worse is that instead of admitting their ****ups they try to shift the blame and continue on the same road to disaster repeating the same mistakes that brought us this economic catastrophe. Abraham Lincoln is spinning in his grave. -- Regards, Curly ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Now it's time for War Crime Trials at the Hague for Bush/Cheney ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ .................................................. ............... Posted via TITANnews - Uncensored Newsgroups Access at http://www.TitanNews.com -=Every Newsgroup - Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=- |
Bush Bailout
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:49:16 -0500, Cliff wrote:
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:35:02 -0500, "Ed Huntress" wrote: The bill, which House Republicans said was inadequate, But it ws fine with them after they added all that pork !! OTOH Much of the "bailout" thus far (~ 2 trilion dollars) was not even in that bill. Follow the money. How? Seriously, how does one do that? Despite promises of transparency the Bush administration is refusing to reveal the recipients of that $2,000,000,000,000.00 ++ of public money. That is intolerable. It's time to dust off Madame Guillotine! -- Regards, Curly ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Now it's time for War Crime Trials at the Hague for Bush/Cheney ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ .................................................. ............... Posted via TITANnews - Uncensored Newsgroups Access at http://www.TitanNews.com -=Every Newsgroup - Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=- |
Bush Bailout
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:43:20 -0500, Cliff wrote:
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 04:06:58 -0800 (PST), wrote: On Nov 13, 6:07*am, Cliff wrote: * Another three trillion down the drain. * Does the phrase "Miserable Failure" ring a bell? * OTOH AIG had another nice party and someone is getting a lot of taxpayer money .... *well, debt to the taxpayer, anyway. THEY got the money. * No accountability either AFAIK. Just free money ... *How did this get started again? -- Cliff The dems are pilfering the money. Nothing new there. They are not running things yet. Bushco is. So you lied. Again. Why are you surprised? After what, years of examples why would you possibly expect anything other than more lies? You're smarter than that, Cliff... Don't expect pigs to sing or horses to fly. The neocons have nothing left but lies since its become so painfully obvious that their programs are a disaster of biblical proportions. If they speak or post, expect lies. For the first six years it was all Clintons fault. Now it's the Democrats fault morphing into Obama's fault even before he takes office. Bush never existed, the neocons and Republicans are turning him into an unperson. Why are you surprised? HTH -- Regards, Curly ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Now it's time for War Crime Trials at the Hague for Bush/Cheney ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ .................................................. ............... Posted via TITANnews - Uncensored Newsgroups Access at http://www.TitanNews.com -=Every Newsgroup - Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=- |
Bush Bailout
"cavelamb himself" wrote in message m... Ed? Knock it off. Arguing with kooks is not a reasonable discussion If it has alt.kooks in the cross posting list, how about just leaving it alone. You are not going to convince them, or educate them. and it's getting to the point that you just might be joining them... For what it's worth. Respects, Richard Lamb You're a hard man, Richard. d8-) However, you're right, this is getting ridiculous. My lifelong campaign against bull****, which was manageable in the days of print journalism, is now an impossible dream. I've had enough of it. -- Ed Huntress |
Bush Bailout
"Cliff" wrote in message ... On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 04:06:58 -0800 (PST), wrote: On Nov 13, 6:07 am, Cliff wrote: Another three trillion down the drain. Does the phrase "Miserable Failure" ring a bell? OTOH AIG had another nice party and someone is getting a lot of taxpayer money .... well, debt to the taxpayer, anyway. THEY got the money. No accountability either AFAIK. Just free money ... How did this get started again? -- Cliff The dems are pilfering the money. Nothing new there. They are not running things yet. Bushco is. So you lied. Again. HTH -- Cliff You are definately confused as to how the Federal Government runs. The Congress is the only group who can pass a spending bill, the only ones who can say we spend this money. The Executive Branch can approve or veto the bill with their Check and Balance part of government. But it is only Congress who can first say lets spend money and tell the rest of government to spend money and how much they can spend. And the Democrats have been in control of the checkbook for nearly 2 years. Bush and the Republicans sux. But so does the Democrats and Pelosi, expecially Pelosi, and Reid. |
Bush Bailout
You are definately confused as to how the Federal Government runs. The
Congress is the only group who can pass a spending bill, the only ones who can say we spend this money. The Executive Branch can approve or veto the bill with their Check and Balance part of government. But it is only Congress who can first say lets spend money and tell the rest of government to spend money and how much they can spend. And the Democrats have been in so congress spends the money okay arf meow arf - cats and dogs living together - who ya goin call its the end of the world as you know it - filler text goes here this is how the world ends - not with a whimper but with a bang this is how the world ends - not with a whimper but with a bang |
Bush Bailout
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 22:42:41 -0800, Calif Bill wrote:
"Cliff" wrote in message ... On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 04:06:58 -0800 (PST), wrote: On Nov 13, 6:07 am, Cliff wrote: Another three trillion down the drain. Does the phrase "Miserable Failure" ring a bell? OTOH AIG had another nice party and someone is getting a lot of taxpayer money .... well, debt to the taxpayer, anyway. THEY got the money. No accountability either AFAIK. Just free money ... How did this get started again? -- Cliff The dems are pilfering the money. Nothing new there. They are not running things yet. Bushco is. So you lied. Again. HTH -- Cliff You are definately confused as to how the Federal Government runs. Then explain the $2 trillion dollars that the Fed has already given out wihtout oversight and refuses to reveal recipients. The Congress is the only group who can pass a spending bill, the only ones who can say we spend this money. The Executive Branch can approve or veto the bill with their Check and Balance part of government. But it is only Congress who can first say lets spend money and tell the rest of government to spend money and how much they can spend. And the Democrats have been in control of the checkbook for nearly 2 years. Bush and the Republicans sux. But so does the Democrats and Pelosi, expecially Pelosi, and Reid. You cannot gloss over the 6 years of a Republican congress so easily and blame the next class for their bending over and dropping their trousers for Bush/Cheney. -- Regards, Curly ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ RIP -- Robert Lee Burnside 11/23/26 - 9/1/05 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ .................................................. ............... Posted via TITANnews - Uncensored Newsgroups Access at http://www.TitanNews.com -=Every Newsgroup - Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=- |
Bush Bailout
"Curly Surmudgeon" wrote in message . .. On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 22:42:41 -0800, Calif Bill wrote: "Cliff" wrote in message ... On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 04:06:58 -0800 (PST), wrote: On Nov 13, 6:07 am, Cliff wrote: Another three trillion down the drain. Does the phrase "Miserable Failure" ring a bell? OTOH AIG had another nice party and someone is getting a lot of taxpayer money .... well, debt to the taxpayer, anyway. THEY got the money. No accountability either AFAIK. Just free money ... How did this get started again? -- Cliff The dems are pilfering the money. Nothing new there. They are not running things yet. Bushco is. So you lied. Again. HTH -- Cliff You are definately confused as to how the Federal Government runs. Then explain the $2 trillion dollars that the Fed has already given out wihtout oversight and refuses to reveal recipients. The Congress is the only group who can pass a spending bill, the only ones who can say we spend this money. The Executive Branch can approve or veto the bill with their Check and Balance part of government. But it is only Congress who can first say lets spend money and tell the rest of government to spend money and how much they can spend. And the Democrats have been in control of the checkbook for nearly 2 years. Bush and the Republicans sux. But so does the Democrats and Pelosi, expecially Pelosi, and Reid. You cannot gloss over the 6 years of a Republican congress so easily and blame the next class for their bending over and dropping their trousers for Bush/Cheney. -- Regards, Curly ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ RIP -- Robert Lee Burnside 11/23/26 - 9/1/05 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Did not say the Republicans were angels. I stated the facts of life re our government and who actually gets to vote to spend money. And yes, if the spending bill passes, the money HAS TO BE SPENT. A Democrat Congress got that ruling years ago. Used to be the Executive branch controlled a lot of the pork overspending, by just not spending the money. But Congress did not like fiscal responsibility. http://www.auburn.edu/~johnspm/gloss/impoundment is a decent explanation. We need an Executive Branch to take the ruling to the Supremes. The problem for at least the last 8 years, is a President who did not veto overspending. And the $5 trillion, not $2 trillion is not money spent, so no appropriation bill was required. It is what we committed to cover and keeps growing. We are screwed. |
Bush Bailout
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 22:42:41 -0800, "Calif Bill"
wrote: "Cliff" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 04:06:58 -0800 (PST), wrote: On Nov 13, 6:07 am, Cliff wrote: Another three trillion down the drain. Does the phrase "Miserable Failure" ring a bell? OTOH AIG had another nice party and someone is getting a lot of taxpayer money .... well, debt to the taxpayer, anyway. THEY got the money. No accountability either AFAIK. Just free money ... How did this get started again? -- Cliff The dems are pilfering the money. Nothing new there. They are not running things yet. Bushco is. So you lied. Again. HTH -- Cliff You are definately confused as to how the Federal Government runs. The Congress is the only group who can pass a spending bill, the only ones who can say we spend this money. The Executive Branch can approve or veto the bill with their Check and Balance part of government. But it is only Congress who can first say lets spend money and tell the rest of government to spend money and how much they can spend. And the Democrats have been in control of the checkbook for nearly 2 years. Bush and the Republicans sux. But so does the Democrats and Pelosi, expecially Pelosi, and Reid. ------------- From a theoretical standpoint you are correct, and I wish that this was the way it worked in the real world. In several cases, for example the Federal Reserve Bank, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, and the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation and several others, *PRIVATE* organizations, ==backed with the full faith and credit of the US [i.e. the taxpayers],== are burning through money at a truly amazing rate, with nomimal to no oversight. In one instance the FRB is refusing to say which banks [and most major American financial organizations are now banks or are becoming "banks" such as American Express, GE Capital, Merrill Lynch, Goldman, and CIT] have borrowed, how much they have borrowed, and ==what securities or other collateral they have pledged.== {can you say "toxic securities?" Can your say "pig-in-a-polk"} The insurance companies are not far behind. Several majors have just applied to become S&Ls, thus qualifying for the FDIC "tit". ---------- Insurers Mull S&L Status; Request Could Come Today (Update1) By Andrew Frye Nov. 14 (Bloomberg) -- Several U.S. insurers have asked regulators about applying for status as savings and loan institutions, a step that could give them access to Treasury funding. snip ----------- for complete article see http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...BaY&refer=home In less than 3 months, over 5 trillion dollars has been "injected" into the market. The exact amount cannot be determined. for complete article click on http://www.forbes.com/home/2008/11/1...12bailout.html To put this in perspective the total annual production of all goods and services in the United States [GDP] is estimated at slightly more than 13 trillion dollars. 5/13 = 38% of GDP IN SLIGHTLY OVER TWO MONTHS WITH NO END IN SIGHT, AND NO ACCOUNTABILITY. There are several other mechanisms that bypass Congressional control and oversight of governmental spending, but currently this is the major money leak. Unka' George [George McDuffee] ------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end? Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625). |
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Bush Bailout
Curly Surmudgeon wrote:
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 22:42:41 -0800, Calif Bill wrote: "Cliff" wrote in message ... On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 04:06:58 -0800 (PST), wrote: On Nov 13, 6:07 am, Cliff wrote: Another three trillion down the drain. Does the phrase "Miserable Failure" ring a bell? OTOH AIG had another nice party and someone is getting a lot of taxpayer money .... well, debt to the taxpayer, anyway. THEY got the money. No accountability either AFAIK. Just free money ... How did this get started again? -- Cliff The dems are pilfering the money. Nothing new there. They are not running things yet. Bushco is. So you lied. Again. HTH -- Cliff You are definately confused as to how the Federal Government runs. Then explain the $2 trillion dollars that the Fed has already given out wihtout oversight and refuses to reveal recipients. Congress gave Paulson carte blanc control of expenditures, NO explanation necessary. Furthermore this contract extends to amounts of cash to be printed: "The Secretary's authority to purchase mortgage-related assets under this Act shall be limited to $700,000,000,000 outstanding *at any one time*. Read it. Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 LEGISLATIVE TREASURY AUTHORITY TO PURCHASE MORTGAGE-RELATED ASSETS Section 1. Short Title. This Act may be cited as ___________________. Sec. 2. Purchases of Mortgage-Related Assets. (a) Authority to Purchase.-The Secretary is authorized to purchase, and to make and fund commitments to purchase, on such terms and conditions as determined by the Secretary, mortgage-related assets from any financial institution having its headquarters in the United States. (b) Necessary Actions.-The Secretary is authorized to take such actions as the Secretary deems necessary to carry out the authorities in this Act, including, without limitation: (1) appointing such employees as may be required to carry out the authorities in this Act and defining their duties; (2) entering into contracts, including contracts for services authorized by section 3109 of title 5, United States Code, without regard to any other provision of law regarding public contracts; (3) designating financial institutions as financial agents of the Government, and they shall perform all such reasonable duties related to this Act as financial agents of the Government as may be required of them; (4) establishing vehicles that are authorized, subject to supervision by the Secretary, to purchase mortgage-related assets and issue obligations; and (5) issuing such regulations and other guidance as may be necessary or appropriate to define terms or carry out the authorities of this Act. Sec. 3. Considerations. In exercising the authorities granted in this Act, the Secretary shall take into consideration means for- (1) providing stability or preventing disruption to the financial markets or banking system; and (2) protecting the taxpayer. Sec. 4. Reports to Congress. Within three months of the first exercise of the authority granted in section 2(a), and semiannually thereafter, the Secretary shall report to the Committees on the Budget, Financial Services, and Ways and Means of the House of Representatives and the Committees on the Budget, Finance, and Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs of the Senate with respect to the authorities exercised under this Act and the considerations required by section 3. Sec. 5. Rights; Management; Sale of Mortgage-Related Assets. (a) Exercise of Rights.-The Secretary may, at any time, exercise any rights received in connection with mortgage-related assets purchased under this Act. (b) Management of Mortgage-Related Assets.-The Secretary shall have authority to manage mortgage-related assets purchased under this Act, including revenues and portfolio risks therefrom. (c) Sale of Mortgage-Related Assets.-The Secretary may, at any time, upon terms and conditions and at prices determined by the Secretary, sell, or enter into securities loans, repurchase transactions or other financial transactions in regard to, any mortgage-related asset purchased under this Act. (d) Application of Sunset to Mortgage-Related Assets.-The authority of the Secretary to hold any mortgage-related asset purchased under this Act before the termination date in section 9, or to purchase or fund the purchase of a mortgage-related asset under a commitment entered into before the termination date in section 9, is not subject to the provisions of section 9. Sec. 6. Maximum Amount of Authorized Purchases. The Secretarys authority to purchase mortgage-related assets under this Act shall be limited to $700,000,000,000 outstanding at any one time Sec. 7. Funding. For the purpose of the authorities granted in this Act, and for the costs of administering those authorities, the Secretary may use the proceeds of the sale of any securities issued under chapter 31 of title 31, United States Code, and the purposes for which securities may be issued under chapter 31 of title 31, United States Code, are extended to include actions authorized by this Act, including the payment of administrative expenses. Any funds expended for actions authorized by this Act, including the payment of administrative expenses, shall be deemed appropriated at the time of such expenditure. Sec. 8. Review. Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency. Sec. 9. Termination of Authority. The authorities under this Act, with the exception of authorities granted in sections 2(b)(5), 5 and 7, shall terminate two years from the date of enactment of this Act. Sec. 10. Increase in Statutory Limit on the Public Debt. Subsection (b) of section 3101 of title 31, United States Code, is amended by striking out the dollar limitation contained in such subsection and inserting in lieu thereof $11,315,000,000,000. Sec. 11. Credit Reform. The costs of purchases of mortgage-related assets made under section 2(a) of this Act shall be determined as provided under the Federal Credit Reform Act of 1990, as applicable. Sec. 12. Definitions. For purposes of this section, the following definitions shall apply: (1) Mortgage-Related Assets.-The term mortgage-related assets means residential or commercial mortgages and any securities, obligations, or other instruments that are based on or related to such mortgages, that in each case was originated or issued on or before September 17, 2008. (2) Secretary.-The term Secretary means the Secretary of the Treasury. (3) United States.-The term United States means the States, territories, and possessions of the United States and the District of Columbia. The Congress is the only group who can pass a spending bill, the only ones who can say we spend this money. The Executive Branch can approve or veto the bill with their Check and Balance part of government. But it is only Congress who can first say lets spend money and tell the rest of government to spend money and how much they can spend. And the Democrats have been in control of the checkbook for nearly 2 years. Bush and the Republicans sux. But so does the Democrats and Pelosi, expecially Pelosi, and Reid. You cannot gloss over the 6 years of a Republican congress so easily and blame the next class for their bending over and dropping their trousers for Bush/Cheney. ----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
Bush Bailout
F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 22:42:41 -0800, "Calif Bill" wrote: snipped You are definately confused as to how the Federal Government runs. The Congress is the only group who can pass a spending bill, the only ones who can say we spend this money. The Executive Branch can approve or veto the bill with their Check and Balance part of government. But it is only Congress who can first say lets spend money and tell the rest of government to spend money and how much they can spend. And the Democrats have been in control of the checkbook for nearly 2 years. Bush and the Republicans sux. But so does the Democrats and Pelosi, expecially Pelosi, and Reid. ------------- From a theoretical standpoint you are correct, and I wish that this was the way it worked in the real world. It's not theory, it's the law. In several cases, for example the Federal Reserve Bank, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, and the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation and several others, *PRIVATE* organizations, ==backed with the full faith and credit of the US [i.e. the taxpayers],== are burning through money at a truly amazing rate, with nomimal to no oversight. In one instance the FRB is refusing to say which banks [and most major American financial organizations are now banks or are becoming "banks" such as American Express, GE Capital, Merrill Lynch, Goldman, and CIT] have borrowed, how much they have borrowed, and ==what securities or other collateral they have pledged.== {can you say "toxic securities?" Can your say "pig-in-a-polk"} The insurance companies are not far behind. Several majors have just applied to become S&Ls, thus qualifying for the FDIC "tit". We have a Congress which has abdicated it's obligations and responsibilities. We have an illegitimate government. ---------- Insurers Mull S&L Status; Request Could Come Today (Update1) By Andrew Frye Nov. 14 (Bloomberg) -- Several U.S. insurers have asked regulators about applying for status as savings and loan institutions, a step that could give them access to Treasury funding. snip ----------- for complete article see http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...BaY&refer=home In less than 3 months, over 5 trillion dollars has been "injected" into the market. The exact amount cannot be determined. for complete article click on http://www.forbes.com/home/2008/11/1...12bailout.html To put this in perspective the total annual production of all goods and services in the United States [GDP] is estimated at slightly more than 13 trillion dollars. 5/13 = 38% of GDP IN SLIGHTLY OVER TWO MONTHS WITH NO END IN SIGHT, AND NO ACCOUNTABILITY. There are several other mechanisms that bypass Congressional control and oversight of governmental spending, but currently this is the major money leak. Unka' George [George McDuffee] ------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end? Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625). ----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
Bush Bailout
"strabo" wrote in message ... F. George McDuffee wrote: On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 22:42:41 -0800, "Calif Bill" wrote: snipped You are definately confused as to how the Federal Government runs. The Congress is the only group who can pass a spending bill, the only ones who can say we spend this money. The Executive Branch can approve or veto the bill with their Check and Balance part of government. But it is only Congress who can first say lets spend money and tell the rest of government to spend money and how much they can spend. And the Democrats have been in control of the checkbook for nearly 2 years. Bush and the Republicans sux. But so does the Democrats and Pelosi, expecially Pelosi, and Reid. ------------- From a theoretical standpoint you are correct, and I wish that this was the way it worked in the real world. It's not theory, it's the law. So, reconcile that with the actual federal budget process, and all of the "supplemental" funding bills for the war in Iraq. Tell us who initiates them. -- Ed Huntress |
Bush Bailout
distro pruned to alt.machines.cnc, rec.crafts.metalworking
On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 16:41:39 -0500, strabo wrote: We have a Congress which has abdicated it's obligations and responsibilities. Indeed, we do. We have an illegitimate government. Its the only one we got, and the only one we are likely to get. --------------------- Item two follows from item one. Congress represents the people, and what the people want is a "reinflation" of the real estate, stock/bond and credit bubbles, [people in hell want ice water too] not a systematic evaluation of the current solution, investigation of how we got here, determination of the people/institutions accountable, and long-term solutions to make sure we don't have this occur in another generation or two. The original post observed that the palliative measures to overcome the fiscal crisis taken to date have largely proven ineffective. This appears to be correct, but the amount indicated was low by about a factor of 2 [or more]. This also appears to posit that it was "all W's fault," when in fact this took at least a generation to fully develop. In their favor, the Federal Reserve Chairman and the SecTres do appear to have read some history and are not repeating the actions that brought the country to its knees in 1929, such as restricting credit/raising interest rates, import/trade restrictions, and attempting to "liquidate" the excesses of the market, such as the housing inventory, at fire sale prices. Unfortunately, they [and Congress] appear to be unable [or unwilling] to recognize that this is *NOT* in general a liquidity or credit problem, but rather a solvency problem, in that huge sectors of the domestic economy [e.g. automotive] are "flat broke," as is a large fraction of the population, with the result that one of the major SYPMTOMS is lack of liquidity/credit. Indeed, many of our major corporations and unfortunate citizens are *WORSE* than "flat broke," because they have accumulated debt of all types far beyond their ability to ever repay. THUS NO MATTER HOW MUCH MONEY IS INJECTED INTO THE ECONOMY, IT CANNOT CURE THE PROBLEM, OR EVEN MAKE MUCH OF AN [IF ANY] IMPACT ON THE SYMPTOM. This very serious problem is further compounded by the fact than many of the most accountable organizations are bankrupt in many more ways than just fiscal, specifically they are bankrupt ethically, they are bankrupt innovatively, and they are bankrupt intellectually. Everyone and everything but their own actions and decisions are blamed for the fiscal problems, from the new FASB "mark to market" accounting rules, to the union contracts they were "forced to sign" back in 1965. Still *THEIR* good times roll on, with lavish corporate "retreats," private jets, "performance bonuses," and "golden parachutes," even as their employees and stockholders take it in the shorts. Unka' George [George McDuffee] ------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end? Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625). |
Bush Bailout
On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 14:41:18 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote: snip To put this in perspective the total annual production of all goods and services in the United States [GDP] is estimated at slightly more than 13 trillion dollars. 5/13 = 38% of GDP IN SLIGHTLY OVER TWO MONTHS WITH NO END IN SIGHT, AND NO ACCOUNTABILITY. snip ----------- Not directly part of the US problem, but the Brits are more efficient in these matters, and have managed to produce some preliminary data.... Just the *EUROPEAN* operations of Lehman Bros. has more than 1 TRILLION$US to account for, with 500 Billion$US in debt. N.B.: Lehman Bros. is only one small part of the total global fiscal problem. Not only is there not enough money in the entire world to settle up, there are not enough lawyers and accountants to process the claims.... ---------- Lehman administrators' task will dwarf Enron, creditors told • European arm has more than $500bn of debt • Collapsed bank's creditors expect less than 10% * Simon Bowers * guardian.co.uk, Saturday November 15 2008 00.01 GMT * The Guardian, Saturday November 15 2008 Administrators grappling with the European arm of the failed investment bank Lehman Brothers have told creditors their task is "10 times as big and as complicated" as the unwinding of Enron. Speaking after the first creditors' meeting, a team from PricewaterhouseCoopers said they had identified more than ==$1tn (£670bn) in assets and liabilities that need to be accounted for.== {emphasis added} snip --------------- for complete article click on http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...ers-us-economy Where were the responsible adults while all this was happening, and where did all that money go? Unka' George [George McDuffee] ------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end? Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625). |
Bush Bailout
On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 16:37:47 -0500, strabo wrote:
Curly Surmudgeon wrote: On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 22:42:41 -0800, Calif Bill wrote: "Cliff" wrote in message ... On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 04:06:58 -0800 (PST), wrote: On Nov 13, 6:07 am, Cliff wrote: Another three trillion down the drain. Does the phrase "Miserable Failure" ring a bell? OTOH AIG had another nice party and someone is getting a lot of taxpayer money .... well, debt to the taxpayer, anyway. THEY got the money. No accountability either AFAIK. Just free money ... How did this get started again? -- Cliff The dems are pilfering the money. Nothing new there. They are not running things yet. Bushco is. So you lied. Again. HTH -- Cliff You are definately confused as to how the Federal Government runs. Then explain the $2 trillion dollars that the Fed has already given out wihtout oversight and refuses to reveal recipients. Congress gave Paulson carte blanc control of expenditures, NO explanation necessary. Furthermore this contract extends to amounts of cash to be printed: "The Secretary's authority to purchase mortgage-related assets under this Act shall be limited to $700,000,000,000 outstanding *at any one time*. Read it. Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 LEGISLATIVE TREASURY AUTHORITY TO PURCHASE MORTGAGE-RELATED ASSETS Section 1. Short Title. This Act may be cited as ___________________. Sec. 2. Purchases of Mortgage-Related Assets. (a) Authority to Purchase.-The Secretary is authorized to purchase, and to make and fund commitments to purchase, on such terms and conditions as determined by the Secretary, mortgage-related assets from any financial institution having its headquarters in the United States. (b) Necessary Actions.-The Secretary is authorized to take such actions as the Secretary deems necessary to carry out the authorities in this Act, including, without limitation: (1) appointing such employees as may be required to carry out the authorities in this Act and defining their duties; (2) entering into contracts, including contracts for services authorized by section 3109 of title 5, United States Code, without regard to any other provision of law regarding public contracts; (3) designating financial institutions as financial agents of the Government, and they shall perform all such reasonable duties related to this Act as financial agents of the Government as may be required of them; (4) establishing vehicles that are authorized, subject to supervision by the Secretary, to purchase mortgage-related assets and issue obligations; and (5) issuing such regulations and other guidance as may be necessary or appropriate to define terms or carry out the authorities of this Act. Sec. 3. Considerations. In exercising the authorities granted in this Act, the Secretary shall take into consideration means for- (1) providing stability or preventing disruption to the financial markets or banking system; and (2) protecting the taxpayer. Sec. 4. Reports to Congress. Within three months of the first exercise of the authority granted in section 2(a), and semiannually thereafter, the Secretary shall report to the Committees on the Budget, Financial Services, and Ways and Means of the House of Representatives and the Committees on the Budget, Finance, and Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs of the Senate with respect to the authorities exercised under this Act and the considerations required by section 3. Sec. 5. Rights; Management; Sale of Mortgage-Related Assets. (a) Exercise of Rights.-The Secretary may, at any time, exercise any rights received in connection with mortgage-related assets purchased under this Act. (b) Management of Mortgage-Related Assets.-The Secretary shall have authority to manage mortgage-related assets purchased under this Act, including revenues and portfolio risks therefrom. (c) Sale of Mortgage-Related Assets.-The Secretary may, at any time, upon terms and conditions and at prices determined by the Secretary, sell, or enter into securities loans, repurchase transactions or other financial transactions in regard to, any mortgage-related asset purchased under this Act. (d) Application of Sunset to Mortgage-Related Assets.-The authority of the Secretary to hold any mortgage-related asset purchased under this Act before the termination date in section 9, or to purchase or fund the purchase of a mortgage-related asset under a commitment entered into before the termination date in section 9, is not subject to the provisions of section 9. Sec. 6. Maximum Amount of Authorized Purchases. The Secretarys authority to purchase mortgage-related assets under this Act shall be limited to $700,000,000,000 outstanding at any one time Sec. 7. Funding. For the purpose of the authorities granted in this Act, and for the costs of administering those authorities, the Secretary may use the proceeds of the sale of any securities issued under chapter 31 of title 31, United States Code, and the purposes for which securities may be issued under chapter 31 of title 31, United States Code, are extended to include actions authorized by this Act, including the payment of administrative expenses. Any funds expended for actions authorized by this Act, including the payment of administrative expenses, shall be deemed appropriated at the time of such expenditure. Sec. 8. Review. Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency. Sec. 9. Termination of Authority. The authorities under this Act, with the exception of authorities granted in sections 2(b)(5), 5 and 7, shall terminate two years from the date of enactment of this Act. Sec. 10. Increase in Statutory Limit on the Public Debt. Subsection (b) of section 3101 of title 31, United States Code, is amended by striking out the dollar limitation contained in such subsection and inserting in lieu thereof $11,315,000,000,000. Sec. 11. Credit Reform. The costs of purchases of mortgage-related assets made under section 2(a) of this Act shall be determined as provided under the Federal Credit Reform Act of 1990, as applicable. Sec. 12. Definitions. For purposes of this section, the following definitions shall apply: (1) Mortgage-Related Assets.-The term mortgage-related assets means residential or commercial mortgages and any securities, obligations, or other instruments that are based on or related to such mortgages, that in each case was originated or issued on or before September 17, 2008. (2) Secretary.-The term Secretary means the Secretary of the Treasury. (3) United States.-The term United States means the States, territories, and possessions of the United States and the District of Columbia. Agreed. Yet another sign of corruption in the Executive and Legislative branches. Yet another lie of the Executive Branch. What happened to the "Full transparency" Paulson promised? Bloomberg is suing under FOIA because the Treasury refuses to divulge recipients or price. The Congress is the only group who can pass a spending bill, the only ones who can say we spend this money. The Executive Branch can approve or veto the bill with their Check and Balance part of government. But it is only Congress who can first say lets spend money and tell the rest of government to spend money and how much they can spend. And the Democrats have been in control of the checkbook for nearly 2 years. Bush and the Republicans sux. But so does the Democrats and Pelosi, expecially Pelosi, and Reid. You cannot gloss over the 6 years of a Republican congress so easily and blame the next class for their bending over and dropping their trousers for Bush/Cheney. You cannot blame the Democrats for the 6 years Bush and the Republican Congress put these wheels in motion. -- Regards, Curly ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ RIP -- Robert Lee Burnside 11/23/26 - 9/1/05 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ .................................................. ............... 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