On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:09:22 -0800, "Bay Area Holdout"
wrote:


"Cliff" wrote in message
.. .
Another three trillion down the drain.
Does the phrase "Miserable Failure" ring a bell?

OTOH AIG had another nice party and someone
is getting a lot of taxpayer money .... well, debt to
the taxpayer, anyway. THEY got the money.

No accountability either AFAIK. Just
free money ... How did this get started
again?
--
Cliff

Well CONGRESS and Bush decided something had to be done. Paulson proposed
the bailout, they wrote it up and sent it to CONGRESS.

The HOUSE votes and rejects it. Let the games begin!
Pelosi in her brillant leadership role blames the Republicans(surprize!) but
96 Dems vote NO the first time as well. If as LEADER of the HOUSE Dems she
got 20 or so of those 96 to vote YES, it would have PASSED first time!
But no she blames the Republicans......great leader that she is.

A few days later, what was sent to CONGRESS as a THREE PAGE Bill becomes a
FOUR HUNDRED PAGE Bill loaded with PORK. And now it PASSES!

Sent to Bush and he signs it as he said he would.

And that is how this got started!

Happy about it...nope. Are they going to end up doing more...yup. Is this
the only solution, well it seems to be now, as everyone with a lobbyist is
sreaming they need money.
Will it get better, once the smoke clears it will, could take years and as
with 9/11 things will be different, but it will not the same as it was
before. Welcome to the new Europe, land of the dole and socialisim. Once
even more people start sucking on the government money "tit", it was the
end.

BAHO

------------
That 750 billion is small change.

The total cost to prevent [or at least delay] market clearing of
dodgy (worthless) assets [and the resulting collapse of many of
the major banks, brokerages, insurance companies, hedge funds and
venture capital -private equity funds] is now estimated to be AT
LEAST 5 trillion dollars.

To put this in perspective the total annual production of all
goods and services in the United States [GDP] is estimated at
slightly more than 13 trillion dollars. 5/13 = 38% of GDP IN TWO
MONTHS WITH NO END IN SIGHT, AND NO ACCOUNTABILITY.

for complete article click on
http://www.forbes.com/home/2008/11/1...12bailout.html

Note that despite the huge sums of money involved, only a few
tiny crumbs have fallen off the table to the citizens below in
terms of foreclosure abatements, etc. while their unemployment
rate skyrockets.


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:27:16 -0800, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:

Nice fairy tale but that's what it is.

JC
---------
When do we get to the part where "they lived happily ever after?"

Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:27:16 -0800, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:

Nice fairy tale but that's what it is.

JC
---------
When do we get to the part where "they lived happily ever after?"

That's next semester George and it's in the text for THAT course.
What we are viewing now is the final chapter of Bushenomics I.



--

Dick

Ed Huntress wrote:
"Keith nuttle" wrote in message
...
John R. Carroll wrote:
"Bay Area Holdout" wrote in message
...
"Cliff" wrote in message
...
Another three trillion down the drain.
Does the phrase "Miserable Failure" ring a bell?

OTOH AIG had another nice party and someone
is getting a lot of taxpayer money .... well, debt to
the taxpayer, anyway. THEY got the money.

No accountability either AFAIK. Just
free money ... How did this get started
again?
--
Cliff
Well CONGRESS and Bush decided something had to be done. Paulson
proposed the bailout, they wrote it up and sent it to CONGRESS.

The HOUSE votes and rejects it. Let the games begin!
Pelosi in her brillant leadership role blames the Republicans(surprize!)
but 96 Dems vote NO the first time as well. If as LEADER of the HOUSE
Dems she got 20 or so of those 96 to vote YES, it would have PASSED
first time!
But no she blames the Republicans......great leader that she is.

A few days later, what was sent to CONGRESS as a THREE PAGE Bill
becomes a FOUR HUNDRED PAGE Bill loaded with PORK. And now it PASSES!

Sent to Bush and he signs it as he said he would.

And that is how this got started!

Nice fairy tale but that's what it is.

JC
Now that the facts have been given and the only response is its a fairy
tale despite the fact that the information has been published in the media
for the last two month and can not be disproved, assassination of the
poster will commence.

No, no "facts" have been given, only misleading factiods that misrepresent
the truth. What's been "given" is an accusation that the Democrats voted
against the bill, when in fact they voted in favor of it by a margin of 45
votes. The ones who sandbagged it were the Republicans, who voted against it
by a margin of 68 votes:

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll674.xml

And that was on a proposal from a Republican administration! What was that
you were saying about "leadership"?

The bill, which House Republicans said was inadequate, was picked up by the
Senate as a medium for enfolding four distinct bills, which shifted much of
the bailout from banking institutions to individuals and small businesses
(that's what's being called "pork"). This, as you may have noticed, is what
the Administration itself has been shifting to in later versions of their
plan. _The Economist_, which came out today, illustrates this with a picture
of Paulson pulling multiple rabbits out of his hat. g

The Senate took that approach to expand the bill because they're constrained
by the origination clause of the Constitution from originating revenue bills
in this area. So the bill eventually passed by Congress bears little
relationship to the original. They just used it as a subterfuge, an
opportunity to skirt around Article I, Section 7 of the Constitution. Senate
Republicans passed this version; House Republicans still voted against it,
but lost the vote; and the President signed this combined bill.

If you are a liberal and confronted with facts that are contrary to what
you believe the messenger will be killed.

John was too generous with "Bay Area Holdout." I'd say the "facts" the
Holdout presented are the product of either an inadequate mind or of an
intentionally misleading one.

--
Ed Huntress


What ever the spin you put on the facts, in the time when this country
need leadership in the house of representatives, polosi complete failed
the test. Leadership is the act of leading based on the facts at hand
not pursuing personal goals.

"Dick 'Tater" wrote in message
...
F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:27:16 -0800, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:

Nice fairy tale but that's what it is.

JC
---------
When do we get to the part where "they lived happily ever after?"

That's next semester George and it's in the text for THAT course.
What we are viewing now is the final chapter of Bushenomics I.



--

Dick



Are you sure it is not the next step in Democrat economics. They passed the
spending bill.

"Keith nuttle" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Keith nuttle" wrote in message
...
John R. Carroll wrote:
"Bay Area Holdout" wrote in message
...
"Cliff" wrote in message
...
Another three trillion down the drain.
Does the phrase "Miserable Failure" ring a bell?

OTOH AIG had another nice party and someone
is getting a lot of taxpayer money .... well, debt to
the taxpayer, anyway. THEY got the money.

No accountability either AFAIK. Just
free money ... How did this get started
again?
--
Cliff
Well CONGRESS and Bush decided something had to be done. Paulson
proposed the bailout, they wrote it up and sent it to CONGRESS.

The HOUSE votes and rejects it. Let the games begin!
Pelosi in her brillant leadership role blames the
Republicans(surprize!) but 96 Dems vote NO the first time as well. If
as LEADER of the HOUSE Dems she got 20 or so of those 96 to vote YES,
it would have PASSED first time!
But no she blames the Republicans......great leader that she is.

A few days later, what was sent to CONGRESS as a THREE PAGE Bill
becomes a FOUR HUNDRED PAGE Bill loaded with PORK. And now it PASSES!

Sent to Bush and he signs it as he said he would.

And that is how this got started!

Nice fairy tale but that's what it is.

JC
Now that the facts have been given and the only response is its a fairy
tale despite the fact that the information has been published in the
media for the last two month and can not be disproved, assassination of
the poster will commence.

No, no "facts" have been given, only misleading factiods that
misrepresent the truth. What's been "given" is an accusation that the
Democrats voted against the bill, when in fact they voted in favor of it
by a margin of 45 votes. The ones who sandbagged it were the Republicans,
who voted against it by a margin of 68 votes:

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll674.xml

And that was on a proposal from a Republican administration! What was
that you were saying about "leadership"?

The bill, which House Republicans said was inadequate, was picked up by
the Senate as a medium for enfolding four distinct bills, which shifted
much of the bailout from banking institutions to individuals and small
businesses (that's what's being called "pork"). This, as you may have
noticed, is what the Administration itself has been shifting to in later
versions of their plan. _The Economist_, which came out today,
illustrates this with a picture of Paulson pulling multiple rabbits out
of his hat. g

The Senate took that approach to expand the bill because they're
constrained by the origination clause of the Constitution from
originating revenue bills in this area. So the bill eventually passed by
Congress bears little relationship to the original. They just used it as
a subterfuge, an opportunity to skirt around Article I, Section 7 of the
Constitution. Senate Republicans passed this version; House Republicans
still voted against it, but lost the vote; and the President signed this
combined bill.

If you are a liberal and confronted with facts that are contrary to what
you believe the messenger will be killed.

John was too generous with "Bay Area Holdout." I'd say the "facts" the
Holdout presented are the product of either an inadequate mind or of an
intentionally misleading one.

--
Ed Huntress
What ever the spin you put on the facts...


"SPIN"? Those ARE the facts. If you weren't too lazy to check it out for
yourself, rather than sitting on your heels and blowing smoke, you'd know
the facts before making accusations.

...in the time when this country need leadership in the house of
representatives, polosi complete failed the test.

So, you're saying that you *expect* the Republicans to do something
irresponsible, like voting the bill down by 68 votes, that runs counter to
the interests of the country, and that the Democrats should correct the
Republicans' irresponsibility and selfish interest by voting a party line to
support a bill proposed by a REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATION?

House and Senate leaders don't whip their parties for a debatable bill. In
fact, even the administration now says that the original bill was not the
right answer to the question.

Leadership is the act of leading based on the facts at hand not pursuing
personal goals.

If you believe that voting for the bill was the right thing to do, even
though Paulson now says it wasn't the right way to deal with the problem,
then tell that to the Republican leadership. They're the ones who voted
against it, not the Democrats.

--
Ed Huntress

In article ,
"Bay Area Holdout" wrote:

Well CONGRESS and Bush decided something had to be done. Paulson proposed
the bailout, they wrote it up and sent it to CONGRESS.

The HOUSE votes and rejects it. Let the games begin!
Pelosi in her brillant leadership role blames the Republicans(surprize!) but
96 Dems vote NO the first time as well. If as LEADER of the HOUSE Dems she
got 20 or so of those 96 to vote YES, it would have PASSED first time!
But no she blames the Republicans......great leader that she is.

why are republicans in congress so leary of voting with shrub?

arf meow arf - cats and dogs living together - who ya goin call
its the end of the world as you know it - filler text goes here
this is how the world ends - not with a whimper but with a bang
this is how the world ends - not with a whimper but with a bang

In article ,
"Calif Bill" wrote:

Are you sure it is not the next step in Democrat economics. They passed the
spending bill.

okay

so thats why republicans in congress are so leary of voting witth shrub
because this way if it all falls apart
then they can blame the entire mess on democrats

since this started before 2007
republicans have already blamed democrats for what happened before that
because as a minority party they didnt block republican legislation

arf meow arf - cats and dogs living together - who ya goin call
its the end of the world as you know it - filler text goes here
this is how the world ends - not with a whimper but with a bang
this is how the world ends - not with a whimper but with a bang

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 04:06:58 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Nov 13, 6:07*am, Cliff wrote:
* Another three trillion down the drain.
* Does the phrase "Miserable Failure" ring a bell?

* OTOH AIG had another nice party and someone
is getting a lot of taxpayer money .... *well, debt to
the taxpayer, anyway. THEY got the money.

* No accountability either AFAIK. Just
free money ... *How did this get started
again?
--
Cliff

The dems are pilfering the money. Nothing new there.

They are not running things yet.
Bushco is.
So you lied. Again.

HTH
--
Cliff

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 04:17:36 -0800, rand mair fheal wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

On Nov 13, 6:07*am, Cliff wrote:
* Another three trillion down the drain.
* Does the phrase "Miserable Failure" ring a bell?

* OTOH AIG had another nice party and someone
is getting a lot of taxpayer money .... *well, debt to
the taxpayer, anyway. THEY got the money.

* No accountability either AFAIK. Just
free money ... *How did this get started
again?
--
Cliff

The dems are pilfering the money. Nothing new there.

its all obamas fault

Poor little Monica's again.
She gave Palin a LOT of handbags !!!
--
Cliff