damn fools building on the beach
 

On Sep 19, 9:39*pm, "Eisboch" wrote:
wrote in message

...

The trouble is that even if a structure is built to resist the forces
of a 200mph wind, it isn't practical to build one to resist the forces
of wind blown debris. Once you have compromised the wall, which is
acting as a diaphram to resist those wind forces with wind blown
debris, bad things start happening quickly.

---------------------------------------

Yep. *The house we had in Florida was built in the late 90's and was
designed to withstand 150 mph winds.

The house structure was fine. *But during one of the 3 hurricanes that hit
back in 2002-2003, the double door "French Doorway" opened during a gust.

The rest was history. * Totally destroyed much of the interior, blowing open
three more double doors to the outside.

If the main, double door had held tight, minimal damage to the house would
have occurred.

Eisboch

A hit on any piece of unprotected or improperly secured door or window
opening on a 200 mph rated structure will indeed impact on the
integrity of the structure.

And?

damn fools building on the beach
 

On Sep 19, 10:00*pm, JimH wrote:
On Sep 19, 9:39*pm, "Eisboch" wrote:





wrote in message

....

The trouble is that even if a structure is built to resist the forces
of a 200mph wind, it isn't practical to build one to resist the forces
of wind blown debris. Once you have compromised the wall, which is
acting as a diaphram to resist those wind forces with wind blown
debris, bad things start happening quickly.

---------------------------------------

Yep. *The house we had in Florida was built in the late 90's and was
designed to withstand 150 mph winds.

The house structure was fine. *But during one of the 3 hurricanes that hit
back in 2002-2003, the double door "French Doorway" opened during a gust.

damn fools building on the beach
 

On Sep 19, 10:26 pm, wrote:
On Sep 19, 10:00 pm, JimH wrote:



On Sep 19, 9:39 pm, "Eisboch" wrote:

wrote in message

...

The trouble is that even if a structure is built to resist the forces
of a 200mph wind, it isn't practical to build one to resist the forces
of wind blown debris. Once you have compromised the wall, which is
acting as a diaphram to resist those wind forces with wind blown
debris, bad things start happening quickly.

---------------------------------------

Yep. The house we had in Florida was built in the late 90's and was
designed to withstand 150 mph winds.

The house structure was fine. But during one of the 3 hurricanes that hit
back in 2002-2003, the double door "French Doorway" opened during a gust.

The rest was history. Totally destroyed much of the interior, blowing open
three more double doors to the outside.

If the main, double door had held tight, minimal damage to the house would
have occurred.

Eisboch

A hit on any piece of unprotected or improperly secured door or window
opening on a 200 mph rated structure will indeed impact on the
integrity of the structure.

Hilarious. JimH, the Ohio idiot, is now an expert on hurricane rated
structures. What a laugh.

Real Florida natives do not live on the coast, we have better sense.
The coast moves around and a 20' surge can ruin things. FL Crackers
who needed to be at the coast to fish for mullet would have frame
houses with the electrical stuff coming from the ceiling in case of
flooding and none of that dry wall either, and insulation, hell, this
is FL. They'd furnish it from a rummage sale and when it flooded
you'd see all the mattresses being burned and then they'd go to
another rummage sale. Now, these fools have homes worth millions of
dollars in a place where they are guaranteed to get hit and they
expect me o help pay their insurance, morons.

AS far as things o see here, Thank God ppl are stupid enough to think
Disney or MGM is great cuz it keeps em away from the good stuff. Put
razor wire along I-75 and dont let em out of the Miami-Orlando-Atlanta
corridor. Tourist, pay yer money and git souvenirs of plastic
alligators from China, THEN GO HOME.

damn fools building on the beach
 

On Sep 19, 11:33 pm, wrote:
On Sep 19, 10:26 pm, wrote:



On Sep 19, 10:00 pm, JimH wrote:

On Sep 19, 9:39 pm, "Eisboch" wrote:

wrote in message

...

The trouble is that even if a structure is built to resist the forces
of a 200mph wind, it isn't practical to build one to resist the forces
of wind blown debris. Once you have compromised the wall, which is
acting as a diaphram to resist those wind forces with wind blown
debris, bad things start happening quickly.

---------------------------------------

Yep. The house we had in Florida was built in the late 90's and was
designed to withstand 150 mph winds.

The house structure was fine. But during one of the 3 hurricanes that hit
back in 2002-2003, the double door "French Doorway" opened during a gust.

The rest was history. Totally destroyed much of the interior, blowing open
three more double doors to the outside.

If the main, double door had held tight, minimal damage to the house would
have occurred.

Eisboch

A hit on any piece of unprotected or improperly secured door or window
opening on a 200 mph rated structure will indeed impact on the
integrity of the structure.

Hilarious. JimH, the Ohio idiot, is now an expert on hurricane rated
structures. What a laugh.

Real Florida natives do not live on the coast, we have better sense.
The coast moves around and a 20' surge can ruin things. FL Crackers
who needed to be at the coast to fish for mullet would have frame
houses with the electrical stuff coming from the ceiling in case of
flooding and none of that dry wall either, and insulation, hell, this
is FL. They'd furnish it from a rummage sale and when it flooded
you'd see all the mattresses being burned and then they'd go to
another rummage sale. Now, these fools have homes worth millions of
dollars in a place where they are guaranteed to get hit and they
expect me o help pay their insurance, morons.

AS far as things o see here, Thank God ppl are stupid enough to think
Disney or MGM is great cuz it keeps em away from the good stuff. Put
razor wire along I-75 and dont let em out of the Miami-Orlando-Atlanta
corridor. Tourist, pay yer money and git souvenirs of plastic
alligators from China, THEN GO HOME.

And another thing, the closest you'll get me to Canada is a friggin
snow globe.
(I hope y'all aren't taking me seriously)

damn fools building on the beach
 

wrote in message
...
On Sep 19, 10:00 pm, JimH wrote:


What an idiot. In the first place, structures aren't "rated" for a
particular wind speed.

------------------------------

Really?

I was under the impression that building codes, particularly in Florida,
have specific requirements on wind speed ratings.
Newer codes are higher than those of 20 years ago.

I know that when we decided to add an aluminum framed, screen enclousure on
the pool we had beside the Florida house, we ran into a bee's nest of
permitting regulations and requirements. In order to have any part of the
enclousure attach to any part of the house or deck, we were required to get
a professional structural engineer, certified in Florida, to approve it,
including modifications required to ensure that the method of construction
and attachment met current codes. The criteria was wind speed, and I
believe at the time it was 150 mph. This was in addition to having the
screen enclousure frame itself to be designed to 150 mph wind.

They didn't care about the screening .... in fact it is designed to blow out
at a certain wind speed, reducing the sail effect on the aluminum frame.

Eisboch

damn fools building on the beach
 

Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sep 19, 10:00 pm, JimH wrote:


What an idiot. In the first place, structures aren't "rated" for a
particular wind speed.

------------------------------

Really?

I was under the impression that building codes, particularly in Florida,
have specific requirements on wind speed ratings.
Newer codes are higher than those of 20 years ago.

I know that when we decided to add an aluminum framed, screen enclousure on
the pool we had beside the Florida house, we ran into a bee's nest of
permitting regulations and requirements. In order to have any part of the
enclousure attach to any part of the house or deck, we were required to get
a professional structural engineer, certified in Florida, to approve it,
including modifications required to ensure that the method of construction
and attachment met current codes. The criteria was wind speed, and I
believe at the time it was 150 mph. This was in addition to having the
screen enclousure frame itself to be designed to 150 mph wind.

They didn't care about the screening .... in fact it is designed to blow out
at a certain wind speed, reducing the sail effect on the aluminum frame.

Eisboch




Justwaitaloogy is playing semantics. I believe the terms are "wind load"
and "wind load rating."

damn fools building on the beach
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Sep 19, 10:00 pm, JimH wrote:


What an idiot. In the first place, structures aren't "rated" for a
particular wind speed.

------------------------------

Really?

I was under the impression that building codes, particularly in Florida,
have specific requirements on wind speed ratings.
Newer codes are higher than those of 20 years ago.

I know that when we decided to add an aluminum framed, screen enclousure
on the pool we had beside the Florida house, we ran into a bee's nest of
permitting regulations and requirements. In order to have any part of the
enclousure attach to any part of the house or deck, we were required to
get a professional structural engineer, certified in Florida, to approve
it, including modifications required to ensure that the method of
construction and attachment met current codes. The criteria was wind
speed, and I believe at the time it was 150 mph. This was in addition to
having the screen enclousure frame itself to be designed to 150 mph wind.

They didn't care about the screening .... in fact it is designed to blow
out at a certain wind speed, reducing the sail effect on the aluminum
frame.

Eisboch


There was a statewide building code enacted in 2001 I think. In it there
were a lot of more stringent specs on windows, doors,shingles,truss tiedowns
ect. Pool screens had enhanced specs written too. Countys could make any of
those specs more stringent to suit their needs. Most of the hurricane damage
you see nowadays is to older homes (pre 2001) and to mobile/manufactured
homes .
Did your double doors open in as you would normally expect, or did they open
outward? Mine open outward and someone said to me that's part of the new
codes. I didn't bother to verify that.

damn fools building on the beach
 

On Sep 20, 9:50*am, "Eisboch" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Sep 19, 10:00 pm, JimH wrote:

What an idiot. In the first place, structures aren't "rated" for a
particular wind speed.

------------------------------

Really?

I was under the impression that building codes, particularly in Florida,
have specific requirements on wind speed ratings.
Newer codes are higher than those of 20 years ago.

I know that when we decided to add an aluminum framed, screen enclousure on
the pool we had beside the Florida house, we ran into a bee's nest of
permitting regulations and requirements. *In order to have any part of the
enclousure attach to any part of the house or deck, we were required to get
a professional structural engineer, certified in Florida, to approve it,
including modifications required to ensure that the method of construction
and attachment met current codes. *The criteria was wind speed, and I
believe at the time it was 150 mph. * This was in addition to having the
screen enclousure frame itself to be designed to 150 mph wind.

They didn't care about the screening .... in fact it is designed to blow out
at a certain wind speed, reducing the sail effect on the aluminum frame.

Eisboch

While a structure is designed using specific wind data, in Florida's
case, the FBC basically the IBC with amendments, and the IBC uses ASCE
7-05 which most building codes use, and those wind maps are based on
100 year data. BUT a structure isn't "rated" by anyone, unless a
private entity, say the builder, decides to do so to make a selling
point. Here is why. Let's say we have a wind of a certain speed and a
certain direction blowing on a rectangular building. Even though the
speed is constant (here's where we show Harry and JimH don't know
****~!) the wind PRESSURE is NOT constant. Have you ever seen a mobile
home on the side of the highway where part of the siding has blown off
when towing? Notice where the siding fails nine out of ten times. The
rear corner. Negative pressure from the wind coming around that corner
has sucked the siding off! In short, the windward wall has a postive
pressure of X amount, the leeward wall has a negative pressure of Y
amount, they are hardly ever the same value. Then you have the roof.
Slope, wind direction, area, etc. all have an affect on the PRESSURE.
In short, we are really designing for this negative and positive
pressure as opposed to wind speed. We simply use data in the form of
wind speed to mathematically arrive at those pressures. And it goes
further, terrain makes a big impact, as well as nearby structure.

damn fools building on the beach
 

"Raphael" wrote in message
...

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Sep 19, 10:00 pm, JimH wrote:


What an idiot. In the first place, structures aren't "rated" for a
particular wind speed.

------------------------------

Really?

I was under the impression that building codes, particularly in Florida,
have specific requirements on wind speed ratings.
Newer codes are higher than those of 20 years ago.

I know that when we decided to add an aluminum framed, screen enclousure
on the pool we had beside the Florida house, we ran into a bee's nest of
permitting regulations and requirements. In order to have any part of
the enclousure attach to any part of the house or deck, we were required
to get a professional structural engineer, certified in Florida, to
approve it, including modifications required to ensure that the method of
construction and attachment met current codes. The criteria was wind
speed, and I believe at the time it was 150 mph. This was in addition
to having the screen enclousure frame itself to be designed to 150 mph
wind.

They didn't care about the screening .... in fact it is designed to blow
out at a certain wind speed, reducing the sail effect on the aluminum
frame.

Eisboch


There was a statewide building code enacted in 2001 I think. In it there
were a lot of more stringent specs on windows, doors,shingles,truss
tiedowns ect. Pool screens had enhanced specs written too. Countys could
make any of those specs more stringent to suit their needs. Most of the
hurricane damage you see nowadays is to older homes (pre 2001) and to
mobile/manufactured homes .
Did your double doors open in as you would normally expect, or did they
open outward? Mine open outward and someone said to me that's part of the
new codes. I didn't bother to verify that.


That was the problem. If you recall, the main front doors opened inward.
All the rest of the double doors (there were two downstairs and one off the
master bedroom upstairs) opened outward. The wind blew the front doors
open, inward and the whole house then became a whirlwind, blowing the other
doors open outward. I think that house was built in 1998 or thereabouts.

Anyway, the repairs included a new, double door entry that opened outward.

That damage was cause by the first of the three hurricanes that year.
Wilma, the last and worst in terms of wind, caused very little damage,
mainly because previous damage had been fixed to new code standards.

I am still amazed that all those floor to ceiling windows in the main living
room held. I still think it was because we had window tinting film on them.

Eisboch

damn fools building on the beach
 

wrote in message
...

While a structure is designed using specific wind data, in Florida's
case, the FBC basically the IBC with amendments, and the IBC uses ASCE
7-05 which most building codes use, and those wind maps are based on
100 year data. BUT a structure isn't "rated" by anyone, unless a
private entity, say the builder, decides to do so to make a selling
point. Here is why. Let's say we have a wind of a certain speed and a
certain direction blowing on a rectangular building. Even though the
speed is constant (here's where we show Harry and JimH don't know
****~!) the wind PRESSURE is NOT constant. Have you ever seen a mobile
home on the side of the highway where part of the siding has blown off
when towing? Notice where the siding fails nine out of ten times. The
rear corner. Negative pressure from the wind coming around that corner
has sucked the siding off! In short, the windward wall has a postive
pressure of X amount, the leeward wall has a negative pressure of Y
amount, they are hardly ever the same value. Then you have the roof.
Slope, wind direction, area, etc. all have an affect on the PRESSURE.
In short, we are really designing for this negative and positive
pressure as opposed to wind speed. We simply use data in the form of
wind speed to mathematically arrive at those pressures. And it goes
further, terrain makes a big impact, as well as nearby structure.

---------------------------------------------

Thanks for the explanation. It makes sense. Apparently to us laypeople,
they simply tell us it has to be designed for XXX amount of wind speed.

Eisboch