McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
 

Peter Skelton wrote:

:On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 22:00:23 -0700, Fred J. McCall
wrote:
:
:Taxes based on income should be flat. They distort the economy the
:least that way and allow it to function closer to its optimum levels.
:
:
:That, of course, is a religious statement, devoid of proof and
:unprovable.
:

No, Peter, that is a basic fact, as you would know if you knew
anything at all about Economics.

--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson

McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
 

"Eisboch" wrote:

:
:"wf3h" wrote in message news:28a17e74-ce4b-455d-b265-
:
:the BIG difference is that NONE of my income is from capital gains!!
:how much of middle class income do you think comes from capital gains?
:

Start taxing capital gains at an even more confiscatory level and see
just what happens to "much of middle class" retirement.

:
:that's EXACTLY why the rich set up this system...so they wouldnt have
:to pay taxes, knowing full well that most of THEIR income is from
:capital gains, while middle class income comes from actually WORKING
:for a living
:

Yes, the wealthy never do anything, do they? Makes you wonder how
they got and stayed wealthy...

:
:---------------------------------
:
:It's amazing to me to witness the different views of capital gains and
:capital gains taxes.
:
:Some see it your way. Others see the reduction of the capital gains
:penalty (taxes) as a means to encourage investment into the general economy
:which, turns out, promotes growth, employment and new opportunities.
:
:The fact that you have never figured out how to take advantage of it doesn't
:mean it's bad for all.
:

In point of fact, capital gains is a PUNITIVE tax. The rich didn't
put it in place. Morons like Eisboch did.

--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn

McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
 

frank wrote:
:
:
: Yes, and you know JFK changed that because it was ****ing up the
: economy so badly, right?
:
:
:No Fred you're a liar and an idiot.
:

Well, there's a telling and fact-based rebuttal.

About what one would expect from a political shill like Frank.

:
:He cut taxes as there was no government spending or deficit at the
:time and he was concerned that there would be too much money in the
:Federal treasury and that would distort the economy.
:
:We have not been in that condition since.
:

We weren't in that condition THEN, either. You just don't really let
reality intrude, do you, Frank? Public debt was a higher percentage
of GDP *THEN* than it is now (45% vs 38%).

A few quotes for you to show you what JFK was thinking. I doubt it
will change your silly misinterpretation, above, since you don't let
reality affect your opinions, but perhaps this time will be the first
and you will like the change.


"It is a paradoxical truth that tax rates are too high and tax
revenues are too low and the soundest way to raise the revenues in the
long run is to cut the rates now ... Cutting taxes now is not to incur
a budget deficit, but to achieve the more prosperous, expanding
economy which can bring a budget surplus."

– John F. Kennedy, Nov. 20, 1962, president's news conference


"Lower rates of taxation will stimulate economic activity and so raise
the levels of personal and corporate income as to yield within a few
years an increased – not a reduced – flow of revenues to the federal
government."

– John F. Kennedy, Jan. 17, 1963, annual budget message to the
Congress, fiscal year 1964


"In today's economy, fiscal prudence and responsibility call for tax
reduction even if it temporarily enlarges the federal deficit – why
reducing taxes is the best way open to us to increase revenues."

– John F. Kennedy, Jan. 21, 1963, annual message to the Congress: "The
Economic Report Of The President"


"Our tax system still siphons out of the private economy too large a
share of personal and business purchasing power and reduces the
incentive for risk, investment and effort – thereby aborting our
recoveries and stifling our national growth rate."

– John F. Kennedy, Jan. 24, 1963, message to Congress on tax reduction
and reform, House Doc. 43, 88th Congress, 1st Session.


"A tax cut means higher family income and higher business profits and
a balanced federal budget. Every taxpayer and his family will have
more money left over after taxes for a new car, a new home, new
conveniences, education and investment. Every businessman can keep a
higher percentage of his profits in his cash register or put it to
work expanding or improving his business, and as the national income
grows, the federal government will ultimately end up with more
revenues."

– John F. Kennedy, Sept. 18, 1963, radio and television address to the
nation on tax-reduction bill


"Our present tax system ... exerts too heavy a drag on growth ... It
reduces the financial incentives for personal effort, investment, and
risk-taking ... The present tax load ... distorts economic judgments
and channels an undue amount of energy into efforts to avoid tax
liabilities."

– John F. Kennedy, Nov. 20, 1962, press conference


"In short, it is a paradoxical truth that ... the soundest way to
raise the revenues in the long run is to cut the rates now. The
experience of a number of European countries and Japan have borne this
out. This country's own experience with tax reduction in 1954 has
borne this out. And the reason is that only full employment can
balance the budget, and tax reduction can pave the way to that
employment. The purpose of cutting taxes now is not to incur a budget
deficit, but to achieve the more prosperous, expanding economy which
can bring a budget surplus."

– John F. Kennedy, Nov. 20, 1962, news conference

:
:With the rising debt (doubled under this idiot), and the interest in
:the debt, up to $405 billion this year, WE NEED TO **** CAN the tax
:cuts. WHY DO YOU THINK REAGAN HAD THE LARGEST TAX INCREASE IN HISTORY
:RIGHT AFTER HE HAD THE LARGEST TAX CUT? IT DID NOT WORK. IT WAS VOODOO
:ECONOMICS. Bush I was right in that case.
:

And debt is still not at the level it was at under JFK. It also
hasn't "doubled" in any real terms, although it has gone up (which
usually happens when you're fighting a war). In 2000 public debt was
a bit over 35% of GDP. Now it's about 38% of GDP (predicted for
2008). For historical comparison, that number in 1950 (coming out of
WWII and into Korea and the Cold War) was OVER 80% OF GDP.

As for your all uppercase statement, I think you're lying. Let's see
a cite.

:
:You may think you have a degree in the field but you're an idiot who
:doesn't know what he's talking about.
:
:Go back in your cage and play with your feces until its feeding time.
:

Now there's a telling factual analysis in rebuttal.

You're pathetic, Frank.

--
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the
soul with evil."
-- Socrates

McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
 

Fred J. McCall wrote:
Peter Skelton wrote:

:On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 22:00:23 -0700, Fred J. McCall
wrote:
:
:Taxes based on income should be flat. They distort the economy the
:least that way and allow it to function closer to its optimum levels.
:
:
:That, of course, is a religious statement, devoid of proof and
:unprovable.
:

No, Peter, that is a basic fact, as you would know if you knew
anything at all about Economics.

Thanks for proving his point.

Dan

McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
 

On Sep 14, 8:53*am, "Eisboch" wrote:
"wf3h" wrote in message news:28a17e74-ce4b-455d-b265-

the BIG difference is that NONE of my income is from capital gains!!
how much of middle class income do you think comes from capital gains?
that's EXACTLY why the rich set up this system...so they wouldnt have
to pay taxes, knowing full well that most of THEIR income is from
capital gains, while middle class income comes from actually WORKING
for a living

---------------------------------

It's amazing to me to witness the different views of capital gains and
capital gains taxes.

Some see it your way. * Others see the reduction of the capital gains
penalty (taxes) as a means to encourage investment into the general economy
which, turns out, promotes growth, employment and new opportunities.

and others see that an honest day's work for an honest day's pay is an
honorable thing...except for the 'capital gains' class of folks who,
in their elitist mindset, sneer at honest labor and don't think the
middle class deserves even to be PAID for their work


The fact that you have never figured out how to take advantage of it doesn't
mean it's bad for all.

the fact you think the middle class is a bunch of morons speaks for
itself.

McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
 

"wf3h" wrote in message
...
On Sep 14, 8:53 am, "Eisboch" wrote:
"wf3h" wrote in message
news:28a17e74-ce4b-455d-b265-

the BIG difference is that NONE of my income is from capital gains!!
how much of middle class income do you think comes from capital gains?
that's EXACTLY why the rich set up this system...so they wouldnt have
to pay taxes, knowing full well that most of THEIR income is from
capital gains, while middle class income comes from actually WORKING
for a living

---------------------------------

It's amazing to me to witness the different views of capital gains and
capital gains taxes.

Some see it your way. Others see the reduction of the capital gains
penalty (taxes) as a means to encourage investment into the general
economy
which, turns out, promotes growth, employment and new opportunities.

and others see that an honest day's work for an honest day's pay is an
honorable thing...except for the 'capital gains' class of folks who,
in their elitist mindset, sneer at honest labor and don't think the
middle class deserves even to be PAID for their work


The fact that you have never figured out how to take advantage of it
doesn't
mean it's bad for all.

the fact you think the middle class is a bunch of morons speaks for
itself.

-------------------------------------------------------------


I am a member of the middle class. I am not a moron. I am also realistic
and knowledgeable enough to know that a growing world global economy was
being talked about by AGore, back in the early 90's, and the changes it
would have on the US job market and economy.

You have to prepare for and adjust to the times, not wait until your job
disappears and then waste all your time and energy complaining about it.

EIsboch

McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
 

Fred J. McCall wrote:
frank wrote:
:
:Bull****. Take a decent economics course, if they offer any anymore.
:

I have a degree in the field, Frank. You're an idiot.

:
:Progressive income tax with higher rates for richest is the way to go.
:Flat tax is worst on the poor. Hell everybody agreed on that until
:these stupid Republicans under Reagan took over.
:

Wrong. Progressive taxes are the MOST distortive to market forces.
Flat taxes distort the least and hence are the way to go.

If 'everyone agreed' until Reagan, why did JFK make taxes much less
regressive (and thereby stimulate both the economy and government tax
receipts)?

Me! Me! I know! Pick me!

Um, because they started at different initial conditions, ALEX?

I really hate the dishonest NeoCon/Republican One-Size-Fits-All approach
to life ("Takes all the mystery out of it.").


PLEASE someone remail this so Fred can see it - she has pretty much
killfiled anyone who disagrees with her, ostrich that she is.


:You know under Eisenhower, tax rate was 91% for some of the highest
:brackets?

Yes, and you know JFK changed that because it was ****ing up the
economy so badly, right?

Yeah, so why did Reagan mess with the economy by lowering taxes, then?

:You know some of them actually complained to the Treasury
:Secretary, and his response was, pay your damn taxes, you can afford
:it. You are gaining the largess due to what this country provides for
:you. From infrastructure to safe means to park your funds.

Cite? I think you're lying again.

You don't get economic value out of the interstate highway system?
People who ship more goods do not get a disproportional advantage from
the same system? You need a cite for that?

:The only people advocating a flat tax are the super rich who would
:make a killing on it

You're lying again.

"Only" is hyperbole - there are some uneducated folks who are not rich
who have been convinced by their NeoCon handlers to believe it, also.
Half point to Fred.

:(its only income and they would not count investments as income).

You're lying again.

No, he is just describing one such plan. In fact, most flat tax plans I
have seen do give steep discounts or free rides to capital gains, earned
disproportionately by people with the most disposable income (both as
"working" compensation and as investments).

:Why the hell is Forbes so gung ho on it?

Because he actually understand what you do not; non-flat taxes on
income distort the economy.

But flat-taxes also distort the economy. ANY economic activity, whether
by private, semi-private, or public agents, "distorts the economy," by
your definition, so what was your point? What gain do you actually
expect to see from a flat tax? You have never actually stated any, just
your view that it would not "distort the economy" somehow. What
BENEFITS are there in a flat tax? What drawbacks are there in a flat
tax? An honest debater would list several in each category, since there
are many in each category.

:To
:help the middle class? Hell no. He has no clue how you live. Neither
:does McCain or his wife. Anybody got a quarter mil earrings for the
:wife lately? Thought not. Well, you can thank the Reagan / Bush tax
:cuts for them getting richer and richer and ****ing away more than
:you'd pay on a house for ear candy.

Jealousy is SO ugly, Frank.

Jealousy? Methinks you should peruse a dictionary before you next put
finger to keyboard.

You and your "eat the rich; the poor are
tough and stringy" crowd make me nauseous. Where do you think the
jobs come from?

Small businesses trying to make a go of it in a big business world and
government. That is the record of the Bush plan; the losses come mainly
from big businesses shipping jobs overseas for tax breaks and small
businesses shopping out manufacturing to overseas facilities. The US
needs approximately 250,000 NET new jobs per month JUST TO STAY EVEN -
the Bush economy hasn't even met THAT goal more than a time or two...
Yet their "stimulus plans" have cost the country trillions of dollars,
not even factoring in the war. Those tax cuts sure have been wonderful...

:Look at how many people are millionaires or billionaires. And how many
:Americans have lost their jobs or houses? These tax cuts are killing
:the US

Now go look at who is paying the taxes, Frank...

Now, not too many people, which is why the deficit and the debt have
ballooned under the current administration, EVEN WITH people taking
equity out of their homes (which are NOW losing value) so they could get by.

Face it Fred, your plan has screwed the country - and you want MORE of
it. Just what DO you do that you want to screw your neighbors so much?

.................................................. .................
Poor Frank, can't even get to the level of being killfiled by Fred.
Keep trying - if you put enough rational information out there, Fred
will have no choice but to killfile you. Think of it as a badge of honor.
.................................................. .................

Dan

McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
 

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 13:13:55 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


"wf3h" wrote in message
...
On Sep 14, 8:53 am, "Eisboch" wrote:
"wf3h" wrote in message
news:28a17e74-ce4b-455d-b265-

the BIG difference is that NONE of my income is from capital gains!!
how much of middle class income do you think comes from capital gains?
that's EXACTLY why the rich set up this system...so they wouldnt have
to pay taxes, knowing full well that most of THEIR income is from
capital gains, while middle class income comes from actually WORKING
for a living

---------------------------------

It's amazing to me to witness the different views of capital gains and
capital gains taxes.

Some see it your way. Others see the reduction of the capital gains
penalty (taxes) as a means to encourage investment into the general
economy
which, turns out, promotes growth, employment and new opportunities.

and others see that an honest day's work for an honest day's pay is an
honorable thing...except for the 'capital gains' class of folks who,
in their elitist mindset, sneer at honest labor and don't think the
middle class deserves even to be PAID for their work


The fact that you have never figured out how to take advantage of it
doesn't
mean it's bad for all.

the fact you think the middle class is a bunch of morons speaks for
itself.

-------------------------------------------------------------


I am a member of the middle class. I am not a moron. I am also realistic
and knowledgeable enough to know that a growing world global economy was
being talked about by AGore, back in the early 90's, and the changes it
would have on the US job market and economy.

You have to prepare for and adjust to the times, not wait until your job
disappears and then waste all your time and energy complaining about it.

EIsboch


Sorry, Eichman, but we've seen pictures of your gentleman's farm and
many of your toys. You do not even remotely qualify as middle class,
unless you recently moved to Monaco and didn't tell us.

McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
 

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 10:04:18 -0700 (PDT), wf3h
wrote:

On Sep 14, 8:53Â*am, "Eisboch" wrote:
"wf3h" wrote in message news:28a17e74-ce4b-455d-b265-

the BIG difference is that NONE of my income is from capital gains!!
how much of middle class income do you think comes from capital gains?
that's EXACTLY why the rich set up this system...so they wouldnt have
to pay taxes, knowing full well that most of THEIR income is from
capital gains, while middle class income comes from actually WORKING
for a living

---------------------------------

It's amazing to me to witness the different views of capital gains and
capital gains taxes.

Some see it your way. Â* Others see the reduction of the capital gains
penalty (taxes) as a means to encourage investment into the general economy
which, turns out, promotes growth, employment and new opportunities.

and others see that an honest day's work for an honest day's pay is an
honorable thing...except for the 'capital gains' class of folks who,
in their elitist mindset, sneer at honest labor and don't think the
middle class deserves even to be PAID for their work

Funny thing about this is it depends on who is up and who is down.
When I went into IT I found myself among a bunch of "elitists"
who really thought they deserved to be making 7 time more than a good
cook or 3 times more than a bricklayer. Many were lazy.
I never understood how somebody could come into work, and start
reading the newspaper. Some at least had the decency to take a trip
to the toilet and sit in a stall to read.
They generally - not in front of me, they knew better - disparaged
factory production workers whose jobs were off-shored, and unions.
Then their jobs started being off-shored.
The whining began. Unions became acceptable.
But how do ballerinas organize? They can't. Too late.
So they became Democrats.
I've said this before. Until their cable TV is gone and they have
trouble putting food on the table, nothing will change.
Good chance McCain gets elected. I've got no problem with that.
We always get what we deserve. Or fight for.

--Vic

McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
 

"wf3h" wrote in message
...
On Sep 13, 11:36 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"wf3h" wrote in message

...
On Sep 13, 1:07 pm, Fred J. McCall wrote:





hk wrote:
:Fred J. McCall wrote:
: wf3h wrote:

: :
: :c'mon harry...don't you have the $5,000,000 that mccain says makes
: :you middle class?
: :
:
: I think that's a great level at which to say taxes shouldn't be
: increased.
:
: You WANT to pay more taxes? I think we need a program that lets you
: folks pick your own tax rate and not steal from the rest of us...
:
:
:I think anyone with income of more than $5 million a year ought to be
:paying twice the amount of taxes they're paying now.
:

Why?

--

why not? the largest increase in marginal tax rates occurs on the
middle class. the wealthy get a tax rate of 15% on capital gains
(which is alot less than the middle class pays) AND gets to write off
losses. they get the best of all worlds.

Same 15% you get to pay on capitol gains.

EXACTLY!!! gee even YOU get it!! thank you!!

the BIG difference is that NONE of my income is from capital gains!!
how much of middle class income do you think comes from capital gains?
that's EXACTLY why the rich set up this system...so they wouldnt have
to pay taxes, knowing full well that most of THEIR income is from
capital gains, while middle class income comes from actually WORKING
for a living

They have left the investment
untouched for a long period of time. And those capitol gains can only be
written off up to the the capitol losses + $1000.

my heart bleeds for them.

Huge part of the middle class gets the benifits of Capitol gains taxes.
Fact is, everybody gets the bennies. If you invest in a business or stock
ownership, and do not day trade, you get the benifit. And most of the
middle class is invested in the stock market one way of the other. Plus the
point of capitol gains is to get CAPITOL invested. All those jobs created
in the last at least 1000 years are from some person investing capitol and
time in a business. I owned a business at one time and the employees were
very happy to have a job and get a paycheck each week. I and my buddy
invested $50k and a lot of time in the business. I think the employees made
more per hour then we did. I could have put that in a long term CD and made
+10-12% (was the Carter years), but we gambled that we could get a better
return on starting a business. Maybe you should invest in the stock market.
May be able to move out of the lowest tax bracket. As to Obama saying he is
going to cut taxes for 95% of the people. Impossible. Only 45% pay income
tax in the first place. You have to elect legislators who do not waste
money. And the Republicans with the help of the Dem's over 7 of the last 8
years have wasted lots. The Dem's in charge of the checkbook the last year,
and they have not slowed down waste. 40 of the last 50 years have been
Dem's in charge of the checkbook. They have not done well.

McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
 

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 08:55:18 -0700, Fred J. McCall
wrote:

Peter Skelton wrote:

:On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 22:00:23 -0700, Fred J. McCall
wrote:
:
:Taxes based on income should be flat. They distort the economy the
:least that way and allow it to function closer to its optimum levels.
:
:
:That, of course, is a religious statement, devoid of proof and
:unprovable.
:

No, Peter, that is a basic fact, as you would know if you knew
anything at all about Economics.

Another religious statement, followed by a flat lie. If you have
a proof, show it.

Peter Skelton

McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
 

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 09:02:22 -0700, Fred J. McCall
wrote:

"Eisboch" wrote:

:
:"wf3h" wrote in message news:28a17e74-ce4b-455d-b265-
:
:the BIG difference is that NONE of my income is from capital gains!!
:how much of middle class income do you think comes from capital gains?
:

Start taxing capital gains at an even more confiscatory level and see
just what happens to "much of middle class" retirement.

:
:that's EXACTLY why the rich set up this system...so they wouldnt have
:to pay taxes, knowing full well that most of THEIR income is from
:capital gains, while middle class income comes from actually WORKING
:for a living
:

Yes, the wealthy never do anything, do they? Makes you wonder how
they got and stayed wealthy...

:
:---------------------------------
:
:It's amazing to me to witness the different views of capital gains and
:capital gains taxes.
:
:Some see it your way. Others see the reduction of the capital gains
:penalty (taxes) as a means to encourage investment into the general economy
:which, turns out, promotes growth, employment and new opportunities.
:
:The fact that you have never figured out how to take advantage of it doesn't
:mean it's bad for all.
:

In point of fact, capital gains is a PUNITIVE tax. The rich didn't
put it in place. Morons like Eisboch did.

Bull**** Fred. Capital gains are income, you are a believer in
flat tax aren't you?

That they should be treated differently from some other types of
income is too f*g obvious to debate. That there are other
categories of income that need to be treated specially is also
obvious.

Flat tax is an especially odious form of voodoo economics.


Peter Skelton

McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
 

wrote in message
...

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 13:13:55 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


I am a member of the middle class. I am not a moron. I am also
realistic
and knowledgeable enough to know that a growing world global economy was
being talked about by AGore, back in the early 90's, and the changes it
would have on the US job market and economy.

You have to prepare for and adjust to the times, not wait until your job
disappears and then waste all your time and energy complaining about it.

EIsboch



Sorry, Eichman, but we've seen pictures of your gentleman's farm and
many of your toys. You do not even remotely qualify as middle class,
unless you recently moved to Monaco and didn't tell us.



Ok. Here's what I don't get.....

The money that paid for the "gentleman's farm" (as you call it) and the toys
was earned as a regular, run of the mill, middle class work-a-bee .......
me.

My roots are firmly planted in the middle class economic sector. In fact,
if anything, more towards lower middle class, financially because I got a
late start in civilian employment and had to play financial catch up for a
while to equal my contemporaries that started work right out of high school
or college. Spent 9 years in the Navy doing a lot of interesting things
however none were particularly financially rewarding.

So, I go about making a living. Like most, I worked hard and took advantage
of opportunities. But one thing I *never* did was complain about those that
had more than I, nor did I envy them or the "rich". Frankly, I was too
busy trying to make a living.

The reward that came and now puts us in a comfortable financial situation
was never planned, considered or even dreamed of.
It just happened to turn out that what I did became very valuable to someone
else.

And, since I am not a complete dummy, I accepted.

So now, my question is ..... if I worked and lived most of my life as a
member of the middle class group, and then I happen to have a degree of
financial success, due to efforts as such, why am I now viewed differently,
called a moron and suddenly accused of not being able to understand what
it's like to be "middle class"?

My point is that I subscribe to and fully support the freedoms we have to
pursue any level of achievement, financial or otherwise that we set for
ourselves. It's not always easy, but as long as we have the freedom to
aspire, we can make that choice.
My biggest concern about the current Democratic party philosophy, and
particularly that of Obama, is that, if elected, we are going to rely more
on government to cure our middle class problems. This will, by default,
further classify us, average us, and take away the incentives of individual
initiative. In other words, another giant step towards socialism.

I am firmly convinced that Obama is an unannounced socialist, BTW.

Eisboch

McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
 

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...

As to Obama saying he is going to cut taxes for 95% of the people.
Impossible. Only 45% pay income tax in the first place.


You just said a mouthful.

He's really describing another form of government, namely Socialism.

All his speeches, writings and comments drip of the signals. If he is
elected and the Dems truly get control of the Congress, we are in for some
major "Changes".

Eisboch

McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...

As to Obama saying he is going to cut taxes for 95% of the people.
Impossible. Only 45% pay income tax in the first place.


You just said a mouthful.

He's really describing another form of government, namely Socialism.

All his speeches, writings and comments drip of the signals. If he is
elected and the Dems truly get control of the Congress, we are in for some
major "Changes".

Eisboch


Damn! did it again. I sure wish the "a" hole that started this cross
posting .... hadn't.

Eisboch

McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
 

Peter Skelton wrote:

:On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 08:55:18 -0700, Fred J. McCall
wrote:
:
:Peter Skelton wrote:
:
::On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 22:00:23 -0700, Fred J. McCall
wrote:
::
::Taxes based on income should be flat. They distort the economy the
::least that way and allow it to function closer to its optimum levels.
::
::
::That, of course, is a religious statement, devoid of proof and
::unprovable.
::
:
:No, Peter, that is a basic fact, as you would know if you knew
:anything at all about Economics.
:
:Another religious statement, followed by a flat lie. If you have
:a proof, show it.
:

No 'religious' statement and no lie.

Where and when did you get your degree in economics, Peter?

--
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the
soul with evil."
-- Socrates

McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
 

Peter Skelton wrote:

:On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 09:02:22 -0700, Fred J. McCall
wrote:
:
:"Eisboch" wrote:
:
::
::"wf3h" wrote in message news:28a17e74-ce4b-455d-b265-
::
::the BIG difference is that NONE of my income is from capital gains!!
::how much of middle class income do you think comes from capital gains?
::
:
:Start taxing capital gains at an even more confiscatory level and see
:just what happens to "much of middle class" retirement.
:
::
::that's EXACTLY why the rich set up this system...so they wouldnt have
::to pay taxes, knowing full well that most of THEIR income is from
::capital gains, while middle class income comes from actually WORKING
::for a living
::
:
:Yes, the wealthy never do anything, do they? Makes you wonder how
:they got and stayed wealthy...
:
::
::---------------------------------
::
::It's amazing to me to witness the different views of capital gains and
::capital gains taxes.
::
::Some see it your way. Others see the reduction of the capital gains
::penalty (taxes) as a means to encourage investment into the general economy
::which, turns out, promotes growth, employment and new opportunities.
::
::The fact that you have never figured out how to take advantage of it doesn't
::mean it's bad for all.
::
:
:In point of fact, capital gains is a PUNITIVE tax. The rich didn't
:put it in place. Morons like Eisboch did.
:
:Bull**** Fred.
:

Bull**** yourself, Peter.

:
:Capital gains are income,
:

Which has already been taxed once before it gets treated as capital
gains.

:
:you are a believer in
:flat tax aren't you?
:

Define what YOU mean by 'flat tax' and perhaps we could see.

But you're too busy being insulting and squealing to hold a real
conversation with...

:
:Flat tax is an especially odious form of voodoo economics.
:

Thus speaks ignorance...

--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson

McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
 

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 15:56:25 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


wrote in message
.. .

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 13:13:55 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


I am a member of the middle class. I am not a moron. I am also
realistic
and knowledgeable enough to know that a growing world global economy was
being talked about by AGore, back in the early 90's, and the changes it
would have on the US job market and economy.

You have to prepare for and adjust to the times, not wait until your job
disappears and then waste all your time and energy complaining about it.

EIsboch



Sorry, Eichman, but we've seen pictures of your gentleman's farm and
many of your toys. You do not even remotely qualify as middle class,
unless you recently moved to Monaco and didn't tell us.



Ok. Here's what I don't get.....

The money that paid for the "gentleman's farm" (as you call it) and the toys
was earned as a regular, run of the mill, middle class work-a-bee .......
me.

My roots are firmly planted in the middle class economic sector. In fact,
if anything, more towards lower middle class, financially because I got a
late start in civilian employment and had to play financial catch up for a
while to equal my contemporaries that started work right out of high school
or college. Spent 9 years in the Navy doing a lot of interesting things
however none were particularly financially rewarding.

So, I go about making a living. Like most, I worked hard and took advantage
of opportunities. But one thing I *never* did was complain about those that
had more than I, nor did I envy them or the "rich". Frankly, I was too
busy trying to make a living.

The reward that came and now puts us in a comfortable financial situation
was never planned, considered or even dreamed of.
It just happened to turn out that what I did became very valuable to someone
else.

And, since I am not a complete dummy, I accepted.

So now, my question is ..... if I worked and lived most of my life as a
member of the middle class group, and then I happen to have a degree of
financial success, due to efforts as such, why am I now viewed differently,
called a moron and suddenly accused of not being able to understand what
it's like to be "middle class"?

My point is that I subscribe to and fully support the freedoms we have to
pursue any level of achievement, financial or otherwise that we set for
ourselves. It's not always easy, but as long as we have the freedom to
aspire, we can make that choice.
My biggest concern about the current Democratic party philosophy, and
particularly that of Obama, is that, if elected, we are going to rely more
on government to cure our middle class problems. This will, by default,
further classify us, average us, and take away the incentives of individual
initiative. In other words, another giant step towards socialism.

I am firmly convinced that Obama is an unannounced socialist, BTW.

Eisboch


You are not middle class, Einstein, and you clearly have no clue as to
what the middle class is faced with.

McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
 

On Sep 14, 12:13*pm, "Eisboch" wrote:
"wf3h" wrote in message

...
On Sep 14, 8:53 am, "Eisboch" wrote:





"wf3h" wrote in message
news:28a17e74-ce4b-455d-b265-

the BIG difference is that NONE of my income is from capital gains!!
how much of middle class income do you think comes from capital gains?
that's EXACTLY why the rich set up this system...so they wouldnt have
to pay taxes, knowing full well that most of THEIR income is from
capital gains, while middle class income comes from actually WORKING
for a living

---------------------------------

It's amazing to me to witness the different views of capital gains and
capital gains taxes.

Some see it your way. Others see the reduction of the capital gains
penalty (taxes) as a means to encourage investment into the general
economy
which, turns out, promotes growth, employment and new opportunities.

and others see that an honest day's work for an honest day's pay is an
honorable thing...except for the 'capital gains' class of folks who,
in their elitist mindset, sneer at honest labor and don't think the
middle class deserves even to be PAID for their work



The fact that you have never figured out how to take advantage of it
doesn't
mean it's bad for all.

the fact you think the middle class is a bunch of morons speaks for
itself.

-------------------------------------------------------------

I am a member of the middle class. * I am not a moron.

you may be middle class. but you are DEFINITELY a moron, with your
belief in the tooth fairy

*I am also realistic
and knowledgeable enough to know that a growing world global economy was
being talked about by AGore, back in the early 90's, and the changes it
would have on the US job market and economy.

well, i guess this must be true. after all, you said it and you
believe it.

You have to prepare for and adjust to the times, not wait until your job
disappears and then waste all your time and energy complaining about it.


oh brother...no one knows what this means. again, you're spinning
fairy tales.

McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
 

On Sep 14, 2:56*pm, "Eisboch" wrote:

So, I go about making a living. *Like most, I worked hard and took advantage
of opportunities. *But one thing I *never* did was complain about those that
had more than I, nor did I envy them or the "rich". *

WHOA tall dark stranger. NO ONE is comlaining about those who have
'more than i'. what i'm complaining about is complacent idiots like
you who place all blame on the middle class, on unions, etc. and
completely exculpate the enrons, the bear stearns, the oil
companies...the numerous companies that lay off hundreds of thousands
of people...destroy whole communities

THEN bribe politicians to keep health care private, little or no re-
education funding, etc. you're in incompetent shill who just loves a
good fairy tale.

My point is that I subscribe to and fully support the freedoms we have to
pursue any level of achievement, financial or otherwise that we set for
ourselves. *It's not always easy, but as long as we have the freedom to
aspire, we can make that choice.

really?

then, pray tell, why are virtually no students admitted to ivy league
schools from working class families? what do you do with places like
findlay, ohio, or pittsburgh that are wiped out by corporate
abandoment?

why are the right to work states also those with the highest
illiteracy, highest rates of teen pregancy, lowest wages, etc. why do
those who believe as YOU do wind up at the bottom end of the economic
ladder, all the while telling us how successful they are?


My biggest concern about the current Democratic party philosophy, and
particularly that of Obama, is that, if elected, we are going to rely more
on government to cure our middle class problems.

ROFLMAO!! hey moron..it seems to work for the rich. everytime the RICH
get into trouble, they tell us that they're too important to
fail...witness bear stearns. THEN they rely on the GOP and the govt to
cure THEIR problems

you, with your fairy tale mentality, can't handle that. it blows your
fuse to even consider it. you're a socialist. you're just too dumb to
realize the socialism you're in favor of is socialism for the rich.


*This will, by default,
further classify us, average us, and take away the incentives of individual
initiative. * In other words, another giant step towards socialism.

I am firmly convinced that Obama is an unannounced socialist, BTW.

well, then...you and he have something in common, because, so are you.

McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
 

On Sep 14, 2:33*pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"wf3h" wrote in message

untouched for a long period of time. And those capitol gains can only be
written off up to the the capitol losses + $1000.

my heart bleeds for them.

Huge part of the middle class gets the benifits of Capitol gains taxes.

and everyone gets benefits from the middle class having a living wage
and living in economically stable communities. you, however, seem to
ignore that.


Fact is, everybody gets the bennies. *If you invest in a business or stock
ownership, and do not day trade, you get the benifit. *And most of the
middle class is invested in the stock market one way of the other. *Plus the
point of capitol gains is to get CAPITOL invested.

first of all, it's not CAPITOL gains, it's CAPITAL gains.

and the rich get the benefit of having a stable country when the
middle class is stable...unless you want the US to wind up like
mexico. that country give the GOP an orgasm. about 15 families own
the country and everyone else works for dogmeat wages.

perfect mccain territory.

*All those jobs created
in the last at least 1000 years are from some person investing capitol and
time in a business. *I owned a business at one time and the employees were
very happy to have a job and get a paycheck each week.

and if they kidnapped a member of your family for ransom...as is
common in mexico...would you be telling us how wonderful it is that
they earn a slave wage?


As to Obama saying he is
going to cut taxes for 95% of the people. *Impossible. *Only 45% pay income
tax in the first place.

absolutely wrong. leo bartels of princeton university has just
published a book showing that wages grow under democratic presidents
faster than they do under GOP presidents.


*You have to elect legislators who do not waste
money. *And the Republicans with the help of the Dem's over 7 of the last 8
years have wasted lots. *The Dem's in charge of the checkbook the last year,
and they have not slowed down waste. *40 of the last 50 years have been
Dem's in charge of the checkbook. *

and the 2 biggest spenders in US history?

GOP presidents ronald 'i'm senile but everything is OK' reagan, and
george 'what, me worry?' bush.

McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
 

On Sep 14, 3:03*pm, "Eisboch" wrote:
"Calif Bill" wrote in message

...



*As to Obama saying he is going to cut taxes for 95% of the people.
Impossible. *Only 45% pay income tax in the first place.

You just said a mouthful.

He's really describing another form of government, namely Socialism.


you're a socialist. why are you opposed to him being one?

McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
 

wrote in message
...


You are not middle class, Einstein, and you clearly have no clue as to
what the middle class is faced with.


Absolute BS. Sorry.

But, it's interesting, in a sad way.

Eisboch

McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
 

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 12:33:49 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

Plus the
point of capitol gains is to get CAPITOL invested.

You mean capital. Capitol is a building, or a city.

Casady

McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
 

"wf3h" wrote in message
...

On Sep 14, 2:56 pm, "Eisboch" wrote:

So, I go about making a living. Like most, I worked hard and took
advantage
of opportunities. But one thing I *never* did was complain about those
that
had more than I, nor did I envy them or the "rich".

WHOA tall dark stranger. NO ONE is comlaining about those who have
'more than i'. what i'm complaining about is complacent idiots like
you who place all blame on the middle class, on unions, etc. and
completely exculpate the enrons, the bear stearns, the oil
companies...the numerous companies that lay off hundreds of thousands
of people...destroy whole communities

THEN bribe politicians to keep health care private, little or no re-
education funding, etc. you're in incompetent shill who just loves a
good fairy tale.

My point is that I subscribe to and fully support the freedoms we have to
pursue any level of achievement, financial or otherwise that we set for
ourselves. It's not always easy, but as long as we have the freedom to
aspire, we can make that choice.

really?

then, pray tell, why are virtually no students admitted to ivy league
schools from working class families? what do you do with places like
findlay, ohio, or pittsburgh that are wiped out by corporate
abandoment?

why are the right to work states also those with the highest
illiteracy, highest rates of teen pregancy, lowest wages, etc. why do
those who believe as YOU do wind up at the bottom end of the economic
ladder, all the while telling us how successful they are?


My biggest concern about the current Democratic party philosophy, and
particularly that of Obama, is that, if elected, we are going to rely more
on government to cure our middle class problems.

ROFLMAO!! hey moron..it seems to work for the rich. everytime the RICH
get into trouble, they tell us that they're too important to
fail...witness bear stearns. THEN they rely on the GOP and the govt to
cure THEIR problems

you, with your fairy tale mentality, can't handle that. it blows your
fuse to even consider it. you're a socialist. you're just too dumb to
realize the socialism you're in favor of is socialism for the rich.


This will, by default,
further classify us, average us, and take away the incentives of
individual
initiative. In other words, another giant step towards socialism.

I am firmly convinced that Obama is an unannounced socialist, BTW.

well, then...you and he have something in common, because, so are you.

------------------------------

People never cease to amaze me in how they can take words and twist them
around to satisfy their positions. And then, for added emphasis, have to
call others "morons", "dumbfochs", "idiots" and on and on ad nauseum.

Have fun .... I am out.

Eisboch

McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...

As to Obama saying he is going to cut taxes for 95% of the people.
Impossible. Only 45% pay income tax in the first place.


You just said a mouthful.

He's really describing another form of government, namely Socialism.

All his speeches, writings and comments drip of the signals. If he is
elected and the Dems truly get control of the Congress, we are in for some
major "Changes".

Eisboch

I hope so. Anything would be better than the bull**** we have seen for the
last 8 years that, evidently, dumbasses like you have supported. In case you
have been blindered by the propaganda, Bush has made every effort to make
our republic into a dictatorship. Try your fear tactics somewhere else.

McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
 

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 13:15:13 -0700, Fred J. McCall
wrote:

Peter Skelton wrote:

:On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 08:55:18 -0700, Fred J. McCall
wrote:
:
:Peter Skelton wrote:
:
::On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 22:00:23 -0700, Fred J. McCall
wrote:
::
::Taxes based on income should be flat. They distort the economy the
::least that way and allow it to function closer to its optimum levels.
::
::
::That, of course, is a religious statement, devoid of proof and
::unprovable.
::
:
:No, Peter, that is a basic fact, as you would know if you knew
:anything at all about Economics.
:
:Another religious statement, followed by a flat lie. If you have
:a proof, show it.
:

No 'religious' statement and no lie.

Where and when did you get your degree in economics, Peter?

So now you're attempting to appeal to expertisde gained in your
time in the seminary? Religious statement followed by lie, as I
said.

One can find economists who agree with Fred on this, and others
who don't. It is trivial to prove that, in a very low income
society, a flat tax doesn't work. It's also not hard to prove
that, in a very high income society, it's the best. As there is
no proven definition for high or low income in the context of
these theories, and no way to prove such a definition belief in
their application to the US is religious, not scientific.


Peter Skelton

McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
 

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 13:17:45 -0700, Fred J. McCall
wrote:

Peter Skelton wrote:

:On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 09:02:22 -0700, Fred J. McCall
wrote:
:
:"Eisboch" wrote:
:
::
::"wf3h" wrote in message news:28a17e74-ce4b-455d-b265-
::
::the BIG difference is that NONE of my income is from capital gains!!
::how much of middle class income do you think comes from capital gains?
::
:
:Start taxing capital gains at an even more confiscatory level and see
:just what happens to "much of middle class" retirement.
:
::
::that's EXACTLY why the rich set up this system...so they wouldnt have
::to pay taxes, knowing full well that most of THEIR income is from
::capital gains, while middle class income comes from actually WORKING
::for a living
::
:
:Yes, the wealthy never do anything, do they? Makes you wonder how
:they got and stayed wealthy...
:
::
::---------------------------------
::
::It's amazing to me to witness the different views of capital gains and
::capital gains taxes.
::
::Some see it your way. Others see the reduction of the capital gains
::penalty (taxes) as a means to encourage investment into the general economy
::which, turns out, promotes growth, employment and new opportunities.
::
::The fact that you have never figured out how to take advantage of it doesn't
::mean it's bad for all.
::
:
:In point of fact, capital gains is a PUNITIVE tax. The rich didn't
:put it in place. Morons like Eisboch did.
:
:Bull**** Fred.
:

Bull**** yourself, Peter.

:
:Capital gains are income,
:

Which has already been taxed once before it gets treated as capital
gains.

No Fred. The entity being taxed is the one having the income, it
has not yet been taxed.
:
:you are a believer in
:flat tax aren't you?
:

Define what YOU mean by 'flat tax' and perhaps we could see.

You brought up the term, if you have some special meaning, you
define it.

But you're too busy being insulting and squealing to hold a real
conversation with...

:
:Flat tax is an especially odious form of voodoo economics.
:

Thus speaks ignorance...

So you've never studied economics?


Peter Skelton

McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
 

On Sep 12, 8:16*pm, WaIIy wrote:
On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 20:00:09 -0400, "Raymond O'Hara"





wrote:

"Tiger" wrote in message
...
Raymond O'Hara wrote:
"David E. Powell" wrote in message
....

Baba Wawa acted like her servants delivered her cold coffee or
something. What a maroon.

she acted like the lournalist she used to be and asked tough questions
and she refused to accept pat bull**** answers

The View, home of great journalism??? Sorry, but when I hear make dumb as
comments about Slavery from Whoopi, you lose all credibilty. Those hags
have a agenda as left as yours......

we aren't talking about whoopi, we are talking about barbara walters. she is
still a highly respected journalist

Keyword - "Used to be"

she asked hard right to the point questions and he tried to lie his way out
of it. and barbara didn't let him.
and a lot of women watch the view, it is a very highly rated show.

I agree - in the nursing homes and prisons.



make all the sexist jokes you want but mccain had a bad time of it in front
of an important demographic.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

replied to so as to save for archive.

McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
 

Roy Blankenship wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...
As to Obama saying he is going to cut taxes for 95% of the people.
Impossible. Only 45% pay income tax in the first place.

You just said a mouthful.

He's really describing another form of government, namely Socialism.

All his speeches, writings and comments drip of the signals. If he is
elected and the Dems truly get control of the Congress, we are in for some
major "Changes".

Eisboch

I hope so. Anything would be better than the bull**** we have seen for the
last 8 years that, evidently, dumbasses like you have supported. In case you
have been blindered by the propaganda, Bush has made every effort to make
our republic into a dictatorship. Try your fear tactics somewhere else.

I guess personal responsibility and self sufficiency is lost on a
majority of the US population. Soft and lazy and always with your hand
out for another crumb from the government.

McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
 

wf3h wrote:


then, pray tell, why are virtually no students admitted to ivy league
schools from working class families? what do you do with places like
findlay, ohio, or pittsburgh that are wiped out by corporate
abandoment?

I hate to tell you, but Ivy League schools are FULL of middle class
families. My father, definitely working class went to Yale, myself and
my son are definitely middle class graduated from Columbia. Since the
60's, Ivy League schools don't discriminate due to income, and the
economic demographics of an Ivy League school represent the economic
demographics of America. Ivy League schools will actually give working
and poor students academic considerations they don't give to middle
class and above students to make sure they do have a balanced class.
Sure there are many wealthy at the schools, but the middle class,
working class and below are the majority of those attending Ivy League
today. Starting 2 years after my son started school, all admitting
freshman whose family income was below $75,000 got a 100% scholarship.

Your understanding of Ivy League schools is a complete as your
understanding of world economics.


This will, by default,
further classify us, average us, and take away the incentives of individual
initiative. In other words, another giant step towards socialism.

I am firmly convinced that Obama is an unannounced socialist, BTW.

well, then...you and he have something in common, because, so are you.

McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
 

"BAR" wrote in message
. ..
Roy Blankenship wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...
As to Obama saying he is going to cut taxes for 95% of the people.
Impossible. Only 45% pay income tax in the first place.

You just said a mouthful.

He's really describing another form of government, namely Socialism.

All his speeches, writings and comments drip of the signals. If he is
elected and the Dems truly get control of the Congress, we are in for
some
major "Changes".

Eisboch

I hope so. Anything would be better than the bull**** we have seen for
the
last 8 years that, evidently, dumbasses like you have supported. In case
you
have been blindered by the propaganda, Bush has made every effort to
make
our republic into a dictatorship. Try your fear tactics somewhere else.

I guess personal responsibility and self sufficiency is lost on a
majority of the US population. Soft and lazy and always with your hand
out for another crumb from the government.

I totally disagree. If you looked at the real numbers spent on social
welfare, it amounts to 3 B2 bombers.
You only believe what you wrote because people with hate agendas are trying
to point the finger at someone so you have a place to focus your anger
instead of realizing the government is the one ripping YOU off. How much of
your tax money goes to feeding kids every month? What would you think? 50
cents? A dollar? And you think that is an issue? Our "great" country has
been brought to its knees by whom? Poor people? Meanwhile, the Iraqi
government has a surplus of cash, yet we are still footing the bill for this
"war".

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/06/wo...rssnyt&emc=rss

McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
 

Roy Blankenship wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
. ..
Roy Blankenship wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...
As to Obama saying he is going to cut taxes for 95% of the people.
Impossible. Only 45% pay income tax in the first place.
You just said a mouthful.

He's really describing another form of government, namely Socialism.

All his speeches, writings and comments drip of the signals. If he is
elected and the Dems truly get control of the Congress, we are in for
some
major "Changes".

Eisboch
I hope so. Anything would be better than the bull**** we have seen for
the
last 8 years that, evidently, dumbasses like you have supported. In case
you
have been blindered by the propaganda, Bush has made every effort to
make
our republic into a dictatorship. Try your fear tactics somewhere else.
I guess personal responsibility and self sufficiency is lost on a
majority of the US population. Soft and lazy and always with your hand
out for another crumb from the government.

I totally disagree. If you looked at the real numbers spent on social
welfare, it amounts to 3 B2 bombers.
a
href="http://www.libraryindex.com/pages/72/How-Much-Does-Nation-Spend-on-Welfare.html"How
Much Does the Nation Spend on Welfare? - Public Aid, State Expenditures
For Social Welfare, Private Welfare Expenditures, Welfare-reform
Legislation/a

You only believe what you wrote because people with hate agendas are trying
to point the finger at someone so you have a place to focus your anger
instead of realizing the government is the one ripping YOU off. How much of
your tax money goes to feeding kids every month? What would you think? 50
cents? A dollar? And you think that is an issue? Our "great" country has
been brought to its knees by whom? Poor people? Meanwhile, the Iraqi
government has a surplus of cash, yet we are still footing the bill for this
"war".

I would rather that my money only go to constitutionally mandated
expenditures.


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/06/wo...rssnyt&emc=rss

McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
 

"BAR" wrote in message
. ..
Roy Blankenship wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
. ..
Roy Blankenship wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...
As to Obama saying he is going to cut taxes for 95% of the people.
Impossible. Only 45% pay income tax in the first place.
You just said a mouthful.

He's really describing another form of government, namely Socialism.

All his speeches, writings and comments drip of the signals. If he
is
elected and the Dems truly get control of the Congress, we are in for
some
major "Changes".

Eisboch
I hope so. Anything would be better than the bull**** we have seen for
the
last 8 years that, evidently, dumbasses like you have supported. In
case
you
have been blindered by the propaganda, Bush has made every effort to
make
our republic into a dictatorship. Try your fear tactics somewhere
else.
I guess personal responsibility and self sufficiency is lost on a
majority of the US population. Soft and lazy and always with your hand
out for another crumb from the government.

I totally disagree. If you looked at the real numbers spent on social
welfare, it amounts to 3 B2 bombers.
a

href="http://www.libraryindex.com/pages/72/How-Much-Does-Nation-Spend-on-Wel
fare.html"How
Much Does the Nation Spend on Welfare? - Public Aid, State Expenditures
For Social Welfare, Private Welfare Expenditures, Welfare-reform
Legislation/a

You only believe what you wrote because people with hate agendas are
trying
to point the finger at someone so you have a place to focus your anger
instead of realizing the government is the one ripping YOU off. How much
of
your tax money goes to feeding kids every month? What would you think?
50
cents? A dollar? And you think that is an issue? Our "great" country
has
been brought to its knees by whom? Poor people? Meanwhile, the Iraqi
government has a surplus of cash, yet we are still footing the bill for
this
"war".

I would rather that my money only go to constitutionally mandated
expenditures.

Thankfully, selfish pricks like you are a minority in this country. Get over
yourself.

McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
 

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 06:16:40 -0700, wf3h wrote:

On Sep 14, 12:03*am, Curly Surmudgeon wrote:


Precisely, everyone should pay an equal tax.

'equal' does not necessarily mean 'fair'. you were right the 1st time:
everyone should pay a fair tax

*Any disparity, any
exclusion, deduction, exemption, credit, or dependency allowance creates
special interests and an inequity.

that's true. and we, as a society, have decided that things like raising
kinds, health insurance, having a viable middle class, are values that we
want to promote via having them as special interests. and that is fair.

Via legalized theft. Do not expect the victim to remain passively silent.

--
Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I Love Republicans, They Taste Just Like Chickenhawks
------------------------------------------------------------------------------




.................................................. ...............
Posted via TITANnews - Uncensored Newsgroups Access
at http://www.TitanNews.com
-=Every Newsgroup - Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
 

Roy Blankenship wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
. ..
Roy Blankenship wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
. ..
Roy Blankenship wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...
As to Obama saying he is going to cut taxes for 95% of the people.
Impossible. Only 45% pay income tax in the first place.
You just said a mouthful.

He's really describing another form of government, namely Socialism.

All his speeches, writings and comments drip of the signals. If he
is
elected and the Dems truly get control of the Congress, we are in for
some
major "Changes".

Eisboch
I hope so. Anything would be better than the bull**** we have seen for
the
last 8 years that, evidently, dumbasses like you have supported. In
case
you
have been blindered by the propaganda, Bush has made every effort to
make
our republic into a dictatorship. Try your fear tactics somewhere
else.
I guess personal responsibility and self sufficiency is lost on a
majority of the US population. Soft and lazy and always with your hand
out for another crumb from the government.
I totally disagree. If you looked at the real numbers spent on social
welfare, it amounts to 3 B2 bombers.
a

href="http://www.libraryindex.com/pages/72/How-Much-Does-Nation-Spend-on-Wel
fare.html"How
Much Does the Nation Spend on Welfare? - Public Aid, State Expenditures
For Social Welfare, Private Welfare Expenditures, Welfare-reform
Legislation/a

You only believe what you wrote because people with hate agendas are
trying
to point the finger at someone so you have a place to focus your anger
instead of realizing the government is the one ripping YOU off. How much
of
your tax money goes to feeding kids every month? What would you think?
50
cents? A dollar? And you think that is an issue? Our "great" country
has
been brought to its knees by whom? Poor people? Meanwhile, the Iraqi
government has a surplus of cash, yet we are still footing the bill for
this
"war".
I would rather that my money only go to constitutionally mandated
expenditures.

Thankfully, selfish pricks like you are a minority in this country. Get over
yourself.

You are free to give your money to any one or any organization you
choose. Why won't you extend me the same courtesy?

McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
 

"Roy Blankenship" wrote in message
m...

"BAR" wrote in message
. ..
Roy Blankenship wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
. ..
Roy Blankenship wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...
As to Obama saying he is going to cut taxes for 95% of the people.
Impossible. Only 45% pay income tax in the first place.
You just said a mouthful.

He's really describing another form of government, namely Socialism.

All his speeches, writings and comments drip of the signals. If he
is
elected and the Dems truly get control of the Congress, we are in
for
some
major "Changes".

Eisboch
I hope so. Anything would be better than the bull**** we have seen
for
the
last 8 years that, evidently, dumbasses like you have supported. In
case
you
have been blindered by the propaganda, Bush has made every effort to
make
our republic into a dictatorship. Try your fear tactics somewhere
else.
I guess personal responsibility and self sufficiency is lost on a
majority of the US population. Soft and lazy and always with your hand
out for another crumb from the government.

I totally disagree. If you looked at the real numbers spent on social
welfare, it amounts to 3 B2 bombers.
a

href="http://www.libraryindex.com/pages/72/How-Much-Does-Nation-Spend-on-Wel
fare.html"How
Much Does the Nation Spend on Welfare? - Public Aid, State Expenditures
For Social Welfare, Private Welfare Expenditures, Welfare-reform
Legislation/a

You only believe what you wrote because people with hate agendas are
trying
to point the finger at someone so you have a place to focus your anger
instead of realizing the government is the one ripping YOU off. How
much
of
your tax money goes to feeding kids every month? What would you think?
50
cents? A dollar? And you think that is an issue? Our "great" country
has
been brought to its knees by whom? Poor people? Meanwhile, the Iraqi
government has a surplus of cash, yet we are still footing the bill for
this
"war".

I would rather that my money only go to constitutionally mandated
expenditures.

Thankfully, selfish pricks like you are a minority in this country. Get
over
yourself.


He can't.
Ask Bertie (BAR) how much money he makes. He'll boast & brag about that at
the drop of a hat.

McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
 

Don White wrote:
"Roy Blankenship" wrote in message
m...
"BAR" wrote in message
. ..
Roy Blankenship wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
. ..
Roy Blankenship wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...
As to Obama saying he is going to cut taxes for 95% of the people.
Impossible. Only 45% pay income tax in the first place.
You just said a mouthful.

He's really describing another form of government, namely Socialism.

All his speeches, writings and comments drip of the signals. If he
is
elected and the Dems truly get control of the Congress, we are in
for
some
major "Changes".

Eisboch
I hope so. Anything would be better than the bull**** we have seen
for
the
last 8 years that, evidently, dumbasses like you have supported. In
case
you
have been blindered by the propaganda, Bush has made every effort to
make
our republic into a dictatorship. Try your fear tactics somewhere
else.
I guess personal responsibility and self sufficiency is lost on a
majority of the US population. Soft and lazy and always with your hand
out for another crumb from the government.
I totally disagree. If you looked at the real numbers spent on social
welfare, it amounts to 3 B2 bombers.
a

href="http://www.libraryindex.com/pages/72/How-Much-Does-Nation-Spend-on-Wel
fare.html"How
Much Does the Nation Spend on Welfare? - Public Aid, State Expenditures
For Social Welfare, Private Welfare Expenditures, Welfare-reform
Legislation/a

You only believe what you wrote because people with hate agendas are
trying
to point the finger at someone so you have a place to focus your anger
instead of realizing the government is the one ripping YOU off. How
much
of
your tax money goes to feeding kids every month? What would you think?
50
cents? A dollar? And you think that is an issue? Our "great" country
has
been brought to its knees by whom? Poor people? Meanwhile, the Iraqi
government has a surplus of cash, yet we are still footing the bill for
this
"war".
I would rather that my money only go to constitutionally mandated
expenditures.
Thankfully, selfish pricks like you are a minority in this country. Get
over
yourself.


He can't.
Ask Bertie (BAR) how much money he makes. He'll boast & brag about that at
the drop of a hat.




But...he won't actually tell you the amount... :)
Not that anyone gives a ****.

Bertie is a selfisb, "I've got mine, screw you" Republican gasbag, just
like his golf buddy, Herring.

McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...

As to Obama saying he is going to cut taxes for 95% of the people.
Impossible. Only 45% pay income tax in the first place.


You just said a mouthful.

He's really describing another form of government, namely Socialism.

All his speeches, writings and comments drip of the signals. If he is
elected and the Dems truly get control of the Congress, we are in for
some major "Changes".

Eisboch


Damn! did it again. I sure wish the "a" hole that started this cross
posting .... hadn't.

Eisboch


But is at least more interesting than the Cut and Paste the "a" hole that
started this cross posting posts.

McCain Lies His Way Thru Interview
 

Calif Bill wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...
As to Obama saying he is going to cut taxes for 95% of the people.
Impossible. Only 45% pay income tax in the first place.

You just said a mouthful.

He's really describing another form of government, namely Socialism.

All his speeches, writings and comments drip of the signals. If he is
elected and the Dems truly get control of the Congress, we are in for
some major "Changes".

Eisboch

Damn! did it again. I sure wish the "a" hole that started this cross
posting .... hadn't.

Eisboch


But is at least more interesting than the Cut and Paste the "a" hole that
started this cross posting posts.




Yugo, Zell.