Gotta admit ...
 

Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 19:07:10 -0400, "D.Duck" wrote:
I still don't think there are as many union electricians and plumbers making
you would like everyone believe. But now you spin it to *specialty
welders*.

Had a union plumber out a couple months ago to replace the pump in my
Tramco lift system. The non-union guy I rejected told me the pump
itself cost $2300 but didn't give a labor estimate.
The union plumber, Peter, was actually seminary-trained - as a priest.
The pump cost was $900 he told me, and he spent about 5 hours working
and a couple hours driving here and back from Chicago.
Sat at the kitchen table to do the bill, put a finger on his chin to
figure the cost. Looked like a priest doing that.
$2100. I was happy.
You figure the hourly on that.
Couple days ago the pump started making noise, so I have to get him
back out here. Damn.

--Vic


I have a female union electrician acquaintance out in San Francisco who
operates the electrical system at a plant. She makes $40+ an hour plus
fringes. Six years ago, she was a college-degreed bookkeeper and bored,
bored, bored. I met her in the first year of her apprenticeship.

That's $1600 a week without OT.

Gotta admit ...
 

"hk" wrote in message
. ..

Just to clarify, in addition to optical thin film engineers and
technicians, the company also had (still has) many skilled welders,
fabricators, machinists, electricians, general assembly people, plus a
full staff of mechanical, electrical, software engineers and CAD
designers.

This is why Harry's assumption that nobody can possibly know more about
non union workplaces than him is so empty. He has really had a very
narrow exposure to the overall American workforce, despite his claims.

Eisboch


How many of the non-degreed fellows at that plant are making $37 an hour
in the envelope, plus pension and health benefits?


It has been several years since I had an idea of payscales, etc. All I can
say is that the company paid competitive salaries/hourly rates, had a 401
type pension plan to which the company made a varying contribution,
depending on how well we were doing, had an excellent Blue Cross health plan
for which the company paid 75% of the premiums and a dental plan with the
same company contribution. We also picked up the tab for continued
technical education, if it was pertinent to the employee's responsibilities
at the company.

It must have been ok because our turnover rate was virtually zero. We did
lose one welder to the "Big Dig" because they were offering pay/overtime
packages at the time that were way out of whack with industry. The welder
came back though, after a year of busting his ass, working night shifts plus
overtime. It wasn't worth it to him.

We also had a close knit, teamwork culture. Quite often during the summer,
on nice weekends, we would simply shut the place down at noontime on Fridays
and let everyone enjoy a longer than normal weekend at home. They were
fully paid for the day of course.

And, when the company was sold the first time, every employee shared in the
financial rewards, based on a formula I came up with. Basically, each
employee got a thousand bucks for every month or part of a month he or she
had worked for the company.
Several people received enough to pay off house mortgages, or move up to
larger homes, as they had over 11 years at the company.

My son and I bought the company back several years later when the buyers
determined the business was not in line with future plans. (They were,
themselves the subject of an acquisition).

My son ran the company for the past 5 years. Lightning struck twice and
again, it became a desirable acquisition by a globally based, high tech
organization.

The financial rewards of the recent sale were also shared proportionally
with all employees, most of whom had also received a share of the first
sale. None of the employees who received either or both benefits were
shareholders.

I am very, very proud of the company I had, the work ethic of the employees
and their loyalty, sense of teamwork and quality of the systems we produced.
Our customers shared that viewpoint.

So, being union at whatever per hour isn't the answer to everything.


Eisboch

Gotta admit ...
 

Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 14:50:36 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Tell Gene his shop guys don't have decent jobs.
Tell Eisboch his shop guys don't have decent jobs.
Ask them if the gov should do their best to keep those jobs here.
Tell my son the truck suspension guy he doesn't have a decent job.
Go right ahead.

Gene's guys work on aircraft and/or are machinists. Both require
high skill levels.

Eisboch's (former) guys did complex optics and vacuum deposition work,
more highly skilled jobs.

I assume your son is a skilled mechanic working on truck suspensions?

All of those jobs are a far cry from assembly line work, and for the
most part they can never be exported, just like construction work.
That does not necessarily mean that their pay will approach the
inflated levels of Detroit auto workers however.

With regard to exporting IT jobs to India, I think that we'd both
agree that only relatively large projects make sense. The smaller
work will always stay here close to the business.


Don't bet on it.

Gotta admit ...
 

hk wrote:
D.Duck wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
...
D.Duck wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Eisboch wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 14:50:36 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Tell Gene his shop guys don't have decent jobs.
Tell Eisboch his shop guys don't have decent jobs.
Ask them if the gov should do their best to keep those jobs here.
Tell my son the truck suspension guy he doesn't have a decent job.
Go right ahead.
Gene's guys work on aircraft and/or are machinists. Both require
high skill levels.

Eisboch's (former) guys did complex optics and vacuum deposition
work,
more highly skilled jobs.

I assume your son is a skilled mechanic working on truck
suspensions?

Just to clarify, in addition to optical thin film engineers and
technicians, the company also had (still has) many skilled
welders, fabricators, machinists, electricians, general assembly
people, plus a full staff of mechanical, electrical, software
engineers and CAD designers.

This is why Harry's assumption that nobody can possibly know more
about non union workplaces than him is so empty. He has really
had a very narrow exposure to the overall American workforce,
despite his claims.

Eisboch
How many of the non-degreed fellows at that plant are making $37 an
hour in the envelope, plus pension and health benefits?
How many union guys are making $37 an hour in the envelope?

Construction workers? Lots. Not most, but lots.

My local has a call out for specialty welders for three to four years
of work at rates higher than that, plus the probability of
significant OT. The skills required for those jobs are way over my
pay rate, but...I'm glad to see the rate way up there.

Gosh...I'm amazed you even know what that term in the envelope means.


Believe it or not I was a Teamster at one time. I had to be a member
for my job during college selling/delivering 7-UP.

I still don't think there are as many union electricians and plumbers
making you would like everyone believe. But now you spin it to
*specialty welders*.



Not at all, I just happened to mention an entirely different trade. I
never said the $37 an hour jobs were under contracts negotiated by by
local.

You really need to get a little beyond Reggiethink.

BTW, I was a teamster two college summers. Made about $12.50 an hour
driving a fork lift truck inside a factory in Milford, CT. This was
around 1960-61. Year earlier, I made a bit less loading beer into trucks.

You were over-paid.

Gotta admit ...
 

"hk" wrote in message
...


BTW, I was a teamster two college summers. Made about $12.50 an hour
driving a fork lift truck inside a factory in Milford, CT. This was around
1960-61. Year earlier, I made a bit less loading beer into trucks.


My first summer job after high school and before starting college was
working for Bekins Moving and Storage,
loading and unloading furniture, pianos, etc. into and out of the moving
vans. $1.95 per hour. (1967)

I would have fallen over at $12.50 an hour, but ..... then again .... you
were *skilled* labor.

Eisboch

Gotta admit ...
 

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 19:24:37 -0400, hk wrote:


I have a female union electrician acquaintance out in San Francisco who
operates the electrical system at a plant. She makes $40+ an hour plus
fringes. Six years ago, she was a college-degreed bookkeeper and bored,
bored, bored. I met her in the first year of her apprenticeship.

That's $1600 a week without OT.

Don't think I mentioned this before, but after I got laid off from my
first IT job in '82 (Reagan Depression) I scrambled for odd-jobs.
Worked some house-painting with my brother, and some plumbing jobs
working for Roy, a son of my neighbor.
Roy was working to get a union ticket, but didn't really need it.
Never saw such an energetic hustler as him.
He was doing apartment buildings on the north side, replacing the
clogged galvanized with copper.
What I did mostly was sawz-alling through plumbing walls and pipe and
replacing fixtures. Some digging when we did sewer tile.
We was giving me 10 bucks an hour.
Roy did the brain work - sweating joints.
Big apartment buildings, mostly 12-flats.
One day we're laying side by side in the apartment building owner's
bathroom. I was replacing the toilet stop valve and he was doing the
sink's.
He took off a valve and maybe a half cup of clean water flowed out
flow a saturated anti-hammer leg.
I saw the water heading on the floor for the very nice rug, but Roy
reached up and grabbed a washcloth and laid it on the tiles to stop
it from hitting the carpet. Sure, he should have had a rag.
The owner walks in, and she blows up when she sees her "guest"
washcloth on the floor.
Like a bitch from hell she tears into Roy about it.
I was surprised how that got her off her rocker.
Anyway, she finally leaves and I look at Roy and he looks at me.
He just smiled and said,
"That was a hundred bucks. Easy."
Be nice to your plumber.

--Vic

Gotta admit ...
 

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 19:24:37 -0400, hk wrote:


I have a female union electrician acquaintance out in San Francisco who
operates the electrical system at a plant. She makes $40+ an hour plus
fringes. Six years ago, she was a college-degreed bookkeeper and bored,
bored, bored. I met her in the first year of her apprenticeship.

That's $1600 a week without OT.

Don't think I mentioned this before, but after I got laid off from my
first IT job in '82 (Reagan Depression) I scrambled for odd-jobs.
Worked some house-painting with my brother, and some plumbing jobs
working for Roy, a son of my neighbor.
Roy was working to get a union ticket, but didn't really need it.
Never saw such an energetic hustler as him.
He was doing apartment buildings on the north side, replacing the
clogged galvanized with copper.
What I did mostly was sawz-alling through plumbing walls and pipe and
replacing fixtures. Some digging when we did sewer tile.
We was giving me 10 bucks an hour.
Roy did the brain work - sweating joints.
Big apartment buildings, mostly 12-flats.
One day we're laying side by side in the apartment building owner's
bathroom. I was replacing the toilet stop valve and he was doing the
sink's.
He took off a valve and maybe a half cup of clean water flowed out
flow a saturated anti-hammer leg.
I saw the water heading on the floor for the very nice rug, but Roy
reached up and grabbed a washcloth and laid it on the tiles to stop
it from hitting the carpet. Sure, he should have had a rag.
The owner walks in, and she blows up when she sees her "guest"
washcloth on the floor.
Like a bitch from hell she tears into Roy about it.
I was surprised how that got her off her rocker.
Anyway, she finally leaves and I look at Roy and he looks at me.
He just smiled and said,
"That was a hundred bucks. Easy."
Be nice to your plumber.

--Vic


Now a *union* plumber wouldn't do that. 8)

Gotta admit ...
 

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 19:16:54 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:


"Vic Smith" wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:25:40 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:



We both know that millions of Americans and Canadians would love to have
$50K manufacturing jobs with half decent benefits and something of a
stable
future.

I hear what you're saying, Don, but...I really don't care about the
Canadian economy. I avoid Canadian built GM vehicles.
You guys should stick to providing fish and running lodges up there.

--Vic

You do realize that you'd be freezing in the dark if it wasn't for
Canadian
oil, natural gas , hydro electricity etc etc.

Okay. I take it all back.

--Vic

What gets me is how quick some Americans are to blame their problems on
Canada, when you ran a hugh deficit with Japan for years and now China.

Gotta admit ...
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"hk" wrote in message
. ..

Just to clarify, in addition to optical thin film engineers and
technicians, the company also had (still has) many skilled welders,
fabricators, machinists, electricians, general assembly people, plus a
full staff of mechanical, electrical, software engineers and CAD
designers.

This is why Harry's assumption that nobody can possibly know more about
non union workplaces than him is so empty. He has really had a very
narrow exposure to the overall American workforce, despite his claims.

Eisboch


How many of the non-degreed fellows at that plant are making $37 an hour
in the envelope, plus pension and health benefits?


It has been several years since I had an idea of payscales, etc. All I
can say is that the company paid competitive salaries/hourly rates, had a
401 type pension plan to which the company made a varying contribution,
depending on how well we were doing, had an excellent Blue Cross health
plan for which the company paid 75% of the premiums and a dental plan with
the same company contribution. We also picked up the tab for continued
technical education, if it was pertinent to the employee's
responsibilities at the company.

It must have been ok because our turnover rate was virtually zero. We
did lose one welder to the "Big Dig" because they were offering
pay/overtime packages at the time that were way out of whack with
industry. The welder came back though, after a year of busting his ass,
working night shifts plus overtime. It wasn't worth it to him.

We also had a close knit, teamwork culture. Quite often during the
summer, on nice weekends, we would simply shut the place down at noontime
on Fridays and let everyone enjoy a longer than normal weekend at home.
They were fully paid for the day of course.

And, when the company was sold the first time, every employee shared in
the financial rewards, based on a formula I came up with. Basically, each
employee got a thousand bucks for every month or part of a month he or she
had worked for the company.
Several people received enough to pay off house mortgages, or move up to
larger homes, as they had over 11 years at the company.

My son and I bought the company back several years later when the buyers
determined the business was not in line with future plans. (They were,
themselves the subject of an acquisition).

My son ran the company for the past 5 years. Lightning struck twice and
again, it became a desirable acquisition by a globally based, high tech
organization.

The financial rewards of the recent sale were also shared proportionally
with all employees, most of whom had also received a share of the first
sale. None of the employees who received either or both benefits were
shareholders.

I am very, very proud of the company I had, the work ethic of the
employees and their loyalty, sense of teamwork and quality of the systems
we produced. Our customers shared that viewpoint.

So, being union at whatever per hour isn't the answer to everything.


Eisboch


That's quite a story. Congratulations on running an excellent organization.

Gotta admit ...
 

"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
. ..
Don White wrote:
"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:26:11 -0400, hk wrote:

You have to realize that W'hine and Reggie aren't regular guys, and
have no connection to working men or women.
I can't speak for Reggie but in my case you have *no* idea what you
are talking about.

Harry has a long history of making 1000's of posts on subjects he has NO
idea what he is talking about. Why should this be any different?

I think he's pegged you pretty good over the years.
Come on out from hidding and we'll judge for ourselves.

Don, what do you want to know?


Your real name would be a good start and the line of work you did to build
your fortune..

Gotta admit ...
 

Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
...

BTW, I was a teamster two college summers. Made about $12.50 an hour
driving a fork lift truck inside a factory in Milford, CT. This was around
1960-61. Year earlier, I made a bit less loading beer into trucks.


My first summer job after high school and before starting college was
working for Bekins Moving and Storage,
loading and unloading furniture, pianos, etc. into and out of the moving
vans. $1.95 per hour. (1967)

I would have fallen over at $12.50 an hour, but ..... then again .... you
were *skilled* labor.

Eisboch



Naw. I was smart enough to get summer jobs where there was a strong union.

Gotta admit ...
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"hk" wrote in message
. ..

Just to clarify, in addition to optical thin film engineers and
technicians, the company also had (still has) many skilled welders,
fabricators, machinists, electricians, general assembly people, plus a
full staff of mechanical, electrical, software engineers and CAD
designers.

This is why Harry's assumption that nobody can possibly know more about
non union workplaces than him is so empty. He has really had a very
narrow exposure to the overall American workforce, despite his claims.

Eisboch


How many of the non-degreed fellows at that plant are making $37 an hour
in the envelope, plus pension and health benefits?


It has been several years since I had an idea of payscales, etc. All I
can say is that the company paid competitive salaries/hourly rates, had a
401 type pension plan to which the company made a varying contribution,
depending on how well we were doing, had an excellent Blue Cross health
plan for which the company paid 75% of the premiums and a dental plan with
the same company contribution. We also picked up the tab for continued
technical education, if it was pertinent to the employee's
responsibilities at the company.

It must have been ok because our turnover rate was virtually zero. We
did lose one welder to the "Big Dig" because they were offering
pay/overtime packages at the time that were way out of whack with
industry. The welder came back though, after a year of busting his ass,
working night shifts plus overtime. It wasn't worth it to him.

We also had a close knit, teamwork culture. Quite often during the
summer, on nice weekends, we would simply shut the place down at noontime
on Fridays and let everyone enjoy a longer than normal weekend at home.
They were fully paid for the day of course.

And, when the company was sold the first time, every employee shared in
the financial rewards, based on a formula I came up with. Basically, each
employee got a thousand bucks for every month or part of a month he or she
had worked for the company.
Several people received enough to pay off house mortgages, or move up to
larger homes, as they had over 11 years at the company.

My son and I bought the company back several years later when the buyers
determined the business was not in line with future plans. (They were,
themselves the subject of an acquisition).

My son ran the company for the past 5 years. Lightning struck twice and
again, it became a desirable acquisition by a globally based, high tech
organization.

The financial rewards of the recent sale were also shared proportionally
with all employees, most of whom had also received a share of the first
sale. None of the employees who received either or both benefits were
shareholders.

I am very, very proud of the company I had, the work ethic of the
employees and their loyalty, sense of teamwork and quality of the systems
we produced. Our customers shared that viewpoint.

So, being union at whatever per hour isn't the answer to everything.


Eisboch


If every workplace was as fair as yours...unions would be out of business.
I worked for a 'Crown Corporation' and in a big somewhat impersonal national
workplace always complaining about insufficient funds from the gov't, a
union to protect employees was and still is necessary.
I can guarantee you that by American standards, we weren't overpaid. One bad
period we went almost four years without a cost of living increase, and when
we did get increases it was always a struggle to stay even with inflation.

Gotta admit ...
 

"D.Duck" wrote in message
...



That's quite a story. Congratulations on running an excellent
organization.


It still is, although my son and I are now totally out of it.
That's why I bought the Limo. Need something to do. :-)


One of the best feelings, shared by one of the guys in the shop, was when,
after getting his unexpected benefit, he told me that he and his wife had
been putting every extra nickel away for years towards their daughter's
college fund, but every year the tuition costs had been going up, keeping
the pressure on. When he got his check, the whole problem went away and he
and his wife were able to splurge some of their years of savings on
themselves. It was fantastic.

Eisboch

Gotta admit ...
 

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 20:08:14 -0400, "D.Duck" wrote:




Now a *union* plumber wouldn't do that. 8)

Yeah, sure.
BTW when my seminary-trained union plumber came over to do the
job on my pump, I was "aiding" him where I could, out of habit.
After draining the tank with the pump he turned off the wall switch
and started to disconnect the wiring from the pump switch.
I said "Wait. Let me flip the breaker. I never trust those switches
being wired with the hot and ground right."
He said "Don't worry, the switch should be good enough."
He got zapped about 10 seconds later.
I flipped the breaker.
Man, I hate electricity.
Best advice I heard from an electrician is "Keep one hand in your
pocket."
Since I need 2 hands to work, that takes care of that.

--Vic

Gotta admit ...
 

Don White wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Just to clarify, in addition to optical thin film engineers and
technicians, the company also had (still has) many skilled welders,
fabricators, machinists, electricians, general assembly people, plus a
full staff of mechanical, electrical, software engineers and CAD
designers.

This is why Harry's assumption that nobody can possibly know more about
non union workplaces than him is so empty. He has really had a very
narrow exposure to the overall American workforce, despite his claims.

Eisboch

How many of the non-degreed fellows at that plant are making $37 an hour
in the envelope, plus pension and health benefits?

It has been several years since I had an idea of payscales, etc. All I
can say is that the company paid competitive salaries/hourly rates, had a
401 type pension plan to which the company made a varying contribution,
depending on how well we were doing, had an excellent Blue Cross health
plan for which the company paid 75% of the premiums and a dental plan with
the same company contribution. We also picked up the tab for continued
technical education, if it was pertinent to the employee's
responsibilities at the company.

It must have been ok because our turnover rate was virtually zero. We
did lose one welder to the "Big Dig" because they were offering
pay/overtime packages at the time that were way out of whack with
industry. The welder came back though, after a year of busting his ass,
working night shifts plus overtime. It wasn't worth it to him.

We also had a close knit, teamwork culture. Quite often during the
summer, on nice weekends, we would simply shut the place down at noontime
on Fridays and let everyone enjoy a longer than normal weekend at home.
They were fully paid for the day of course.

And, when the company was sold the first time, every employee shared in
the financial rewards, based on a formula I came up with. Basically, each
employee got a thousand bucks for every month or part of a month he or she
had worked for the company.
Several people received enough to pay off house mortgages, or move up to
larger homes, as they had over 11 years at the company.

My son and I bought the company back several years later when the buyers
determined the business was not in line with future plans. (They were,
themselves the subject of an acquisition).

My son ran the company for the past 5 years. Lightning struck twice and
again, it became a desirable acquisition by a globally based, high tech
organization.

The financial rewards of the recent sale were also shared proportionally
with all employees, most of whom had also received a share of the first
sale. None of the employees who received either or both benefits were
shareholders.

I am very, very proud of the company I had, the work ethic of the
employees and their loyalty, sense of teamwork and quality of the systems
we produced. Our customers shared that viewpoint.

So, being union at whatever per hour isn't the answer to everything.


Eisboch


If every workplace was as fair as yours...unions would be out of business.
I worked for a 'Crown Corporation' and in a big somewhat impersonal national
workplace always complaining about insufficient funds from the gov't, a
union to protect employees was and still is necessary.
I can guarantee you that by American standards, we weren't overpaid. One bad
period we went almost four years without a cost of living increase, and when
we did get increases it was always a struggle to stay even with inflation.



It really sounded like a terrible place to work. Why in the world would
an intelligent individual with marketable skills work in a substandard
workplace.

Gotta admit ...
 

Don White wrote:
"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
. ..
Don White wrote:
"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:26:11 -0400, hk wrote:

You have to realize that W'hine and Reggie aren't regular guys, and
have no connection to working men or women.
I can't speak for Reggie but in my case you have *no* idea what you
are talking about.

Harry has a long history of making 1000's of posts on subjects he has NO
idea what he is talking about. Why should this be any different?
I think he's pegged you pretty good over the years.
Come on out from hidding and we'll judge for ourselves.
Don, what do you want to know?


Your real name would be a good start and the line of work you did to build
your fortune..



I never said I had a fortune, and I will share my real name as soon as
you and Harry provide me with your phone numbers and address.

Gotta admit ...
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"D.Duck" wrote in message
...



That's quite a story. Congratulations on running an excellent
organization.


It still is, although my son and I are now totally out of it.
That's why I bought the Limo. Need something to do. :-)


One of the best feelings, shared by one of the guys in the shop, was when,
after getting his unexpected benefit, he told me that he and his wife had
been putting every extra nickel away for years towards their daughter's
college fund, but every year the tuition costs had been going up, keeping
the pressure on. When he got his check, the whole problem went away and
he and his wife were able to splurge some of their years of savings on
themselves. It was fantastic.

Eisboch

*Fantastic* doesn't do justice to describe the extraordinary treatment of
your employees.

Damn corporate greed. 8)

Gotta admit ...
 

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 13:43:22 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 14:39:50 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 12:47:09 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Hope all these guys get pinned down in the debates.
I'll go for who I think will create the most good jobs for American
kids. That's what makes us strong.

The good jobs for American kids are in hi-tech, not running a screw
gun on an assembly line. That requires education and training of
course.

Bull****.

--Vic

A college graduate with a solid ITT degree with networking specialty
and MS certifications will demand a higher starting salary than a
graduate in engineering. He/she will also be in higher demand if
deciding to switch companies.

This is not to say engineers are not in high demand with high
salaries.

We are definitely moving from a brawn to brain working society in the
US.

Gotta admit ...
 

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 21:00:17 -0400, "Earl of Warwich, Duke of
Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC,
STP. " wrote:

Don White wrote:
"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
. ..
Don White wrote:
"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:26:11 -0400, hk wrote:

You have to realize that W'hine and Reggie aren't regular guys, and
have no connection to working men or women.
I can't speak for Reggie but in my case you have *no* idea what you
are talking about.

Harry has a long history of making 1000's of posts on subjects he has NO
idea what he is talking about. Why should this be any different?
I think he's pegged you pretty good over the years.
Come on out from hidding and we'll judge for ourselves.
Don, what do you want to know?


Your real name would be a good start and the line of work you did to build
your fortune..



I never said I had a fortune, and I will share my real name as soon as
you and Harry provide me with your phone numbers and address.

I will be happy to share my information with you provided you do not
make it public over the internet.

I would love to share a person to person conversation with you.

You, in turn, will have to do the same.

This will all be share via email through a 3rd party, such as Gene or
Tom.

Game on?

Gotta admit ...
 

Gotta admit ...
 

Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 19:16:54 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:25:40 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:

We both know that millions of Americans and Canadians would love to have
$50K manufacturing jobs with half decent benefits and something of a
stable
future.
I hear what you're saying, Don, but...I really don't care about the
Canadian economy. I avoid Canadian built GM vehicles.
You guys should stick to providing fish and running lodges up there.

--Vic
You do realize that you'd be freezing in the dark if it wasn't for Canadian
oil, natural gas , hydro electricity etc etc.

Okay. I take it all back.

--Vic

Don is a moron - literally. You already knew that, right?

Gotta admit ...
 

BAR wrote:
hk wrote:
D.Duck wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
...
D.Duck wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Eisboch wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 14:50:36 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Tell Gene his shop guys don't have decent jobs.
Tell Eisboch his shop guys don't have decent jobs.
Ask them if the gov should do their best to keep those jobs here.
Tell my son the truck suspension guy he doesn't have a decent job.
Go right ahead.
Gene's guys work on aircraft and/or are machinists. Both require
high skill levels.

Eisboch's (former) guys did complex optics and vacuum deposition
work,
more highly skilled jobs.

I assume your son is a skilled mechanic working on truck
suspensions?

Just to clarify, in addition to optical thin film engineers and
technicians, the company also had (still has) many skilled
welders, fabricators, machinists, electricians, general assembly
people, plus a full staff of mechanical, electrical, software
engineers and CAD designers.

This is why Harry's assumption that nobody can possibly know more
about non union workplaces than him is so empty. He has really
had a very narrow exposure to the overall American workforce,
despite his claims.

Eisboch
How many of the non-degreed fellows at that plant are making $37
an hour in the envelope, plus pension and health benefits?
How many union guys are making $37 an hour in the envelope?

Construction workers? Lots. Not most, but lots.

My local has a call out for specialty welders for three to four
years of work at rates higher than that, plus the probability of
significant OT. The skills required for those jobs are way over my
pay rate, but...I'm glad to see the rate way up there.

Gosh...I'm amazed you even know what that term in the envelope means.


Believe it or not I was a Teamster at one time. I had to be a
member for my job during college selling/delivering 7-UP.

I still don't think there are as many union electricians and plumbers
making you would like everyone believe. But now you spin it to
*specialty welders*.



Not at all, I just happened to mention an entirely different trade. I
never said the $37 an hour jobs were under contracts negotiated by by
local.

You really need to get a little beyond Reggiethink.

BTW, I was a teamster two college summers. Made about $12.50 an hour
driving a fork lift truck inside a factory in Milford, CT. This was
around 1960-61. Year earlier, I made a bit less loading beer into trucks.

You were over-paid.

It's another lie.

Gotta admit ...
 

JimH wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 21:00:17 -0400, "Earl of Warwich, Duke of
Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC,
STP. " wrote:

Don White wrote:
"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
. ..
Don White wrote:
"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:26:11 -0400, hk wrote:

You have to realize that W'hine and Reggie aren't regular guys, and
have no connection to working men or women.
I can't speak for Reggie but in my case you have *no* idea what you
are talking about.

Harry has a long history of making 1000's of posts on subjects he has NO
idea what he is talking about. Why should this be any different?
I think he's pegged you pretty good over the years.
Come on out from hidding and we'll judge for ourselves.
Don, what do you want to know?

Your real name would be a good start and the line of work you did to build
your fortune..


I never said I had a fortune, and I will share my real name as soon as
you and Harry provide me with your phone numbers and address.

I will be happy to share my information with you provided you do not
make it public over the internet.

I would love to share a person to person conversation with you.

You, in turn, will have to do the same.

This will all be share via email through a 3rd party, such as Gene or
Tom.

Game on?


All Reggie would cough up would be a payphone number on the other side
of his state, or some such diversion. He's got a yellow streak a foot
wide running down his back.

Gotta admit ...
 

JimH wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 21:00:17 -0400, "Earl of Warwich, Duke of
Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC,
STP. " wrote:

Don White wrote:
"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
. ..
Don White wrote:
"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:26:11 -0400, hk wrote:

You have to realize that W'hine and Reggie aren't regular guys, and
have no connection to working men or women.
I can't speak for Reggie but in my case you have *no* idea what you
are talking about.

Harry has a long history of making 1000's of posts on subjects he has NO
idea what he is talking about. Why should this be any different?
I think he's pegged you pretty good over the years.
Come on out from hidding and we'll judge for ourselves.
Don, what do you want to know?

Your real name would be a good start and the line of work you did to build
your fortune..


I never said I had a fortune, and I will share my real name as soon as
you and Harry provide me with your phone numbers and address.

I will be happy to share my information with you provided you do not
make it public over the internet.

I would love to share a person to person conversation with you.

You, in turn, will have to do the same.

This will all be share via email through a 3rd party, such as Gene or
Tom.

Game on?

EVERYONE in there already knows your name, address and phone number

Gotta admit ...
 

hk wrote:


All Reggie would cough up would be a payphone number on the other side
of his state, or some such diversion. He's got a yellow streak a foot
wide running down his back.

I made the offer, it looks like you are the one with the yellow streak.

Gotta admit ...
 

Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. wrote:
JimH wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 21:00:17 -0400, "Earl of Warwich, Duke of
Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC,
STP. " wrote:

Don White wrote:
"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir
Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. "
wrote in message . ..
Don White wrote:
"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir
Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. "
wrote in message ...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:26:11 -0400, hk
wrote:

You have to realize that W'hine and Reggie aren't regular guys,
and have no connection to working men or women.
I can't speak for Reggie but in my case you have *no* idea what you
are talking about.

Harry has a long history of making 1000's of posts on subjects he
has NO idea what he is talking about. Why should this be any
different?
I think he's pegged you pretty good over the years.
Come on out from hidding and we'll judge for ourselves.
Don, what do you want to know?

Your real name would be a good start and the line of work you did to
build your fortune..

I never said I had a fortune, and I will share my real name as soon
as you and Harry provide me with your phone numbers and address.

I will be happy to share my information with you provided you do not
make it public over the internet.
I would love to share a person to person conversation with you.

You, in turn, will have to do the same.

This will all be share via email through a 3rd party, such as Gene or
Tom.

Game on?

EVERYONE in there already knows your name, address and phone number


Isn't it Dennis Compton?

;)

Gotta admit ...
 

"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
...
Don White wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Just to clarify, in addition to optical thin film engineers and
technicians, the company also had (still has) many skilled welders,
fabricators, machinists, electricians, general assembly people, plus a
full staff of mechanical, electrical, software engineers and CAD
designers.

This is why Harry's assumption that nobody can possibly know more
about non union workplaces than him is so empty. He has really had a
very narrow exposure to the overall American workforce, despite his
claims.

Eisboch

How many of the non-degreed fellows at that plant are making $37 an
hour in the envelope, plus pension and health benefits?

It has been several years since I had an idea of payscales, etc. All I
can say is that the company paid competitive salaries/hourly rates, had
a 401 type pension plan to which the company made a varying
contribution, depending on how well we were doing, had an excellent Blue
Cross health plan for which the company paid 75% of the premiums and a
dental plan with the same company contribution. We also picked up the
tab for continued technical education, if it was pertinent to the
employee's responsibilities at the company.

It must have been ok because our turnover rate was virtually zero. We
did lose one welder to the "Big Dig" because they were offering
pay/overtime packages at the time that were way out of whack with
industry. The welder came back though, after a year of busting his ass,
working night shifts plus overtime. It wasn't worth it to him.

We also had a close knit, teamwork culture. Quite often during the
summer, on nice weekends, we would simply shut the place down at
noontime on Fridays and let everyone enjoy a longer than normal weekend
at home. They were fully paid for the day of course.

And, when the company was sold the first time, every employee shared in
the financial rewards, based on a formula I came up with. Basically,
each employee got a thousand bucks for every month or part of a month he
or she had worked for the company.
Several people received enough to pay off house mortgages, or move up to
larger homes, as they had over 11 years at the company.

My son and I bought the company back several years later when the buyers
determined the business was not in line with future plans. (They were,
themselves the subject of an acquisition).

My son ran the company for the past 5 years. Lightning struck twice and
again, it became a desirable acquisition by a globally based, high tech
organization.

The financial rewards of the recent sale were also shared proportionally
with all employees, most of whom had also received a share of the first
sale. None of the employees who received either or both benefits were
shareholders.

I am very, very proud of the company I had, the work ethic of the
employees and their loyalty, sense of teamwork and quality of the
systems we produced. Our customers shared that viewpoint.

So, being union at whatever per hour isn't the answer to everything.


Eisboch


If every workplace was as fair as yours...unions would be out of
business.
I worked for a 'Crown Corporation' and in a big somewhat impersonal
national workplace always complaining about insufficient funds from the
gov't, a union to protect employees was and still is necessary.
I can guarantee you that by American standards, we weren't overpaid. One
bad period we went almost four years without a cost of living increase,
and when we did get increases it was always a struggle to stay even with
inflation.

It really sounded like a terrible place to work. Why in the world would
an intelligent individual with marketable skills work in a substandard
workplace.

I understand you know next to nothing about working conditions outside your
little redneck heaven, but the Corp I worked for was considered one of the
better workplaces in this area when I joined up in the early 70s.

Gotta admit ...
 

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 22:31:29 -0400, "Earl of Warwich, Duke of
Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC,
STP. " wrote:

JimH wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 21:00:17 -0400, "Earl of Warwich, Duke of
Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC,
STP. " wrote:

Don White wrote:
"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
. ..
Don White wrote:
"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:26:11 -0400, hk wrote:

You have to realize that W'hine and Reggie aren't regular guys, and
have no connection to working men or women.
I can't speak for Reggie but in my case you have *no* idea what you
are talking about.

Harry has a long history of making 1000's of posts on subjects he has NO
idea what he is talking about. Why should this be any different?
I think he's pegged you pretty good over the years.
Come on out from hidding and we'll judge for ourselves.
Don, what do you want to know?

Your real name would be a good start and the line of work you did to build
your fortune..


I never said I had a fortune, and I will share my real name as soon as
you and Harry provide me with your phone numbers and address.

I will be happy to share my information with you provided you do not
make it public over the internet.

I would love to share a person to person conversation with you.

You, in turn, will have to do the same.

This will all be share via email through a 3rd party, such as Gene or
Tom.

Game on?

EVERYONE in there already knows your name, address and phone number

And?

So why not let us know your name, address and phone number?

BTW: Will you give me a call tomorrow morning?

Gotta admit ...
 

Don White wrote:
"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
...
Don White wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Just to clarify, in addition to optical thin film engineers and
technicians, the company also had (still has) many skilled welders,
fabricators, machinists, electricians, general assembly people, plus a
full staff of mechanical, electrical, software engineers and CAD
designers.

This is why Harry's assumption that nobody can possibly know more
about non union workplaces than him is so empty. He has really had a
very narrow exposure to the overall American workforce, despite his
claims.

Eisboch
How many of the non-degreed fellows at that plant are making $37 an
hour in the envelope, plus pension and health benefits?
It has been several years since I had an idea of payscales, etc. All I
can say is that the company paid competitive salaries/hourly rates, had
a 401 type pension plan to which the company made a varying
contribution, depending on how well we were doing, had an excellent Blue
Cross health plan for which the company paid 75% of the premiums and a
dental plan with the same company contribution. We also picked up the
tab for continued technical education, if it was pertinent to the
employee's responsibilities at the company.

It must have been ok because our turnover rate was virtually zero. We
did lose one welder to the "Big Dig" because they were offering
pay/overtime packages at the time that were way out of whack with
industry. The welder came back though, after a year of busting his ass,
working night shifts plus overtime. It wasn't worth it to him.

We also had a close knit, teamwork culture. Quite often during the
summer, on nice weekends, we would simply shut the place down at
noontime on Fridays and let everyone enjoy a longer than normal weekend
at home. They were fully paid for the day of course.

And, when the company was sold the first time, every employee shared in
the financial rewards, based on a formula I came up with. Basically,
each employee got a thousand bucks for every month or part of a month he
or she had worked for the company.
Several people received enough to pay off house mortgages, or move up to
larger homes, as they had over 11 years at the company.

My son and I bought the company back several years later when the buyers
determined the business was not in line with future plans. (They were,
themselves the subject of an acquisition).

My son ran the company for the past 5 years. Lightning struck twice and
again, it became a desirable acquisition by a globally based, high tech
organization.

The financial rewards of the recent sale were also shared proportionally
with all employees, most of whom had also received a share of the first
sale. None of the employees who received either or both benefits were
shareholders.

I am very, very proud of the company I had, the work ethic of the
employees and their loyalty, sense of teamwork and quality of the
systems we produced. Our customers shared that viewpoint.

So, being union at whatever per hour isn't the answer to everything.


Eisboch

If every workplace was as fair as yours...unions would be out of
business.
I worked for a 'Crown Corporation' and in a big somewhat impersonal
national workplace always complaining about insufficient funds from the
gov't, a union to protect employees was and still is necessary.
I can guarantee you that by American standards, we weren't overpaid. One
bad period we went almost four years without a cost of living increase,
and when we did get increases it was always a struggle to stay even with
inflation.
It really sounded like a terrible place to work. Why in the world would
an intelligent individual with marketable skills work in a substandard
workplace.

I understand you know next to nothing about working conditions outside your
little redneck heaven, but the Corp I worked for was considered one of the
better workplaces in this area when I joined up in the early 70s.




Keep in mind that Reggie the Coward is only here to provoke.
The only suitable response for Reggie:

**** You.

Gotta admit ...
 

Don White wrote:
"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
...
Don White wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Just to clarify, in addition to optical thin film engineers and
technicians, the company also had (still has) many skilled welders,
fabricators, machinists, electricians, general assembly people, plus a
full staff of mechanical, electrical, software engineers and CAD
designers.

This is why Harry's assumption that nobody can possibly know more
about non union workplaces than him is so empty. He has really had a
very narrow exposure to the overall American workforce, despite his
claims.

Eisboch
How many of the non-degreed fellows at that plant are making $37 an
hour in the envelope, plus pension and health benefits?
It has been several years since I had an idea of payscales, etc. All I
can say is that the company paid competitive salaries/hourly rates, had
a 401 type pension plan to which the company made a varying
contribution, depending on how well we were doing, had an excellent Blue
Cross health plan for which the company paid 75% of the premiums and a
dental plan with the same company contribution. We also picked up the
tab for continued technical education, if it was pertinent to the
employee's responsibilities at the company.

It must have been ok because our turnover rate was virtually zero. We
did lose one welder to the "Big Dig" because they were offering
pay/overtime packages at the time that were way out of whack with
industry. The welder came back though, after a year of busting his ass,
working night shifts plus overtime. It wasn't worth it to him.

We also had a close knit, teamwork culture. Quite often during the
summer, on nice weekends, we would simply shut the place down at
noontime on Fridays and let everyone enjoy a longer than normal weekend
at home. They were fully paid for the day of course.

And, when the company was sold the first time, every employee shared in
the financial rewards, based on a formula I came up with. Basically,
each employee got a thousand bucks for every month or part of a month he
or she had worked for the company.
Several people received enough to pay off house mortgages, or move up to
larger homes, as they had over 11 years at the company.

My son and I bought the company back several years later when the buyers
determined the business was not in line with future plans. (They were,
themselves the subject of an acquisition).

My son ran the company for the past 5 years. Lightning struck twice and
again, it became a desirable acquisition by a globally based, high tech
organization.

The financial rewards of the recent sale were also shared proportionally
with all employees, most of whom had also received a share of the first
sale. None of the employees who received either or both benefits were
shareholders.

I am very, very proud of the company I had, the work ethic of the
employees and their loyalty, sense of teamwork and quality of the
systems we produced. Our customers shared that viewpoint.

So, being union at whatever per hour isn't the answer to everything.


Eisboch

If every workplace was as fair as yours...unions would be out of
business.
I worked for a 'Crown Corporation' and in a big somewhat impersonal
national workplace always complaining about insufficient funds from the
gov't, a union to protect employees was and still is necessary.
I can guarantee you that by American standards, we weren't overpaid. One
bad period we went almost four years without a cost of living increase,
and when we did get increases it was always a struggle to stay even with
inflation.
It really sounded like a terrible place to work. Why in the world would
an intelligent individual with marketable skills work in a substandard
workplace.

I understand you know next to nothing about working conditions outside your
little redneck heaven, but the Corp I worked for was considered one of the
better workplaces in this area when I joined up in the early 70s.



Actually, I have lived on 3 continents, went to college in NYC, and
worked in 7 cities in the US before moving to Atlanta. I have changed
employers and moved 3 times for better employment opportunities. You on
the other hand, take a job that you feel was a terrible place to work,
just so you can stay in your little tiny town. The best piece of ****
is still nothing more than a piece of ****.

Tell me again who knows next to nothing about working conditions
outside their little redneck heaven?

Gotta admit ...
 

JimH wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 22:31:29 -0400, "Earl of Warwich, Duke of
Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC,
STP. " wrote:

JimH wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 21:00:17 -0400, "Earl of Warwich, Duke of
Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC,
STP. " wrote:

Don White wrote:
"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
. ..
Don White wrote:
"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:26:11 -0400, hk wrote:

You have to realize that W'hine and Reggie aren't regular guys, and
have no connection to working men or women.
I can't speak for Reggie but in my case you have *no* idea what you
are talking about.

Harry has a long history of making 1000's of posts on subjects he has NO
idea what he is talking about. Why should this be any different?
I think he's pegged you pretty good over the years.
Come on out from hidding and we'll judge for ourselves.
Don, what do you want to know?

Your real name would be a good start and the line of work you did to build
your fortune..


I never said I had a fortune, and I will share my real name as soon as
you and Harry provide me with your phone numbers and address.
I will be happy to share my information with you provided you do not
make it public over the internet.

I would love to share a person to person conversation with you.

You, in turn, will have to do the same.

This will all be share via email through a 3rd party, such as Gene or
Tom.

Game on?
EVERYONE in there already knows your name, address and phone number

And?

So why not let us know your name, address and phone number?

BTW: Will you give me a call tomorrow morning?

Why would i want to?

Gotta admit ...
 

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 23:39:38 -0400, "Earl of Warwich, Duke of
Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC,
STP. " wrote:

JimH wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 22:31:29 -0400, "Earl of Warwich, Duke of
Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC,
STP. " wrote:

JimH wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 21:00:17 -0400, "Earl of Warwich, Duke of
Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC,
STP. " wrote:

Don White wrote:
"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
. ..
Don White wrote:
"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:26:11 -0400, hk wrote:

You have to realize that W'hine and Reggie aren't regular guys, and
have no connection to working men or women.
I can't speak for Reggie but in my case you have *no* idea what you
are talking about.

Harry has a long history of making 1000's of posts on subjects he has NO
idea what he is talking about. Why should this be any different?
I think he's pegged you pretty good over the years.
Come on out from hidding and we'll judge for ourselves.
Don, what do you want to know?

Your real name would be a good start and the line of work you did to build
your fortune..


I never said I had a fortune, and I will share my real name as soon as
you and Harry provide me with your phone numbers and address.
I will be happy to share my information with you provided you do not
make it public over the internet.

I would love to share a person to person conversation with you.

You, in turn, will have to do the same.

This will all be share via email through a 3rd party, such as Gene or
Tom.

Game on?
EVERYONE in there already knows your name, address and phone number

And?

So why not let us know your name, address and phone number?

BTW: Will you give me a call tomorrow morning?

Why would i want to?

'nuff said.

Gotta admit ...
 

Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. wrote:
Don White wrote:


If every workplace was as fair as yours...unions would be out of
business.
I worked for a 'Crown Corporation' and in a big somewhat impersonal
national workplace always complaining about insufficient funds from
the gov't, a union to protect employees was and still is necessary.
I can guarantee you that by American standards, we weren't overpaid.
One bad period we went almost four years without a cost of living
increase, and when we did get increases it was always a struggle to
stay even with inflation.
It really sounded like a terrible place to work. Why in the world
would an intelligent individual with marketable skills work in a
substandard workplace.

I understand you know next to nothing about working conditions outside
your little redneck heaven, but the Corp I worked for was considered
one of the better workplaces in this area when I joined up in the
early 70s.

PS - Don, what does it say about your city, your providence and your
country when one of the better workplaces is a big somewhat impersonal
government employee, which has insufficient funds, a union which was
not able negotiate salaries that was able to keep up with the cost of
living. It really does sound like you live in redneck hell.

Gotta admit ...
 

On Aug 31, 10:39*pm, "Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of
Anglesea, Sir Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. "
wrote:

*The best piece of **** is still nothing more than a piece of ****.


LOL!

makes sense to me.

I'll have to rememeber that.

Gotta admit ...
 

Tim wrote:
On Aug 31, 10:39 pm, "Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of
Anglesea, Sir Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. "
wrote:

The best piece of **** is still nothing more than a piece of ****.


LOL!

makes sense to me.

I'll have to rememeber that.


Feel free to use it at no charge.

Gotta admit ...
 

JimH wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 23:39:38 -0400, "Earl of Warwich, Duke of
Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC,
STP. " wrote:

JimH wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 22:31:29 -0400, "Earl of Warwich, Duke of
Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC,
STP. " wrote:

JimH wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 21:00:17 -0400, "Earl of Warwich, Duke of
Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC,
STP. " wrote:

Don White wrote:
"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
. ..
Don White wrote:
"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:26:11 -0400, hk wrote:

You have to realize that W'hine and Reggie aren't regular guys, and
have no connection to working men or women.
I can't speak for Reggie but in my case you have *no* idea what you
are talking about.

Harry has a long history of making 1000's of posts on subjects he has NO
idea what he is talking about. Why should this be any different?
I think he's pegged you pretty good over the years.
Come on out from hidding and we'll judge for ourselves.
Don, what do you want to know?

Your real name would be a good start and the line of work you did to build
your fortune..


I never said I had a fortune, and I will share my real name as soon as
you and Harry provide me with your phone numbers and address.
I will be happy to share my information with you provided you do not
make it public over the internet.

I would love to share a person to person conversation with you.

You, in turn, will have to do the same.

This will all be share via email through a 3rd party, such as Gene or
Tom.

Game on?
EVERYONE in there already knows your name, address and phone number
And?

So why not let us know your name, address and phone number?

BTW: Will you give me a call tomorrow morning?
Why would i want to?

'nuff said.

I am not sure what "nuff said" means, if you are saying your name,
address and phone number is not know by people in rec.boats, would you
like me to post it in rec.boats? Since you can't understand why no one
would want to post their name, address and phone number in a public
forum, I am sure you won't mind if I post yours.

I remember when Harry just discussed that fact that he had looked up
your home on Google Earth (he thought it was a tacky little house), and
you went into a tizzy fit about him stalking and threatening you and
your wife. For that reason, I won't publish that info unless you say it
is ok.

Gotta admit ...
 

On Sep 1, 12:20*am, "Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of
Anglesea, Sir Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. "
wrote:
JimH wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 23:39:38 -0400, "Earl of Warwich, Duke of
Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC,
STP. " wrote:

JimH wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 22:31:29 -0400, "Earl of Warwich, Duke of
Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC,
STP. " wrote:

JimH wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 21:00:17 -0400, "Earl of Warwich, Duke of
Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC,
STP. " wrote:

Don White wrote:
"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
news:n8KdnRF_uPwevybVnZ2dnUVZ_iydnZ2d@comca st.com...
Don White wrote:
"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:26:11 -0400, hk wrote:

You have to realize that W'hine and Reggie aren't regular guys, and
have no connection to working men or women.
I can't speak for Reggie but in my case you have *no* idea what you
are talking about.

Harry has a long history of making 1000's of posts on subjects he has NO
idea what he is talking about. *Why should this be any different?
I think he's pegged you pretty good over the years.
Come on out from hidding and we'll judge for ourselves.
Don, what do you want to know?

Your real name would be a good start and the line of work you did to build
your fortune..

I never said I had a fortune, and I will share my real name as soon as
you and Harry provide me with your phone numbers and address.
I will be happy to share my information with you provided you do not
make it public over the internet.

I would love to share a person to person conversation with you.

You, in turn, will have to do the same.

This will all be share via email through a 3rd party, such as Gene or
Tom.

Game on?
EVERYONE in there already knows your name, address and phone number
And?

So why not let us know your name, address and phone number?

BTW: * Will you give me a call tomorrow morning? *
Why would i want to?

'nuff said.

I am not sure what "nuff said" means, if you are saying your name,
address and phone number is not know by people in rec.boats, would you
like me to post it in rec.boats? *Since you can't understand why no one
would want to post their name, address and phone number in a public
forum, I am sure you won't mind if I post yours.

I remember when Harry just discussed that fact that he had looked up
your home on Google Earth (he thought it was a tacky little house), and
you went into a tizzy fit about him stalking and threatening you and
your wife. *For that reason, I won't publish that info unless you say it
is ok.

'nuff said..............indeed.

You are indeed a ...................

.........ohhhhh............never mind.

Gotta admit ...
 

On Sep 1, 12:20*am, "Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of
Anglesea, Sir Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. "
wrote:
JimH wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 23:39:38 -0400, "Earl of Warwich, Duke of
Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC,
STP. " wrote:

JimH wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 22:31:29 -0400, "Earl of Warwich, Duke of
Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC,
STP. " wrote:

JimH wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 21:00:17 -0400, "Earl of Warwich, Duke of
Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC,
STP. " wrote:

Don White wrote:
"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
news:n8KdnRF_uPwevybVnZ2dnUVZ_iydnZ2d@comca st.com...
Don White wrote:
"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:26:11 -0400, hk wrote:

You have to realize that W'hine and Reggie aren't regular guys, and
have no connection to working men or women.
I can't speak for Reggie but in my case you have *no* idea what you
are talking about.

Harry has a long history of making 1000's of posts on subjects he has NO
idea what he is talking about. *Why should this be any different?
I think he's pegged you pretty good over the years.
Come on out from hidding and we'll judge for ourselves.
Don, what do you want to know?

Your real name would be a good start and the line of work you did to build
your fortune..

I never said I had a fortune, and I will share my real name as soon as
you and Harry provide me with your phone numbers and address.
I will be happy to share my information with you provided you do not
make it public over the internet.

I would love to share a person to person conversation with you.

You, in turn, will have to do the same.

This will all be share via email through a 3rd party, such as Gene or
Tom.

Game on?
EVERYONE in there already knows your name, address and phone number
And?

So why not let us know your name, address and phone number?

BTW: * Will you give me a call tomorrow morning? *
Why would i want to?

'nuff said.

I am not sure what "nuff said" means, if you are saying your name,
address and phone number is not know by people in rec.boats, would you
like me to post it in rec.boats? *Since you can't understand why no one
would want to post their name, address and phone number in a public
forum, I am sure you won't mind if I post yours.

I remember when Harry just discussed that fact that he had looked up
your home on Google Earth (he thought it was a tacky little house), and
you went into a tizzy fit about him stalking and threatening you and
your wife. *For that reason, I won't publish that info unless you say it
is ok.

I will be happy to share my information with you provided you do not
make it public over the internet.

I would love to share a person to person conversation with you.

You, in turn, will have to do the same.

This will all be share via email through a 3rd party, such as Gene or
Tom.

Game on?

Gotta admit ...
 

JimH wrote:
On Sep 1, 12:20 am, "Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of
Anglesea, Sir Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. "
wrote:
JimH wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 23:39:38 -0400, "Earl of Warwich, Duke of
Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC,
STP. " wrote:
JimH wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 22:31:29 -0400, "Earl of Warwich, Duke of
Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC,
STP. " wrote:
JimH wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 21:00:17 -0400, "Earl of Warwich, Duke of
Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC,
STP. " wrote:
Don White wrote:
"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
. ..
Don White wrote:
"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:26:11 -0400, hk wrote:
You have to realize that W'hine and Reggie aren't regular guys, and
have no connection to working men or women.
I can't speak for Reggie but in my case you have *no* idea what you
are talking about.
Harry has a long history of making 1000's of posts on subjects he has NO
idea what he is talking about. Why should this be any different?
I think he's pegged you pretty good over the years.
Come on out from hidding and we'll judge for ourselves.
Don, what do you want to know?
Your real name would be a good start and the line of work you did to build
your fortune..
I never said I had a fortune, and I will share my real name as soon as
you and Harry provide me with your phone numbers and address.
I will be happy to share my information with you provided you do not
make it public over the internet.
I would love to share a person to person conversation with you.
You, in turn, will have to do the same.
This will all be share via email through a 3rd party, such as Gene or
Tom.
Game on?
EVERYONE in there already knows your name, address and phone number
And?
So why not let us know your name, address and phone number?
BTW: Will you give me a call tomorrow morning?
Why would i want to?
'nuff said.
I am not sure what "nuff said" means, if you are saying your name,
address and phone number is not know by people in rec.boats, would you
like me to post it in rec.boats? Since you can't understand why no one
would want to post their name, address and phone number in a public
forum, I am sure you won't mind if I post yours.

I remember when Harry just discussed that fact that he had looked up
your home on Google Earth (he thought it was a tacky little house), and
you went into a tizzy fit about him stalking and threatening you and
your wife. For that reason, I won't publish that info unless you say it
is ok.

I will be happy to share my information with you provided you do not
make it public over the internet.

I would love to share a person to person conversation with you.

You, in turn, will have to do the same.

This will all be share via email through a 3rd party, such as Gene or
Tom.

Game on?

I don't think you understand this, if I wanted to talk to you on the
phone, I would have called you. I have no desire to talk to you on the
phone.

Gotta admit ...
 

"D.Duck" wrote in message
...

"hk" wrote in message
...
D.Duck wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Eisboch wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 14:50:36 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Tell Gene his shop guys don't have decent jobs.
Tell Eisboch his shop guys don't have decent jobs.
Ask them if the gov should do their best to keep those jobs here.
Tell my son the truck suspension guy he doesn't have a decent job.
Go right ahead.
Gene's guys work on aircraft and/or are machinists. Both require
high skill levels.

Eisboch's (former) guys did complex optics and vacuum deposition
work,
more highly skilled jobs.

I assume your son is a skilled mechanic working on truck suspensions?


Just to clarify, in addition to optical thin film engineers and
technicians, the company also had (still has) many skilled welders,
fabricators, machinists, electricians, general assembly people, plus a
full staff of mechanical, electrical, software engineers and CAD
designers.

This is why Harry's assumption that nobody can possibly know more
about non union workplaces than him is so empty. He has really had a
very narrow exposure to the overall American workforce, despite his
claims.

Eisboch

How many of the non-degreed fellows at that plant are making $37 an
hour in the envelope, plus pension and health benefits?

How many union guys are making $37 an hour in the envelope?


Construction workers? Lots. Not most, but lots.

My local has a call out for specialty welders for three to four years of
work at rates higher than that, plus the probability of significant OT.
The skills required for those jobs are way over my pay rate, but...I'm
glad to see the rate way up there.

Gosh...I'm amazed you even know what that term in the envelope means.


Believe it or not I was a Teamster at one time. I had to be a member for
my job during college selling/delivering 7-UP.

I still don't think there are as many union electricians and plumbers
making you would like everyone believe. But now you spin it to *specialty
welders*.


Welders are in huge demand. they are partnering up with 2 and 4 year
colleges to train ceertified welders. So therefore the welder, union or not
is going to get big pay checks. $500,000,000 at one of the local refineries
in upgrades. Lots require welding and they can not get welders..