Gotta admit ...
 

Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
No offense, but none of the ex-military guys in my local union, and there
are a lot of them, ever mention their time in the service.


No offense, but I find that almost impossible to believe.

Maybe they don't talk about it with you ...... because they know you.

Eisboch



Nope. They've moved on...

Gotta admit ...
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"hk" wrote in message
. ..

No offense, but none of the ex-military guys in my local union, and there
are a lot of them, ever mention their time in the service.


No offense, but I find that almost impossible to believe.

Maybe they don't talk about it with you ...... because they know you.

Eisboch

I am a member of and frequently visit the local American Legion post. The
three topics that get the least amount of discussion are war stories,
politics and religion.

Gotta admit ...
 

On Aug 30, 6:39*pm, wrote:
On Aug 30, 6:36*pm, hk wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 30 Aug 2008 16:34:36 -0400, hk wrote:

Smoke that, Brownie.

I hope you are a better charter captain than you are a discussion group
moderator, because, well, you really *sucked* at moderating. If East
Coast fishing totally dies out, you'd be the boy to blame, hey?

WAFA

Asshole.

No, no, no.. you are WAFA.. you are the only one here with asshole
right in your name.

That was such a refined and cultured comment that Harry made!!

Gotta admit ...
 

Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
No offense, but none of the ex-military guys in my local union, and
there are a lot of them, ever mention their time in the service.

No offense, but I find that almost impossible to believe.

Maybe they don't talk about it with you ...... because they know you.

Eisboch
Nope. They've moved on...

Nope. You just demonstrated to me that you know nothing about what you are
talking about.
Your select group of union members are no different than the millions of
others in the world with a military experience.
All you are doing is expressing what you would like them to be .... because
it reflects your personal POV.

I call Bull****.

Eisboch



You can call whatever you like, but all you are doing is expressing what
you would like them to be, because it reflects your personal point of
view. How many local union meetings have you been to in the last few years?

Gotta admit ...
 

On Sat, 30 Aug 2008 18:36:43 -0400, hk wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 30 Aug 2008 16:34:36 -0400, hk wrote:

Smoke that, Brownie.

I hope you are a better charter captain than you are a discussion group
moderator, because, well, you really *sucked* at moderating. If East
Coast fishing totally dies out, you'd be the boy to blame, hey?

WAFA



Asshole.

That's pretty funny. You are becoming more and more like the Skipper
of old, and we all know what happened to him. Maybe you can get a
bunk with him in the same dementia ward.

Gotta admit ...
 

Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 30 Aug 2008 18:36:43 -0400, hk wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 30 Aug 2008 16:34:36 -0400, hk wrote:

Smoke that, Brownie.

I hope you are a better charter captain than you are a discussion group
moderator, because, well, you really *sucked* at moderating. If East
Coast fishing totally dies out, you'd be the boy to blame, hey?

WAFA


Asshole.

That's pretty funny. You are becoming more and more like the Skipper
of old, and we all know what happened to him. Maybe you can get a
bunk with him in the same dementia ward.



You get what you deserve, w'hine, and that typically is a one word
response.

Gotta admit ...
 

On Aug 31, 8:40*am, hk wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
om...
No offense, but none of the ex-military guys in my local union, and
there are a lot of them, ever mention their time in the service.

No offense, but I find that almost impossible to believe.

Maybe they don't talk about it with you ...... *because they know you.

Eisboch
Nope. They've moved on...

Nope. *You just demonstrated to me that you know nothing about what you are
talking about.
Your select group of union members are no different than the millions of
others in the world with a military experience.
All you are doing is expressing what you would like them to be .... because
it reflects your personal POV.

I call Bull****.

Eisboch

You can call whatever you like, but all you are doing is expressing what
you would like them to be, because it reflects your personal point of
view. How many local union meetings have you been to in the last few years?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Lobsta' boat....

Gotta admit ...
 

Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 14:39:50 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 12:47:09 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Hope all these guys get pinned down in the debates.
I'll go for who I think will create the most good jobs for American
kids. That's what makes us strong.
The good jobs for American kids are in hi-tech, not running a screw
gun on an assembly line. That requires education and training of
course.

Bull****.

--Vic

Unless you can find a way to increase productivity and quality enough to
offset the lower wages in 3rd world countries, what Wayne said is
correct. Now the odds are the way to increase productivity and quality
in mfg'ing plants is by using automation and the best jobs in those
plants will require education and training to maintain the high tech
equipment. The odds of a decent salary with a high school education is
very low.

Gotta admit ...
 

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 13:43:22 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

The good jobs for American kids are in hi-tech, not running a screw
gun on an assembly line. That requires education and training of
course.

Bull****.

What part do you disagree with and why ?

Gotta admit ...
 

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 15:07:43 -0400, "Earl of Warwich, Duke of
Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC,
STP. " wrote:

Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 14:39:50 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 12:47:09 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Hope all these guys get pinned down in the debates.
I'll go for who I think will create the most good jobs for American
kids. That's what makes us strong.
The good jobs for American kids are in hi-tech, not running a screw
gun on an assembly line. That requires education and training of
course.

Bull****.

--Vic

Unless you can find a way to increase productivity and quality enough to
offset the lower wages in 3rd world countries, what Wayne said is
correct. Now the odds are the way to increase productivity and quality
in mfg'ing plants is by using automation and the best jobs in those
plants will require education and training to maintain the high tech
equipment. The odds of a decent salary with a high school education is
very low.

I never mentioned H.S., nor did Wayne.
More bull****. Yuppie Dream World.
India and China can provide all the high-tech brains needed.
I ran Indian high-tech crews for an American Fortune 50 corp.
Don't need no lousy Americans for that if the company decides so.
You guys got your heads in the sand.
Wall Street globalist yuppie bull****. Reminds me of the commies.
Your kids might be next.
And while you're at, tell all the guys "running a screw gun" making
Hondas, Toyotas, Nissans, etc. in Ohio, Kentucky, Tennessee, et al,
they don't have decent jobs.
Tell Gene his shop guys don't have decent jobs.
Tell Eisboch his shop guys don't have decent jobs.
Ask them if the gov should do their best to keep those jobs here.
Tell my son the truck suspension guy he doesn't have a decent job.
Go right ahead.

--Vic

Gotta admit ...
 

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 15:33:47 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 13:43:22 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

The good jobs for American kids are in hi-tech, not running a screw
gun on an assembly line. That requires education and training of
course.

Bull****.

What part do you disagree with and why ?

Pretty much what I said to Reggie.
I have a totally different philosophy than you and him on physical
labor and need to keep production of goods here.
I also have seen my last company take the position on our high-tech
(bleeding edge IT) jobs going automatically to an Indian vendor.
A returning Iraq vet's resume would automatically go in the round
file.
We can't sustain our strength without good jobs here.
We're going downhill.
When I was blue collar many of the guys were sending their kids to
college because they could afford to. That's going downhill.
Just different philosophies.
If people here get deeper in debt, and can't find decent jobs,
you're talking social unrest.
Why not prevent that from happening?
Anyway, I value *every* job, and respect it.
It's all complicated and any argument can be countered, so I
don't want to get more into it.
Let the winds be our guide.
I have faith in the responsiveness of our political system.
Slow, but they usually get it right in the end.

--Vic

Gotta admit ...
 

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 15:07:43 -0400, "Earl of Warwich, Duke of
Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC,
STP. " wrote:

Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 14:39:50 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 12:47:09 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Hope all these guys get pinned down in the debates.
I'll go for who I think will create the most good jobs for American
kids. That's what makes us strong.
The good jobs for American kids are in hi-tech, not running a screw
gun on an assembly line. That requires education and training of
course.

Bull****.

--Vic

Unless you can find a way to increase productivity and quality enough to
offset the lower wages in 3rd world countries, what Wayne said is
correct. Now the odds are the way to increase productivity and quality
in mfg'ing plants is by using automation and the best jobs in those
plants will require education and training to maintain the high tech
equipment. The odds of a decent salary with a high school education is
very low.

I never mentioned H.S., nor did Wayne.
More bull****. Yuppie Dream World.
India and China can provide all the high-tech brains needed.
I ran Indian high-tech crews for an American Fortune 50 corp.
Don't need no lousy Americans for that if the company decides so.
You guys got your heads in the sand.
Wall Street globalist yuppie bull****. Reminds me of the commies.
Your kids might be next.
And while you're at, tell all the guys "running a screw gun" making
Hondas, Toyotas, Nissans, etc. in Ohio, Kentucky, Tennessee, et al,
they don't have decent jobs.
Tell Gene his shop guys don't have decent jobs.
Tell Eisboch his shop guys don't have decent jobs.
Ask them if the gov should do their best to keep those jobs here.
Tell my son the truck suspension guy he doesn't have a decent job.
Go right ahead.

--Vic

Vic..that slimy ass, Waylon Smithers, is doing his usual crap. Only
difference, it's aimed at someone new.
We both know that millions of Americans and Canadians would love to have
$50K manufacturing jobs with half decent benefits and something of a stable
future.
Sure would like to know who this sneaky ******* really is.

Gotta admit ...
 

Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 15:07:43 -0400, "Earl of Warwich, Duke of
Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC,
STP. " wrote:

Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 14:39:50 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 12:47:09 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Hope all these guys get pinned down in the debates.
I'll go for who I think will create the most good jobs for American
kids. That's what makes us strong.
The good jobs for American kids are in hi-tech, not running a screw
gun on an assembly line. That requires education and training of
course.
Bull****.

--Vic
Unless you can find a way to increase productivity and quality enough to
offset the lower wages in 3rd world countries, what Wayne said is
correct. Now the odds are the way to increase productivity and quality
in mfg'ing plants is by using automation and the best jobs in those
plants will require education and training to maintain the high tech
equipment. The odds of a decent salary with a high school education is
very low.

I never mentioned H.S., nor did Wayne.
More bull****. Yuppie Dream World.
India and China can provide all the high-tech brains needed.
I ran Indian high-tech crews for an American Fortune 50 corp.
Don't need no lousy Americans for that if the company decides so.
You guys got your heads in the sand.
Wall Street globalist yuppie bull****. Reminds me of the commies.
Your kids might be next.
And while you're at, tell all the guys "running a screw gun" making
Hondas, Toyotas, Nissans, etc. in Ohio, Kentucky, Tennessee, et al,
they don't have decent jobs.
Tell Gene his shop guys don't have decent jobs.
Tell Eisboch his shop guys don't have decent jobs.
Ask them if the gov should do their best to keep those jobs here.
Tell my son the truck suspension guy he doesn't have a decent job.
Go right ahead.

--Vic


You have to realize that W'hine and Reggie aren't regular guys, and have
no connection to working men or women.

Gotta admit ...
 

Don White wrote:
"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 15:07:43 -0400, "Earl of Warwich, Duke of
Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC,
STP. " wrote:

Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 14:39:50 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 12:47:09 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Hope all these guys get pinned down in the debates.
I'll go for who I think will create the most good jobs for American
kids. That's what makes us strong.
The good jobs for American kids are in hi-tech, not running a screw
gun on an assembly line. That requires education and training of
course.
Bull****.

--Vic
Unless you can find a way to increase productivity and quality enough to
offset the lower wages in 3rd world countries, what Wayne said is
correct. Now the odds are the way to increase productivity and quality
in mfg'ing plants is by using automation and the best jobs in those
plants will require education and training to maintain the high tech
equipment. The odds of a decent salary with a high school education is
very low.
I never mentioned H.S., nor did Wayne.
More bull****. Yuppie Dream World.
India and China can provide all the high-tech brains needed.
I ran Indian high-tech crews for an American Fortune 50 corp.
Don't need no lousy Americans for that if the company decides so.
You guys got your heads in the sand.
Wall Street globalist yuppie bull****. Reminds me of the commies.
Your kids might be next.
And while you're at, tell all the guys "running a screw gun" making
Hondas, Toyotas, Nissans, etc. in Ohio, Kentucky, Tennessee, et al,
they don't have decent jobs.
Tell Gene his shop guys don't have decent jobs.
Tell Eisboch his shop guys don't have decent jobs.
Ask them if the gov should do their best to keep those jobs here.
Tell my son the truck suspension guy he doesn't have a decent job.
Go right ahead.

--Vic

Vic..that slimy ass, Waylon Smithers, is doing his usual crap. Only
difference, it's aimed at someone new.
We both know that millions of Americans and Canadians would love to have
$50K manufacturing jobs with half decent benefits and something of a stable
future.
Sure would like to know who this sneaky ******* really is.




Reggie the coward?

Gotta admit ...
 

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:25:40 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:



We both know that millions of Americans and Canadians would love to have
$50K manufacturing jobs with half decent benefits and something of a stable
future.

I hear what you're saying, Don, but...I really don't care about the
Canadian economy. I avoid Canadian built GM vehicles.
You guys should stick to providing fish and running lodges up there.

--Vic

Gotta admit ...
 

Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:25:40 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:


We both know that millions of Americans and Canadians would love to have
$50K manufacturing jobs with half decent benefits and something of a stable
future.

I hear what you're saying, Don, but...I really don't care about the
Canadian economy. I avoid Canadian built GM vehicles.
You guys should stick to providing fish and running lodges up there.

--Vic


Geez, Vic, we and the Canadians are kind of in this mess together, eh?

Gotta admit ...
 

Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:25:40 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:


We both know that millions of Americans and Canadians would love to have
$50K manufacturing jobs with half decent benefits and something of a stable
future.

I hear what you're saying, Don, but...I really don't care about the
Canadian economy. I avoid Canadian built GM vehicles.
You guys should stick to providing fish and running lodges up there.

--Vic


BTW, the best jobs in the future for many non-college grads will be in
the skilled building trades, especially plumbing and electrical work.
In those trades, starting pay rates can exceed $75,000 upon satisfactory
completion of a certified apprenticeship program.

Gotta admit ...
 

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:55:55 -0400, hk wrote:

Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:25:40 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:


We both know that millions of Americans and Canadians would love to have
$50K manufacturing jobs with half decent benefits and something of a stable
future.

I hear what you're saying, Don, but...I really don't care about the
Canadian economy. I avoid Canadian built GM vehicles.
You guys should stick to providing fish and running lodges up there.

--Vic


Geez, Vic, we and the Canadians are kind of in this mess together, eh?

Sorry, I'm an American-firster. But...besides the fish, the Canucks
can send more Shania Twains and Celine Dions down here.
Hope I'm not repeating myself there.

--Vic

Gotta admit ...
 

"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:25:40 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:


We both know that millions of Americans and Canadians would love to have
$50K manufacturing jobs with half decent benefits and something of a
stable future.

I hear what you're saying, Don, but...I really don't care about the
Canadian economy. I avoid Canadian built GM vehicles.
You guys should stick to providing fish and running lodges up there.

--Vic


BTW, the best jobs in the future for many non-college grads will be in the
skilled building trades, especially plumbing and electrical work.
In those trades, starting pay rates can exceed $75,000 upon satisfactory
completion of a certified apprenticeship program.

What percentage of *certified* electricians make that salary? What area of
the country?

Gotta admit ...
 

D.Duck wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:25:40 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:


We both know that millions of Americans and Canadians would love to have
$50K manufacturing jobs with half decent benefits and something of a
stable future.
I hear what you're saying, Don, but...I really don't care about the
Canadian economy. I avoid Canadian built GM vehicles.
You guys should stick to providing fish and running lodges up there.

--Vic

BTW, the best jobs in the future for many non-college grads will be in the
skilled building trades, especially plumbing and electrical work.
In those trades, starting pay rates can exceed $75,000 upon satisfactory
completion of a certified apprenticeship program.

What percentage of *certified* electricians make that salary? What area of
the country?




Looking for work?

Gotta admit ...
 

"hk" wrote in message
. ..
D.Duck wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:25:40 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:


We both know that millions of Americans and Canadians would love to
have $50K manufacturing jobs with half decent benefits and something
of a stable future.
I hear what you're saying, Don, but...I really don't care about the
Canadian economy. I avoid Canadian built GM vehicles.
You guys should stick to providing fish and running lodges up there.

--Vic

BTW, the best jobs in the future for many non-college grads will be in
the skilled building trades, especially plumbing and electrical work.
In those trades, starting pay rates can exceed $75,000 upon satisfactory
completion of a certified apprenticeship program.

What percentage of *certified* electricians make that salary? What area
of the country?


Looking for work?

Nope. My work for pay career has been over for 14 years.

I believe that your salary quote of $75K for plumbers and electricians is
quite a bit over what a *very* high percentage of those folks receive.

Gotta admit ...
 

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 14:50:36 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Tell Gene his shop guys don't have decent jobs.
Tell Eisboch his shop guys don't have decent jobs.
Ask them if the gov should do their best to keep those jobs here.
Tell my son the truck suspension guy he doesn't have a decent job.
Go right ahead.

Gene's guys work on aircraft and/or are machinists. Both require
high skill levels.

Eisboch's (former) guys did complex optics and vacuum deposition work,
more highly skilled jobs.

I assume your son is a skilled mechanic working on truck suspensions?

All of those jobs are a far cry from assembly line work, and for the
most part they can never be exported, just like construction work.
That does not necessarily mean that their pay will approach the
inflated levels of Detroit auto workers however.

With regard to exporting IT jobs to India, I think that we'd both
agree that only relatively large projects make sense. The smaller
work will always stay here close to the business.

Gotta admit ...
 

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:26:11 -0400, hk wrote:

You have to realize that W'hine and Reggie aren't regular guys, and have
no connection to working men or women.

I can't speak for Reggie but in my case you have *no* idea what you
are talking about.

Gotta admit ...
 

Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:26:11 -0400, hk wrote:

You have to realize that W'hine and Reggie aren't regular guys, and have
no connection to working men or women.

I can't speak for Reggie but in my case you have *no* idea what you
are talking about.


Harry has a long history of making 1000's of posts on subjects he has NO
idea what he is talking about. Why should this be any different?

Gotta admit ...
 

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:25:40 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:



We both know that millions of Americans and Canadians would love to have
$50K manufacturing jobs with half decent benefits and something of a
stable
future.

I hear what you're saying, Don, but...I really don't care about the
Canadian economy. I avoid Canadian built GM vehicles.
You guys should stick to providing fish and running lodges up there.

--Vic

You do realize that you'd be freezing in the dark if it wasn't for Canadian
oil, natural gas , hydro electricity etc etc.

Gotta admit ...
 

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:55:55 -0400, hk wrote:

Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:25:40 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:


We both know that millions of Americans and Canadians would love to
have
$50K manufacturing jobs with half decent benefits and something of a
stable
future.

I hear what you're saying, Don, but...I really don't care about the
Canadian economy. I avoid Canadian built GM vehicles.
You guys should stick to providing fish and running lodges up there.

--Vic


Geez, Vic, we and the Canadians are kind of in this mess together, eh?

Sorry, I'm an American-firster. But...besides the fish, the Canucks
can send more Shania Twains and Celine Dions down here.
Hope I'm not repeating myself there.

--Vic

Well I'm a Canadian-firster. What can you send us these days besides
yankee dollahs, violent television and immoral movies?

Gotta admit ...
 

"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:26:11 -0400, hk wrote:

You have to realize that W'hine and Reggie aren't regular guys, and have
no connection to working men or women.

I can't speak for Reggie but in my case you have *no* idea what you
are talking about.


Harry has a long history of making 1000's of posts on subjects he has NO
idea what he is talking about. Why should this be any different?

I think he's pegged you pretty good over the years.
Come on out from hidding and we'll judge for ourselves.

Gotta admit ...
 

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:55:55 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 14:50:36 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Tell Gene his shop guys don't have decent jobs.
Tell Eisboch his shop guys don't have decent jobs.
Ask them if the gov should do their best to keep those jobs here.
Tell my son the truck suspension guy he doesn't have a decent job.
Go right ahead.

Gene's guys work on aircraft and/or are machinists. Both require
high skill levels.

Look, you said "hi-tech." Skilled trades are not hi-tech.

Eisboch's (former) guys did complex optics and vacuum deposition work,
more highly skilled jobs.

I assume your son is a skilled mechanic working on truck suspensions?

Sure he's "skilled." He works hard, has outstanding mechanical
aptitude and takes pride in his work. That's it.

All of those jobs are a far cry from assembly line work, and for the
most part they can never be exported, just like construction work.
That does not necessarily mean that their pay will approach the
inflated levels of Detroit auto workers however.

My son's job has to be done locally. The others are open to export.
I worked with many production machinists, tool and diemakers,
industrial electricians, pipefitters, etc.
Their jobs are gone.

With regard to exporting IT jobs to India, I think that we'd both
agree that only relatively large projects make sense. The smaller
work will always stay here close to the business.

No. Specialists can be brought in on H1-B's instead of developing
them here. And small application areas are just as subject to H1-B
invasion and export as large ones. The net effect is transfer of
expertise overseas, and not nurturing local talent.
It's only limited to what the company management wants.
I just found out my right-hand Indian, the sharpest all-around IT guy
I ever knew, went back to India to farm.
The skills he sharpened here should have been directed to Americans,
two if necessary. It's a sad state when Indian farmers are allowed
to outshine American IT talent - mostly because the Americans aren't
nurtured here if Indians - who are nurtured there - can be imported
more cheaply. The Indian IT world is full of skill and leadership.
My shop was I think the biggest IT shop in the midwest.
When I left it was half-full of H1-B Indians and Chinese.
They are smart and out-pacing us in education.
Same with other tech areas like radiology, medicine, etc, etc.
Again, we have different philosophies on this.
I am die-hard American on jobs.
The Indian guys were a pleasure to work with. Polite, hardworking and
smart. Rather have an American I'd have to stand over and argue with.
Just how I am.

--Vic

Gotta admit ...
 

On Aug 31, 6:19*pm, "Don White" wrote:
"Vic Smith" wrote in message

...





On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:55:55 -0400, hk wrote:

Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:25:40 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:

We both know that millions of Americans and Canadians would love to
have
$50K manufacturing jobs with half decent benefits and something of a
stable
future.

I hear what you're saying, Don, but...I really don't care about the
Canadian economy. *I avoid Canadian built GM vehicles.
You guys should stick to providing fish and running lodges up there.

--Vic

Geez, Vic, we and the Canadians are kind of in this mess together, eh?

Sorry, I'm an American-firster. *But...besides the fish, the Canucks
can send more Shania Twains and Celine Dions down here.
Hope I'm not repeating myself there.

--Vic

Well *I'm a Canadian-firster. *What can you send us these days besides
yankee dollahs, violent television and immoral movies?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Don't worry, your progressive government will protect you from the
boogie man...

Gotta admit ...
 

Don White wrote:
"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:26:11 -0400, hk wrote:

You have to realize that W'hine and Reggie aren't regular guys, and have
no connection to working men or women.
I can't speak for Reggie but in my case you have *no* idea what you
are talking about.

Harry has a long history of making 1000's of posts on subjects he has NO
idea what he is talking about. Why should this be any different?

I think he's pegged you pretty good over the years.
Come on out from hidding and we'll judge for ourselves.




Reggie is a cowardly pussy. He's taken thousands of cheap shots at
posters here, yet works overtime to try to conceal his actual identity.
You can bet every dollar that in a neighborhood pub, Reggie would be the
little dweeb cowering in the corner, because if he opened his mouth
there as he does here, he'd get the living **** beat out of him on a
daily basis.

Gotta admit ...
 

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 19:16:54 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:


"Vic Smith" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:25:40 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:



We both know that millions of Americans and Canadians would love to have
$50K manufacturing jobs with half decent benefits and something of a
stable
future.

I hear what you're saying, Don, but...I really don't care about the
Canadian economy. I avoid Canadian built GM vehicles.
You guys should stick to providing fish and running lodges up there.

--Vic

You do realize that you'd be freezing in the dark if it wasn't for Canadian
oil, natural gas , hydro electricity etc etc.

Okay. I take it all back.

--Vic

Gotta admit ...
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 14:50:36 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Tell Gene his shop guys don't have decent jobs.
Tell Eisboch his shop guys don't have decent jobs.
Ask them if the gov should do their best to keep those jobs here.
Tell my son the truck suspension guy he doesn't have a decent job.
Go right ahead.

Gene's guys work on aircraft and/or are machinists. Both require
high skill levels.

Eisboch's (former) guys did complex optics and vacuum deposition work,
more highly skilled jobs.

I assume your son is a skilled mechanic working on truck suspensions?



Just to clarify, in addition to optical thin film engineers and technicians,
the company also had (still has) many skilled welders, fabricators,
machinists, electricians, general assembly people, plus a full staff of
mechanical, electrical, software engineers and CAD designers.

This is why Harry's assumption that nobody can possibly know more about non
union workplaces than him is so empty. He has really had a very narrow
exposure to the overall American workforce, despite his claims.

Eisboch

Gotta admit ...
 

Eisboch wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 14:50:36 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Tell Gene his shop guys don't have decent jobs.
Tell Eisboch his shop guys don't have decent jobs.
Ask them if the gov should do their best to keep those jobs here.
Tell my son the truck suspension guy he doesn't have a decent job.
Go right ahead.
Gene's guys work on aircraft and/or are machinists. Both require
high skill levels.

Eisboch's (former) guys did complex optics and vacuum deposition work,
more highly skilled jobs.

I assume your son is a skilled mechanic working on truck suspensions?



Just to clarify, in addition to optical thin film engineers and technicians,
the company also had (still has) many skilled welders, fabricators,
machinists, electricians, general assembly people, plus a full staff of
mechanical, electrical, software engineers and CAD designers.

This is why Harry's assumption that nobody can possibly know more about non
union workplaces than him is so empty. He has really had a very narrow
exposure to the overall American workforce, despite his claims.

Eisboch




How many of the non-degreed fellows at that plant are making $37 an hour
in the envelope, plus pension and health benefits?

Gotta admit ...
 

"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Eisboch wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 14:50:36 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Tell Gene his shop guys don't have decent jobs.
Tell Eisboch his shop guys don't have decent jobs.
Ask them if the gov should do their best to keep those jobs here.
Tell my son the truck suspension guy he doesn't have a decent job.
Go right ahead.
Gene's guys work on aircraft and/or are machinists. Both require
high skill levels.

Eisboch's (former) guys did complex optics and vacuum deposition work,
more highly skilled jobs.

I assume your son is a skilled mechanic working on truck suspensions?



Just to clarify, in addition to optical thin film engineers and
technicians, the company also had (still has) many skilled welders,
fabricators, machinists, electricians, general assembly people, plus a
full staff of mechanical, electrical, software engineers and CAD
designers.

This is why Harry's assumption that nobody can possibly know more about
non union workplaces than him is so empty. He has really had a very
narrow exposure to the overall American workforce, despite his claims.

Eisboch


How many of the non-degreed fellows at that plant are making $37 an hour
in the envelope, plus pension and health benefits?

How many union guys are making $37 an hour in the envelope?

Gotta admit ...
 

Don White wrote:
"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:26:11 -0400, hk wrote:

You have to realize that W'hine and Reggie aren't regular guys, and have
no connection to working men or women.
I can't speak for Reggie but in my case you have *no* idea what you
are talking about.

Harry has a long history of making 1000's of posts on subjects he has NO
idea what he is talking about. Why should this be any different?

I think he's pegged you pretty good over the years.
Come on out from hidding and we'll judge for ourselves.



Don, what do you want to know?

Gotta admit ...
 

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 18:54:48 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


Just to clarify, in addition to optical thin film engineers and technicians,
the company also had (still has) many skilled welders, fabricators,
machinists, electricians, general assembly people, plus a full staff of
mechanical, electrical, software engineers and CAD designers.

Sure, and maybe even a janitor.

--Vic

Gotta admit ...
 

D.Duck wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Eisboch wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 14:50:36 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Tell Gene his shop guys don't have decent jobs.
Tell Eisboch his shop guys don't have decent jobs.
Ask them if the gov should do their best to keep those jobs here.
Tell my son the truck suspension guy he doesn't have a decent job.
Go right ahead.
Gene's guys work on aircraft and/or are machinists. Both require
high skill levels.

Eisboch's (former) guys did complex optics and vacuum deposition work,
more highly skilled jobs.

I assume your son is a skilled mechanic working on truck suspensions?


Just to clarify, in addition to optical thin film engineers and
technicians, the company also had (still has) many skilled welders,
fabricators, machinists, electricians, general assembly people, plus a
full staff of mechanical, electrical, software engineers and CAD
designers.

This is why Harry's assumption that nobody can possibly know more about
non union workplaces than him is so empty. He has really had a very
narrow exposure to the overall American workforce, despite his claims.

Eisboch

How many of the non-degreed fellows at that plant are making $37 an hour
in the envelope, plus pension and health benefits?

How many union guys are making $37 an hour in the envelope?




Construction workers? Lots. Not most, but lots.

My local has a call out for specialty welders for three to four years of
work at rates higher than that, plus the probability of significant OT.
The skills required for those jobs are way over my pay rate, but...I'm
glad to see the rate way up there.

Gosh...I'm amazed you even know what that term in the envelope means.

Gotta admit ...
 

"hk" wrote in message
...
D.Duck wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Eisboch wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 14:50:36 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Tell Gene his shop guys don't have decent jobs.
Tell Eisboch his shop guys don't have decent jobs.
Ask them if the gov should do their best to keep those jobs here.
Tell my son the truck suspension guy he doesn't have a decent job.
Go right ahead.
Gene's guys work on aircraft and/or are machinists. Both require
high skill levels.

Eisboch's (former) guys did complex optics and vacuum deposition work,
more highly skilled jobs.

I assume your son is a skilled mechanic working on truck suspensions?


Just to clarify, in addition to optical thin film engineers and
technicians, the company also had (still has) many skilled welders,
fabricators, machinists, electricians, general assembly people, plus a
full staff of mechanical, electrical, software engineers and CAD
designers.

This is why Harry's assumption that nobody can possibly know more about
non union workplaces than him is so empty. He has really had a very
narrow exposure to the overall American workforce, despite his claims.

Eisboch

How many of the non-degreed fellows at that plant are making $37 an hour
in the envelope, plus pension and health benefits?

How many union guys are making $37 an hour in the envelope?


Construction workers? Lots. Not most, but lots.

My local has a call out for specialty welders for three to four years of
work at rates higher than that, plus the probability of significant OT.
The skills required for those jobs are way over my pay rate, but...I'm
glad to see the rate way up there.

Gosh...I'm amazed you even know what that term in the envelope means.


Believe it or not I was a Teamster at one time. I had to be a member for
my job during college selling/delivering 7-UP.

I still don't think there are as many union electricians and plumbers making
you would like everyone believe. But now you spin it to *specialty
welders*.

Gotta admit ...
 

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 19:07:10 -0400, "D.Duck" wrote:

I still don't think there are as many union electricians and plumbers making
you would like everyone believe. But now you spin it to *specialty
welders*.

Had a union plumber out a couple months ago to replace the pump in my
Tramco lift system. The non-union guy I rejected told me the pump
itself cost $2300 but didn't give a labor estimate.
The union plumber, Peter, was actually seminary-trained - as a priest.
The pump cost was $900 he told me, and he spent about 5 hours working
and a couple hours driving here and back from Chicago.
Sat at the kitchen table to do the bill, put a finger on his chin to
figure the cost. Looked like a priest doing that.
$2100. I was happy.
You figure the hourly on that.
Couple days ago the pump started making noise, so I have to get him
back out here. Damn.

--Vic

Gotta admit ...
 

D.Duck wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
...
D.Duck wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Eisboch wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 14:50:36 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Tell Gene his shop guys don't have decent jobs.
Tell Eisboch his shop guys don't have decent jobs.
Ask them if the gov should do their best to keep those jobs here.
Tell my son the truck suspension guy he doesn't have a decent job.
Go right ahead.
Gene's guys work on aircraft and/or are machinists. Both require
high skill levels.

Eisboch's (former) guys did complex optics and vacuum deposition work,
more highly skilled jobs.

I assume your son is a skilled mechanic working on truck suspensions?

Just to clarify, in addition to optical thin film engineers and
technicians, the company also had (still has) many skilled welders,
fabricators, machinists, electricians, general assembly people, plus a
full staff of mechanical, electrical, software engineers and CAD
designers.

This is why Harry's assumption that nobody can possibly know more about
non union workplaces than him is so empty. He has really had a very
narrow exposure to the overall American workforce, despite his claims.

Eisboch
How many of the non-degreed fellows at that plant are making $37 an hour
in the envelope, plus pension and health benefits?
How many union guys are making $37 an hour in the envelope?

Construction workers? Lots. Not most, but lots.

My local has a call out for specialty welders for three to four years of
work at rates higher than that, plus the probability of significant OT.
The skills required for those jobs are way over my pay rate, but...I'm
glad to see the rate way up there.

Gosh...I'm amazed you even know what that term in the envelope means.


Believe it or not I was a Teamster at one time. I had to be a member for
my job during college selling/delivering 7-UP.

I still don't think there are as many union electricians and plumbers making
you would like everyone believe. But now you spin it to *specialty
welders*.




Not at all, I just happened to mention an entirely different trade. I
never said the $37 an hour jobs were under contracts negotiated by by
local.

You really need to get a little beyond Reggiethink.

BTW, I was a teamster two college summers. Made about $12.50 an hour
driving a fork lift truck inside a factory in Milford, CT. This was
around 1960-61. Year earlier, I made a bit less loading beer into trucks.