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GM loses big-time
hk wrote in
: I have no idea where the motor was "made." Mexico? |
GM loses big-time
Larry wrote:
hk wrote in : I have no idea where the motor was "made." Mexico? Actually, I believe the crates say "Made in Japan," and that isn't referring to the crate... :) Next time I am at the dealer's, I'll check. |
GM loses big-time
On Fri, 01 Aug 2008 16:24:44 -0400, hk wrote:
There are no more new Evinrudes, just as there are no more new Indian motorcycles. The lineage of both is dead and buried; just the name survives. There haven't actually been any since the fifties or before. Just Outboard Marine, sold under the names of both Evinrude and Johnson, for the same engines. Casady |
GM loses big-time
Richard Casady wrote:
On Fri, 01 Aug 2008 16:24:44 -0400, hk wrote: There are no more new Evinrudes, just as there are no more new Indian motorcycles. The lineage of both is dead and buried; just the name survives. There haven't actually been any since the fifties or before. Just Outboard Marine, sold under the names of both Evinrude and Johnson, for the same engines. Casady Not entirely true. Outboard Marine's predecessor company, ELTO, was founded by Ole Evinrude, and his son, Ralph, formed OMC and served many decades as its chief exec. In later years, the Johnson and Evinrude brand names had some products identical under the cover and some different. I recall a 5-1/2 hp Johnson, a 7-1/2 hp Evinrude, a 10 hp Johnson, a 15 and 18 hp Evinrude. I believe both lines had 25 hp engines. I think from that point on, both lines had the same engines under different hoods and in different colors. There also were some 9-1/2 hp engines built to stay under the 10 hp limit on some lakes. Ralph Evinrude retired in the 1980s. My father was an Evinrude dealer from the end of WW II until the mid 1960's, when he dropped Evinrude and took on the Merc line. His best friend was a Johnson dealer. His friend's boat store and marina is still operating, though I don't know who is running it. I sold my father's boat store within a year of his death and we sold the marina property to a - blech- condo developer. |
GM loses big-time
On Fri, 01 Aug 2008 19:17:45 -0400, hk wrote:
In later years, the Johnson and Evinrude brand names had some products identical under the cover and some different. I recall a 5-1/2 hp Johnson, a 7-1/2 hp Evinrude, a 10 hp Johnson, a 15 and 18 hp Evinrude. I believe both lines had 25 hp engines. I think from that point on, both lines had the same engines under different hoods and in different colors. We had a 51/2 Evinrude. It was a fiftieth anniversary model, whatever year that was. There were no sizes unique to either brand. The only discernable difference on any of them was the outer cover. I was there and went to the boat stores and everything. |
GM loses big-time
Richard Casady wrote:
On Fri, 01 Aug 2008 19:17:45 -0400, hk wrote: In later years, the Johnson and Evinrude brand names had some products identical under the cover and some different. I recall a 5-1/2 hp Johnson, a 7-1/2 hp Evinrude, a 10 hp Johnson, a 15 and 18 hp Evinrude. I believe both lines had 25 hp engines. I think from that point on, both lines had the same engines under different hoods and in different colors. We had a 51/2 Evinrude. It was a fiftieth anniversary model, whatever year that was. There were no sizes unique to either brand. The only discernable difference on any of them was the outer cover. I was there and went to the boat stores and everything. Perhaps by then the sizes were homogenized. There were different offerings in different sizes in the time period I was discussing. |
GM loses big-time
hk wrote in
: Not entirely true. Outboard Marine's predecessor company, ELTO, was founded by Ole Evinrude, and his son, Ralph, My first outboard motor was an ELTO. It was part of the Christmas present given to me by my grandfather and his friends, which included an old oak rowboat painted State Park Green because one of the friends was a park maintenance superintendent at the local state park. One of the other old friends showed up one day with a spiffed up 1hp ELTO outboard from way, way back that had set up in his garage for decades. He had disassembled it and fixed anything wrong with it, including a new little fat spark plug that looked like someone had squashed it end to end with a brass thumbscrew I was really soon to learn was not to be touched or gotten anywhere around when it was putting away on my new boat! As it was right under the gas tank where a finger would surely touch it as you tried to lift the motor up to get it out of the mud, you soon learned to shut it down BEFORE reaching back there and finding yourself on the end of Mr Ole's big magneto! I have no idea what it's model number was but it had an open flywheel you wrapped the starting rope around, a water cooled cylinder jacket that was fed by a little piston pump I suppose ran off some kind of cam in the foot that had a tiny little pipe sticking out the bottom of the water jacket and, most amusing to an 8-year-old yacht owner went squirt- squirt-squirt in time with the pop-pop=pop of the little 2 stroke engine. A spark lever was marked in front by a little metal strip around the bottom of the flywheel and there was a throttle lever on the front of the tiny carb next to the choke lever, I think I remember, feeding premix 15:1 Quaker State SAE 30 and Grandpa's Tractor Gas into the crankcase. Any guesses as to its manufacturing date would be most appreciated. I've wondered about it for years. Of course, my mother and grandmother were livid when they found out saying I'd be dead in a month from drowning in the lake. "How can he drown?", my grandfather told her. "He's got his floating cushion right under his behind!" That was all the PFD I ever remember anyone at Owasco Lake carrying in their boat...a square, dark green, floating boat cushion. We were fine. I'm still here at 62! I'd been driving Grandpa's 7.5 Sportwin and 40hp Scott-A****er since I was big enough to hold onto the tiller or see over the steering wheel of his Penn-Yan runabout! ELTOs were fantastic motors. Mine would start if you spun it with your fingers once you got the spark and throttle pointed to START....(c; With my 1 gallon premix gas can I could cruise all day with Robb Munn, my best friend.... |
GM loses big-time
"hk" wrote in message . .. GM shares fell more than 7% in premarket trading to $10.20. Surprising it was that little. They lost almost twice their market cap. Anyone taking shorts on $2? GM's Latin American operation was a bright spot - profit rose to $445 million from $296 million. But Asia swung to loss and European profits tumbled 94%. I would branch out and buy GMSA, they don't have lethargic management and union up the but (yet). But then again, cancer does travel. Excluding charges, the North American business had a $4.3 billion loss as revenue dropped by one-third to $19.8 billion, pushing market share down to 20.2% from 22.7%. Wait until next quarter. Good luck Ontario CAW/US UAW GM. Time has arrived for payment. Management has let you idiots go so long in a fantasy, there is no hope now. GM is spining down the toilet so fast that no one sees it. Chrysler down, GM spinning and Ford working on keeping up. The auto business, just waiting for someone to shoot it. At least if I buy a Tata Nano for $4000 I know I am getting a cheap car. |
GM loses big-time
"Eisboch" wrote in message ... "hk" wrote in message . .. DOW JONES NEWSWIRES General Motors Corp. (GM) posted a stunning $15.5 billion second-quarter net loss, as the auto maker piled up $9.1 billion in charges and write-downs and suffered a deep drop in North American sales. The company had warned in mid-July that it would post "a significant second quarter loss." But the actual numbers were far worse than analysts had expected, and point to the enormous challenges facing GM as buyers turn away en masse from its most profitable offerings. GM shares fell more than 7% in premarket trading to $10.20. GM reported a net loss of $27.33 a share, compared with net income of $891 million, or $1.56 a share, a year earlier. Excluding items, the loss was $6.3 billion, or $11.21 a share. Revenue fell 18% to $38.2 billion. Analysts surveyed by Thomson Reuters had been looking for a loss, excluding items, of $2.62 a share on revenue of $44.57 billion. GM's Latin American operation was a bright spot - profit rose to $445 million from $296 million. But Asia swung to loss and European profits tumbled 94%. Excluding charges, the North American business had a $4.3 billion loss as revenue dropped by one-third to $19.8 billion, pushing market share down to 20.2% from 22.7%. A year ago, GM swung to a second-quarter profit as it relied on continued strength in international operations and a slim profit in its core North American automotive unit to dramatically improve its bottom line. GM's earnings were also dented by a $1.2 billion loss from its 49% stake in its GMAC LLC financing arm. Thursday, GMAC swung to a second-quarter loss as it took a $716 million write-down on leases and recorded more losses from its Residential Capital LLC unit. Second-quarter cash levels fell to $21 billion at the end of the second quarter from $23.9 billion at the end of the first quarter. The dismal second quarter caps four consecutive years of disappointing results, dating back to the beginning of 2005, when GM shocked Wall Street with an abrupt string of deep losses. Since then, Chief Executive Rick Wagoner has been racing to cut costs, slim down operations and remake the vehicle portfolio. *At the same time, Wagoner has invested heavily into emerging markets, placing big bets in Latin America, Eastern Europe and Asia even as market share dwindles at home.* - - - Any bets as to when GM will abandon manufacturing in the U.S. market? No time soon. Although dismal financial results, the bulk of the "losses" are write offs and charges to re-tool for the manufacture of more smaller, fuel efficient cars for the US market. They have been retooling for 4 decades. WTF. Sounds horrible, and I am not making light of the problems, but it's not as bad as the media (and you) are making it out to be. Worse, bankrupt GM. GM is toast. |
GM loses big-time
Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq. wrote:
hk wrote: Eisboch wrote: "hk" wrote in message . .. I *love* it. It tells me Wal-Mart is scared. Wal-Mart is among the most exploitative major employers in the United States. The so-called "health insurance" it "offers" its employees is a fraud. It is a major violator of wage-hour laws. It is the major seller of crap ChiComm products in the USA. It seems to me that Wal-Mart has a specific goal to remain a low-cost outlet for limited income families and/or those that like to pinch pennys when buying basic necessities. In your quote you left out the part whereby by unionizing, Wal-Mart would need to raise prices and lay off employees. Why not let the public chose where they want to shop and work? Eisboch Shop wherever the hell you want. Free choice in shopping is fine if the "public" has the ability to have influence on how its area is developed. In our part of our rural, conservative county, we have an older Wal-Mart store (that I've never been in), but we stopped Wal-Mart dead in its tracks with its plans to built a "super Wal-Mart" in our area. Wal-Mart spent a ton of money on PR and political bribes to force it way. All it took to defeat Wal-Mart was a number of petitions signed by enough voters to let the county pols know they'd be out on their asses if they approved building the new store. What Harry is really saying: Free choice in shopping is fine as long as I can tell people what their choices are. WAFA is talking out of his ass...again. |
GM loses big-time
|
GM loses big-time
Richard Casady wrote:
On Fri, 01 Aug 2008 19:17:45 -0400, hk wrote: In later years, the Johnson and Evinrude brand names had some products identical under the cover and some different. I recall a 5-1/2 hp Johnson, a 7-1/2 hp Evinrude, a 10 hp Johnson, a 15 and 18 hp Evinrude. I believe both lines had 25 hp engines. I think from that point on, both lines had the same engines under different hoods and in different colors. We had a 51/2 Evinrude. It was a fiftieth anniversary model, whatever year that was. There were no sizes unique to either brand. The only discernable difference on any of them was the outer cover. I was there and went to the boat stores and everything. Did you get WAFA's "my father" story, too? It's legendary. |
GM loses big-time
"Canuck57" wrote in message news:RROkk.50596$nD.3370@pd7urf1no... "Eisboch" wrote in message Although dismal financial results, the bulk of the "losses" are write offs and charges to re-tool for the manufacture of more smaller, fuel efficient cars for the US market. They have been retooling for 4 decades. WTF. Sounds horrible, and I am not making light of the problems, but it's not as bad as the media (and you) are making it out to be. Worse, bankrupt GM. GM is toast. I'll try again. Automakers build what the consumer buys. Eisboch |
GM loses big-time
"Canuck57" wrote in news:IQOkk.50593$nD.27486
@pd7urf1no: At least if I buy a Tata Nano for $4000 I know I am getting a cheap car. Dave, do they have Nanos in Canada, yet? I'm seriously considering flying to Canada to buy a Smart ForTwo DIESEL they won't sell me in South Carolina. I found out I can import it as it is on the EPA list of excluded cars way back to 2004 Smart Cars so bringing it home isn't a problem. They sure don't lose their value very much. Used 2005 Smart Diesels are $CN12000 in Toronto. |
GM loses big-time
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GM loses big-time
On Fri, 1 Aug 2008 21:57:26 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:
I'll try again. Automakers build what the consumer buys. Eisboch That's true up to a point but GM and Ford pigged out at the party. They knew very well they were making much higher margins on their big vehicles, and as a result, put way too little funding into R & D for fuel efficiency. The handwriting has been on the wall for quite awhile for anyone who cared to look, but GM and Ford had their head in the sand. Is there any doubt that they could have produced high quality efficient vehicles, similar to Toyota and Honda, if they had put an effort into it? |
GM loses big-time
"Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Fri, 1 Aug 2008 21:57:26 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: I'll try again. Automakers build what the consumer buys. Eisboch That's true up to a point but GM and Ford pigged out at the party. They knew very well they were making much higher margins on their big vehicles, and as a result, put way too little funding into R & D for fuel efficiency. The handwriting has been on the wall for quite awhile for anyone who cared to look, but GM and Ford had their head in the sand. Is there any doubt that they could have produced high quality efficient vehicles, similar to Toyota and Honda, if they had put an effort into it? And Toyota and Honda have also taken a bad road. Looking at new vehicle for SWMBO. Liked the Acura MDX. People complaining about mileage. 12-18 mpg. Look at the new Tundra. Same size as an F150. 14 mpg highway. Toyota Highlander Hybrid. $49k. Like the look and feel of the Saturn GreenVue. 32 mpg highway, 20+ around town. $25k. My daughter bought a new Sequoia last year. $48k, and probably gets the same crappy mileage as the same size Ford Expedition. About 14 around town, and 16 highway. Look at all the ads for the Japanese cars. Touting the performance. |
GM loses big-time
"Eisboch" wrote in message ... Although dismal financial results, the bulk of the "losses" are write offs and charges to re-tool for the manufacture of more smaller, fuel efficient cars for the US market. Sounds horrible, and I am not making light of the problems, but it's not as bad as the media (and you) are making it out to be. Sounds worse actually. Posting a quarterly loss that is more than twice as much as your market cap well, in my books is serious bankruptcy coming on. GM's troubles are understated, and in fact it is probably too late for GM as we know it to come back from this. My guess is GM will be broken apart. The US side will just go bankrupt while if GM has any profitable divisions off shore they will be bought piecemeal by others. Target price, $0.20 as a speculation buy. |
GM loses big-time
"Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq." wrote in message ... hk wrote: Eisboch wrote: "hk" wrote in message . .. I *love* it. It tells me Wal-Mart is scared. Wal-Mart is among the most exploitative major employers in the United States. The so-called "health insurance" it "offers" its employees is a fraud. It is a major violator of wage-hour laws. It is the major seller of crap ChiComm products in the USA. It seems to me that Wal-Mart has a specific goal to remain a low-cost outlet for limited income families and/or those that like to pinch pennys when buying basic necessities. In your quote you left out the part whereby by unionizing, Wal-Mart would need to raise prices and lay off employees. Why not let the public chose where they want to shop and work? Eisboch Shop wherever the hell you want. Free choice in shopping is fine if the "public" has the ability to have influence on how its area is developed. In our part of our rural, conservative county, we have an older Wal-Mart store (that I've never been in), but we stopped Wal-Mart dead in its tracks with its plans to built a "super Wal-Mart" in our area. Wal-Mart spent a ton of money on PR and political bribes to force it way. All it took to defeat Wal-Mart was a number of petitions signed by enough voters to let the county pols know they'd be out on their asses if they approved building the new store. What Harry is really saying: Free choice in shopping is fine as long as I can tell people what their choices are. The same way unions work. |
GM loses big-time
"Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq." wrote in message . .. I am trying to figure out why Harry is relishing the fact that any company is having a downturn. Harry might be like me, a former stock holder of GM. Fortunately I got out without too much of a loss. GM is the kind of company you want to see smashed, bankrupt and broken appart. Between incopentant lethargic managment and dumb union rant the GM company has been run into the ground ripping off shareholders for too many years. No one believes the same promises made by management and unions 20-30 years ago today do they? It has a negative impact on individuals who have stock in the company, retirees who depend on dividends for part of their income, it has a negative impact on the employees and the local and/or national economy. I guess Harry just enjoys seeing others hurt. I was lucky enough to get out at $30. I feel for those who buy an hold. GM is a stellar let down and a prime example of what is wrong with corporate management in North America. |
GM loses big-time
"Eisboch" wrote in message ... "hk" wrote in message . .. Eisboch wrote: "Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq." wrote I guess Harry just enjoys seeing others hurt. I sincerely don't think Harry wants anybody hurt. He's in warm-up mode for November. Happens every four years. Eisboch Reggie is an idiot. I don't "relish" GM's bad news. It means more bad news for its remaining workforce. Thank god the Bush-GOP plan to "privatize" social security so individuals could invest in the flim-flam game called the stock market got nowhere. Thank God most people realize they can't rely on social security alone in their retirement. Eisboch But those that don't become democrat/socialists. And then target the moneys of those that saved. Taxation for redistribution of wealth (institutionalized government theft). Democrats promises are dangerous. |
GM loses big-time
On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 11:30:28 GMT, "Canuck57"
wrote: snipped a prime example of what is wrong with corporate management in North America. No generalizing there! |
GM loses big-time
"D.Duck" wrote in message ... "hk" wrote in message . .. Eisboch wrote: "Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq." wrote in message . .. I am trying to figure out why Harry is relishing the fact that any company is having a downturn. It has a negative impact on individuals who have stock in the company, retirees who depend on dividends for part of their income, it has a negative impact on the employees and the local and/or national economy. I guess Harry just enjoys seeing others hurt. I sincerely don't think Harry wants anybody hurt. He's in warm-up mode for November. Happens every four years. Eisboch Reggie is an idiot. I don't "relish" GM's bad news. It means more bad news for its remaining workforce. Thank god the Bush-GOP plan to "privatize" social security so individuals could invest in the flim-flam game called the stock market got nowhere. Historically the "market" returns an annual average 10% return. Is that flim-flam? I don't think so either. I average 12%. Have 80% in cash right now looking for a bottom. But should have put out more shorts. It really comes down to this. If the democrats win, the market will have a short term gain until the democrats will have to come clean on how they will pay for promises. Then the market will continue losses until people figure out credit-card-debt-print-money management does not work. Which is really what this downturn is all about. Someone put a pin in the debt balloon. And to make it worse, we have a credit card generation flat broke out there that want those that saved to pay for it. |
GM loses big-time
"Larry" wrote in message ... "Eisboch" wrote in news: : Automakers build what the consumer buys. Eisboch This consumer is trying to by a DIESEL Smart ForTwo but Smart USA doesn't want to sell me one....dammit. I may toss caution to the wind and fly to Canada and buy one, even used. They're plastic so the salt doesn't eat them up there. The diesel is important to me as I want one to burn on Vegetable oil like my other diesels do. The "Smart" car's availability in the USA is a little confusing. For several years a company (forget their name) have been importing them, modifying them to meet US safety standards and selling them. This was done without the blessings of Mercedes, who owns the Smart car product line. Mercedes has introduced "official" Smart cars to the US market, but as you have discovered, only two models are currently available. If demand warrants, they plan to make available other models, including the diesel. That's how I understand the current situation. I also heard or read that Mercedes was going after the company that was importing and modifying them to curtail their business. You need to make sure you are buying from a dealer who is officially authorized by Mercedes. Otherwise, warranty issues may not be honored. I've also considered buying one, just for fun. Still thinking about it. Eisboch |
GM loses big-time
"Canuck57" wrote in message news:UgXkk.51647$nD.26502@pd7urf1no... "Eisboch" wrote in message ... Although dismal financial results, the bulk of the "losses" are write offs and charges to re-tool for the manufacture of more smaller, fuel efficient cars for the US market. Sounds horrible, and I am not making light of the problems, but it's not as bad as the media (and you) are making it out to be. Sounds worse actually. Posting a quarterly loss that is more than twice as much as your market cap well, in my books is serious bankruptcy coming on. GM's troubles are understated, and in fact it is probably too late for GM as we know it to come back from this. My guess is GM will be broken apart. The US side will just go bankrupt while if GM has any profitable divisions off shore they will be bought piecemeal by others. Target price, $0.20 as a speculation buy. Time will tell. Eisboch |
GM loses big-time
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GM loses big-time
hk wrote:
Larry wrote: hk wrote in news:zrednWQ0jPFAjA7VnZ2dnUVZ_h- : Apparently the management at Yamaha is a bit more attuned to customers than to paying that 25-cent quarterly dividend. Oh...I'm not claiming that the Japanese outboards are "flawless," nor are the companies that produce them. Your Yamaha is about as Japanese as the Japanese steak house over by the mall. Your Yamaha was made HERE. His Evinrude was made THERE....(c; No, I don't know where the Yamaha plant is for the Northeast.... The company is Japanese. I have no idea where the motor was "made." I suspect its pieces and parts were collected from around the world and the engine itself was "assembled" in one location. Or something like that. There are no more new Evinrudes, just as there are no more new Indian motorcycles. The lineage of both is dead and buried; just the name survives. Remember when you talked disparagingly about anyone who would buy a Japanese car or engine when someone was talking about a Honda 4 stroke? I think you said someone about "From the people who brought you Pearl Harbor". |
GM loses big-time
"Eisboch" wrote in message ... "Canuck57" wrote in message news:RROkk.50596$nD.3370@pd7urf1no... "Eisboch" wrote in message Although dismal financial results, the bulk of the "losses" are write offs and charges to re-tool for the manufacture of more smaller, fuel efficient cars for the US market. They have been retooling for 4 decades. WTF. Sounds horrible, and I am not making light of the problems, but it's not as bad as the media (and you) are making it out to be. Worse, bankrupt GM. GM is toast. I'll try again. Automakers build what the consumer buys. Eisboch Can GM build these? http://jalopnik.com/343003/the-2500-...eiled-in-india Doubtful, they would have to price them for $25,000 not $2500. Easier to import them. Once the India market is saturated, maybe they will. I also hear China has a 4x4 SUV for under $10K. I think given people are not making more, the expensive cars are over priced Dodo birds. Because people are on to this, if I buy a GM piece of crap, why pay the price when a Tata piece of crap will do? GM has been out of touch too long. Looking at the Chrysler lots here in town, I suspect Chrysler too is in deep - deep trouble. Too much expensive inventory. And local market conditions are relatively good. GM is just waiting for chapter 11. The time has come like computers and TVs, to import cars as North American made is just too expensive. The thing is, Tata has the same attitude as Henry Ford did. Mind you, all that being said you will not get my F150 out of my hands, it pulls the boat. Just facing the facts that most people can't afford the expensive depreciating iron/plastics any more. |
GM loses big-time
"Calif Bill" wrote in message m... "Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Fri, 1 Aug 2008 21:57:26 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: I'll try again. Automakers build what the consumer buys. Eisboch That's true up to a point but GM and Ford pigged out at the party. They knew very well they were making much higher margins on their big vehicles, and as a result, put way too little funding into R & D for fuel efficiency. The handwriting has been on the wall for quite awhile for anyone who cared to look, but GM and Ford had their head in the sand. Is there any doubt that they could have produced high quality efficient vehicles, similar to Toyota and Honda, if they had put an effort into it? And Toyota and Honda have also taken a bad road. Looking at new vehicle for SWMBO. Liked the Acura MDX. People complaining about mileage. 12-18 mpg. Look at the new Tundra. Same size as an F150. 14 mpg highway. Toyota Highlander Hybrid. $49k. Like the look and feel of the Saturn GreenVue. 32 mpg highway, 20+ around town. $25k. My daughter bought a new Sequoia last year. $48k, and probably gets the same crappy mileage as the same size Ford Expedition. About 14 around town, and 16 highway. Look at all the ads for the Japanese cars. Touting the performance. In the year I bought my F150, there were more foreign parts in it than the Tundra. Both assembled in the USA. I like my F150. More of them on the road for cheaper parts when it gets older. But I get better gas mileage than above, guess it depends how you drive it. I don't subscribe to the Japanese myth any more. Sure, once they were better but had a imported Nissan Pathfinder changed my mind. |
GM loses big-time
"Larry" wrote in message ... "Canuck57" wrote in news:IQOkk.50593$nD.27486 @pd7urf1no: At least if I buy a Tata Nano for $4000 I know I am getting a cheap car. Dave, do they have Nanos in Canada, yet? Haven't seen them yet. But Canada once had the Lada from Russia so I expect maybe someday. With all the green hype, and big 3 over pricing in the Canadian market I bet the people are asking. We do have "SmartCars". Over priced too. See them for 2 seasons a year. Trouble with any of these mini cars, add -30C and 8" of snow and they stay in the garage until spring. I'm seriously considering flying to Canada to buy a Smart ForTwo DIESEL they won't sell me in South Carolina. I found out I can import it as it is on the EPA list of excluded cars way back to 2004 Smart Cars so bringing it home isn't a problem. You might be able to get a used one cheap if you go to the snow areas. Many buy them, then discover the heaters are no good in winter as is the traction. Each year we do our Christmas shopping in Montana as many Canadians do. Last December the only people who got home on time were 4x4 and trucks. A friend with a Vette and hybrid eco type contraption had to stay in Great Falls for 3 unanticipated days. Both now have a 4x4. They sure don't lose their value very much. Used 2005 Smart Diesels are $CN12000 in Toronto. If it was in ace shape, offer them $9 or 10K? Also consider Winnipeg. Canadians are just figuring it out, while it is nice to have one vehicle that is "green" and efficient, the other still needs to be a 4x4 V8 or V6. Where I live, every 3rd vehicle is a truck, SUT or SUV. They don't plough my road in winter and only see the Smart Car up the road from May to early November. Makes more sense in SC, nice state BTW. |
GM loses big-time
"Larry" wrote in message ... "Canuck57" wrote in news:IQOkk.50593$nD.27486 @pd7urf1no: At least if I buy a Tata Nano for $4000 I know I am getting a cheap car. Dave, do they have Nanos in Canada, yet? I'm seriously considering flying to Canada to buy a Smart ForTwo DIESEL they won't sell me in South Carolina. I found out I can import it as it is on the EPA list of excluded cars way back to 2004 Smart Cars so bringing it home isn't a problem. They sure don't lose their value very much. Used 2005 Smart Diesels are $CN12000 in Toronto. A storey you may find interesting... http://www.wheels.ca/article/29504 |
GM loses big-time
"Don White" wrote in message ... "Larry" wrote in message ... "Canuck57" wrote in news:IQOkk.50593$nD.27486 @pd7urf1no: At least if I buy a Tata Nano for $4000 I know I am getting a cheap car. Dave, do they have Nanos in Canada, yet? I'm seriously considering flying to Canada to buy a Smart ForTwo DIESEL they won't sell me in South Carolina. I found out I can import it as it is on the EPA list of excluded cars way back to 2004 Smart Cars so bringing it home isn't a problem. They sure don't lose their value very much. Used 2005 Smart Diesels are $CN12000 in Toronto. A storey you may find interesting... http://www.wheels.ca/article/29504 Amazing how they picked just past mid-summer for that PR test. Right after seasonal road repairs and ideal driving conditions. Now how about they try that say on January 10th. Bet it will not be so easy. Say north shore of Superior, 1-6" of snow every other day at -10C. Maybe hit a deer in NW Ontario. Or perhaps the -35C with blowing snow of Manitoba. Get a slight break in SK as -15C is more typical. Get to Calgary in time for a chinook inversion and get 1 good day before a storm. Rogers pass, will be fun when you hit the 8" pothole followed with 4" of pack ice. Then down hill to Vancouver if the axles are not broken. As a second summer time car though, I bet they are neat. But here are the economics. I only need one good vehicle. A vehicle depreciates conservatively at a rate of $3,000 per year. I can't drive 2 at once. If I have 2 vehicles, I would have to *save* at least $3000 in fuel for it to be economical. That is 30 tanks! I don't use that much in a year total. And 30 tanks, I could drive coast to coast easily and pull a boat with 5 passengers. A/C works too. So, I keep my F150 V8. Works all year for all my needs. Even at -30C it gets warm enough the inside is habitable. No space problems for 4 flats of 24 beer, fishing gear, hauls a boat and if I drop by Costco and see a fridge or TV that works I just flip it into the back. Or a load of firewood for the fireplace. Got me through that ugly December snow storm last winter from a Montana/Alberta sneak snow storm. They be fair weather cars. Seen them here, May through October. |
GM loses big-time
"Canuck57" wrote in
news:xcZkk.154620$gc5.54872@pd7urf2no: If it was in ace shape, offer them $9 or 10K? Also consider Winnipeg. Canadians are just figuring it out, while it is nice to have one vehicle that is "green" and efficient, the other still needs to be a 4x4 V8 or V6. Where I live, every 3rd vehicle is a truck, SUT or SUV. They don't plough my road in winter and only see the Smart Car up the road from May to early November. Makes more sense in SC, nice state BTW. Thanks for the advise. I didn't think of the snow problem. Here, it's the heat. I have a remote sensor digital thermometer on the intake of my AC unit where it can actually measure the air, not the radiation. It's reading 92.8F at 1PM and I live on the river which cools the place off a bit. In the parking lot at the mall, crowded today by an annual back to school even the state runs called "Tax Free Weekend", where the sales tax machine is turned off for ONLY A FEW items kids need for school making the parking lot full, it will be 50C outside and 70C inside those locked up cars! Air conditioning is to South Carolinians like snow tires and tire chains are to Canadians....(c; |
GM loses big-time
"Don White" wrote in news:48946978$0$4011
: http://www.wheels.ca/article/29504 Wow! Thanks! "By the numbers Distance (Halifax to Vancouver): 6,168 km Diesel fuel used (total): 337 litres Average fuel consumption: 5L/100 km Total cost of fuel (average $1.05/L): $353.85" His diesel must be set a little rich and there are several programmers for the EPROMS in it to improve the mileage. A team of Italian auto journalists took a smart from Rome to Nuremberg over the mountains and got 3.3L/100km with two adults aboard and luggage. I think it depends on their driving habits, too. He was trying to rush it in 9 days so probably kept his foot in the injection pump most of the way, giving us a sort of worst- case-scenario figure. It's just awful that driving this tiny diesel car STILL costs $CN350 to go across.....in a country with plenty of oil...but the same central bankers as us. |
GM loses big-time
"Canuck57" wrote in news:_D_kk.51817$nD.36480
@pd7urf1no: Now how about they try that say on January 10th. If they have any brains, they'd be driving it across from Miami to San Diego on January 10th, leaving the snow to the boys from Possum Lodge! |
GM loses big-time
"Eisboch" wrote in
: That's how I understand the current situation. I also heard or read that Mercedes was going after the company that was importing and modifying them to curtail their business. You need to make sure you are buying from a dealer who is officially authorized by Mercedes. Otherwise, warranty issues may not be honored. I won't buy a warrantied new car unless I'm forced to. For the difference in price between new and 2 year old used anything, I can set up my own repair shop and staff it with the finest mechanics. I haven't played the dealer-to-get-warranty-work-fiasco in decades. I want professional mechanics to work on my cars, not some low life the dealers hire. In Charleston, SC, that would be Star Motor Service: http://www.starmotor.com/ The best Mercedes mechanic, one of Star's owners, was killed in an unfortunate motorcycle accident a couple years back, but his brother still owns the business and you'll find him, not in the office, but out under the cars where he's been since I met him in the 1980's, when they worked out of a rented garage and didn't have a pot to **** in when they came here from Germany. The facility and reputation speak for themselves. Owners drive from Charlotte and Atlanta to Star for expert overhauls on fine Mercedes cars. One of the classics they stow for a millionaire collector is Chairman Mao's 1966 600 Pullman limo, complete with Chinese Communist flags and a phone stalk of rotary dial carphones in the passenger compartment that is fully bullet proof. I've ridden in it right where Mao sat! Star rebuilt it for the owner when he bought it, drove it to Charlotte for the Mercedes car show and brought back several trophies for their trouble....in grand style, of course. It's a monster! When Stephan was alive, I called him to see if I could get some help for a Canadian sloop that had a cracked fuel filter housing on its Mercedes aux engine. Steve said sure and for me to ask the owners if they minded him bringing his boys with him to see the boat. It was fine. Steve lived for his kids and this was on their time with him, the weekend. He removed the cracked fuel filter and took it to his shop on Saturday morning. He heliarc welded the housing and machined it so you could barely detect where the crack used to be. Back to the boat, he reinstalled it and they all took the boat out into the harbor for "sea trials" as the Canadians called it to let the boys have a hand in sailing this beautiful yacht. Sea trials lasted until nearly dark, Steve's boys now proper sailors, and he refused the yacht owners offer to pay him for his lost Saturday. It's too bad he's gone. His boys miss him something awful, all 4 of them! With service like this at our disposal, warranty service by some clods at a dealership just isn't a good idea. I'll be glad to pay. My mechanic is Melan at Star. He's from the former Czechoslovakia and is simply amazing to watch working on the cars. Unable to get a ball end socket that's part of the windscreen wipers for my 1973 220D antique, he fabricated a new one in short order that's working perfect. Like the Reinerts, he worked for Mercedes in Stuttgart, too, going through their whole apprentice program before working in the factory....(c; No thanks. I don't need warranty service and a $20,000 depreciation. |
GM loses big-time
"Canuck57" wrote in
news:1IYkk.51720$nD.39029@pd7urf1no: http://jalopnik.com/343003/the-2500-...eiled-in-india Doubtful, they would have to price them for $25,000 not $2500. Easier to import them. Once the India market is saturated, maybe they will. I also hear China has a 4x4 SUV for under $10K. The Tata Nano rollout video is on YouTube. I think America IS ready for another Yugo-priced car. I suspect the Nano is far better quality than the Yugo was, however. Asian cars, even the cheapest ones, are better than what UAW slaps together, not giving a damn about anything but paycheck. Our corporations are the ones at fault. They built the crap, now are going to have to eat it, too. GM took back all the EV-1's because the DEALERS were furious it didn't need so much SERVICE at their overpriced shops. The lucky people who road tested them for a year loved them and begged GM to sell their cars to them. GM said no and sent around the repo companies to steal them back when the testers refused to turn them in. GM is the stupidest elephant on the planet.... |
GM loses big-time
On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 18:07:04 +0000, Larry wrote:
o thanks. I don't need warranty service and a $20,000 depreciation. We bought a Lincoln Navigator, two years old, for twenty less than new, with sixty five thousand on it. It developed a leaking valve guide at one seventy five. What service? The spark plugs that we replaced at a hundred thousand were still good. Casady |
GM loses big-time
"Richard Casady" wrote in message ... On Sat, 02 Aug 2008 18:07:04 +0000, Larry wrote: o thanks. I don't need warranty service and a $20,000 depreciation. We bought a Lincoln Navigator, two years old, for twenty less than new, with sixty five thousand on it. It developed a leaking valve guide at one seventy five. What service? The spark plugs that we replaced at a hundred thousand were still good. Casady Ever see how they replace the spark plugs on a Navigator? Interesting. BTW .... Mrs.E. wouldn't part with hers even if gas went to 10 bucks a gallon. Eisboch |
GM loses big-time
"Larry" wrote in message ... GM took back all the EV-1's because the DEALERS were furious it didn't need so much SERVICE at their overpriced shops. The lucky people who road tested them for a year loved them and begged GM to sell their cars to them. GM said no and sent around the repo companies to steal them back when the testers refused to turn them in. GM is the stupidest elephant on the planet.... GM, my guess will be bankrupt inside of 16 months if not bought out. The only thing holding them up is would you want to be the banker to go to your boss and say guess what, we are just about to have a multi-billion dollar default? How they can eat a loss like this with the debt load... has to hurt. In fact, bankers probably are moving in now (if they were smart). Chrysler has been quiet as of late. But the private equity partners via Cerberus Capital Management in the Chrysler deal must be livid. They seem to be restructuring (shell game) putting possible winners into one pool and liabilities in another. Sort of like dump the dogs into one company and let it die. While the other one takes off. Legal yes, moral, not so sure. The 20B+ pension liability is a dog. I feel sorry for those that will get the pension burn here. Ford, hard to tell. They are on a knifes edge but the only Detroit 3 that has much of a chance if any. Depends if the "family" can motivate lethargic management and kick some union ass real hard. Tata would like a peace of their market and the competition fierce. I wouldn't invest in these three unless they were well timed shorts. Looks like a company I left in 1995 is also drowning more shareholder value, NorTel. But that is another story. |
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