With the great debate about which TCW III oil to use I sent some out
for testing. you can see the results here

http://home.comcast.net/~team_doughe...s/results.html

From my limited knowledge of oil I would say of the 5 tested they are
all pretty much the same. With the exception of mercury and yamaha
brand. they have molybdenum in them. Not alot but some.

I did post some links to other sites that explains what the additives
are and what they do.

Do what you like with these results.

On Fri, 2 May 2008 11:37:38 -0700 (PDT), Paul wrote:

With the great debate about which TCW III oil to use I sent some out
for testing. you can see the results here

http://home.comcast.net/~team_doughe...s/results.html

From my limited knowledge of oil I would say of the 5 tested they are
all pretty much the same. With the exception of mercury and yamaha
brand. they have molybdenum in them. Not alot but some.

I did post some links to other sites that explains what the additives
are and what they do.

Do what you like with these results.

Don't know what I'll do with it, but thanks for taking the time to post it.
I have to add moly to the final drive of my Moto Guzzi, which is a 1989. I
was surprised to see the same stuff in the Yamaha oil.
--
John *H*

On May 2, 6:19*pm, "Billgran" wrote:
"Paul" wrote in message


It is used as an anti-oxident as well..."

Green Tea is a natural anti-oxident . So if you mix it with the oil
is it better for the environment?

?:^)

I have seen mention of that article many time but have never found it. Do
you have a link to it?

"Billgran" wrote in message
...

"Paul" wrote in message
...


http://home.comcast.net/~team_doughe...s/results.html

From my limited knowledge of oil I would say of the 5 tested they are
all pretty much the same. With the exception of mercury and yamaha
brand. they have molybdenum in them. Not alot but some.



Some years back I wrote an article for Bass and Walleye Boats Magazine
about the differences between TC-W3 oils and did some home-brew testing.
There were element results just like your charts, but those don't mean a
thing because they only show a few of the items in a lubricant formula.
Just showing basic elements do not do a thing. Some TC-W3 oils use organic
nitrogen based additives and others use metallic based items, and the
organics do not show up on those limited tests.

If you had some food analyzed and the scientist told you that an item
contained a poisonous gas and an explosive element that would burn you
terribly if you touched it, would you eat it? You probably wouldn't,
right?

Well, the poisonous gas is chlorine and the burning element is sodium.
Combined they form sodium chloride, basically table salt. Now you have a
tasty and harmless substance from two potentially killer ingredients. That
is why elemental testing on oils is just for contaminents and a trend over
time (multiple tests) showing the internal wear of an engine.

TC-W3 oils contain hundreds of ingredients if you want to count them all,
solvents, dyes, base oils, and various additives.

The moly you mention is not the solid particles like Slick 50 had in it,
but it is part of a compound that has about 20 letters in the name. It is
used as an anti-oxident as well as anti- wear in the oils.

TC-W3 requires that each certified oil have it's own unique formula and
cannot be one that is already approved. There is a lot of oil testing info
on www.nmma.org

Bill Grannis
service manager

On Fri, 2 May 2008 19:19:19 -0400, "Billgran"
wrote:


"Paul" wrote in message
...


http://home.comcast.net/~team_doughe...s/results.html

From my limited knowledge of oil I would say of the 5 tested they are
all pretty much the same. With the exception of mercury and yamaha
brand. they have molybdenum in them. Not alot but some.



Some years back I wrote an article for Bass and Walleye Boats Magazine about
the differences between TC-W3 oils and did some home-brew testing. There
were element results just like your charts, but those don't mean a thing
because they only show a few of the items in a lubricant formula. Just
showing basic elements do not do a thing. Some TC-W3 oils use organic
nitrogen based additives and others use metallic based items, and the
organics do not show up on those limited tests.

If you had some food analyzed and the scientist told you that an item
contained a poisonous gas and an explosive element that would burn you
terribly if you touched it, would you eat it? You probably wouldn't, right?

Well, the poisonous gas is chlorine and the burning element is sodium.
Combined they form sodium chloride, basically table salt. Now you have a
tasty and harmless substance from two potentially killer ingredients. That
is why elemental testing on oils is just for contaminents and a trend over
time (multiple tests) showing the internal wear of an engine.

TC-W3 oils contain hundreds of ingredients if you want to count them all,
solvents, dyes, base oils, and various additives.

The moly you mention is not the solid particles like Slick 50 had in it, but
it is part of a compound that has about 20 letters in the name. It is used
as an anti-oxident as well as anti- wear in the oils.

TC-W3 requires that each certified oil have it's own unique formula and
cannot be one that is already approved. There is a lot of oil testing info
on www.nmma.org

Bill Grannis
service manager


Bill, I just bought a new Key West with a Yamaha 150 hp 4 stroke. In your
opinion, should I even consider using an oil other than the Yamaha oil
recommended for the engine?


--
John *H*

On Sat, 3 May 2008 10:10:22 -0400, "Billgran"
wrote:


"John H." wrote in message


Bill, I just bought a new Key West with a Yamaha 150 hp 4 stroke. In your
opinion, should I even consider using an oil other than the Yamaha oil
recommended for the engine?



If you want to use a different oil, choose another outboard manufacturer's
oil as your first choice. OB companies formulate their lubricants for better
carbon cleaning and longer engine life. Aftermarket TC-W3 oils are enough to
keep your warranty in force, but remember that they are made for a price
point, and may just meet the TC-W3 requirements. One test allows for 14%
scuffing of the piston diameter to pass, so an oil that only scuffs 12% of
the piston can say theirs EXCEEDS the TC-W3 specs. the OEM oils do not
allow any scuffing in that test. Think about it, if all the oils were the
same price per gallon, would you use the manufacture's designed oil or an
off-the-shelf brand?

I'm not saying other oils are bad, but they may not perform as well as an
OEM one, especially in the carbon cleaning department. Oil opinions have
always been a can of worms, just like discussions on religion and politics.

Bill Grannis
service manager


Thanks, Bill. Guess I'll stick with the Yamaha stuff.
--
John *H*

Billgran wrote:
"John H." wrote in message
Bill, I just bought a new Key West with a Yamaha 150 hp 4 stroke. In your
opinion, should I even consider using an oil other than the Yamaha oil
recommended for the engine?



If you want to use a different oil, choose another outboard manufacturer's
oil as your first choice. OB companies formulate their lubricants for better
carbon cleaning and longer engine life. Aftermarket TC-W3 oils are enough to
keep your warranty in force, but remember that they are made for a price
point, and may just meet the TC-W3 requirements. One test allows for 14%
scuffing of the piston diameter to pass, so an oil that only scuffs 12% of
the piston can say theirs EXCEEDS the TC-W3 specs. the OEM oils do not
allow any scuffing in that test. Think about it, if all the oils were the
same price per gallon, would you use the manufacture's designed oil or an
off-the-shelf brand?

I'm not saying other oils are bad, but they may not perform as well as an
OEM one, especially in the carbon cleaning department. Oil opinions have
always been a can of worms, just like discussions on religion and politics.

Bill Grannis
service manager




Herring has a four-stroke outboard, and it doesn't use TC-W3 oil. It
uses "regular" good quality auto engine oil, of the proper viscosity. If
memory serves, it says something like that right in the manual.

BTW, Bill, if you want to find some boaters, try

http://boatingforum.proboards91.com/index.cgi

Chuck Gould started it as a place for actual boaters to chat and post
photos. I'm sure he'd love it if you reposted some of your articles with
photos.

On Sat, 3 May 2008 13:50:19 -0400, "Billgran"
wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
.. .


Bill, I just bought a new Key West with a Yamaha 150 hp 4 stroke. In your
opinion, should I even consider using an oil other than the Yamaha oil
recommended for the engine?



Damn, John H,

I missed the part in your post that you had a 4-stroke Yamaha and the
original poster of this thread was talking about 2-stroke TC-W3 oils.

Let me rephrase my original answer to you so it concerns 4-strokes. First I
have to thank HK for straightening me out as my mind was still occupied with
TC-W3 and I didn't read your question thoroughly. Sorry about that.

On 4-stroke oils, there is a fairly new certification system endorsed by the
oil blenders and the 4-stroke manufacturers, called "four-stroke,
water-cooled" or FC-W. Because an outboard may run in sal****er, sit unused
for long periods of time, and runs high rpms for hours on end unlike a car
motor, the industry wanted a spec for approved outboard oils. New owners
manuals now state what oil grades to use and say an FC-W certified oil if
you don't use an OEM lubricant. If you are into synthetics, surprisingly the
Amsoil 4-stroke oil is FC-W approved unlike their 2-stroke oils which are
not TC-W3 approved. Here is more info on the FC-W lubes:

http://nmma.org/certification/programs/oils/fc-w.asp

I did write a story on 4-stroke oils before the FC-W certification became
official but it is now out of date because many of the oil companies have
changed formulas over the last few years.

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/ref.../dukeOfOil.pdf

Bill Grannis
service manager


Thanks Bill!

I appreciate your time.
--
John *H*

On May 3, 10:30*am, HK wrote:
Billgran wrote:
"John H." wrote in message
Bill, I just bought a new Key West with a Yamaha 150 hp 4 stroke. In your
opinion, should I even consider using an oil other than the Yamaha oil
recommended for the engine?

If you want to use a different oil, choose another outboard manufacturer's
oil as your first choice. OB companies formulate their lubricants for better
carbon cleaning and longer engine life. Aftermarket TC-W3 oils are enough to
keep your warranty in force, but remember that they are made for a price
point, and may just meet the TC-W3 requirements. *One test allows for 14%
scuffing of the piston diameter to pass, so an oil that only scuffs 12% of
the piston can say theirs EXCEEDS the TC-W3 specs. *the OEM oils do not
allow any scuffing in that test. Think about it, if all the oils were the
same price per gallon, would you use the manufacture's designed oil or an
off-the-shelf brand?

I'm not saying other oils are bad, but they may not perform as well as an
OEM one, especially in the carbon cleaning department. Oil opinions have
always been a can of worms, just like discussions on religion and politics.

Bill Grannis
service manager

Herring has a four-stroke outboard, and it doesn't use TC-W3 oil. It
uses "regular" good quality auto engine oil, of the proper viscosity. If
memory serves, it says something like that right in the manual.

BTW, Bill, if you want to find some boaters, try

http://boatingforum.proboards91.com/index.cgi

ChuckGouldstarted it as a place for actual boaters to chat and post
photos. I'm sure he'd love it if you reposted some of your articles with
photos.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Go away. Go to Chuck's and STAY there, please. Have you noticed how
nice and on topic this group has been without you and your boyfriend?

wrote in message
...
On May 3, 10:30 am, HK wrote:

Go away. Go to Chuck's and STAY there, please. Have you noticed how
nice and on topic this group has been without you and your boyfriend?

If you really want him to go away, ignore him.