"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:19:27 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 11:21:55 -0400, "
wrote:

Shamelessly stolen from another newsgroup
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From the OPINION section of today's Wall Street Journal


Regulatory Overkill
By ALLAN H. MELTZER
March 27, 2008; Page A14

The claim that deregulation went too far is coming from many sides.
snip most of the article

The financial system cannot survive
if the bankers make the profits and the taxpayers take the losses.

I think the above sentences sum up where we are heading. The same
people
who whine about oil company profits will soon notice that the banks are
quite profitable, and the government has relieved them of the risk. At
that
time there will be calls for banking to be taken over by the government.
The current call for more regulation is just the first step down that
road.

I agree being a free market type.

Having said that, there is room for regulation in terms of margins on
hedge funding (which is the real problem). Currently, $1 million will
buy you $10 million call on commodity markets - that is what is
driving up prices so dramatically. You layout $1 million on, say an
oil contract, for $10 million, then sell that $10 million contract for
$11 million, you haven't risked very much for a $1 million dollar
payday effectively doubling your money.

That's gotta be fixed.


Good luck fixing it. The trading fees are a cash cow for the financial
services industry, which donates heavily to all the candidates.

You guys work on getting laws that favor you passed.
Others will work on laws that favor THEM.
The above is mixed up, and I can't figure out if Tom is talking about
options or contracts. But I know nothing of hedge funds.
In any case there is risk taken by taken by the
speculator/hedger/spreader/producer/consumer.
Options have premiums that are paid up front.
On a futures contract there is initial margin and maintenance margin.
Go below maintenance and you have a margin call that has to be paid.
I've had a few of those.
They'll come after your house if you don't.
In that oil example if the market goes against you, you can lose the
million. Two sides, finding a price.
Keep that in mind. For every long trying to goose prices up, there's
a short trying to drive them down.
That's not to say "unethical" forces can't move commodity prices.
But all in all much cleaner and more real than the current Wall Street
stock bull****, where P/E and dividends have become meaningless.
That'll change as the dollar continues to lose value.

--Vic

DISCLAIMER
The views expressed above are not intended as advice, or represent
claims of financial expertise. They are purely personal meanderings
of the author.


Mind if I ask what business you're in? I'm asking because I think I can
demonstrate how YOUR business could be meddled with by people who are
totally unrelated to your business.

On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:49:24 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:



Mind if I ask what business you're in? I'm asking because I think I can
demonstrate how YOUR business could be meddled with by people who are
totally unrelated to your business.

I'm in the retirement business, participating.
And "people" are still in my face!
I just ignore them, though.
Well, not really. The price of Cheerios ****es me off.
Ethanol taking oat acreage out of production.
Probably other factors to complain about too.
I could go on and on.
But go ahead and grind your axe.
I'll comment on the sparks if I can.

--Vic

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:49:24 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:



Mind if I ask what business you're in? I'm asking because I think I can
demonstrate how YOUR business could be meddled with by people who are
totally unrelated to your business.

I'm in the retirement business, participating.
And "people" are still in my face!
I just ignore them, though.
Well, not really. The price of Cheerios ****es me off.
Ethanol taking oat acreage out of production.
Probably other factors to complain about too.
I could go on and on.
But go ahead and grind your axe.
I'll comment on the sparks if I can.

--Vic

What was your business before retirement?

On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:09:39 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:49:24 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:



Mind if I ask what business you're in? I'm asking because I think I can
demonstrate how YOUR business could be meddled with by people who are
totally unrelated to your business.

I'm in the retirement business, participating.
And "people" are still in my face!
I just ignore them, though.
Well, not really. The price of Cheerios ****es me off.
Ethanol taking oat acreage out of production.
Probably other factors to complain about too.
I could go on and on.
But go ahead and grind your axe.
I'll comment on the sparks if I can.

--Vic

What was your business before retirement?

IT - analyst.

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:09:39 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:49:24 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:



Mind if I ask what business you're in? I'm asking because I think I can
demonstrate how YOUR business could be meddled with by people who are
totally unrelated to your business.

I'm in the retirement business, participating.
And "people" are still in my face!
I just ignore them, though.
Well, not really. The price of Cheerios ****es me off.
Ethanol taking oat acreage out of production.
Probably other factors to complain about too.
I could go on and on.
But go ahead and grind your axe.
I'll comment on the sparks if I can.

--Vic

What was your business before retirement?


IT - analyst.


OK. I'm going to take the right financial industry people and regulators to
lunch a few dozen times, bribe as necessary, and create a new futures market
involving computer hardware. Just like the oil commodities markets, we will
allow people to fiddle in it even if they have absolutely no connection to
the computer industry. They will just be there to gamble. Within 6 months,
computers of all kinds will become so prohibitively expensive that
corporations will not be able to own more than just one or two, for use by
the head honchos. Most of your IT department will be out of work.

Price fluctuations for computers will be based on such things as:

"fear of renewed violence in Baghdad"

"unseasonal amounts of rain in Korea"

.....or just about any other drunken reason which frightens the amateur
traders in the commodity you depend on.

That's what's happening with oil. You don't believe it yet. But, it's
absolutely true. It doesn't ***ALL*** the price swings, but it explains some
of it.

On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:18:11 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:09:39 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:49:24 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:



Mind if I ask what business you're in? I'm asking because I think I can
demonstrate how YOUR business could be meddled with by people who are
totally unrelated to your business.

I'm in the retirement business, participating.
And "people" are still in my face!
I just ignore them, though.
Well, not really. The price of Cheerios ****es me off.
Ethanol taking oat acreage out of production.
Probably other factors to complain about too.
I could go on and on.
But go ahead and grind your axe.
I'll comment on the sparks if I can.

--Vic

What was your business before retirement?


IT - analyst.


OK. I'm going to take the right financial industry people and regulators to
lunch a few dozen times, bribe as necessary, and create a new futures market
involving computer hardware. Just like the oil commodities markets, we will
allow people to fiddle in it even if they have absolutely no connection to
the computer industry. They will just be there to gamble. Within 6 months,
computers of all kinds will become so prohibitively expensive that
corporations will not be able to own more than just one or two, for use by
the head honchos. Most of your IT department will be out of work.

Price fluctuations for computers will be based on such things as:

"fear of renewed violence in Baghdad"

"unseasonal amounts of rain in Korea"

....or just about any other drunken reason which frightens the amateur
traders in the commodity you depend on.

That's what's happening with oil. You don't believe it yet. But, it's
absolutely true. It doesn't ***ALL*** the price swings, but it explains some
of it.

Why do all that when you can just offshore it? Or bring in H1-B
analysts from India?
Remember that actual producers and consumers of commodities use the
futures markets to lock in prices in managing their businesses, and
that futures aren't the spot market.
The reason oil costs what it does isn't because of futures, but
because of what the market will bear. Supply and demand.
I traded oil a few times when it was around 17.00 a barrel, as purely
technical trades (chart formations) but look at it differently than
most commodities, where supply can be increased as price goes up.
If I was willing to take the risk with my retirement money, I would be
long in it right now. BTW, commodities trading replaced playing the
horses for me, and since I don't produce or use the commodity, it's
just gambling, and that's how I look at it.
I don't take the view that stock market gamblers do that I'm a patriot
because I "invest" in a mutual fund whose components I know nothing
about, such as whether or not they promote pornography, offshore jobs
that weaken America and so on.
If I buy or sell a futures contract I''m simply gambling, be it a
smart gamble or not. If I lose I don't cry about it, ask for a guv
bailout, or claim it's bad for America.
Used to be the average investor invested in stocks for dividends and
some growth, with an eye to supporting a company that reflected the
investor's values.
That's no longer true. It's only about the money.
For futures speculators it's always been about the money, but most
had the honesty to say it. Early on I would say I'm providing
liquidity to the price-finding market, oiling the gears of commerce.
The patriotic American, supporting the machinery of Capitalism.
After a few margin calls, I decided it was about the money - and the
thrill of gambling. But I can say none of my commodity trades
supported pornography or weakened America by offshoring to make a
buck.
Don't get me wrong. I'm a very small time trader, trade off and on,
and though I'm ahead about 25 grand in a bit over 20 years of trading,
my retirement money isn't large. Most of it got there the old
fashioned way - I worked, avoided debt and saved.
Hell, just driving old Chevys probably added 100k to my retirement.

--Vic

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:18:11 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:09:39 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
m...
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:49:24 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:



Mind if I ask what business you're in? I'm asking because I think I
can
demonstrate how YOUR business could be meddled with by people who are
totally unrelated to your business.

I'm in the retirement business, participating.
And "people" are still in my face!
I just ignore them, though.
Well, not really. The price of Cheerios ****es me off.
Ethanol taking oat acreage out of production.
Probably other factors to complain about too.
I could go on and on.
But go ahead and grind your axe.
I'll comment on the sparks if I can.

--Vic

What was your business before retirement?


IT - analyst.


OK. I'm going to take the right financial industry people and regulators
to
lunch a few dozen times, bribe as necessary, and create a new futures
market
involving computer hardware. Just like the oil commodities markets, we
will
allow people to fiddle in it even if they have absolutely no connection to
the computer industry. They will just be there to gamble. Within 6 months,
computers of all kinds will become so prohibitively expensive that
corporations will not be able to own more than just one or two, for use by
the head honchos. Most of your IT department will be out of work.

Price fluctuations for computers will be based on such things as:

"fear of renewed violence in Baghdad"

"unseasonal amounts of rain in Korea"

....or just about any other drunken reason which frightens the amateur
traders in the commodity you depend on.

That's what's happening with oil. You don't believe it yet. But, it's
absolutely true. It doesn't ***ALL*** the price swings, but it explains
some
of it.

Why do all that when you can just offshore it? Or bring in H1-B
analysts from India?
Remember that actual producers and consumers of commodities use the
futures markets to lock in prices in managing their businesses, and
that futures aren't the spot market.
The reason oil costs what it does isn't because of futures, but
because of what the market will bear. Supply and demand.


Wrong. You will find out otherwise in the near future.

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
news
"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:09:39 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:49:24 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:



Mind if I ask what business you're in? I'm asking because I think I can
demonstrate how YOUR business could be meddled with by people who are
totally unrelated to your business.

I'm in the retirement business, participating.
And "people" are still in my face!
I just ignore them, though.
Well, not really. The price of Cheerios ****es me off.
Ethanol taking oat acreage out of production.
Probably other factors to complain about too.
I could go on and on.
But go ahead and grind your axe.
I'll comment on the sparks if I can.

--Vic

What was your business before retirement?


IT - analyst.


OK. I'm going to take the right financial industry people and regulators
to lunch a few dozen times, bribe as necessary, and create a new futures
market involving computer hardware. Just like the oil commodities markets,
we will allow people to fiddle in it even if they have absolutely no
connection to the computer industry. They will just be there to gamble.
Within 6 months, computers of all kinds will become so prohibitively
expensive that corporations will not be able to own more than just one or
two, for use by the head honchos. Most of your IT department will be out
of work.

Price fluctuations for computers will be based on such things as:

"fear of renewed violence in Baghdad"

"unseasonal amounts of rain in Korea"

....or just about any other drunken reason which frightens the amateur
traders in the commodity you depend on.

That's what's happening with oil. You don't believe it yet. But, it's
absolutely true. It doesn't ***ALL*** the price swings, but it explains
some of it.

Not entirely true or untrue. But I would also like to point out the
devaluation of value of the greenback to the yuan, yen, euro, loonie, pound
etc. Currency dilution has a lot to do with the energy inflation you are
seeing.

And yes, it affects the importation costs of computer parts from
Taiwan/China. It now takes more green backs. About the same in other
currencies.

Take a world view, not a view that has Washington politics as the pivot
point of the universe.

"Canuck57" wrote in message
news:2csHj.133314$pM4.66453@pd7urf1no...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
news
"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:09:39 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
m...
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:49:24 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:



Mind if I ask what business you're in? I'm asking because I think I
can
demonstrate how YOUR business could be meddled with by people who are
totally unrelated to your business.

I'm in the retirement business, participating.
And "people" are still in my face!
I just ignore them, though.
Well, not really. The price of Cheerios ****es me off.
Ethanol taking oat acreage out of production.
Probably other factors to complain about too.
I could go on and on.
But go ahead and grind your axe.
I'll comment on the sparks if I can.

--Vic

What was your business before retirement?


IT - analyst.


OK. I'm going to take the right financial industry people and regulators
to lunch a few dozen times, bribe as necessary, and create a new futures
market involving computer hardware. Just like the oil commodities
markets, we will allow people to fiddle in it even if they have
absolutely no connection to the computer industry. They will just be
there to gamble. Within 6 months, computers of all kinds will become so
prohibitively expensive that corporations will not be able to own more
than just one or two, for use by the head honchos. Most of your IT
department will be out of work.

Price fluctuations for computers will be based on such things as:

"fear of renewed violence in Baghdad"

"unseasonal amounts of rain in Korea"

....or just about any other drunken reason which frightens the amateur
traders in the commodity you depend on.

That's what's happening with oil. You don't believe it yet. But, it's
absolutely true. It doesn't ***ALL*** the price swings, but it explains
some of it.

Not entirely true or untrue. But I would also like to point out the
devaluation of value of the greenback to the yuan, yen, euro, loonie,
pound etc. Currency dilution has a lot to do with the energy inflation
you are seeing.

And yes, it affects the importation costs of computer parts from
Taiwan/China. It now takes more green backs. About the same in other
currencies.

Take a world view, not a view that has Washington politics as the pivot
point of the universe.



The vast majority of raw materials and finished products are not ****ed with
by commoditity exchanges which involve amateur investors who are unrelated
to the industry using the raw materials. Why do you suppose that is?