Just couldn't resist - about being brain dead...
 

On Mar 15, 1:31 pm, John H. wrote:
"Why I Am No Longer a 'Brain-Dead Liberal' "
By Mark Alexander

Nothing annoys a liberal more than when one of their celebrated
intelligentsia defects toward the Right.

This week, yet another Leftist icon, David Mamet, announced he is coming to
his senses.

Mamet is a Tony- and Oscar-nominated playwright, screenwriter and film
director. His notable plays include Glengarry Glen Ross, which won the
Pulitzer Prize in 1984, and Speed-the-Plow. His films include The Verdict,
Wag the Dog, The Postman Always Rings Twice and Ronin (a personal
favorite). He currently writes for and produces the television show "The
Unit."

As an author and essayist, he has accrued a large and loyal following among
the Leftist glitterati.

Mamet chose to "come out" with an op-ed published by Norman Mailer's rag,
The Village Voice, entitled, "Why I am no longer a 'Brain-Dead Liberal',"
in which he outlines, in some detail, his migration from the Left.

Mamet opens his essay with a quote from macro economist John Maynard
Keynes, who responded to a challenge about his changing views, saying,
"When the facts change, I change my opinion. What do you do, sir?"

You may recall that Keynes, whose early 20th century writings advocated the
"New Deal" socialist economic policies still embraced by Democrats, was
roundly criticized for adjusting his economic opinion after free market
economist Friedrich von Hayek critiqued Keynes' 1930 Treatise on Money. In
fact, after reading Hayek's seminal condemnation of socialism, The Road to
Serfdom, Keynes proclaimed, "Morally and philosophically I find myself in
agreement with virtually the whole of it: and not only in agreement with
it, but in deeply moved agreement." (Apparently, Demos did not get the
memo.)

According to Mamet, his own transformation began when he "wrote a play
about politics, and as part of the 'writing process,' I started thinking
about politics." Now there's a novel concept for Leftist politicos,
actually "thinking about politics."

He notes that central to Leftist thinking is the precept that so much is
wrong with America, and responds, "This is, to me, the synthesis of this
worldview with which I now found myself disenchanted: that everything is
always wrong... I took the liberal view for many decades," says Mamet, "but
I believe I have changed my mind."

Mamet continues, "In my life, a brief review revealed, everything was not
always wrong, and neither was nor is always wrong in the community in which
I live, or in my country. Further, it was not always wrong in previous
communities in which I lived, and among the various and mobile classes of
which I was at various times a part. And, I wondered, how could I have
spent decades thinking that everything was always wrong... We in the United
States get from day to day under rather wonderful and privileged
circumstances--that we are not and never have been the villains that some of
the world and some of our citizens make us out to be, but that we are a
confection of normal individuals living under a spectacularly effective
compact called the Constitution, and lucky to get it."

Mamet contrasts current criticisms of President George Bush with the Left's
most revered protagonist, John F. Kennedy: "Bush got us into Iraq, JFK into
Vietnam. Bush stole the election in Florida; Kennedy stole his in Chicago.
Bush outed a CIA agent; Kennedy left hundreds of them to die in the surf at
the Bay of Pigs. Bush lied about his military service; Kennedy accepted a
Pulitzer Prize for a book written by Ted Sorenson. Bush was in bed with the
Saudis, Kennedy with the Mafia."

On capitalism: "Oh, and I began to question my hatred for 'the
Corporations,' the hatred of which, I found, was but the flip side of my
hunger for those goods and services they provide and without which we could
not live."

On the military: "And I began to question my distrust of the 'Bad, Bad
Military' of my youth, which, I saw, was then and is now made up of those
men and women who actually risk their lives to protect the rest of us from
a very hostile world."

On the Left's relentless classist rhetoric: "Classes in the United States
are mobile, not static, which is the Marxist view. That is: Immigrants came
and continue to come here penniless and can (and do) become rich; the nerd
makes a trillion dollars; the single mother, penniless and ignorant of
English, sends her two sons to college (my grandmother). On the other hand,
the rich and the children of the rich can go belly-up; the hegemony of the
railroads is appropriated by the airlines, that of the networks by the
Internet; and the individual may and probably will change status more than
once within his lifetime."

On the freedom to think: "Prior to the midterm elections, my rabbi was
taking a lot of flack. The congregation is exclusively liberal, he is a
self-described independent (read 'conservative'), and he was driving the
flock wild. Why? Because a) he never discussed politics; and b) he taught
that the quality of political discourse must be addressed first--that Jewish
law teaches that it is incumbent upon each person to hear the other fellow
out. I, like many of the liberal congregation, began, teeth grinding, to
attempt to do so. And in doing so, I recognized that I held two views of
America (politics, government, corporations, the military). One was of a
state where everything was magically wrong and must be immediately
corrected at any cost; and the other--the world in which I actually
functioned day to day--was made up of people, most of whom were reasonably
trying to maximize their comfort by getting along with each other (in the
workplace, the marketplace, the jury room, on the freeway, even at the
school-board meeting)."

He concludes, "I realized that the time had come for me to avow my
participation in that America in which I chose to live, and that that
country was not a schoolroom teaching values, but a marketplace. I began
reading not only the economics of Thomas Sowell (our greatest contemporary
philosopher) but Milton Friedman, Paul Johnson, and Shelby Steele, and a
host of conservative writers, and found that I agreed with them: a
free-market understanding of the world meshes more perfectly with my
experience than that idealistic vision I called liberalism."

Predictably, some of Mamet's former colleagues and devotees among the
ever-tolerant and inclusive ranks of mindless tin men, were quick to
condemn Mamet for his changing views: "How sad that an intelligent person
like David would write such a simplistic, downright infantile article
filled with stereotypes and lacking any substantive insight whatsoever."
"Does this mean that you've given up on democracy and thrown in with the
authoritarians?" "I had no idea Mamet could be so shallow." "Mr. Mamet is
now simply brain dead." "I'm saddened to learn David is either a liar or a
fool or both." "Mamet is a political ignoramus who hides his frustration by
lashing out at an imagined 'liberalism'."

Notably, many of his Lefty critics mentioned Mamet's faith: "Our old friend
Mamet is perhaps too rich and too Jewish." And more to the point: "It's
been apparent for quite some time that Mamet is a Zionist. This screed is
just additional evidence."

For his part, however, Mamet's essay is courageous. He joins a long list of
Leftists who have moved right, including such notables as David Horowitz,
Chris Hitchens, Norm Podhoretz, Irving Kristol, Nat Hentoff, Marvin Olasky,
Bernard Goldberg and Evan Sayet--all of whom are persona non grata among
their old colleagues.

There are also many Democrats who courageously switched political
allegiance and became outspoken conservatives, including Charlton Heston,
Strom Thurmond, Jesse Helms, Jeane Kirkpatrick, Bill Bennett, Phil Gramm,
Ben Nighthorse Campbell and Richard Shelby.

Of course, a onetime Democrat also became the 20th century's greatest
champion of conservative philosophy: Ronald Wilson Reagan.

President Reagan said, "I did not leave the Democratic Party, the
Democratic Party left me." To the millions of Americans who followed him to
the Republican Party, he said, "I know what it's like to pull the
Republican lever for the first time, because I used to be a Democrat
myself, and I can tell you it only hurts for a minute, and then it feels
great."

And a footnote: I can list countless Americans who have moved from the
ideological Left to the Right, but I am hard pressed to name a single
established conservative who has moved Left.

--
John H

You know what they say:
If you are 20 and you are not a liberal, you have no heart. If you are
40 and still a liberal, you have no brain;)

Just couldn't resist - about being brain dead...
 

John H. wrote:
“Why I Am No Longer a ‘Brain-Dead Liberal’ ”


Yes...you've devolved into plain old brain dead.

Just couldn't resist - about being brain dead...
 

“Why I Am No Longer a ‘Brain-Dead Liberal’ ”
By Mark Alexander

Nothing annoys a liberal more than when one of their celebrated
intelligentsia defects toward the Right.

This week, yet another Leftist icon, David Mamet, announced he is coming to
his senses.

Mamet is a Tony- and Oscar-nominated playwright, screenwriter and film
director. His notable plays include Glengarry Glen Ross, which won the
Pulitzer Prize in 1984, and Speed-the-Plow. His films include The Verdict,
Wag the Dog, The Postman Always Rings Twice and Ronin (a personal
favorite). He currently writes for and produces the television show “The
Unit.”

As an author and essayist, he has accrued a large and loyal following among
the Leftist glitterati.

Mamet chose to “come out” with an op-ed published by Norman Mailer’s rag,
The Village Voice, entitled, “Why I am no longer a ‘Brain-Dead Liberal’,”
in which he outlines, in some detail, his migration from the Left.

Mamet opens his essay with a quote from macro economist John Maynard
Keynes, who responded to a challenge about his changing views, saying,
“When the facts change, I change my opinion. What do you do, sir?”

You may recall that Keynes, whose early 20th century writings advocated the
“New Deal” socialist economic policies still embraced by Democrats, was
roundly criticized for adjusting his economic opinion after free market
economist Friedrich von Hayek critiqued Keynes’ 1930 Treatise on Money. In
fact, after reading Hayek’s seminal condemnation of socialism, The Road to
Serfdom, Keynes proclaimed, “Morally and philosophically I find myself in
agreement with virtually the whole of it: and not only in agreement with
it, but in deeply moved agreement.” (Apparently, Demos did not get the
memo.)

According to Mamet, his own transformation began when he “wrote a play
about politics, and as part of the ‘writing process,’ I started thinking
about politics.” Now there’s a novel concept for Leftist politicos,
actually “thinking about politics.”

He notes that central to Leftist thinking is the precept that so much is
wrong with America, and responds, “This is, to me, the synthesis of this
worldview with which I now found myself disenchanted: that everything is
always wrong... I took the liberal view for many decades,” says Mamet, “but
I believe I have changed my mind.”

Mamet continues, “In my life, a brief review revealed, everything was not
always wrong, and neither was nor is always wrong in the community in which
I live, or in my country. Further, it was not always wrong in previous
communities in which I lived, and among the various and mobile classes of
which I was at various times a part. And, I wondered, how could I have
spent decades thinking that everything was always wrong... We in the United
States get from day to day under rather wonderful and privileged
circumstances—that we are not and never have been the villains that some of
the world and some of our citizens make us out to be, but that we are a
confection of normal individuals living under a spectacularly effective
compact called the Constitution, and lucky to get it.”

Mamet contrasts current criticisms of President George Bush with the Left’s
most revered protagonist, John F. Kennedy: “Bush got us into Iraq, JFK into
Vietnam. Bush stole the election in Florida; Kennedy stole his in Chicago.
Bush outed a CIA agent; Kennedy left hundreds of them to die in the surf at
the Bay of Pigs. Bush lied about his military service; Kennedy accepted a
Pulitzer Prize for a book written by Ted Sorenson. Bush was in bed with the
Saudis, Kennedy with the Mafia.”

On capitalism: “Oh, and I began to question my hatred for ‘the
Corporations,’ the hatred of which, I found, was but the flip side of my
hunger for those goods and services they provide and without which we could
not live.”

On the military: “And I began to question my distrust of the ‘Bad, Bad
Military’ of my youth, which, I saw, was then and is now made up of those
men and women who actually risk their lives to protect the rest of us from
a very hostile world.”

On the Left’s relentless classist rhetoric: “Classes in the United States
are mobile, not static, which is the Marxist view. That is: Immigrants came
and continue to come here penniless and can (and do) become rich; the nerd
makes a trillion dollars; the single mother, penniless and ignorant of
English, sends her two sons to college (my grandmother). On the other hand,
the rich and the children of the rich can go belly-up; the hegemony of the
railroads is appropriated by the airlines, that of the networks by the
Internet; and the individual may and probably will change status more than
once within his lifetime.”

On the freedom to think: “Prior to the midterm elections, my rabbi was
taking a lot of flack. The congregation is exclusively liberal, he is a
self-described independent (read ‘conservative’), and he was driving the
flock wild. Why? Because a) he never discussed politics; and b) he taught
that the quality of political discourse must be addressed first—that Jewish
law teaches that it is incumbent upon each person to hear the other fellow
out. I, like many of the liberal congregation, began, teeth grinding, to
attempt to do so. And in doing so, I recognized that I held two views of
America (politics, government, corporations, the military). One was of a
state where everything was magically wrong and must be immediately
corrected at any cost; and the other—the world in which I actually
functioned day to day—was made up of people, most of whom were reasonably
trying to maximize their comfort by getting along with each other (in the
workplace, the marketplace, the jury room, on the freeway, even at the
school-board meeting).”

He concludes, “I realized that the time had come for me to avow my
participation in that America in which I chose to live, and that that
country was not a schoolroom teaching values, but a marketplace. I began
reading not only the economics of Thomas Sowell (our greatest contemporary
philosopher) but Milton Friedman, Paul Johnson, and Shelby Steele, and a
host of conservative writers, and found that I agreed with them: a
free-market understanding of the world meshes more perfectly with my
experience than that idealistic vision I called liberalism.”

Predictably, some of Mamet’s former colleagues and devotees among the
ever-tolerant and inclusive ranks of mindless tin men, were quick to
condemn Mamet for his changing views: “How sad that an intelligent person
like David would write such a simplistic, downright infantile article
filled with stereotypes and lacking any substantive insight whatsoever.”
“Does this mean that you’ve given up on democracy and thrown in with the
authoritarians?” “I had no idea Mamet could be so shallow.” “Mr. Mamet is
now simply brain dead.” “I’m saddened to learn David is either a liar or a
fool or both.” “Mamet is a political ignoramus who hides his frustration by
lashing out at an imagined ‘liberalism’.”

Notably, many of his Lefty critics mentioned Mamet’s faith: “Our old friend
Mamet is perhaps too rich and too Jewish.” And more to the point: “It’s
been apparent for quite some time that Mamet is a Zionist. This screed is
just additional evidence.”

For his part, however, Mamet’s essay is courageous. He joins a long list of
Leftists who have moved right, including such notables as David Horowitz,
Chris Hitchens, Norm Podhoretz, Irving Kristol, Nat Hentoff, Marvin Olasky,
Bernard Goldberg and Evan Sayet—all of whom are persona non grata among
their old colleagues.

There are also many Democrats who courageously switched political
allegiance and became outspoken conservatives, including Charlton Heston,
Strom Thurmond, Jesse Helms, Jeane Kirkpatrick, Bill Bennett, Phil Gramm,
Ben Nighthorse Campbell and Richard Shelby.

Of course, a onetime Democrat also became the 20th century’s greatest
champion of conservative philosophy: Ronald Wilson Reagan.

President Reagan said, “I did not leave the Democratic Party, the
Democratic Party left me.” To the millions of Americans who followed him to
the Republican Party, he said, “I know what it’s like to pull the
Republican lever for the first time, because I used to be a Democrat
myself, and I can tell you it only hurts for a minute, and then it feels
great.”

And a footnote: I can list countless Americans who have moved from the
ideological Left to the Right, but I am hard pressed to name a single
established conservative who has moved Left.


--
John H

Just couldn't resist - about being brain dead...
 

The truth hurts when stated by one with an intellect superior to a
one-time Lobster boat owner....

"HK" wrote in message
...
John H. wrote:
“Why I Am No Longer a ‘Brain-Dead Liberal’ ”


Yes...you've devolved into plain old brain dead.

Just couldn't resist - about being brain dead...
 

Florida born wrote:
The truth hurts when stated by one with an intellect superior to a
one-time Lobster boat owner....

"HK" wrote in message
...
John H. wrote:
“Why I Am No Longer a ‘Brain-Dead Liberal’ ”

Yes...you've devolved into plain old brain dead.



That wouldn't be Herring, who is no brighter than a fence post.

Just couldn't resist - about being brain dead...
 

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 14:41:12 -0400, "Florida born"
wrote:

The truth hurts when stated by one with an intellect superior to a
one-time Lobster boat owner....

"HK" wrote in message
...
John H. wrote:
“Why I Am No Longer a ‘Brain-Dead Liberal’ ”


Yes...you've devolved into plain old brain dead.


He's much nicer to those who will talk to him. I won't 'cause I can't abide
liars. So he's ultra ****ed. But, that's OK.
--
John H

Just couldn't resist - about being brain dead...
 

John H. wrote:
On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 14:41:12 -0400, "Florida born"
wrote:

The truth hurts when stated by one with an intellect superior to a
one-time Lobster boat owner....

"HK" wrote in message
...
John H. wrote:
“Why I Am No Longer a ‘Brain-Dead Liberal’ ”

Yes...you've devolved into plain old brain dead.

He's much nicer to those who will talk to him. I won't 'cause I can't abide
liars. So he's ultra ****ed. But, that's OK.


...snerk..

Yeah, I'm about as ultra ****ed as I would be if I didn't catch the flu
from some snot-nosed kid in a doctor's office.

Just couldn't resist - about being brain dead...
 

HK wrote:
John H. wrote:
On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 14:41:12 -0400, "Florida born"
wrote:

The truth hurts when stated by one with an intellect superior to a
one-time Lobster boat owner....

"HK" wrote in message
...
John H. wrote:
“Why I Am No Longer a ‘Brain-Dead Liberal’ ”

Yes...you've devolved into plain old brain dead.

He's much nicer to those who will talk to him. I won't 'cause I can't
abide
liars. So he's ultra ****ed. But, that's OK.


..snerk..

Yeah, I'm about as ultra ****ed as I would be if I didn't catch the flu
from some snot-nosed kid in a doctor's office.

"snerk" is getting really old and stale Harry!

Just couldn't resist - about being brain dead...
 

On Mar 15, 9:39 pm, BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
John H. wrote:
On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 14:41:12 -0400, "Florida born"
wrote:

The truth hurts when stated by one with an intellect superior to a
one-time Lobster boat owner....

"HK" wrote in message
...
John H. wrote:
"Why I Am No Longer a 'Brain-Dead Liberal' "

Yes...you've devolved into plain old brain dead.

He's much nicer to those who will talk to him. I won't 'cause I can't
abide
liars. So he's ultra ****ed. But, that's OK.

..snerk..

Yeah, I'm about as ultra ****ed as I would be if I didn't catch the flu
from some snot-nosed kid in a doctor's office.

"snerk" is getting really old and stale Harry!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It's all he's got. Well, that and his constant lies.

Just couldn't resist - about being brain dead...
 

Calif Bill wrote:
"John" wrote in message
...
"John H." wrote in message
...


Oh yes the conservatives do such a better job with the economy and the
national Debt....

Greenspan: Dark Days Ahead for the Global Economy

Those hoping for better news about the state of the U.S. economy-not to
mention the bigger picture-aren't going to hear it from former Fed chair
Alan Greenspan anytime soon, judging by his ominous forecast released
Monday.
"The current financial crisis in the US is likely to be judged in
retrospect
as the most wrenching since the end of the Second World War," Greenspan
said
in a Financial Times commentary.

"It will end eventually when home prices stabilise and with them the value
of equity in homes supporting troubled mortgage securities," he said,
referring to the meltdown in the US subprime home loan market and
subsequent
massive losses for the banks holding the debt instruments.

"The crisis will leave many casualties," he said, his remarks coming after
Bear Stearns, the fifth largest US investment house collapsed Friday and
was
taken over by JPMorgan Chase for a fraction of its value of only a week
ago.

Read more

http://www.france24.com/en/20080317-...&navi=ECONOMIE

Our printing presses for money are working overtime and there is nothing
to
back up our dollar. We are going to see the closest thing to a depression
since the 30's. Inflation will grind us to pulp.

Bush, the progenitor of this abomination will skate free and leave
devastation in his wake. There is no reckoning. No accountability.
Pity.




Pity you are clueless. Maybe you should have paid attention in Civics
class. The problem with Bush is no veto pen. But it is Congress who passes
ALL spending bills. And they went to court years ago to get a ruling that
the money HAS TO BE SPENT if they pass a spending bill. Plus they have
"Base Line Budgeting" with a built in 13% spending increase yearly. And it
is both sides of the aisle that have been munching at the feed trough. Been
a Dem controlled Congress for the last year. Spending decreased? A pox on
both parties. How the hell we can be electing anybody from Congress as
POTUS is ludicrous.




Gee, who was your choice for POTUS, Bill?

Just couldn't resist - about being brain dead...
 

Calif Bill wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
Calif Bill wrote:
"John" wrote in message
...
"John H." wrote in message
...


Oh yes the conservatives do such a better job with the economy and the
national Debt....

Greenspan: Dark Days Ahead for the Global Economy

Those hoping for better news about the state of the U.S. economy-not to
mention the bigger picture-aren't going to hear it from former Fed chair
Alan Greenspan anytime soon, judging by his ominous forecast released
Monday.
"The current financial crisis in the US is likely to be judged in
retrospect
as the most wrenching since the end of the Second World War," Greenspan
said
in a Financial Times commentary.

"It will end eventually when home prices stabilise and with them the
value
of equity in homes supporting troubled mortgage securities," he said,
referring to the meltdown in the US subprime home loan market and
subsequent
massive losses for the banks holding the debt instruments.

"The crisis will leave many casualties," he said, his remarks coming
after
Bear Stearns, the fifth largest US investment house collapsed Friday and
was
taken over by JPMorgan Chase for a fraction of its value of only a week
ago.

Read more

http://www.france24.com/en/20080317-...&navi=ECONOMIE

Our printing presses for money are working overtime and there is nothing
to
back up our dollar. We are going to see the closest thing to a
depression
since the 30's. Inflation will grind us to pulp.

Bush, the progenitor of this abomination will skate free and leave
devastation in his wake. There is no reckoning. No accountability.
Pity.



Pity you are clueless. Maybe you should have paid attention in Civics
class. The problem with Bush is no veto pen. But it is Congress who
passes ALL spending bills. And they went to court years ago to get a
ruling that the money HAS TO BE SPENT if they pass a spending bill. Plus
they have "Base Line Budgeting" with a built in 13% spending increase
yearly. And it is both sides of the aisle that have been munching at the
feed trough. Been a Dem controlled Congress for the last year. Spending
decreased? A pox on both parties. How the hell we can be electing
anybody from Congress as POTUS is ludicrous.

Gee, who was your choice for POTUS, Bill?

None of the three there now.




Oh... I'm guessing...Fred Thompson.

Just couldn't resist - about being brain dead...
 

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 11:09:21 -0800, Calif Bill wrote:


Pity you are clueless. Maybe you should have paid attention in Civics
class. The problem with Bush is no veto pen. But it is Congress who
passes ALL spending bills. And they went to court years ago to get a
ruling that the money HAS TO BE SPENT if they pass a spending bill.
Plus they have "Base Line Budgeting" with a built in 13% spending
increase yearly. And it is both sides of the aisle that have been
munching at the feed trough. Been a Dem controlled Congress for the
last year. Spending decreased? A pox on both parties. How the hell we
can be electing anybody from Congress as POTUS is ludicrous.

It isn't just Congress, it's us. We have a Governor here in NJ, who is
trying to fix our budget mess. Everybody is squawking. They all want
the other guy's pork to be cut, not theirs. We are all feeding at the
trough.

Just couldn't resist - about being brain dead...
 

"John" wrote in message
...

"John H." wrote in message
...


Oh yes the conservatives do such a better job with the economy and the
national Debt....

Greenspan: Dark Days Ahead for the Global Economy

Those hoping for better news about the state of the U.S. economy-not to
mention the bigger picture-aren't going to hear it from former Fed chair
Alan Greenspan anytime soon, judging by his ominous forecast released
Monday.
"The current financial crisis in the US is likely to be judged in
retrospect
as the most wrenching since the end of the Second World War," Greenspan
said
in a Financial Times commentary.

"It will end eventually when home prices stabilise and with them the value
of equity in homes supporting troubled mortgage securities," he said,
referring to the meltdown in the US subprime home loan market and
subsequent
massive losses for the banks holding the debt instruments.

"The crisis will leave many casualties," he said, his remarks coming after
Bear Stearns, the fifth largest US investment house collapsed Friday and
was
taken over by JPMorgan Chase for a fraction of its value of only a week
ago.

Read more

http://www.france24.com/en/20080317-...&navi=ECONOMIE

Our printing presses for money are working overtime and there is nothing
to
back up our dollar. We are going to see the closest thing to a depression
since the 30's. Inflation will grind us to pulp.

Bush, the progenitor of this abomination will skate free and leave
devastation in his wake. There is no reckoning. No accountability.
Pity.




Pity you are clueless. Maybe you should have paid attention in Civics
class. The problem with Bush is no veto pen. But it is Congress who passes
ALL spending bills. And they went to court years ago to get a ruling that
the money HAS TO BE SPENT if they pass a spending bill. Plus they have
"Base Line Budgeting" with a built in 13% spending increase yearly. And it
is both sides of the aisle that have been munching at the feed trough. Been
a Dem controlled Congress for the last year. Spending decreased? A pox on
both parties. How the hell we can be electing anybody from Congress as
POTUS is ludicrous.

Just couldn't resist - about being brain dead...
 

On Mar 17, 3:39*pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"hk" wrote in message

. ..





Calif Bill wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
Calif Bill wrote:
"John" wrote in message
. ..
"John H." wrote in message
om...

Oh yes the conservatives do such a better job with the economy and the
national Debt....

Greenspan: Dark Days Ahead for the Global Economy

Those hoping for better news about the state of the U.S. economy-not
to
mention the bigger picture-aren't going to hear it from former Fed
chair
Alan Greenspan anytime soon, judging by his ominous forecast released
Monday.
"The current financial crisis in the US is likely to be judged in
retrospect
as the most wrenching since the end of the Second World War,"
Greenspan said
in a Financial Times commentary.

"It will end eventually when home prices stabilise and with them the
value
of equity in homes supporting troubled mortgage securities," he said,
referring to the meltdown in the US subprime home loan market and
subsequent
massive losses for the banks holding the debt instruments.

"The crisis will leave many casualties," he said, his remarks coming
after
Bear Stearns, the fifth largest US investment house collapsed Friday
and was
taken over by JPMorgan Chase for a fraction of its value of only a
week ago.

Read more

http://www.france24.com/en/20080317-...-wrenching-194....

Our printing presses for money are working overtime and there is
nothing to
back up our dollar. *We are going to see the closest thing to a
depression
since the 30's. *Inflation will grind us to pulp.

Bush, the progenitor of this abomination will skate free and leave
devastation in his wake. *There is no reckoning. *No accountability.
Pity.

Pity you are clueless. *Maybe you should have paid attention in Civics
class. *The problem with Bush is no veto pen. *But it is Congress who
passes ALL spending bills. *And they went to court years ago to get a
ruling that the money HAS TO BE SPENT if they pass a spending bill.
Plus they have "Base Line Budgeting" with a built in 13% spending
increase yearly. *And it is both sides of the aisle that have been
munching at the feed trough. *Been a Dem controlled Congress for the
last year. *Spending decreased? *A pox on both parties. *How the hell
we can be electing anybody from Congress as POTUS is ludicrous.

Gee, who was your choice for POTUS, Bill?

None of the three there now.

Oh... I'm guessing...Fred Thompson.

You guess wrong again.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Harry doesn't guess, he just throws inane blather out there. Next
he'll start calling names and issuing petty insults because you don't
agree with him. Just watch!

Just couldn't resist - about being brain dead...
 

"HK" wrote in message
...
Calif Bill wrote:
"John" wrote in message
...
"John H." wrote in message
...


Oh yes the conservatives do such a better job with the economy and the
national Debt....

Greenspan: Dark Days Ahead for the Global Economy

Those hoping for better news about the state of the U.S. economy-not to
mention the bigger picture-aren't going to hear it from former Fed chair
Alan Greenspan anytime soon, judging by his ominous forecast released
Monday.
"The current financial crisis in the US is likely to be judged in
retrospect
as the most wrenching since the end of the Second World War," Greenspan
said
in a Financial Times commentary.

"It will end eventually when home prices stabilise and with them the
value
of equity in homes supporting troubled mortgage securities," he said,
referring to the meltdown in the US subprime home loan market and
subsequent
massive losses for the banks holding the debt instruments.

"The crisis will leave many casualties," he said, his remarks coming
after
Bear Stearns, the fifth largest US investment house collapsed Friday and
was
taken over by JPMorgan Chase for a fraction of its value of only a week
ago.

Read more

http://www.france24.com/en/20080317-...&navi=ECONOMIE

Our printing presses for money are working overtime and there is nothing
to
back up our dollar. We are going to see the closest thing to a
depression
since the 30's. Inflation will grind us to pulp.

Bush, the progenitor of this abomination will skate free and leave
devastation in his wake. There is no reckoning. No accountability.
Pity.




Pity you are clueless. Maybe you should have paid attention in Civics
class. The problem with Bush is no veto pen. But it is Congress who
passes ALL spending bills. And they went to court years ago to get a
ruling that the money HAS TO BE SPENT if they pass a spending bill. Plus
they have "Base Line Budgeting" with a built in 13% spending increase
yearly. And it is both sides of the aisle that have been munching at the
feed trough. Been a Dem controlled Congress for the last year. Spending
decreased? A pox on both parties. How the hell we can be electing
anybody from Congress as POTUS is ludicrous.


Gee, who was your choice for POTUS, Bill?

None of the three there now.

Just couldn't resist - about being brain dead...
 

Calif Bill wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Calif Bill wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
Calif Bill wrote:
"John" wrote in message
...
"John H." wrote in message
...


Oh yes the conservatives do such a better job with the economy and the
national Debt....

Greenspan: Dark Days Ahead for the Global Economy

Those hoping for better news about the state of the U.S. economy-not
to
mention the bigger picture-aren't going to hear it from former Fed
chair
Alan Greenspan anytime soon, judging by his ominous forecast released
Monday.
"The current financial crisis in the US is likely to be judged in
retrospect
as the most wrenching since the end of the Second World War,"
Greenspan said
in a Financial Times commentary.

"It will end eventually when home prices stabilise and with them the
value
of equity in homes supporting troubled mortgage securities," he said,
referring to the meltdown in the US subprime home loan market and
subsequent
massive losses for the banks holding the debt instruments.

"The crisis will leave many casualties," he said, his remarks coming
after
Bear Stearns, the fifth largest US investment house collapsed Friday
and was
taken over by JPMorgan Chase for a fraction of its value of only a
week ago.

Read more

http://www.france24.com/en/20080317-...&navi=ECONOMIE

Our printing presses for money are working overtime and there is
nothing to
back up our dollar. We are going to see the closest thing to a
depression
since the 30's. Inflation will grind us to pulp.

Bush, the progenitor of this abomination will skate free and leave
devastation in his wake. There is no reckoning. No accountability.
Pity.



Pity you are clueless. Maybe you should have paid attention in Civics
class. The problem with Bush is no veto pen. But it is Congress who
passes ALL spending bills. And they went to court years ago to get a
ruling that the money HAS TO BE SPENT if they pass a spending bill.
Plus they have "Base Line Budgeting" with a built in 13% spending
increase yearly. And it is both sides of the aisle that have been
munching at the feed trough. Been a Dem controlled Congress for the
last year. Spending decreased? A pox on both parties. How the hell
we can be electing anybody from Congress as POTUS is ludicrous.
Gee, who was your choice for POTUS, Bill?
None of the three there now.

Oh... I'm guessing...Fred Thompson.

You guess wrong again.



Oh well...that was about the extent of my interest in your choice of
candidate...one guess.

Just couldn't resist - about being brain dead...
 

"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Calif Bill wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
Calif Bill wrote:
"John" wrote in message
...
"John H." wrote in message
...


Oh yes the conservatives do such a better job with the economy and the
national Debt....

Greenspan: Dark Days Ahead for the Global Economy

Those hoping for better news about the state of the U.S. economy-not
to
mention the bigger picture-aren't going to hear it from former Fed
chair
Alan Greenspan anytime soon, judging by his ominous forecast released
Monday.
"The current financial crisis in the US is likely to be judged in
retrospect
as the most wrenching since the end of the Second World War,"
Greenspan said
in a Financial Times commentary.

"It will end eventually when home prices stabilise and with them the
value
of equity in homes supporting troubled mortgage securities," he said,
referring to the meltdown in the US subprime home loan market and
subsequent
massive losses for the banks holding the debt instruments.

"The crisis will leave many casualties," he said, his remarks coming
after
Bear Stearns, the fifth largest US investment house collapsed Friday
and was
taken over by JPMorgan Chase for a fraction of its value of only a
week ago.

Read more

http://www.france24.com/en/20080317-...&navi=ECONOMIE

Our printing presses for money are working overtime and there is
nothing to
back up our dollar. We are going to see the closest thing to a
depression
since the 30's. Inflation will grind us to pulp.

Bush, the progenitor of this abomination will skate free and leave
devastation in his wake. There is no reckoning. No accountability.
Pity.



Pity you are clueless. Maybe you should have paid attention in Civics
class. The problem with Bush is no veto pen. But it is Congress who
passes ALL spending bills. And they went to court years ago to get a
ruling that the money HAS TO BE SPENT if they pass a spending bill.
Plus they have "Base Line Budgeting" with a built in 13% spending
increase yearly. And it is both sides of the aisle that have been
munching at the feed trough. Been a Dem controlled Congress for the
last year. Spending decreased? A pox on both parties. How the hell
we can be electing anybody from Congress as POTUS is ludicrous.

Gee, who was your choice for POTUS, Bill?

None of the three there now.


Oh... I'm guessing...Fred Thompson.

You guess wrong again.

Just couldn't resist - about being brain dead...
 

wrote in message
...


It isn't just Congress, it's us. We have a Governor here in NJ, who is
trying to fix our budget mess. Everybody is squawking. They all want
the other guy's pork to be cut, not theirs. We are all feeding at the
trough.

Yup. And people who bought houses with interest only loans thinking they
could "flip" it in a couple of years at a big profit are now blaming Bush
for the mess they are in.

It could have just as easily been Clinton at the helm. People like to blame
everyone else for their own screw-ups.


Eisboch

Just couldn't resist - about being brain dead...
 

Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message
...

It isn't just Congress, it's us. We have a Governor here in NJ, who is
trying to fix our budget mess. Everybody is squawking. They all want
the other guy's pork to be cut, not theirs. We are all feeding at the
trough.

Yup. And people who bought houses with interest only loans thinking they
could "flip" it in a couple of years at a big profit are now blaming Bush
for the mess they are in.

It could have just as easily been Clinton at the helm. People like to blame
everyone else for their own screw-ups.


Eisboch



More than a year ago, the financial sector was issuing very serious
warnings about the problems of these sorts of loans, along with the
problems of the sales of subprime mortgage instruments. A more engaged
administration might have expressed enough interest and concern to see
if something needed to be done. Being "cheerleader in chief" isn't
enough when the economy is heading into the crapper.

Just couldn't resist - about being brain dead...
 

"hk" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message
...

It isn't just Congress, it's us. We have a Governor here in NJ, who is
trying to fix our budget mess. Everybody is squawking. They all want
the other guy's pork to be cut, not theirs. We are all feeding at the
trough.

Yup. And people who bought houses with interest only loans thinking they
could "flip" it in a couple of years at a big profit are now blaming Bush
for the mess they are in.

It could have just as easily been Clinton at the helm. People like to
blame everyone else for their own screw-ups.


Eisboch

More than a year ago, the financial sector was issuing very serious
warnings about the problems of these sorts of loans, along with the
problems of the sales of subprime mortgage instruments. A more engaged
administration might have expressed enough interest and concern to see if
something needed to be done. Being "cheerleader in chief" isn't enough
when the economy is heading into the crapper.


The POTUS isn't a babysitter for our personal lives and investments. Or at
least he/she shouldn't be. In a free society, adults are responsible to
research risks, weigh the advice of experts and be responsible for their
choices.

If those collective choices lead to a significant risk to the *US* financial
structure as a whole, then the POTUS should act, as Bush did this weekend,
supporting the sale of Bear Stearns.

Eisboch

Just couldn't resist - about being brain dead...
 

Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message
...

It isn't just Congress, it's us. We have a Governor here in NJ, who is
trying to fix our budget mess. Everybody is squawking. They all want
the other guy's pork to be cut, not theirs. We are all feeding at the
trough.
Yup. And people who bought houses with interest only loans thinking they
could "flip" it in a couple of years at a big profit are now blaming Bush
for the mess they are in.

It could have just as easily been Clinton at the helm. People like to
blame everyone else for their own screw-ups.


Eisboch
More than a year ago, the financial sector was issuing very serious
warnings about the problems of these sorts of loans, along with the
problems of the sales of subprime mortgage instruments. A more engaged
administration might have expressed enough interest and concern to see if
something needed to be done. Being "cheerleader in chief" isn't enough
when the economy is heading into the crapper.


The POTUS isn't a babysitter for our personal lives and investments. Or at
least he/she shouldn't be. In a free society, adults are responsible to
research risks, weigh the advice of experts and be responsible for their
choices.

If those collective choices lead to a significant risk to the *US* financial
structure as a whole, then the POTUS should act, as Bush did this weekend,
supporting the sale of Bear Stearns.

Eisboch




I see. Help the rich retain what they have, screw the little guy.

Just couldn't resist - about being brain dead...
 

"hk" wrote in message
. ..


The POTUS isn't a babysitter for our personal lives and investments. Or
at least he/she shouldn't be. In a free society, adults are
responsible to research risks, weigh the advice of experts and be
responsible for their choices.

If those collective choices lead to a significant risk to the *US*
financial structure as a whole, then the POTUS should act, as Bush did
this weekend, supporting the sale of Bear Stearns.

Eisboch


I see. Help the rich retain what they have, screw the little guy.


Name one person who got or remained "rich" from the Stearns bailout.

Eisboch

Just couldn't resist - about being brain dead...
 

"hk" wrote in message
. ..


More than a year ago, the financial sector was issuing very serious
warnings about the problems of these sorts of loans, along with the
problems of the sales of subprime mortgage instruments. A more engaged
administration might have expressed enough interest and concern to see
if something needed to be done. Being "cheerleader in chief" isn't
enough when the economy is heading into the crapper.




Eisboch wrote:

The POTUS isn't a babysitter for our personal lives and investments. Or
at least he/she shouldn't be. In a free society, adults are
responsible to research risks, weigh the advice of experts and be
responsible for their choices.

If those collective choices lead to a significant risk to the *US*
financial structure as a whole, then the POTUS should act, as Bush did
this weekend, supporting the sale of Bear Stearns.

Eisboch


I see. Help the rich retain what they have, screw the little guy.



This is the core of conservative versus liberal philosophy differences.

Liberals tend to put the responsibility for their personal welfare on the
government.
Conservatives tend to assume responsibility for their own personal welfare.

The role of the government is to ensure those choices continue to exist.

Eisboch

Just couldn't resist - about being brain dead...
 

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 16:19:18 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


"hk" wrote in message
...


The POTUS isn't a babysitter for our personal lives and investments. Or
at least he/she shouldn't be. In a free society, adults are
responsible to research risks, weigh the advice of experts and be
responsible for their choices.

If those collective choices lead to a significant risk to the *US*
financial structure as a whole, then the POTUS should act, as Bush did
this weekend, supporting the sale of Bear Stearns.

I see. Help the rich retain what they have, screw the little guy.

Name one person who got or remained "rich" from the Stearns bailout.

Jamie Dimond. :)

Look - everybody was looking for a quick buck. The brokers, the home
buyers, the securities industry - it was a classic bubble. Everybody
was buying into the never ending increase in real estate prices.
Nobody in Congress saw it coming and the securities industry was on a
huge roll with complicated securities and derivatives. I saw a
prospectus in 2003 for a SIV which was 132 pages long - that was the
detailed base agreement. The CDO squared attached was 281 pages long,
the CDO cubed was 857 pages long, etc. It was sliced and diced and
leveraged to such an extent that you couldn't understand the base
economics. Yet, they kept selling the products and morons kept buying
the products.

That's what did everybody in - greed on the loan broker's, greed on
the home owner's and greed on the securities people. Nobody saw it
coming because nobody understood it.

Somebody had to take the hit. Bear Sterns took the hit - that's
business. They, and their employees, got bit in the ass. That's
life. Financial planners tell people over and over and over - never
ever believe anything you are told - look at the fundamentals, do your
research, figure not on the best that can happen, but the worst that
can happen. Balance that risk against your ability to take the hit if
everything goes teats up. If you can stand to take the hit, then
balance that against the upside potential in terms of percentage of
gain against percentage of loss. Then make your bet.

If there was one single aspect of this whole mess, it was this.
Everybody thought they were the casino, not the mark.

Whoops. :)

Just couldn't resist - about being brain dead...
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...


Look - everybody was looking for a quick buck. The brokers, the home
buyers, the securities industry - it was a classic bubble. Everybody
was buying into the never ending increase in real estate prices.
Nobody in Congress saw it coming and the securities industry was on a
huge roll with complicated securities and derivatives. I saw a
prospectus in 2003 for a SIV which was 132 pages long - that was the
detailed base agreement. The CDO squared attached was 281 pages long,
the CDO cubed was 857 pages long, etc. It was sliced and diced and
leveraged to such an extent that you couldn't understand the base
economics. Yet, they kept selling the products and morons kept buying
the products.

That's what did everybody in - greed on the loan broker's, greed on
the home owner's and greed on the securities people. Nobody saw it
coming because nobody understood it.

Somebody had to take the hit. Bear Sterns took the hit - that's
business. They, and their employees, got bit in the ass. That's
life. Financial planners tell people over and over and over - never
ever believe anything you are told - look at the fundamentals, do your
research, figure not on the best that can happen, but the worst that
can happen. Balance that risk against your ability to take the hit if
everything goes teats up. If you can stand to take the hit, then
balance that against the upside potential in terms of percentage of
gain against percentage of loss. Then make your bet.

If there was one single aspect of this whole mess, it was this.
Everybody thought they were the casino, not the mark.

Whoops. :)


Well put. ........ ( I think.)

Eisboch

Just couldn't resist - about being brain dead...
 

On Mar 17, 5:04*pm, "John" wrote:
wrote in message

...

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 11:09:21 -0800, Calif Bill wrote:

It isn't just Congress, it's us. *We have a Governor here in NJ, who is
trying to fix our budget mess. *Everybody is squawking. *They all want
the other guy's pork to be cut, not theirs. *We are all feeding at the
trough.

Exactly correct - both parties do it, the biggest difference is where the
pork goes and the size of it. *The democrats flip pork to infrastructure
type companies - which by the way does create jobs. *Republicans flip the
pork to the MIC and oil companies - this did not start with Bush.
Size difference - how loud would you conservative type folks screamed if
Bill Clinton simply GAVE 12 BILLION in CASH to his favorite supporter? *That
is exactly what Bush did, he flew 12 billion in cash into the open waiting
hands of he military contractors. *Our troops did not have Armour for their
humvees or body Armour - but military contractors got 12 billion in cash....

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/f...billions200710

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security...05/0629appalli...

Is anyone surprised that out of the three main candidats, only Billary
will not list their earmarks history?

Just couldn't resist - about being brain dead...
 

wrote in message
...
On Mar 17, 5:04 pm, "John" wrote:
wrote in message

...

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 11:09:21 -0800, Calif Bill wrote:

It isn't just Congress, it's us. We have a Governor here in NJ, who is
trying to fix our budget mess. Everybody is squawking. They all want
the other guy's pork to be cut, not theirs. We are all feeding at the
trough.

Exactly correct - both parties do it, the biggest difference is where the
pork goes and the size of it. The democrats flip pork to infrastructure
type companies - which by the way does create jobs. Republicans flip the
pork to the MIC and oil companies - this did not start with Bush.
Size difference - how loud would you conservative type folks screamed if
Bill Clinton simply GAVE 12 BILLION in CASH to his favorite supporter?
That
is exactly what Bush did, he flew 12 billion in cash into the open waiting
hands of he military contractors. Our troops did not have Armour for their
humvees or body Armour - but military contractors got 12 billion in
cash...

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/f...billions200710

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security...05/0629appalli...

Is anyone surprised that out of the three main candidats, only Billary
will not list their earmarks history?
=================================

Here's on she didn't get.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,303376,00.html

Just couldn't resist - about being brain dead...
 

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 16:27:04 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


"hk" wrote in message
...


More than a year ago, the financial sector was issuing very serious
warnings about the problems of these sorts of loans, along with the
problems of the sales of subprime mortgage instruments. A more engaged
administration might have expressed enough interest and concern to see
if something needed to be done. Being "cheerleader in chief" isn't
enough when the economy is heading into the crapper.

Eisboch wrote:

The POTUS isn't a babysitter for our personal lives and investments. Or
at least he/she shouldn't be. In a free society, adults are
responsible to research risks, weigh the advice of experts and be
responsible for their choices.

If those collective choices lead to a significant risk to the *US*
financial structure as a whole, then the POTUS should act, as Bush did
this weekend, supporting the sale of Bear Stearns.

I see. Help the rich retain what they have, screw the little guy.

This is the core of conservative versus liberal philosophy differences.

Liberals tend to put the responsibility for their personal welfare on the
government.
Conservatives tend to assume responsibility for their own personal welfare.

The role of the government is to ensure those choices continue to exist.

Absolutely. And, to their credit, that's what the FOMC did today.

For all his reluctance to recognize the base problem, Bernacke finally
got it right. You protect the market because that's the economic
engine for the world. If you don't believe it, check what happened in
overseas trading yesterday and what's happening right now.

The one area I think they are making a mistake is not taking the
current non-performing ARMs off the market and establishing a value
floor. Part of the problem is that nobody can make a market for the
mortgage securities because nobody knows how to value them - the good
is mixed with the bad because of the structured nature of the
underlying securities. To my way of thinking (which oddly is in total
agreement with Senator Dodd and Representative Frank), the best way is
to go to the servicers and value the non performing and performing
mortgages. Take the performing mortgages out of the loop and sell
them to other investors and the under performing or non-performing
mortgages and junk bond them. The taxpayer will win because the
government will be making money.

You know, the odd thing about this Stearns bailout is that the
government is actually in the position of making money off the 30
billion security - about 2 billion in return.

That's how government should work I think in managing markets.

Just couldn't resist - about being brain dead...
 

"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message
...

It isn't just Congress, it's us. We have a Governor here in NJ, who
is
trying to fix our budget mess. Everybody is squawking. They all want
the other guy's pork to be cut, not theirs. We are all feeding at the
trough.
Yup. And people who bought houses with interest only loans thinking
they could "flip" it in a couple of years at a big profit are now
blaming Bush for the mess they are in.

It could have just as easily been Clinton at the helm. People like to
blame everyone else for their own screw-ups.


Eisboch
More than a year ago, the financial sector was issuing very serious
warnings about the problems of these sorts of loans, along with the
problems of the sales of subprime mortgage instruments. A more engaged
administration might have expressed enough interest and concern to see
if something needed to be done. Being "cheerleader in chief" isn't
enough when the economy is heading into the crapper.


The POTUS isn't a babysitter for our personal lives and investments. Or
at least he/she shouldn't be. In a free society, adults are
responsible to research risks, weigh the advice of experts and be
responsible for their choices.

If those collective choices lead to a significant risk to the *US*
financial structure as a whole, then the POTUS should act, as Bush did
this weekend, supporting the sale of Bear Stearns.

Eisboch


I see. Help the rich retain what they have, screw the little guy.

The government isn't your baby sitter.

Just couldn't resist - about being brain dead...
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"hk" wrote in message
. ..


The POTUS isn't a babysitter for our personal lives and investments.
Or at least he/she shouldn't be. In a free society, adults are
responsible to research risks, weigh the advice of experts and be
responsible for their choices.

If those collective choices lead to a significant risk to the *US*
financial structure as a whole, then the POTUS should act, as Bush did
this weekend, supporting the sale of Bear Stearns.

Eisboch


I see. Help the rich retain what they have, screw the little guy.


Name one person who got or remained "rich" from the Stearns bailout.

Eisboch

Someone who was/is short Stearns stock?

Just couldn't resist - about being brain dead...
 

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 11:09:21 -0800, Calif Bill wrote:


Pity you are clueless. Maybe you should have paid attention in Civics
class. The problem with Bush is no veto pen. But it is Congress who
passes ALL spending bills. And they went to court years ago to get a
ruling that the money HAS TO BE SPENT if they pass a spending bill.
Plus they have "Base Line Budgeting" with a built in 13% spending
increase yearly. And it is both sides of the aisle that have been
munching at the feed trough. Been a Dem controlled Congress for the
last year. Spending decreased? A pox on both parties. How the hell we
can be electing anybody from Congress as POTUS is ludicrous.

It isn't just Congress, it's us. We have a Governor here in NJ, who is
trying to fix our budget mess. Everybody is squawking. They all want
the other guy's pork to be cut, not theirs. We are all feeding at the
trough.

Is it the citizens, or the other politicians? Or the special interest
groups that are wallowing in the pork? Probably not the citizens paying the
bills.

Just couldn't resist - about being brain dead...
 

"John" wrote in message
...

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...

"John" wrote in message
...

"John H." wrote in message
...


Oh yes the conservatives do such a better job with the economy and the
national Debt....

Greenspan: Dark Days Ahead for the Global Economy

Those hoping for better news about the state of the U.S. economy-not to
mention the bigger picture-aren't going to hear it from former Fed chair
Alan Greenspan anytime soon, judging by his ominous forecast released
Monday.
"The current financial crisis in the US is likely to be judged in
retrospect
as the most wrenching since the end of the Second World War," Greenspan
said
in a Financial Times commentary.

"It will end eventually when home prices stabilise and with them the
value
of equity in homes supporting troubled mortgage securities," he said,
referring to the meltdown in the US subprime home loan market and
subsequent
massive losses for the banks holding the debt instruments.

"The crisis will leave many casualties," he said, his remarks coming
after
Bear Stearns, the fifth largest US investment house collapsed Friday and
was
taken over by JPMorgan Chase for a fraction of its value of only a week
ago.

Read more

http://www.france24.com/en/20080317-...&navi=ECONOMIE

Our printing presses for money are working overtime and there is nothing
to
back up our dollar. We are going to see the closest thing to a
depression
since the 30's. Inflation will grind us to pulp.

Bush, the progenitor of this abomination will skate free and leave
devastation in his wake. There is no reckoning. No accountability.
Pity.




Pity you are clueless. Maybe you should have paid attention in Civics
class. The problem with Bush is no veto pen. But it is Congress who
passes ALL spending bills.

Pity you have swallowed all of the rhetoric without thinking for yourself.
Actions speak louder than words, and numbers say all.
http://zfacts.com/p/318.html
Which party had a total lock on the senate, congress and presidency from
2000-2006?



And 2007? And the years before 2000? The only reason that the Clinton
years were a near balanced budget is the reduced spending by the
Republican's under Newt for a couple of years and the obscene amount of
money coming into Government coffers from the dot.bomb debacle. Came in
faster than they could increase spending. Part of the debt for the last 7
years was all the new programs instituted during those years. As I stated,
Congress has to pass any spending bill, and both sides of the aisle have
overspent for most of my 65 years of life. Sure the debt has increased
greatly during the last 7 years, but is was immense before those 7 years.
As I stated. How cas we elect anybody from Congress as Potus is idiocy!

Just couldn't resist - about being brain dead...
 

"HK" wrote in message
. ..
Calif Bill wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Calif Bill wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
Calif Bill wrote:
"John" wrote in message
...
"John H." wrote in message
...


Oh yes the conservatives do such a better job with the economy and
the national Debt....

Greenspan: Dark Days Ahead for the Global Economy

Those hoping for better news about the state of the U.S. economy-not
to
mention the bigger picture-aren't going to hear it from former Fed
chair
Alan Greenspan anytime soon, judging by his ominous forecast
released
Monday.
"The current financial crisis in the US is likely to be judged in
retrospect
as the most wrenching since the end of the Second World War,"
Greenspan said
in a Financial Times commentary.

"It will end eventually when home prices stabilise and with them the
value
of equity in homes supporting troubled mortgage securities," he
said,
referring to the meltdown in the US subprime home loan market and
subsequent
massive losses for the banks holding the debt instruments.

"The crisis will leave many casualties," he said, his remarks coming
after
Bear Stearns, the fifth largest US investment house collapsed Friday
and was
taken over by JPMorgan Chase for a fraction of its value of only a
week ago.

Read more

http://www.france24.com/en/20080317-...&navi=ECONOMIE

Our printing presses for money are working overtime and there is
nothing to
back up our dollar. We are going to see the closest thing to a
depression
since the 30's. Inflation will grind us to pulp.

Bush, the progenitor of this abomination will skate free and leave
devastation in his wake. There is no reckoning. No accountability.
Pity.



Pity you are clueless. Maybe you should have paid attention in
Civics class. The problem with Bush is no veto pen. But it is
Congress who passes ALL spending bills. And they went to court years
ago to get a ruling that the money HAS TO BE SPENT if they pass a
spending bill. Plus they have "Base Line Budgeting" with a built in
13% spending increase yearly. And it is both sides of the aisle that
have been munching at the feed trough. Been a Dem controlled
Congress for the last year. Spending decreased? A pox on both
parties. How the hell we can be electing anybody from Congress as
POTUS is ludicrous.
Gee, who was your choice for POTUS, Bill?
None of the three there now.

Oh... I'm guessing...Fred Thompson.

You guess wrong again.

Oh well...that was about the extent of my interest in your choice of
candidate...one guess.

Another lie.

Just couldn't resist - about being brain dead...
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...


Look - everybody was looking for a quick buck. The brokers, the home
buyers, the securities industry - it was a classic bubble. Everybody
was buying into the never ending increase in real estate prices.
Nobody in Congress saw it coming and the securities industry was on a
huge roll with complicated securities and derivatives. I saw a
prospectus in 2003 for a SIV which was 132 pages long - that was the
detailed base agreement. The CDO squared attached was 281 pages long,
the CDO cubed was 857 pages long, etc. It was sliced and diced and
leveraged to such an extent that you couldn't understand the base
economics. Yet, they kept selling the products and morons kept buying
the products.

That's what did everybody in - greed on the loan broker's, greed on
the home owner's and greed on the securities people. Nobody saw it
coming because nobody understood it.

Somebody had to take the hit. Bear Sterns took the hit - that's
business. They, and their employees, got bit in the ass. That's
life. Financial planners tell people over and over and over - never
ever believe anything you are told - look at the fundamentals, do your
research, figure not on the best that can happen, but the worst that
can happen. Balance that risk against your ability to take the hit if
everything goes teats up. If you can stand to take the hit, then
balance that against the upside potential in terms of percentage of
gain against percentage of loss. Then make your bet.

If there was one single aspect of this whole mess, it was this.
Everybody thought they were the casino, not the mark.

Whoops. :)


Well put. ........ ( I think.)

Eisboch


And the same thing happened under the former administration. Unbridled
greed in the tech securities market. Buy an IPO and sell it in 3 months for
10x profit. Where was the Fed and the SEC in controlling the Ponzi market?
Seems as if no one in government paid attention to history.

Just couldn't resist - about being brain dead...
 

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...

"John" wrote in message
...

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...

"John" wrote in message
...

"John H." wrote in message
...


Oh yes the conservatives do such a better job with the economy and the
national Debt....

Greenspan: Dark Days Ahead for the Global Economy

Those hoping for better news about the state of the U.S. economy-not to
mention the bigger picture-aren't going to hear it from former Fed
chair
Alan Greenspan anytime soon, judging by his ominous forecast released
Monday.
"The current financial crisis in the US is likely to be judged in
retrospect
as the most wrenching since the end of the Second World War," Greenspan
said
in a Financial Times commentary.

"It will end eventually when home prices stabilise and with them the
value
of equity in homes supporting troubled mortgage securities," he said,
referring to the meltdown in the US subprime home loan market and
subsequent
massive losses for the banks holding the debt instruments.

"The crisis will leave many casualties," he said, his remarks coming
after
Bear Stearns, the fifth largest US investment house collapsed Friday
and was
taken over by JPMorgan Chase for a fraction of its value of only a week
ago.

Read more

http://www.france24.com/en/20080317-...&navi=ECONOMIE

Our printing presses for money are working overtime and there is
nothing to
back up our dollar. We are going to see the closest thing to a
depression
since the 30's. Inflation will grind us to pulp.

Bush, the progenitor of this abomination will skate free and leave
devastation in his wake. There is no reckoning. No accountability.
Pity.




Pity you are clueless. Maybe you should have paid attention in Civics
class. The problem with Bush is no veto pen. But it is Congress who
passes ALL spending bills.

Pity you have swallowed all of the rhetoric without thinking for
yourself.
Actions speak louder than words, and numbers say all.
http://zfacts.com/p/318.html
Which party had a total lock on the senate, congress and presidency from
2000-2006?



And 2007? And the years before 2000? The only reason that the Clinton
years were a near balanced budget is the reduced spending by the
Republican's under Newt for a couple of years and the obscene amount of
money coming into Government coffers from the dot.bomb debacle. Came in
faster than they could increase spending. Part of the debt for the last 7
years was all the new programs instituted during those years. As I
stated, Congress has to pass any spending bill, and both sides of the
aisle have overspent for most of my 65 years of life. Sure the debt has
increased greatly during the last 7 years, but is was immense before those
7 years. As I stated. How cas we elect anybody from Congress as Potus is
idiocy!


"....the obscene amount of money coming into Government coffers from the
dot.bomb debacle."

How did the dot.com enterprises load up the treasury when they didn't make
any money and surely paid no taxes?

Just couldn't resist - about being brain dead...
 

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 16:09:40 -0400, Eisboch wrote:


The POTUS isn't a babysitter for our personal lives and investments.
Or at least he/she shouldn't be. In a free society, adults are
responsible to research risks, weigh the advice of experts and be
responsible for their choices.

And Bear Stearns isn't? I don't get it. Last year, Wall Street paid $38
billion in bonuses. Perhaps, they should take up a collection for Bear.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=ahE8xVisWsbE




If those collective choices lead to a significant risk to the *US*
financial structure as a whole, then the POTUS should act, as Bush did
this weekend, supporting the sale of Bear Stearns.

May be a very bad precedent. Investment houses have gone bust before.
I see no reason to be bailing out Bear Stearns.

Just couldn't resist - about being brain dead...
 

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 11:20:35 -0000, wrote:

May be a very bad precedent. Investment houses have gone bust before.
I see no reason to be bailing out Bear Stearns.

Wrong oh mighty intertubes search expert.

Look up the financial crash of 1907.

Just couldn't resist - about being brain dead...
 

"D.Duck" wrote in message
...

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...

"John" wrote in message
...

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...

"John" wrote in message
...

"John H." wrote in message
...


Oh yes the conservatives do such a better job with the economy and the
national Debt....

Greenspan: Dark Days Ahead for the Global Economy

Those hoping for better news about the state of the U.S. economy-not
to
mention the bigger picture-aren't going to hear it from former Fed
chair
Alan Greenspan anytime soon, judging by his ominous forecast released
Monday.
"The current financial crisis in the US is likely to be judged in
retrospect
as the most wrenching since the end of the Second World War,"
Greenspan said
in a Financial Times commentary.

"It will end eventually when home prices stabilise and with them the
value
of equity in homes supporting troubled mortgage securities," he said,
referring to the meltdown in the US subprime home loan market and
subsequent
massive losses for the banks holding the debt instruments.

"The crisis will leave many casualties," he said, his remarks coming
after
Bear Stearns, the fifth largest US investment house collapsed Friday
and was
taken over by JPMorgan Chase for a fraction of its value of only a
week ago.

Read more

http://www.france24.com/en/20080317-...&navi=ECONOMIE

Our printing presses for money are working overtime and there is
nothing to
back up our dollar. We are going to see the closest thing to a
depression
since the 30's. Inflation will grind us to pulp.

Bush, the progenitor of this abomination will skate free and leave
devastation in his wake. There is no reckoning. No accountability.
Pity.




Pity you are clueless. Maybe you should have paid attention in Civics
class. The problem with Bush is no veto pen. But it is Congress who
passes ALL spending bills.

Pity you have swallowed all of the rhetoric without thinking for
yourself.
Actions speak louder than words, and numbers say all.
http://zfacts.com/p/318.html
Which party had a total lock on the senate, congress and presidency from
2000-2006?



And 2007? And the years before 2000? The only reason that the Clinton
years were a near balanced budget is the reduced spending by the
Republican's under Newt for a couple of years and the obscene amount of
money coming into Government coffers from the dot.bomb debacle. Came in
faster than they could increase spending. Part of the debt for the last
7 years was all the new programs instituted during those years. As I
stated, Congress has to pass any spending bill, and both sides of the
aisle have overspent for most of my 65 years of life. Sure the debt has
increased greatly during the last 7 years, but is was immense before
those 7 years. As I stated. How cas we elect anybody from Congress as
Potus is idiocy!


"....the obscene amount of money coming into Government coffers from the
dot.bomb debacle."

How did the dot.com enterprises load up the treasury when they didn't make
any money and surely paid no taxes?



Soon as you accepted those IPO shares, you owed 28% immediatly to the
government. That is the first part of the money. Then April 15, all that
paper money you showed the day the shares were issued, is now ordinary
income. Even if the shares were worth nothing at the end of the year. Huge
amounts of money came into the treasury from all those IPO's. California,
increased spending with all those windfall monies and now we are stuck with
the programs and not extra money. In California, the combined amount was
50%+. 35% Fed, 14% State, and 1.5% on the total for Medicare. Billion
Dollar IPO, $350 million to the fed! That money.

Just couldn't resist - about being brain dead...
 

"John" wrote in message
...

"Calif Bill" wrote in message

And 2007? And the years before 2000? The only reason that the Clinton
years were a near balanced budget is the reduced spending by the
Republican's under Newt for a couple of years and the obscene amount of
money coming into Government coffers from the dot.bomb debacle. Came in
faster than they could increase spending. Part of the debt for the last
7 years was all the new programs instituted during those years. As I
stated, Congress has to pass any spending bill, and both sides of the
aisle have overspent for most of my 65 years of life. Sure the debt has
increased greatly during the last 7 years, but is was immense before
those 7 years. As I stated. How cas we elect anybody from Congress as
Potus is idiocy!


Again you should check the facts. Before Reagan, the national debt was
less than 1 trillion dollars. He claimed we were drowning in debt and
something had to be done, so of course he tripled the debt! GH Bush
increased it by about another 2 trillion. While Clinton was in office the
debt went up another 1 trillion. GW Bush has driven it up another two
trillion. To put his in perspective: Democratic presidents are
responsible for 2 trillion of out national Debt and republicans are
responsible for 7 trillion.

Who's budget is it? The president sends a budget to the congress to
approve/disapprove or modify. The president still has veto power on any
budget. So Congress is responsible for the pork they pack on but it still
is the president's budget.
I went out to the treasury web site, you used to be able to get historical
data all the way back to before WW2 - not anymore! Think this
administration is trying to hide the miserable job it is/has done?

http://zfacts.com/p/318.html


The Executive branch sends a proposed budget to Congress. That ends that
part. Congress passes the spending bills it wants. The Executive Branch
budget is only a proposed spending plan. They do not get the budget back as
proposed. Then the Legislative Branch got a court ruling that if they
passed a spending bill, the money had to be spent. Up until then the
Executive branch just did not spend the extra money. Bush screwed the pooch
royally by not vetoing anything regarding spending for about 6 years. Learn
a little more about government workings and then come back here.

Just couldn't resist - about being brain dead...
 

John H. wrote:


Well, perhaps the damn Democrats shouldn't have pushed so hard for getting
everyone in a home.



The absolutely perfect example of Repub/Conserv "I've got mine, so screw
you."

Classic.