Great article - SR-71 Blackbird...
 

"One day, high above Arizona, we were monitoring the radio traffic of
all the mortal airplanes below us. First, a Cessna pilot asked the air
traffic controllers to check his ground speed. 'Ninety knots,' ATC
replied. A twin Bonanza soon made the same request. 'One-twenty on the
ground,' was the reply. To our surprise, a navy F-18 came over the
radio with a ground speed check. I knew exactly what he was doing. Of
course, he had a ground speed indicator in his cockpit, but he wanted
to let all the bug-smashers in the valley know what real speed was
'Dusty 52, we show you at 525 on the ground,' ATC responded. The
situation was too ripe. I heard the click of Walter's mike button in
the rear seat. In his most innocent voice, Walter startled the
controller by asking for a ground speed check from 81,000 feet,
clearly above controlled airspace. In a cool, professional voice, the
controller replied, 'Aspen 20, I show you at 1,742 knots on the
ground.' We did not hear another transmission on that frequency all
the way to the coast."

http://maggiesfarm.anotherdotcom.com...-that-jet.html

Great article - SR-71 Blackbird...
 

On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 20:49:11 +0000, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


http://maggiesfarm.anotherdotcom.com...-Brian-Shul-I-
loved-that-jet.html

That's one special plane. I don't know how true it is, but I read
somewhere that the SR-71, once ran out of fuel over Tennessee, and still
managed to land safely at it's base in Texas. Kelly Johnson's Skunk
Works did some amazing development, quickly too.

Great article - SR-71 Blackbird...
 

On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 22:40:01 -0000, wrote:

On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 20:49:11 +0000, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


http://maggiesfarm.anotherdotcom.com...-Brian-Shul-I-
loved-that-jet.html

That's one special plane. I don't know how true it is, but I read
somewhere that the SR-71, once ran out of fuel over Tennessee, and still
managed to land safely at it's base in Texas. Kelly Johnson's Skunk
Works did some amazing development, quickly too.

I'm trying to remember the name of the book, but it detailed the SR-71
and U-2 programs. Came out a couple of years ago. That story about
the SR-71 losing fuel is true. There was also one about a U-2 that
was returning from a mission over Soviet Russia and ran out of fuel
over Anchorage only to land at Nellis AFB. They figured the glide
path at altitude with the U-2 could have taken them as far south as
Luke or Williams AFB in Arizona. :)

I remember during the first Tet Offensive, we were at Bein Hoa AFB on
a lay over when the fecal matter started raining down. We were put on
temporary assignment to reinforce the "black" hanger where the U-2
planes were until a "special unit" could arrive and take over
security. I got a look at one up close and it was freakin' huge - not
massive, but just plain huge - the wing span was amazing.

The really interesting this were the chase vehicles - Chevy ElCamino
SS 396s.

Those CIA guys really knew how to live right. :)

--

"An idealist is one who, on noticing that
a rose smells better than a cabbage, concludes
that it will also make better soup."

H.L. Mencken

Great article - SR-71 Blackbird...
 

On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 20:23:20 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 23:10:44 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 22:40:01 -0000, wrote:

On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 20:49:11 +0000, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


http://maggiesfarm.anotherdotcom.com...-Brian-Shul-I-
loved-that-jet.html

That's one special plane. I don't know how true it is, but I read
somewhere that the SR-71, once ran out of fuel over Tennessee, and still
managed to land safely at it's base in Texas. Kelly Johnson's Skunk
Works did some amazing development, quickly too.

I'm trying to remember the name of the book, but it detailed the SR-71
and U-2 programs. Came out a couple of years ago. That story about
the SR-71 losing fuel is true. There was also one about a U-2 that
was returning from a mission over Soviet Russia and ran out of fuel
over Anchorage only to land at Nellis AFB. They figured the glide
path at altitude with the U-2 could have taken them as far south as
Luke or Williams AFB in Arizona. :)

I remember during the first Tet Offensive, we were at Bein Hoa AFB on
a lay over when the fecal matter started raining down. We were put on
temporary assignment to reinforce the "black" hanger where the U-2
planes were until a "special unit" could arrive and take over
security. I got a look at one up close and it was freakin' huge - not
massive, but just plain huge - the wing span was amazing.

The really interesting this were the chase vehicles - Chevy ElCamino
SS 396s.

Those CIA guys really knew how to live right. :)

Did you ever make it to the Special Forces Club at Bien Hoa? Put down a lot
of beer staring at the infrared image of Ann Margaret in that place!

Never got there, although I remember stories of the picture.

We didn't have a lot of time at Bein Hoa. When the CIA security guys
showed up from Saigon, we were put in support of a Air Police
detachment chasing the NVA off the base. After that, as soon as they
could get us out of there and back to Danang, they did.

It was safer. :)

Great article - SR-71 Blackbird...
 

"John H." wrote in message
...


And you can see one of those up close at the new Air and Space Museum!
--
John



There is also one on display at the main entrance to the San Diego Air and
Space museum. That one was the first one I ever saw, other than pictures.

http://www.sandiegoairandspace.org/collections/

Eisboch

Great article - SR-71 Blackbird...
 

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 20:23:20 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 23:10:44 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 22:40:01 -0000, wrote:

On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 20:49:11 +0000, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


http://maggiesfarm.anotherdotcom.com...-Brian-Shul-I-
loved-that-jet.html

That's one special plane. I don't know how true it is, but I read
somewhere that the SR-71, once ran out of fuel over Tennessee, and still
managed to land safely at it's base in Texas. Kelly Johnson's Skunk
Works did some amazing development, quickly too.
I'm trying to remember the name of the book, but it detailed the SR-71
and U-2 programs. Came out a couple of years ago. That story about
the SR-71 losing fuel is true. There was also one about a U-2 that
was returning from a mission over Soviet Russia and ran out of fuel
over Anchorage only to land at Nellis AFB. They figured the glide
path at altitude with the U-2 could have taken them as far south as
Luke or Williams AFB in Arizona. :)

I remember during the first Tet Offensive, we were at Bein Hoa AFB on
a lay over when the fecal matter started raining down. We were put on
temporary assignment to reinforce the "black" hanger where the U-2
planes were until a "special unit" could arrive and take over
security. I got a look at one up close and it was freakin' huge - not
massive, but just plain huge - the wing span was amazing.

The really interesting this were the chase vehicles - Chevy ElCamino
SS 396s.

Those CIA guys really knew how to live right. :)
Did you ever make it to the Special Forces Club at Bien Hoa? Put down a lot
of beer staring at the infrared image of Ann Margaret in that place!

Never got there, although I remember stories of the picture.

We didn't have a lot of time at Bein Hoa. When the CIA security guys
showed up from Saigon, we were put in support of a Air Police
detachment chasing the NVA off the base. After that, as soon as they
could get us out of there and back to Danang, they did.

It was safer. :)

Safer for you? The NVA? Or those in Danang?

Great article - SR-71 Blackbird...
 

On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 20:49:11 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

"One day, high above Arizona, we were monitoring the radio traffic of
all the mortal airplanes below us. First, a Cessna pilot asked the air
traffic controllers to check his ground speed. 'Ninety knots,' ATC
replied. A twin Bonanza soon made the same request. 'One-twenty on the
ground,' was the reply. To our surprise, a navy F-18 came over the
radio with a ground speed check. I knew exactly what he was doing. Of
course, he had a ground speed indicator in his cockpit, but he wanted
to let all the bug-smashers in the valley know what real speed was
'Dusty 52, we show you at 525 on the ground,' ATC responded. The
situation was too ripe. I heard the click of Walter's mike button in
the rear seat. In his most innocent voice, Walter startled the
controller by asking for a ground speed check from 81,000 feet,
clearly above controlled airspace. In a cool, professional voice, the
controller replied, 'Aspen 20, I show you at 1,742 knots on the
ground.' We did not hear another transmission on that frequency all
the way to the coast."

http://maggiesfarm.anotherdotcom.com...-that-jet.html

And you can see one of those up close at the new Air and Space Museum!
--
John

Great article - SR-71 Blackbird...
 

On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 23:10:44 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 22:40:01 -0000, wrote:

On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 20:49:11 +0000, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


http://maggiesfarm.anotherdotcom.com...-Brian-Shul-I-
loved-that-jet.html

That's one special plane. I don't know how true it is, but I read
somewhere that the SR-71, once ran out of fuel over Tennessee, and still
managed to land safely at it's base in Texas. Kelly Johnson's Skunk
Works did some amazing development, quickly too.

I'm trying to remember the name of the book, but it detailed the SR-71
and U-2 programs. Came out a couple of years ago. That story about
the SR-71 losing fuel is true. There was also one about a U-2 that
was returning from a mission over Soviet Russia and ran out of fuel
over Anchorage only to land at Nellis AFB. They figured the glide
path at altitude with the U-2 could have taken them as far south as
Luke or Williams AFB in Arizona. :)

I remember during the first Tet Offensive, we were at Bein Hoa AFB on
a lay over when the fecal matter started raining down. We were put on
temporary assignment to reinforce the "black" hanger where the U-2
planes were until a "special unit" could arrive and take over
security. I got a look at one up close and it was freakin' huge - not
massive, but just plain huge - the wing span was amazing.

The really interesting this were the chase vehicles - Chevy ElCamino
SS 396s.

Those CIA guys really knew how to live right. :)

Did you ever make it to the Special Forces Club at Bien Hoa? Put down a lot
of beer staring at the infrared image of Ann Margaret in that place!
--
John

Great article - SR-71 Blackbird...
 

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 00:36:57 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 20:23:20 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 23:10:44 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 22:40:01 -0000, wrote:

On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 20:49:11 +0000, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


http://maggiesfarm.anotherdotcom.com...-Brian-Shul-I-
loved-that-jet.html

That's one special plane. I don't know how true it is, but I read
somewhere that the SR-71, once ran out of fuel over Tennessee, and still
managed to land safely at it's base in Texas. Kelly Johnson's Skunk
Works did some amazing development, quickly too.

I'm trying to remember the name of the book, but it detailed the SR-71
and U-2 programs. Came out a couple of years ago. That story about
the SR-71 losing fuel is true. There was also one about a U-2 that
was returning from a mission over Soviet Russia and ran out of fuel
over Anchorage only to land at Nellis AFB. They figured the glide
path at altitude with the U-2 could have taken them as far south as
Luke or Williams AFB in Arizona. :)

I remember during the first Tet Offensive, we were at Bein Hoa AFB on
a lay over when the fecal matter started raining down. We were put on
temporary assignment to reinforce the "black" hanger where the U-2
planes were until a "special unit" could arrive and take over
security. I got a look at one up close and it was freakin' huge - not
massive, but just plain huge - the wing span was amazing.

The really interesting this were the chase vehicles - Chevy ElCamino
SS 396s.

Those CIA guys really knew how to live right. :)

Did you ever make it to the Special Forces Club at Bien Hoa? Put down a lot
of beer staring at the infrared image of Ann Margaret in that place!

Never got there, although I remember stories of the picture.

We didn't have a lot of time at Bein Hoa. When the CIA security guys
showed up from Saigon, we were put in support of a Air Police
detachment chasing the NVA off the base. After that, as soon as they
could get us out of there and back to Danang, they did.

It was safer. :)

I'll say this - it took more than sirens to get those SF guys to leave a
pitcher of beer on the table. If the damn building wasn't shaking, they
stayed and drank. What a rip.
--
John

Great article - SR-71 Blackbird...
 

On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 20:20:41 -0500, John H.
wrote:

And you can see one of those up close at the new Air and Space Museum!

I was just there. Here's a few pics of the SR-71 they have the

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sss_udv...81139456/show/

It's a tough place to photograph since it's kind of dark in a lot of
areas. If you're interested in seeing more pics from there, here they
a

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sss_udvar_hazy/show/

These pictures capture only a small percentage of what's there. It's
well worth the trip for any aviation buff.

Steve

Great article - SR-71 Blackbird...
 

On Sun, 9 Mar 2008 21:07:15 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
.. .


And you can see one of those up close at the new Air and Space Museum!
--
John



There is also one on display at the main entrance to the San Diego Air and
Space museum. That one was the first one I ever saw, other than pictures.

http://www.sandiegoairandspace.org/collections/

Eisboch


Cool. I've been to San Diego many times (30 years ago), but didn't even
know about that museum.
--
John

Great article - SR-71 Blackbird...
 

On Sun, 9 Mar 2008 21:07:15 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
.. .


And you can see one of those up close at the new Air and Space Museum!
--
John



There is also one on display at the main entrance to the San Diego Air and
Space museum. That one was the first one I ever saw, other than pictures.

http://www.sandiegoairandspace.org/collections/

There's also one at the Air Force Armament Museum at Eglin Air Force
Base in Florida. I was there a couple of years ago. Interesting
place.

http://www.afarmamentmuseum.com/outside.shtml

Steve

Great article - SR-71 Blackbird...
 

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 02:01:12 GMT, Steve wrote:

On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 20:20:41 -0500, John H.
wrote:

And you can see one of those up close at the new Air and Space Museum!

I was just there. Here's a few pics of the SR-71 they have the

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sss_udv...81139456/show/

It's a tough place to photograph since it's kind of dark in a lot of
areas. If you're interested in seeing more pics from there, here they
a

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sss_udvar_hazy/show/

These pictures capture only a small percentage of what's there. It's
well worth the trip for any aviation buff.

If you are ever in New England, a must see if you are into aircraft is
the New England Air Museum in East Granby, CT at Bradley
International.

http://www.neam.org/exhibits/collections.asp

Some really interesting aircraft and engines there - mostly restored
and operational WWII aircraft.

Great article - SR-71 Blackbird...
 

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 02:13:55 GMT, Steve wrote:

On Sun, 9 Mar 2008 21:07:15 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
. ..


And you can see one of those up close at the new Air and Space Museum!
--
John



There is also one on display at the main entrance to the San Diego Air and
Space museum. That one was the first one I ever saw, other than pictures.

http://www.sandiegoairandspace.org/collections/

There's also one at the Air Force Armament Museum at Eglin Air Force
Base in Florida. I was there a couple of years ago. Interesting
place.

http://www.afarmamentmuseum.com/outside.shtml

Does Wright-Patterson still have thier museum?

I was there a long time ago - it looked pretty seedy then.

Great article - SR-71 Blackbird...
 

On Mar 9, 8:07*pm, "Eisboch" wrote:
"John H." wrote in message

...

And you can see one of those up close at the new Air and Space Museum!
--
John

There is also one on display at the main entrance to the San Diego Air and
Space museum. *That one was the first one I ever saw, other than pictures.

http://www.sandiegoairandspace.org/collections/

Eisboch

I was watching a doc. on some Marvel Channel, abotu the blackbird, and
it was fascenating to hear that pilots were asked why they didnt' ahve
any armaments. "Well, when you're flying higher and faster than a
missle can reach you, then what would be the point? Besides, we're
flying faster than a 30.06 calibre bullet, so a gun would be usless."

*gulp*

Great article - SR-71 Blackbird...
 

On Mar 9, 10:16*pm, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 02:01:12 GMT, Steve wrote:
On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 20:20:41 -0500, John H.
wrote:

And you can see one of those up close at the new Air and Space Museum!

I was just there. *Here's a few pics of the SR-71 they have the

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sss_udv...81139456/show/

It's a tough place to photograph since it's kind of dark in a lot of
areas. *If you're interested in seeing more pics from there, here they
a

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sss_udvar_hazy/show/

These pictures capture only a small percentage of what's there. *It's
well worth the trip for any aviation buff.

If you are ever in New England, a must see if you are into aircraft is
the New England Air Museum in East Granby, CT at Bradley
International.

http://www.neam.org/exhibits/collections.asp

Some really interesting aircraft and engines there - mostly restored
and operational WWII aircraft.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Wow, that sparks some weird memories. I was fresh out of high school
and I took a night job there as a guard at the ANG base. We were
trouble makers to say the least, lucky we are not all in jail;) I used
to let my buds in at night and we would sit up on top of the Quanset
building they had there and get plastered and watch the planes come
and go. Then when we were sufficiently, er, um, crocked, we would go
down and take out the plane haulers carts, forget what they called
them, and race around the parking lots and north side of the airport;)
I am pretty sure the mechanics knew, but they never said anything,
guess it was hard to find someone to do the job. There was this high
brass, don't remember his rank, that was stationed at Westover and
stayed down at the chopper base sometimes. I had to wake him at 5 am.
There was a special broom next to the door and I was warned by him and
a couple other guys, in fact I would say more trained to come quietly
into the room and sweep his feet with the broom, as soon as he sat up
or stirred I was to back out of the room quickly. I trusted these guys
and even though I figured they could be fooling, I did it the way they
told me to. Damn if the guy did not wake up swinging, just like they
said, every time. All they told me was "he was in Nam". I never asked
beyond that, thanks to all you vets...that's all I gotta' say.

Great article - SR-71 Blackbird...
 

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 02:17:31 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 02:13:55 GMT, Steve wrote:

On Sun, 9 Mar 2008 21:07:15 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
...


And you can see one of those up close at the new Air and Space Museum!
--
John



There is also one on display at the main entrance to the San Diego Air and
Space museum. That one was the first one I ever saw, other than pictures.

http://www.sandiegoairandspace.org/collections/

There's also one at the Air Force Armament Museum at Eglin Air Force
Base in Florida. I was there a couple of years ago. Interesting
place.

http://www.afarmamentmuseum.com/outside.shtml

Does Wright-Patterson still have thier museum?

I was there a long time ago - it looked pretty seedy then.

I think Wright-Pat still has a huge museum. I've been to the base but
not to the museum. I'll have to make a trip out there sometime. I
like the one at Eglin though, because you can get right up to the
planes. Other places have them roped off somehow.

Steve

Great article - SR-71 Blackbird...
 

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 02:16:37 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 02:01:12 GMT, Steve wrote:

On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 20:20:41 -0500, John H.
wrote:

And you can see one of those up close at the new Air and Space Museum!

I was just there. Here's a few pics of the SR-71 they have the

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sss_udv...81139456/show/

It's a tough place to photograph since it's kind of dark in a lot of
areas. If you're interested in seeing more pics from there, here they
a

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sss_udvar_hazy/show/

These pictures capture only a small percentage of what's there. It's
well worth the trip for any aviation buff.

If you are ever in New England, a must see if you are into aircraft is
the New England Air Museum in East Granby, CT at Bradley
International.

http://www.neam.org/exhibits/collections.asp

Some really interesting aircraft and engines there - mostly restored
and operational WWII aircraft.

The cool thing about Udvar-Hazy is that they have a lot of special
historic planes, not just your average WWII fighter. They have *the*
Enola Gay, *the* Gossamer Albatros (if you're into human powered
flight), *the* Virgin Atlantic Global Flyer (flew non-stop,
non-refueled around the world) . They have X-planes like the XV-15,
which was the tilt-rotor research plane that led to the V-22 Osprey.
Rare old planes from early days of flight like the Langley Aerodrome,
a Wright Model B, WWI planes, etc. Along with the numerous "average"
WWII planes, they have rarer ones like the German flying wing and WWII
jets, Japanese WWII planes, etc. Special, one-off racing planes. Even
Balloon gondolas that made history, like the first to cross the
Atlantic.

Then you go into the space part and see the Enterprise, Mercury and
Gemini capsules, Redstone rocket, etc. etc.

You would expect all that kind of rare stuff since it's the
Smithsonian afterall.

Steve

Great article - SR-71 Blackbird...
 

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 03:53:28 GMT, Steve wrote:

You would expect all that kind of rare stuff since it's the
Smithsonian afterall.

I was there in the early 90's. Amazing place.

The whole Smithsonian complex is something else - you could spend a
month in the place and never see it all.

Great article - SR-71 Blackbird...
 

It's amazing to look at one of those things. a dart with wings and two
giant engines. it defines "speed"!

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
"One day, high above Arizona, we were monitoring the radio traffic of
all the mortal airplanes below us. First, a Cessna pilot asked the air
traffic controllers to check his ground speed. 'Ninety knots,' ATC
replied. A twin Bonanza soon made the same request. 'One-twenty on the
ground,' was the reply. To our surprise, a navy F-18 came over the
radio with a ground speed check. I knew exactly what he was doing. Of
course, he had a ground speed indicator in his cockpit, but he wanted
to let all the bug-smashers in the valley know what real speed was
'Dusty 52, we show you at 525 on the ground,' ATC responded. The
situation was too ripe. I heard the click of Walter's mike button in
the rear seat. In his most innocent voice, Walter startled the
controller by asking for a ground speed check from 81,000 feet,
clearly above controlled airspace. In a cool, professional voice, the
controller replied, 'Aspen 20, I show you at 1,742 knots on the
ground.' We did not hear another transmission on that frequency all
the way to the coast."

http://maggiesfarm.anotherdotcom.com...-that-jet.html

Great article - SR-71 Blackbird...
 

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


controller by asking for a ground speed check from 81,000 feet,
clearly above controlled airspace. In a cool, professional voice, the
controller replied, 'Aspen 20, I show you at 1,742 knots on the
ground.' We did not hear another transmission on that frequency all
the way to the coast."


1,742 knots?

That was probably in second gear!

Great article - SR-71 Blackbird...
 

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 06:31:16 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:



Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

controller by asking for a ground speed check from 81,000 feet,
clearly above controlled airspace. In a cool, professional voice, the
controller replied, 'Aspen 20, I show you at 1,742 knots on the
ground.' We did not hear another transmission on that frequency all
the way to the coast."

1,742 knots?

That was probably in second gear!

I wish I could find the title of that book about spy planes so I could
give you the exact quote, but it mentioned in the SR-71 discussion
that the engineers actually never knew just how fast that design could
go - there didn't seem to be an upper limit on the design itself - the
only limiting factor were the engines.

There has been some speculation that the oft rumored "Aurora" is
really a revamped, updated SR-71 design with a hybrid jet/scram jet
engine capable of extra-atmosphere flight.

Man, that has got to be a ride and a half.

--

"An idealist is one who, on noticing that
a rose smells better than a cabbage, concludes
that it will also make better soup."

H.L. Mencken

Great article - SR-71 Blackbird...
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...


"An idealist is one who, on noticing that
a rose smells better than a cabbage, concludes
that it will also make better soup."

H.L. Mencken


Mencken was wrong. That's not an idealist. It's a Democrat.

Eisboch

Great article - SR-71 Blackbird...
 

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:47:07 +0000, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


There has been some speculation that the oft rumored "Aurora" is really
a revamped, updated SR-71 design with a hybrid jet/scram jet engine
capable of extra-atmosphere flight.

It's also been rumored that the Aurora was canceled in the '90s, due to
the expense.


Man, that has got to be a ride and a half.

Great article - SR-71 Blackbird...
 

Great article - SR-71 Blackbird...
 

"HK" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:47:07 +0000, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


There has been some speculation that the oft rumored "Aurora" is really
a revamped, updated SR-71 design with a hybrid jet/scram jet engine
capable of extra-atmosphere flight.

It's also been rumored that the Aurora was canceled in the '90s, due to
the expense.


Man, that has got to be a ride and a half.



What, a contract actually cancelled because of expense? Is that allowed?

What galls me as a taxpayer is that the government is willing, no, eager,
to spends hundreds of billions of dollars and unlimited amounts of
manpower on military hardware, but is unwilling to pursue diplomacy until
there is absolutely no hope of diplomacy working.

"Jaw, jar is better than war, war," a quote attributed to Churchill, has
more meaning today than ever.



The jawing stops abruptly when they chop your head off.

Great article - SR-71 Blackbird...
 

wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:47:07 +0000, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


There has been some speculation that the oft rumored "Aurora" is really
a revamped, updated SR-71 design with a hybrid jet/scram jet engine
capable of extra-atmosphere flight.

It's also been rumored that the Aurora was canceled in the '90s, due
to the expense.


Man, that has got to be a ride and a half.



What, a contract actually cancelled because of expense? Is that allowed?

What galls me as a taxpayer is that the government is willing, no,
eager, to spends hundreds of billions of dollars and unlimited amounts
of manpower on military hardware, but is unwilling to pursue diplomacy
until there is absolutely no hope of diplomacy working.

"Jaw, jar is better than war, war," a quote attributed to Churchill,
has more meaning today than ever.



The jawing stops abruptly when they chop your head off.


Oh...the "we've stopped them there so they aren't coming here" stuff.
I get it.

:)

Great article - SR-71 Blackbird...
 

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:05:19 -0000, wrote:

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:47:07 +0000, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


There has been some speculation that the oft rumored "Aurora" is really
a revamped, updated SR-71 design with a hybrid jet/scram jet engine
capable of extra-atmosphere flight.

It's also been rumored that the Aurora was canceled in the '90s, due to
the expense.

That's what they want you to think. :)

There is some interesting speculation about "Aurora" in that it may
not be the classic high speed fighter style airplane, but a hybrid
zepplin with some very ineresting capabilities.

I have a hard time believing that they would dump the whole spy plane
concept due to cost. Satellites are nice, but even the most clued in
speculators admit that spy satellites are limited in time and space.
Real time data is paramount in times of crisis and that means spy
planes.

--

"Far better it is to dare mighty things,
to win glorious triumphs even though
checkered by failure, than to rank with
those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor
suffer much because they live in the gray
twilight that knows neither victory nor
defeat."

Theodore Roosevelt

Great article - SR-71 Blackbird...
 

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 10:56:28 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .


"An idealist is one who, on noticing that
a rose smells better than a cabbage, concludes
that it will also make better soup."

H.L. Mencken

Mencken was wrong. That's not an idealist. It's a Democrat.

And your point is? :)

Great article - SR-71 Blackbird...
 

"HK" wrote in message
...
wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:47:07 +0000, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


There has been some speculation that the oft rumored "Aurora" is
really
a revamped, updated SR-71 design with a hybrid jet/scram jet engine
capable of extra-atmosphere flight.

It's also been rumored that the Aurora was canceled in the '90s, due to
the expense.


Man, that has got to be a ride and a half.



What, a contract actually cancelled because of expense? Is that allowed?

What galls me as a taxpayer is that the government is willing, no,
eager, to spends hundreds of billions of dollars and unlimited amounts
of manpower on military hardware, but is unwilling to pursue diplomacy
until there is absolutely no hope of diplomacy working.

"Jaw, jar is better than war, war," a quote attributed to Churchill, has
more meaning today than ever.



The jawing stops abruptly when they chop your head off.


Oh...the "we've stopped them there so they aren't coming here" stuff.
I get it.

:)

Not at all. Just illustrating the type of people you are attempting to
negotiate with. Not to worry. Our new Democratic president will analyze and
solve this crisis immediately.

Great article - SR-71 Blackbird...
 

Great article - SR-71 Blackbird...
 

HK wrote:
wrote:
On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:47:07 +0000, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


There has been some speculation that the oft rumored "Aurora" is really
a revamped, updated SR-71 design with a hybrid jet/scram jet engine
capable of extra-atmosphere flight.

It's also been rumored that the Aurora was canceled in the '90s, due
to the expense.


Man, that has got to be a ride and a half.



What, a contract actually cancelled because of expense? Is that allowed?

What galls me as a taxpayer is that the government is willing, no,
eager, to spends hundreds of billions of dollars and unlimited amounts
of manpower on military hardware, but is unwilling to pursue diplomacy
until there is absolutely no hope of diplomacy working.

"Jaw, jar is better than war, war," a quote attributed to Churchill, has
more meaning today than ever.


You seem to constantly forget that a strong military helps tremendously
with the talking part of diplomacy.

Great article - SR-71 Blackbird...
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:05:19 -0000, wrote:

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:47:07 +0000, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


There has been some speculation that the oft rumored "Aurora" is really
a revamped, updated SR-71 design with a hybrid jet/scram jet engine
capable of extra-atmosphere flight.

It's also been rumored that the Aurora was canceled in the '90s, due to
the expense.

That's what they want you to think. :)

There is some interesting speculation about "Aurora" in that it may
not be the classic high speed fighter style airplane, but a hybrid
zepplin with some very ineresting capabilities.

I have a hard time believing that they would dump the whole spy plane
concept due to cost. Satellites are nice, but even the most clued in
speculators admit that spy satellites are limited in time and space.
Real time data is paramount in times of crisis and that means spy
planes.

--

"Far better it is to dare mighty things,
to win glorious triumphs even though
checkered by failure, than to rank with
those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor
suffer much because they live in the gray
twilight that knows neither victory nor
defeat."

Theodore Roosevelt

What about geosynchronous satellites. or aren't todays optics up to the job?

Great article - SR-71 Blackbird...
 

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:54:24 -0400, "D.Duck" wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:05:19 -0000, wrote:

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:47:07 +0000, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


There has been some speculation that the oft rumored "Aurora" is really
a revamped, updated SR-71 design with a hybrid jet/scram jet engine
capable of extra-atmosphere flight.

It's also been rumored that the Aurora was canceled in the '90s, due to
the expense.

That's what they want you to think. :)

There is some interesting speculation about "Aurora" in that it may
not be the classic high speed fighter style airplane, but a hybrid
zepplin with some very ineresting capabilities.

I have a hard time believing that they would dump the whole spy plane
concept due to cost. Satellites are nice, but even the most clued in
speculators admit that spy satellites are limited in time and space.
Real time data is paramount in times of crisis and that means spy
planes.

What about geosynchronous satellites. or aren't todays optics up to the job?

Believe it or not, you have to move them. Everytime you move them, you
have to recalculate the orbits and the remaining fuel load. You just
can't move one from covering, say Moscow to St. Pertersburg without a
whole bunch of work.

And the constellation isn't that large - those spy sats are huge, cost
a ton of money and not easy to deal with. Spy planes are better
deployable assets.

Secondly, humint is much more reliable than elint in this instance.
Putting a crew in a cockpit and having them effectively scout, or make
decision based on what they see or even what happens, is more
efficient and practical.

Great article - SR-71 Blackbird...
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:54:24 -0400, "D.Duck" wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:05:19 -0000, wrote:

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:47:07 +0000, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


There has been some speculation that the oft rumored "Aurora" is
really
a revamped, updated SR-71 design with a hybrid jet/scram jet engine
capable of extra-atmosphere flight.

It's also been rumored that the Aurora was canceled in the '90s, due to
the expense.

That's what they want you to think. :)

There is some interesting speculation about "Aurora" in that it may
not be the classic high speed fighter style airplane, but a hybrid
zepplin with some very ineresting capabilities.

I have a hard time believing that they would dump the whole spy plane
concept due to cost. Satellites are nice, but even the most clued in
speculators admit that spy satellites are limited in time and space.
Real time data is paramount in times of crisis and that means spy
planes.

What about geosynchronous satellites. or aren't todays optics up to the
job?

Believe it or not, you have to move them. Everytime you move them, you
have to recalculate the orbits and the remaining fuel load. You just
can't move one from covering, say Moscow to St. Pertersburg without a
whole bunch of work.

And the constellation isn't that large - those spy sats are huge, cost
a ton of money and not easy to deal with. Spy planes are better
deployable assets.

Secondly, humint is much more reliable than elint in this instance.
Putting a crew in a cockpit and having them effectively scout, or make
decision based on what they see or even what happens, is more
efficient and practical.

I know, you're just lobbying for a job. You could take your Hasselblad up
there. 8-)

Great article - SR-71 Blackbird...
 

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:00:02 +0000, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:



Secondly, humint is much more reliable than elint in this instance.
Putting a crew in a cockpit and having them effectively scout, or make
decision based on what they see or even what happens, is more efficient
and practical.

And using low altitude stealthy drones is safer, and cheaper. In Iraq
and Afghanistan, drones seem to be carrying the bulk of aerial intell.

Great article - SR-71 Blackbird...
 

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:16:07 -0000, wrote:

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:00:02 +0000, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:



Secondly, humint is much more reliable than elint in this instance.
Putting a crew in a cockpit and having them effectively scout, or make
decision based on what they see or even what happens, is more efficient
and practical.

And using low altitude stealthy drones is safer, and cheaper. In Iraq
and Afghanistan, drones seem to be carrying the bulk of aerial intell.

Safer? Certainly because it's not manned if that's what you mean by
"safer". Cheaper - perhaps.

Effective? Not really. Low speed, low altitude unmanned aircraft are
spottable and effective counter measures against them are effective -
if you notice they are there. In Iraq, you are dealing with a what
are essentially low-tech guerrillas - and fairly stupid if you watch
some of the war porn movies on YouTube. You aren't going to use one
of those beasties over flying a missile base in Moscow.

Great article - SR-71 Blackbird...
 

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:28:18 +0000, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


And using low altitude stealthy drones is safer, and cheaper. In Iraq
and Afghanistan, drones seem to be carrying the bulk of aerial intell.

Safer? Certainly because it's not manned if that's what you mean by
"safer". Cheaper - perhaps.

Effective? Not really. Low speed, low altitude unmanned aircraft are
spottable and effective counter measures against them are effective - if
you notice they are there. In Iraq, you are dealing with a what are
essentially low-tech guerrillas - and fairly stupid if you watch some of
the war porn movies on YouTube. You aren't going to use one of those
beasties over flying a missile base in Moscow.

Yeah, but ... you are talking about the drones we know of, the Predator
and the Global Hawk. Just speculating here, but if you were tasked with
aerial spying, would you go for an Aurora type, or a *stealthy drone*, a
F-117 type, if you will. Me, I'm thinking stealthy.

Great article - SR-71 Blackbird...
 

"D.Duck" wrote in message
...



What about geosynchronous satellites. or aren't todays optics up to the
job?


Geosynchronous satellites are in orbits at altitudes of over 22,000 miles.
Even the best of optics will take more detailed pictures at 100,000 feet or
less.

Eisboch

Great article - SR-71 Blackbird...
 

Eisboch wrote:
"D.Duck" wrote in message
...

What about geosynchronous satellites. or aren't todays optics up to the
job?


Geosynchronous satellites are in orbits at altitudes of over 22,000 miles.
Even the best of optics will take more detailed pictures at 100,000 feet or
less.

22,300 miles to be exact. Comsat, before it was bought by Lockheed
Martin, was located at 22300 Satellite Drive.