Questions from the USCG OUPV or 100-ton exam
 

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:02:07 -0500, HK wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:57:44 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:04:45 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 22:12:53 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 16:41:41 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

Last night, Mrs. Wave and me discussed the whole boat situation. The
upshot is that she would rather fly or drive to places she wants to go
rather than go via boat.
Hmm, sounds like someone else we know. Of course if I had an LTP I
wouldn't go anywhere with it either.
I believe her subtle point was that she's not retiring any time soon
and that is that. :)

I think she's gotten way too used to me doing the house work, making
dinner and doing the laundry leaving her entirely free to pursue her
professional interests.

I think it's time for a strike.

Or Unionize.

STRIKE - STRIKE - STRIKE!!
Invite Harry up for a couple weeks. He'll get you all organized, lower the
amount of work you must do, get you a big increase in bait money, and
convince Mrs W not to shove your lazy ass to another country.
Heh - a few years ago, Mrs. Wave was involved in her Union negotiating
committee which was negotiating the contracts for the three Unions
that worked for the Union she is part of.

There has got to be something wrong if the Union has unions working
for it. :)
Absurd. When I worked for the teachers' union, we had several staff
unions, including one that went out on strike just before the start of
the fall public school semester. Most of the unions with which I have
consulted over the years have staff unions. Most non-exempt union
employees are members of bargaining units, and some of these bargaining
units are affiliated with the OP, aka http://www.opeiu.org/

When did you work for the NEA?


When I was a younger sprout, just before I came to Washington, D.C., to
work for a political ad and PR agency. Later, the NEA became a client of
our agency.

Questions from the USCG OUPV or 100-ton exam
 

On Feb 13, 5:18�am, HK wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 19:26:21 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:

On Feb 12, 7:00?pm, "Eisboch" wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message

...

On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:55:07 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:
Kinda ****ed me off, but there's really nothing
that can be done about it. ?In a boat sale, the buyer holds all the cards
... ?the seller just has to adjust.
That's not completely true. ?If the purchase agreement is properly
worded, and the terms breached, you can walk with the deposit.
A subtle suggestion or two of that possibility could do wonders to
expedite the closing.
But, isn't it interesting that the typical 10 percent deposit just happens
to cover the broker's commission?
Most agreements split the forfeited deposit between the broker and the
seller, up to the amount that would have been due the broker had the
sale gone through.

What? �You're kidding.

Why the heck should the broker get any money for a failed sale?

Chuckie's Law?

I avoided broker's fees when I sold Yo Ho last summer. I made an
arrangement with the dealer to handle all the paperwork for a fixed fee,
which we negotiated. We agreed the fee would double if the dealer found
the buyer. Even at that, it would have been half the price a broker
would have charged. As it turned out, I found the buyer, who came up to
the dealership, examined the boat and the service records, and made the
purchase. The dealer did his job properly, and the next morning, the new
buyer was towing Yo Ho to her new home.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It would have been cheaper to use a marine escrow/title company.
Smarter, too. A broker isn't necessarily an expert in preparing the
legal
paperwork associated with a transaction, any more than the average
real estate agent is qualified to prepare the closing documents for a
home.

Questions from the USCG OUPV or 100-ton exam
 

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:02:07 -0500, HK wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:57:44 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:04:45 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 22:12:53 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 16:41:41 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

Last night, Mrs. Wave and me discussed the whole boat situation. The
upshot is that she would rather fly or drive to places she wants to go
rather than go via boat.
Hmm, sounds like someone else we know. Of course if I had an LTP I
wouldn't go anywhere with it either.
I believe her subtle point was that she's not retiring any time soon
and that is that. :)

I think she's gotten way too used to me doing the house work, making
dinner and doing the laundry leaving her entirely free to pursue her
professional interests.

I think it's time for a strike.

Or Unionize.

STRIKE - STRIKE - STRIKE!!
Invite Harry up for a couple weeks. He'll get you all organized, lower the
amount of work you must do, get you a big increase in bait money, and
convince Mrs W not to shove your lazy ass to another country.
Heh - a few years ago, Mrs. Wave was involved in her Union negotiating
committee which was negotiating the contracts for the three Unions
that worked for the Union she is part of.

There has got to be something wrong if the Union has unions working
for it. :)
Absurd. When I worked for the teachers' union, we had several staff
unions, including one that went out on strike just before the start of
the fall public school semester. Most of the unions with which I have
consulted over the years have staff unions. Most non-exempt union
employees are members of bargaining units, and some of these bargaining
units are affiliated with the OP, aka http://www.opeiu.org/

When did you work for the NEA?

The longer Harry stays in rec.boats, the more jobs he has had. They are
all nothing more than Lobster Boats.

Questions from the USCG OUPV or 100-ton exam
 

On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:11:28 -0500, HK wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:02:07 -0500, HK wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:57:44 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:04:45 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 22:12:53 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 16:41:41 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

Last night, Mrs. Wave and me discussed the whole boat situation. The
upshot is that she would rather fly or drive to places she wants to go
rather than go via boat.
Hmm, sounds like someone else we know. Of course if I had an LTP I
wouldn't go anywhere with it either.
I believe her subtle point was that she's not retiring any time soon
and that is that. :)

I think she's gotten way too used to me doing the house work, making
dinner and doing the laundry leaving her entirely free to pursue her
professional interests.

I think it's time for a strike.

Or Unionize.

STRIKE - STRIKE - STRIKE!!
Invite Harry up for a couple weeks. He'll get you all organized, lower the
amount of work you must do, get you a big increase in bait money, and
convince Mrs W not to shove your lazy ass to another country.
Heh - a few years ago, Mrs. Wave was involved in her Union negotiating
committee which was negotiating the contracts for the three Unions
that worked for the Union she is part of.

There has got to be something wrong if the Union has unions working
for it. :)
Absurd. When I worked for the teachers' union, we had several staff
unions, including one that went out on strike just before the start of
the fall public school semester. Most of the unions with which I have
consulted over the years have staff unions. Most non-exempt union
employees are members of bargaining units, and some of these bargaining
units are affiliated with the OP, aka http://www.opeiu.org/

When did you work for the NEA?


When I was a younger sprout, just before I came to Washington, D.C., to
work for a political ad and PR agency. Later, the NEA became a client of
our agency.

Perhaps that helps explain why the NEA, more than any other entity, ****s
up education in this country.
--
John H

Questions from the USCG OUPV or 100-ton exam
 

Chuck Gould wrote:
On Feb 13, 5:18�am, HK wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 19:26:21 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:
On Feb 12, 7:00?pm, "Eisboch" wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:55:07 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:
Kinda ****ed me off, but there's really nothing
that can be done about it. ?In a boat sale, the buyer holds all the cards
... ?the seller just has to adjust.
That's not completely true. ?If the purchase agreement is properly
worded, and the terms breached, you can walk with the deposit.
A subtle suggestion or two of that possibility could do wonders to
expedite the closing.
But, isn't it interesting that the typical 10 percent deposit just happens
to cover the broker's commission?
Most agreements split the forfeited deposit between the broker and the
seller, up to the amount that would have been due the broker had the
sale gone through.
What? �You're kidding.
Why the heck should the broker get any money for a failed sale?
Chuckie's Law?

I avoided broker's fees when I sold Yo Ho last summer. I made an
arrangement with the dealer to handle all the paperwork for a fixed fee,
which we negotiated. We agreed the fee would double if the dealer found
the buyer. Even at that, it would have been half the price a broker
would have charged. As it turned out, I found the buyer, who came up to
the dealership, examined the boat and the service records, and made the
purchase. The dealer did his job properly, and the next morning, the new
buyer was towing Yo Ho to her new home.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It would have been cheaper to use a marine escrow/title company.
Smarter, too. A broker isn't necessarily an expert in preparing the
legal
paperwork associated with a transaction, any more than the average
real estate agent is qualified to prepare the closing documents for a
home.


My local dealer sells lots of new and used boats, and knows precisely
how to handle the "paperwork." The dealership has a full time title
clerk who knows her stuff. I paid relatively few dollars for the
services I received in connection with the sale. These services
included: unshrinkwrapping the boat, prepping it for the water, washing
it out, keeping it clean for the couple of weeks it was on the dealer's
lot on display, checking and filling the wheel bearings, going over
every detail of the boat with the buyer, planning a safe route for the
buyer to trailer the boat several hundred miles, all things *I* did not
have to do.

Now, considering that time is money, what would the "marine escrow/title
company" done for me? I paid about 2-1/2% of the sales price for these
services, by the way. I thought and think it was money well spent.

I wonder what the going rate for a "broker" is these days?

Questions from the USCG OUPV or 100-ton exam
 

On Feb 13, 5:07�am, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 19:26:21 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould





wrote:
On Feb 12, 7:00?pm, "Eisboch" wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message

. ..

On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:55:07 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:

Kinda ****ed me off, but there's really nothing
that can be done about it. ?In a boat sale, the buyer holds all the cards
... ?the seller just has to adjust.

That's not completely true. ?If the purchase agreement is properly
worded, and the terms breached, you can walk with the deposit.
A subtle suggestion or two of that possibility could do wonders to
expedite the closing.

But, isn't it interesting that the typical 10 percent deposit just happens
to cover the broker's commission?

Most agreements split the forfeited deposit between the broker and the
seller, up to the amount that would have been due the broker had the
sale gone through.

What? �You're kidding.

Why the heck should the broker get any money for a failed sale?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Good question, and the answer is that the broker performed the service
he or she agreed to perform; bring an apparentl ready, willing, and
able buyer to contract. The broker has a financial investment in the
sale, and has a series of expenses to recover.

The only time that a buyer's deposit is normally forfeited is when the
sale fails due only to an arbitrary change of heart on the part on the
part of the buyer, ("We've decided to buy a motorhome instead,
sorry"), or when the buyer has made a misrepresentation ("I hate to
admit this, but I lied from the very beginning about having enough
cash to buy a boat."). Neither of those situations is the fault of the
broker.

If the sale falls apart without any forfeiture of deposit (due to
survey or financing contingencies in the original contract), then the
broker gets the same as the seller; nothing.

One of the situations that a broker must *always* guard against is a
back-door deal between the seller and buyer after the broker has done
his or her job;

Phone rings:

"Hello, Mr. Boat Buyer? This is Mr. Boat Seller."

"Oh, hello. What can I do for you?"

"How would you like to save another $5000 on the cost of the boat?"

"Well of course! But how would I do that? Are you planning to lower
the price?"

"No, I'm selling it too cheaply already. You're getting a whale of a
deal.
But what I think I can do to help to both of us to to reduce my
expense of selling the boat. Let's enter into a deal where we agree to
do business at a selling price of $5000 less than you have offered
through the yacht brokerage, and then you call the yacht broker and
tell him that you have been unable to qualify for "acceptable"
financing so the deal is off. I'll save $12,000 in selling expense by
cutting the broker out of the transaction, and I'll pass $5,000 of
that along to you."

"Make it six thousand, and you've got a deal."


Splitting the buyer's forfeited deposit (up to the amount of the
commission) offers some assurance that the seller won't talk the buyer
into forfeiting the deposit and then buying the boat at a cheaper
price
once the supposedly "angry" seller pulls the listing following a
failed sale.

Questions from the USCG OUPV or 100-ton exam
 

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
...


On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 19:26:21 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould


wrote:


Splitting the buyer's forfeited deposit (up to the amount of the
commission) offers some assurance that the seller won't talk the buyer
into forfeiting the deposit and then buying the boat at a cheaper
price
once the supposedly "angry" seller pulls the listing following a
failed sale.

--------------------------------------------------------


It's also expressly forbidden to do so in the standard yacht sale contract
used by most brokers. In fact, it prohibits the seller from making a deal
with a buyer introduced by the broker for a year following the termination
of the broker agreement.

Eisboch

Questions from the USCG OUPV or 100-ton exam
 

"HK" wrote in message
...
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Feb 13, 5:18�am, HK wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 19:26:21 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:
On Feb 12, 7:00?pm, "Eisboch" wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:55:07 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:
Kinda ****ed me off, but there's really nothing
that can be done about it. ?In a boat sale, the buyer holds all the
cards
... ?the seller just has to adjust.
That's not completely true. ?If the purchase agreement is properly
worded, and the terms breached, you can walk with the deposit.
A subtle suggestion or two of that possibility could do wonders to
expedite the closing.
But, isn't it interesting that the typical 10 percent deposit just
happens
to cover the broker's commission?
Most agreements split the forfeited deposit between the broker and the
seller, up to the amount that would have been due the broker had the
sale gone through.
What? �You're kidding.
Why the heck should the broker get any money for a failed sale?
Chuckie's Law?

I avoided broker's fees when I sold Yo Ho last summer. I made an
arrangement with the dealer to handle all the paperwork for a fixed fee,
which we negotiated. We agreed the fee would double if the dealer found
the buyer. Even at that, it would have been half the price a broker
would have charged. As it turned out, I found the buyer, who came up to
the dealership, examined the boat and the service records, and made the
purchase. The dealer did his job properly, and the next morning, the new
buyer was towing Yo Ho to her new home.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It would have been cheaper to use a marine escrow/title company.
Smarter, too. A broker isn't necessarily an expert in preparing the
legal
paperwork associated with a transaction, any more than the average
real estate agent is qualified to prepare the closing documents for a
home.


My local dealer sells lots of new and used boats, and knows precisely how
to handle the "paperwork." The dealership has a full time title clerk who
knows her stuff. I paid relatively few dollars for the services I received
in connection with the sale. These services included: unshrinkwrapping the
boat, prepping it for the water, washing it out, keeping it clean for the
couple of weeks it was on the dealer's lot on display, checking and
filling the wheel bearings, going over every detail of the boat with the
buyer, planning a safe route for the buyer to trailer the boat several
hundred miles, all things *I* did not have to do.

Now, considering that time is money, what would the "marine escrow/title
company" done for me? I paid about 2-1/2% of the sales price for these
services, by the way. I thought and think it was money well spent.

I wonder what the going rate for a "broker" is these days?

Get real. You don' need a broker to handle the sale of a little Parker
outboard boat. As far as maintenance goes, it wouldn't hurt you to get a
little dirt under your nails and clean the boat up yourself.

Questions from the USCG OUPV or 100-ton exam
 

Eisboch wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
...


On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 19:26:21 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould


wrote:


Splitting the buyer's forfeited deposit (up to the amount of the
commission) offers some assurance that the seller won't talk the buyer
into forfeiting the deposit and then buying the boat at a cheaper
price
once the supposedly "angry" seller pulls the listing following a
failed sale.

--------------------------------------------------------


It's also expressly forbidden to do so in the standard yacht sale contract
used by most brokers. In fact, it prohibits the seller from making a deal
with a buyer introduced by the broker for a year following the termination
of the broker agreement.

Eisboch



And on Large and Expensive Boats, you know the brokers keep up with the
current status.

Questions from the USCG OUPV or 100-ton exam
 

"Reginald P. Smithers III" "Reggie is Here wrote in message
. ..
Eisboch wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
...


On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 19:26:21 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould


wrote:


Splitting the buyer's forfeited deposit (up to the amount of the
commission) offers some assurance that the seller won't talk the buyer
into forfeiting the deposit and then buying the boat at a cheaper
price
once the supposedly "angry" seller pulls the listing following a
failed sale.

--------------------------------------------------------


It's also expressly forbidden to do so in the standard yacht sale
contract used by most brokers. In fact, it prohibits the seller from
making a deal with a buyer introduced by the broker for a year following
the termination of the broker agreement.

Eisboch

And on Large and Expensive Boats, you know the brokers keep up with the
current status.



I should clarify my statement. The contract does not prohibit you from
making a deal with a previously introduced buyer. You just agree that the
broker is entitled to a commission if you do so, for up to a year following
termination of the contract.

Eisboch