There's just nothing quite like capitalism
 

On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 08:49:05 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:

That doesn't excuse the lenders. "There's a sucker born every minute".

There's lots of blame to go around. The real lenders were the bond
holders. They thought they were buying a sure thing and didn't ask
too many questions. And then there were the whole army of middle men
who were making money hand over fist, starting with the local mortgage
brokers, all the way up to the investment banks, bond rating
companies, and bond insurers. They didn't ask many questions either.

There's just nothing quite like capitalism
 

There's just nothing quite like capitalism
 

There's just nothing quite like capitalism
 

On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 06:27:41 -0500, HK wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 16:20:56 -0500, HK wrote:

Lots of those upside down loans, at least out here, were speculators.
Counting on a 20% / year growth. A few out here are stuck with 5+ houses.



Good. They ought to be stuck, but good.

the problem is that a lot of them really don't have much money in the
game and they just walked away leaving that long list of banks holding
useless paper and a house they can't sell. The 60 minutes piece
pointed out these loans were consolidated so many times it is hard to
figure out exactly who actually does own any given house in
forclosure. As I said before, big builders were getting huge blocks of
money from fund operators and they lent it out through their in house
mortgage company. The fund holds all the paper but the individual
investors have a hard time sorting them out when the fund fails.


Sure it is a problem, but the multi-house buying speculators should pay
a penalty in addition losing the little bit of money they "invested" in
hopes of using borrowed money to make a killing. Perhaps that penalty
will merely be being forced into personal bankruptcy.

Harry, should everyone *except* the homeowner who got himself into the
situation pay a penalty?
--
John H

There's just nothing quite like capitalism
 

BAR wrote:
wrote:
On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 16:20:56 -0500, HK wrote:

Lots of those upside down loans, at least out here, were
speculators. Counting on a 20% / year growth. A few out here are
stuck with 5+ houses.


Good. They ought to be stuck, but good.

the problem is that a lot of them really don't have much money in the
game and they just walked away leaving that long list of banks holding
useless paper and a house they can't sell. The 60 minutes piece
pointed out these loans were consolidated so many times it is hard to
figure out exactly who actually does own any given house in
forclosure. As I said before, big builders were getting huge blocks of
money from fund operators and they lent it out through their in house
mortgage company. The fund holds all the paper but the individual
investors have a hard time sorting them out when the fund fails.

There was a recent foreclosure court case in Ohio, I believe, that was
dismissed because the bond/fund holders suing for foreclosure couldn't
prove that they owned the mortgages.


I read about that one, it was worth a giggle. There's little question
the mortgage business needs to be regulated as it once was.

There's just nothing quite like capitalism
 

John wrote:
"John H." wrote in message .
I *knew* it was Bush's fault!

At least now someone admits the economy *was* growing. That's the first
I've heard that.
--
John H

Yes the last 7 years have been a great economy - here are some stats to back
it up:
http://www.bartcop.com/bush-econ-chart.gif





But Bush did help establish a "Sh'ite Democracy" in Iraq and did help
put Hamas in charge of the Palestinians!

There's just nothing quite like capitalism
 

There's just nothing quite like capitalism
 

There's just nothing quite like capitalism
 

"HK" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 07:44:45 -0500, HK wrote:

There was a recent foreclosure court case in Ohio, I believe, that was
dismissed because the bond/fund holders suing for foreclosure couldn't
prove that they owned the mortgages.

I read about that one, it was worth a giggle. There's little question
the mortgage business needs to be regulated as it once was.

I think that once that story gets around that part of the mortgage
problem will self regulate. Fund investors will demand more
accountability about where their money is going.


Self regulation is the "Bush" approach, and either results in no
regulation at all or incompetent regulation. Chinese toys, anyone? Or how
about prescription drugs that are manufactured in China and sold here,
without factory inspections? How about the lack of inspection of food?
Self-regulation is little more than PR.


And then there's stuff like this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/us...html?th&emc=th

How coal companies are regulated, ya know? It's beyond me why citizens of WV
didn't tie that judge to a tree in bear country and cover him with peanut
butter.

There's just nothing quite like capitalism
 

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 07:44:45 -0500, HK wrote:

There was a recent foreclosure court case in Ohio, I believe, that was
dismissed because the bond/fund holders suing for foreclosure couldn't
prove that they owned the mortgages.
I read about that one, it was worth a giggle. There's little question
the mortgage business needs to be regulated as it once was.
I think that once that story gets around that part of the mortgage
problem will self regulate. Fund investors will demand more
accountability about where their money is going.

Self regulation is the "Bush" approach, and either results in no
regulation at all or incompetent regulation. Chinese toys, anyone? Or how
about prescription drugs that are manufactured in China and sold here,
without factory inspections? How about the lack of inspection of food?
Self-regulation is little more than PR.


And then there's stuff like this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/us...html?th&emc=th

How coal companies are regulated, ya know? It's beyond me why citizens of WV
didn't tie that judge to a tree in bear country and cover him with peanut
butter.




Hey! This is Romneyville..Foch the Workers!

There's just nothing quite like capitalism
 

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 07:44:45 -0500, HK wrote:

There was a recent foreclosure court case in Ohio, I believe, that was
dismissed because the bond/fund holders suing for foreclosure couldn't
prove that they owned the mortgages.
I read about that one, it was worth a giggle. There's little question
the mortgage business needs to be regulated as it once was.
I think that once that story gets around that part of the mortgage
problem will self regulate. Fund investors will demand more
accountability about where their money is going.

Self regulation is the "Bush" approach, and either results in no
regulation at all or incompetent regulation. Chinese toys, anyone? Or how
about prescription drugs that are manufactured in China and sold here,
without factory inspections? How about the lack of inspection of food?
Self-regulation is little more than PR.


And then there's stuff like this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/us...html?th&emc=th

How coal companies are regulated, ya know? It's beyond me why citizens of WV
didn't tie that judge to a tree in bear country and cover him with peanut
butter.




And speaking of lack of regulations:

Tainted Drugs Tied to Maker of Abortion Pill

By JAKE HOOKER and WALT BOGDANICH

BEIJING [China] -- A huge state-owned Chinese pharmaceutical company
that exports to dozens of countries, including the United States, is
at the center of a nationwide drug scandal after nearly 200 Chinese
cancer patients were paralyzed or otherwise harmed last summer by
contaminated leukemia drugs.

Chinese drug regulators have accused the manufacturer of the tainted
drugs of a cover-up and have closed the factory that produced them. In
December, China's Food and Drug Administration said that the Shanghai
police had begun a criminal investigation and that two officials,
including the head of the plant, had been detained.

The drug maker, Shanghai Hualian, is the sole supplier to the United
States of the abortion pill, mifepristone, known as RU-486. It is made
at a factory different from the one that produced the tainted cancer
drugs, about an hour's drive away.

The United States Food and Drug Administration declined to answer
questions about Shanghai Hualian, because of security concerns
stemming from the sometimes violent opposition to abortion. But in a
statement, the agency said the RU-486 plant had passed an F.D.A.
inspection in May. "F.D.A. is not aware of any evidence to suggest the
issue that occurred at the leukemia drug facility is linked in any way
with the facility that manufactures the mifepristone," the statement
said.

....

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/31/wo...html?ref=world






--
George W. Bush - Worst President Ever, to the very last minute of the
very last day of his term.

There's just nothing quite like capitalism
 

"HK" wrote in message
...

Don't they actually have to be living in the house, or can you "homestead"
an investment house in Florida?


The last I knew you could homestead your primary residence only.

Eisboch

There's just nothing quite like capitalism
 

Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
Don't they actually have to be living in the house, or can you "homestead"
an investment house in Florida?


The last I knew you could homestead your primary residence only.

Eisboch




Good, then I hope the housing speculators in Florida take it right up
the butt. Note I said speculators, not investors.

There's just nothing quite like capitalism
 

On Jan 31, 11:33*am, HK wrote:
wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 06:27:41 -0500, HK wrote:

Good. They ought to be stuck, but good.
the problem is that a lot of them really don't have much money in the
game and they just walked away leaving that long list of banks holding
useless paper and a house they can't sell. The 60 minutes piece
pointed out these loans were consolidated so many times it is hard to
figure out exactly who actually does own any given house in
forclosure. As I said before, big builders were getting huge blocks of
money from fund operators and they lent it out through their in house
mortgage company. The fund holds all the paper but the individual
investors have a hard time sorting them out when the fund fails.

Sure it is a problem, but the multi-house buying speculators should pay
a penalty in addition losing the little bit of money they "invested" in
hopes of using borrowed money to make a killing. Perhaps that penalty
will merely be being forced into personal bankruptcy.

I imagine that is where a lot of them are heading but if they were
smart enough to pay off one of the houses Florida law will let them
keep it.

Don't they actually have to be living in the house, or can you
"homestead" an investment house in Florida?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Uh, oh..... another lobster boating.
You've said you had property in Florida, then that you were left a
condo, and you don't know the Homestead Exemption rules???/

There's just nothing quite like capitalism
 

There's just nothing quite like capitalism
 

On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 12:50:02 -0500, HK wrote:

Note I said speculators, not investors.

How do you distinguish between the two? In my mind they are one and
the same except for the negative connotation associated with
speculation.

There's just nothing quite like capitalism
 

On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 11:31:58 -0500, wrote:

I think that once that story gets around that part of the mortgage
problem will self regulate. Fund investors will demand more
accountability about where their money is going.

My son the lawyer says it is already happening. Meanwhile proving
actual ownership is a very big issue for those who were sloppy with
their paper work.

There's just nothing quite like capitalism
 

Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 11:31:58 -0500, wrote:

I think that once that story gets around that part of the mortgage
problem will self regulate. Fund investors will demand more
accountability about where their money is going.

My son the lawyer says it is already happening. Meanwhile proving
actual ownership is a very big issue for those who were sloppy with
their paper work.


The FBI is investigating some of the originators and builders (I think
it is 1500)who lied on the loan app.

There's just nothing quite like capitalism
 

There's just nothing quite like capitalism
 

There's just nothing quite like capitalism
 

Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 12:50:02 -0500, HK wrote:

Note I said speculators, not investors.

How do you distinguish between the two? In my mind they are one and
the same except for the negative connotation associated with
speculation.



Hehehhe. Go back to sleep, W'hine.

An investment typically promises some safety of principal and a
reasonable return. Buying real property in the hope of a quick run up of
a minimal outlay does not meet these requirements, and therefore is
speculation.

What was it you did for a living when you did something for a living?

There's just nothing quite like capitalism
 

On Jan 31, 2:26*pm, HK wrote:
wrote:
On Jan 31, 11:33 am, HK wrote:
wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 06:27:41 -0500, HK wrote:
Good. They ought to be stuck, but good.
the problem is that a lot of them really don't have much money in the
game and they just walked away leaving that long list of banks holding
useless paper and a house they can't sell. The 60 minutes piece
pointed out these loans were consolidated so many times it is hard to
figure out exactly who actually does own any given house in
forclosure. As I said before, big builders were getting huge blocks of
money from fund operators and they lent it out through their in house
mortgage company. The fund holds all the paper but the individual
investors have a hard time sorting them out when the fund fails.
Sure it is a problem, but the multi-house buying speculators should pay
a penalty in addition losing the little bit of money they "invested" in
hopes of using borrowed money to make a killing. Perhaps that penalty
will merely be being forced into personal bankruptcy.
I imagine that is where a lot of them are heading but if they were
smart enough to pay off one of the houses Florida law will let them
keep it.
Don't they actually have to be living in the house, or can you
"homestead" an investment house in Florida?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Uh, oh..... another lobster boating.
You've said you had property in Florida, then that you were left a
condo, and you don't know the Homestead Exemption rules???/

We sold our Florida house years ago, ****-for-brains, and I never spent
a single night in the condo. Shouldn't you be out cleaning the expansion
cracks in the sidewalk?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The Homestead Exemption rules have been in place for many many years.
And why would you have to spend a night in your condo to know the
rules and use them? Lobster boating?
Shouldn't you be washing the dishes for your Dr. wife?

There's just nothing quite like capitalism
 

"HK" wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 12:50:02 -0500, HK wrote:

Note I said speculators, not investors.

How do you distinguish between the two? In my mind they are one and
the same except for the negative connotation associated with
speculation.



Hehehhe. Go back to sleep, W'hine.

An investment typically promises some safety of principal and a reasonable
return. Buying real property in the hope of a quick run up of a minimal
outlay does not meet these requirements, and therefore is speculation.

What was it you did for a living when you did something for a living?

That's only one man's opinion.

There's just nothing quite like capitalism
 

D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 12:50:02 -0500, HK wrote:

Note I said speculators, not investors.
How do you distinguish between the two? In my mind they are one and
the same except for the negative connotation associated with
speculation.


Hehehhe. Go back to sleep, W'hine.

An investment typically promises some safety of principal and a reasonable
return. Buying real property in the hope of a quick run up of a minimal
outlay does not meet these requirements, and therefore is speculation.

What was it you did for a living when you did something for a living?

That's only one man's opinion.



It's a fairly standard definition, but not the only one.

There's just nothing quite like capitalism
 

On Jan 31, 2:59*pm, wrote:
On Jan 31, 2:26*pm, HK wrote:





wrote:
On Jan 31, 11:33 am, HK wrote:
wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 06:27:41 -0500, HK wrote:
Good. They ought to be stuck, but good.
the problem is that a lot of them really don't have much money in the
game and they just walked away leaving that long list of banks holding
useless paper and a house they can't sell. The 60 minutes piece
pointed out these loans were consolidated so many times it is hard to
figure out exactly who actually does own any given house in
forclosure. As I said before, big builders were getting huge blocks of
money from fund operators and they lent it out through their in house
mortgage company. The fund holds all the paper but the individual
investors have a hard time sorting them out when the fund fails.
Sure it is a problem, but the multi-house buying speculators should pay
a penalty in addition losing the little bit of money they "invested" in
hopes of using borrowed money to make a killing. Perhaps that penalty
will merely be being forced into personal bankruptcy.
I imagine that is where a lot of them are heading but if they were
smart enough to pay off one of the houses Florida law will let them
keep it.
Don't they actually have to be living in the house, or can you
"homestead" an investment house in Florida?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Uh, oh..... another lobster boating.
You've said you had property in Florida, then that you were left a
condo, and you don't know the Homestead Exemption rules???/

We sold our Florida house years ago, ****-for-brains, and I never spent
a single night in the condo. Shouldn't you be out cleaning the expansion
cracks in the sidewalk?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The Homestead Exemption rules have been in place for many many years.
And why would you have to spend a night in your condo to know the
rules and use them? Lobster boating?
Shouldn't you be washing the dishes for your Dr. wife?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

crickets.......

There's just nothing quite like capitalism
 

wrote in message
...
On Jan 31, 2:59 pm, wrote:
On Jan 31, 2:26 pm, HK wrote:





wrote:
On Jan 31, 11:33 am, HK wrote:
wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 06:27:41 -0500, HK
wrote:
Good. They ought to be stuck, but good.
the problem is that a lot of them really don't have much money in
the
game and they just walked away leaving that long list of banks
holding
useless paper and a house they can't sell. The 60 minutes piece
pointed out these loans were consolidated so many times it is hard
to
figure out exactly who actually does own any given house in
forclosure. As I said before, big builders were getting huge
blocks of
money from fund operators and they lent it out through their in
house
mortgage company. The fund holds all the paper but the individual
investors have a hard time sorting them out when the fund fails.
Sure it is a problem, but the multi-house buying speculators should
pay
a penalty in addition losing the little bit of money they
"invested" in
hopes of using borrowed money to make a killing. Perhaps that
penalty
will merely be being forced into personal bankruptcy.
I imagine that is where a lot of them are heading but if they were
smart enough to pay off one of the houses Florida law will let them
keep it.
Don't they actually have to be living in the house, or can you
"homestead" an investment house in Florida?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Uh, oh..... another lobster boating.
You've said you had property in Florida, then that you were left a
condo, and you don't know the Homestead Exemption rules???/

We sold our Florida house years ago, ****-for-brains, and I never spent
a single night in the condo. Shouldn't you be out cleaning the expansion
cracks in the sidewalk?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The Homestead Exemption rules have been in place for many many years.
And why would you have to spend a night in your condo to know the
rules and use them? Lobster boating?
Shouldn't you be washing the dishes for your Dr. wife?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

crickets.......

Homesteading may not save your house. Most houses in metro areas of Calif
are worth more than the homestead act protects. Otherwise, you can go out
and lie and get a loan for a $20mm house and then declare BK and own the
house.

There's just nothing quite like capitalism
 

Calif Bill wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Jan 31, 2:59 pm, wrote:
On Jan 31, 2:26 pm, HK wrote:





wrote:
On Jan 31, 11:33 am, HK wrote:
wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 06:27:41 -0500, HK
wrote:
Good. They ought to be stuck, but good.
the problem is that a lot of them really don't have much money in
the
game and they just walked away leaving that long list of banks
holding
useless paper and a house they can't sell. The 60 minutes piece
pointed out these loans were consolidated so many times it is hard
to
figure out exactly who actually does own any given house in
forclosure. As I said before, big builders were getting huge
blocks of
money from fund operators and they lent it out through their in
house
mortgage company. The fund holds all the paper but the individual
investors have a hard time sorting them out when the fund fails.
Sure it is a problem, but the multi-house buying speculators should
pay
a penalty in addition losing the little bit of money they
"invested" in
hopes of using borrowed money to make a killing. Perhaps that
penalty
will merely be being forced into personal bankruptcy.
I imagine that is where a lot of them are heading but if they were
smart enough to pay off one of the houses Florida law will let them
keep it.
Don't they actually have to be living in the house, or can you
"homestead" an investment house in Florida?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Uh, oh..... another lobster boating.
You've said you had property in Florida, then that you were left a
condo, and you don't know the Homestead Exemption rules???/
We sold our Florida house years ago, ****-for-brains, and I never spent
a single night in the condo. Shouldn't you be out cleaning the expansion
cracks in the sidewalk?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
The Homestead Exemption rules have been in place for many many years.
And why would you have to spend a night in your condo to know the
rules and use them? Lobster boating?
Shouldn't you be washing the dishes for your Dr. wife?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

crickets.......

Homesteading may not save your house. Most houses in metro areas of Calif
are worth more than the homestead act protects. Otherwise, you can go out
and lie and get a loan for a $20mm house and then declare BK and own the
house.

Florida

There's just nothing quite like capitalism
 

"BAR" wrote in message
. ..
Calif Bill wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Jan 31, 2:59 pm, wrote:
On Jan 31, 2:26 pm, HK wrote:





wrote:
On Jan 31, 11:33 am, HK wrote:
wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 06:27:41 -0500, HK
wrote:
Good. They ought to be stuck, but good.
the problem is that a lot of them really don't have much money in
the
game and they just walked away leaving that long list of banks
holding
useless paper and a house they can't sell. The 60 minutes piece
pointed out these loans were consolidated so many times it is hard
to
figure out exactly who actually does own any given house in
forclosure. As I said before, big builders were getting huge
blocks of
money from fund operators and they lent it out through their in
house
mortgage company. The fund holds all the paper but the individual
investors have a hard time sorting them out when the fund fails.
Sure it is a problem, but the multi-house buying speculators should
pay
a penalty in addition losing the little bit of money they
"invested" in
hopes of using borrowed money to make a killing. Perhaps that
penalty
will merely be being forced into personal bankruptcy.
I imagine that is where a lot of them are heading but if they were
smart enough to pay off one of the houses Florida law will let them
keep it.
Don't they actually have to be living in the house, or can you
"homestead" an investment house in Florida?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Uh, oh..... another lobster boating.
You've said you had property in Florida, then that you were left a
condo, and you don't know the Homestead Exemption rules???/
We sold our Florida house years ago, ****-for-brains, and I never spent
a single night in the condo. Shouldn't you be out cleaning the
expansion
cracks in the sidewalk?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
The Homestead Exemption rules have been in place for many many years.
And why would you have to spend a night in your condo to know the
rules and use them? Lobster boating?
Shouldn't you be washing the dishes for your Dr. wife?- Hide quoted
text -

- Show quoted text -

crickets.......

Homesteading may not save your house. Most houses in metro areas of
Calif are worth more than the homestead act protects. Otherwise, you can
go out and lie and get a loan for a $20mm house and then declare BK and
own the house.

Florida



But there may be a maximum value protected even in Florida.

There's just nothing quite like capitalism
 

On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 15:37:40 -0800, Calif Bill wrote:


But there may be a maximum value protected even in Florida.

Some frequently claimed exemptions claimed are $125,000 equity in one's
Florida homestead (unlimited if you've had an interest in the homestead
or predecessor homestead for 1,215 days or more), $1,000 in personal
property ($4,000 if no homestead exemption is claimed or benefited from),
$1,000 equity in one vehicle owned by the debtor, certain earnings of a
head of household, and retirement accounts. Other exemptions are
available; your attorney should be consulted as this is a special topic
in a specialized practice area.

From:

http://www.goldstein-pa.com/brFAQ.html

There's just nothing quite like capitalism
 

On Feb 3, 1:43*am, wrote:
On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 15:37:40 -0800, "Calif Bill"

wrote:
Homesteading may not save your house. *Most houses in metro areas of
Calif are worth more than the homestead act protects. *Otherwise, you can
go out and lie and get a loan for a $20mm house and then declare BK and
own the house.

Florida

But there may be a maximum value protected even in Florida.

Nope, that is why OJ lives in Miami

My bud bought 5+ acres in N Florida, right off the intersection of 10
and 75 a few years back for 11 grand... a similar lot sold last week
nearby for 60 grand.. He is pretty excited.. For now he is just
putting up a place for vacations, but someday he will probably split
off a little piece and pay some bills..

There's just nothing quite like capitalism
 

On Feb 3, 7:20*am, wrote:
On Feb 3, 1:43*am, wrote:

On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 15:37:40 -0800, "Calif Bill"

wrote:
Homesteading may not save your house. *Most houses in metro areas of
Calif are worth more than the homestead act protects. *Otherwise, you can
go out and lie and get a loan for a $20mm house and then declare BK and
own the house.

Florida

But there may be a maximum value protected even in Florida.

Nope, that is why OJ lives in Miami

My bud bought 5+ acres in N Florida, right off the intersection of 10
and 75 a few years back for 11 grand... a similar lot sold last week
nearby for 60 grand.. He is pretty excited.. For now he is just
putting up a place for vacations, but someday he will probably split
off a little piece and pay some bills..

It's getting hard as hell to subdivide in Florida.