Genmar quits Florida for cheaper labor
 

BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 21:10:13 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
...

Except for the job loss, this is hysterical. Florida is not a
high-wage state. I guess the good folks in Tennessee are now
competing with the Chinese.

It saddens me to find that you think this is hysterical.

As I said 10 years ago Harry, you are truly a piece of work.

Eisboch

Harry seems to have some rather deep seated problems with Florida
for
some reason, possibly related to why he had to leave here.



Absurd. I love Florida, and travel there at least twice a year.
Went twice last year. When I retire, it will probably be to Hilton
Head, the Golden Isles, or North Florida, unless we go to Costa
Rica. :}

Please go to Costa Rica, please! And, retire early.



Most likely, it will be Hilton Head or its environs. So sorry. (not)

Just as long as you stat in SC everything will be ok.


Unlikely. We like to travel. Heck, I even used to travel up to your
neck of the woods, Rockville-Gaithersburg, but it is so damn congested
there, we avoid it, except for an annual Greek festival. I wonder
where the traffic is worse, in your 'hood, or over in Fairfax County.

Why do you care where I live and whether the traffic is good or bad. You
really do have a dossier on me don't you?

You have a pitiful life if you have to research and store information on
people posting to news groups.



Why would you care where I choose to retire?

Genmar quits Florida for cheaper labor
 

BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
jamesgangnc wrote:
On Jan 9, 8:40 am, wrote:
On Jan 8, 10:12 pm, "jamesgangnc" wrote:





Actually Sarasota is a fairly pricey area to be in. I won't say it
is the
most expensive but the central gulf coast area runs second to the
miami
area.
"HK" wrote in message
...
Except for the job loss, this is hysterical. Florida is not a
high-wage
state. I guess the good folks in Tennessee are now competing with the
Chinese.
Genmar exits Florida, citing economic conditions
The high cost of doing business in Florida is driving out one of the
industry's biggest players. Genmar Holdings today announced plans
to phase
out its manufacturing operations in Sarasota in the next six months.
"Unfortunately, negative manufacturing economic conditions in
Florida and
the state of Florida's complete lack of interest in attempting to
save
these jobs has left Genmar with no other choice than to move such
operations out of the state of Florida," said Genmar chairman and CEO
Irwin Jacobs in a statement.
He said Genmar, "has diligently attempted to preserve its
manufacturing
presence in the state of Florida, but it is just too costly
compared to
the other states where Genmar has existing manufacturing operations."
Product models larger than 25 feet in length for its various
sal****er
boat brands will relocate out of Sarasota and transfer to other
Genmar
plants throughout the United States. The change involves three of the
company's 14 boat brands: Hydra-Sport, Wellcraft and Seaswirl.
These three
brands manufacture a total of 58 models; 19 of them will be
affected by
the move.
Today, 67 percent of Hydra-Sports' models are manufactured in
Murfreesboro, Tenn.; 52 percent of Wellcraft's models are
manufactured in
Cadillac, Mich.; and 75 percent of Seaswirl's models are
manufactured in
Little Falls, Minn.
About 225 employees will be affected by this transition. However,
Genmar
says its Sarasota employees will earn special incentives during the
six-month transitional period. Also, to the extent possible, Genmar's
other plants will offer jobs to several Sarasota employees
affected by the
shut-down.
Genmar says it will continue to retain "a solid and experienced core
group" of boat designers, tool builders and other product
development
personnel, along with its brand sales, customer service and
management in
Florida, particularly in light of its proximity to this key boating
market.
"While the above decisions and changes have been very difficult to
make,
the opportunities created for the affected Genmar's brands and its
other
facilities are very significant," said Jacobs.
"We recognize we are entering the beginning of the annual retail
boat show
selling season and all of our dealers can be assured that
supporting them
with sales, marketing and product are our first priorities," Jacobs
continued. "The transition referenced above has been carefully
planned for
a prudent and seamless transition as it relates to our dealers, their
customers and our entire organization."
Genmar, with about 4,000 employees and eight manufacturing
centers, builds
14 brands of recreational boats. These include Carver, Champion, Four
Winns, Glastron, Hydra-Sports, Larson, Marquis, Ranger, Scarab,
Seaswirl,
Stratos, Triumph, Wellcraft and Windsor Craft.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
But wages are still in the toilet there.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Not sure that has much bearing. They can hardly tell the existing
employees to take ap ay cut without getting a lot of grief so the
current labor rate only affects them if they were considering
expanding. Other wise it's all the other local costs of doing
business.


Which, of course, just proves my point that if you work for a large
corporation, the day you get hired, you should revise and start
sending out your resume, because sooner or later, that corporation is
going to screw you.

Large corporations don't have sole right to screw you even small
companies can screw you.


True enough.

Genmar quits Florida for cheaper labor
 

John H. wrote:
On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 11:43:45 -0500, HK wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 10:54:02 -0500, HK wrote:

Which, of course, just proves my point that if you work for a large
corporation, the day you get hired, you should revise and start sending
out your resume, because sooner or later, that corporation is going to
screw you.


Can anyone who reads this explain the anti-corporation stance of liberals?
I know Harry can't.

I don't understand the anti-corporation thing either. Corporations make
the world go around. They are the engine of economic advancement.

Genmar quits Florida for cheaper labor
 

HK wrote:
BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 21:10:13 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
...

Except for the job loss, this is hysterical. Florida is not a
high-wage state. I guess the good folks in Tennessee are now
competing with the Chinese.

It saddens me to find that you think this is hysterical.

As I said 10 years ago Harry, you are truly a piece of work.

Eisboch

Harry seems to have some rather deep seated problems with
Florida for
some reason, possibly related to why he had to leave here.



Absurd. I love Florida, and travel there at least twice a year.
Went twice last year. When I retire, it will probably be to
Hilton Head, the Golden Isles, or North Florida, unless we go to
Costa Rica. :}

Please go to Costa Rica, please! And, retire early.



Most likely, it will be Hilton Head or its environs. So sorry. (not)

Just as long as you stat in SC everything will be ok.


Unlikely. We like to travel. Heck, I even used to travel up to your
neck of the woods, Rockville-Gaithersburg, but it is so damn
congested there, we avoid it, except for an annual Greek festival. I
wonder where the traffic is worse, in your 'hood, or over in Fairfax
County.

Why do you care where I live and whether the traffic is good or bad.
You really do have a dossier on me don't you?

You have a pitiful life if you have to research and store information
on people posting to news groups.



Why would you care where I choose to retire?

It will free us from your incessant negativity. I hope and pray that you
retire to a locale that does not have electricity which would mean that
you have no way to post to USENET anymore.

Genmar quits Florida for cheaper labor
 

On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 13:22:19 -0500, HK wrote:

Why would you care where I choose to retire?

Possibly concern for the neighborhood ?

Genmar quits Florida for cheaper labor
 

On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 11:43:45 -0500, HK wrote:

How many large corporations have you worked for, let's say NYSE listed
for a frame of reference?

I'm guessing zero.



As a staff person and as a consultant, about a half dozen.

Sounds like you've had trouble holding a job, not surprising
considering your "issues".

Genmar quits Florida for cheaper labor
 

Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 11:43:45 -0500, HK wrote:

How many large corporations have you worked for, let's say NYSE listed
for a frame of reference?

I'm guessing zero.


As a staff person and as a consultant, about a half dozen.

Sounds like you've had trouble holding a job, not surprising
considering your "issues".


Sounds like you'd be wrong...again.

Genmar quits Florida for cheaper labor
 

On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 14:26:43 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 13:28:25 -0500, BAR wrote:

I don't understand the anti-corporation thing either. Corporations make
the world go around. They are the engine of economic advancement.

I don't want to say who is right or wrong but IBM was very clear with
me that their job was to return profits to the stockholders, not look
out for employees. If the two were not contradictory they did both but
when push came to shove, they "shoved" the employee. In my case (and
about 20,000 of my peers) that shove was out the door. Then they
regeged on most of the promises they made about our retirement.

OK, you have some issues with IBM. That doesn't answer the question as to
why liberals, generally, are down on corporations. What would their
alternative be?

As a retired soldier, I can tell you that the government isn't the greatest
at keeping promises either.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

Genmar quits Florida for cheaper labor
 

On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 14:26:43 -0500, wrote:

I don't want to say who is right or wrong but IBM was very clear with
me that their job was to return profits to the stockholders, not look
out for employees. If the two were not contradictory they did both but
when push came to shove, they "shoved" the employee. In my case (and
about 20,000 of my peers) that shove was out the door. Then they
regeged on most of the promises they made about our retirement.

IBM and several other companies like AT&T found themselves with a
surplus of highly trained folks left over from the days of
electro-mechanical hardware. They tried to retred as many as possible
into software development and other related areas but the numbers
involved were just too large, and the new generations of all digital
equipment were just too reliable and easy to maintain.

Genmar quits Florida for cheaper labor
 

Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 14:26:43 -0500, wrote:

I don't want to say who is right or wrong but IBM was very clear with
me that their job was to return profits to the stockholders, not look
out for employees. If the two were not contradictory they did both but
when push came to shove, they "shoved" the employee. In my case (and
about 20,000 of my peers) that shove was out the door. Then they
regeged on most of the promises they made about our retirement.

IBM and several other companies like AT&T found themselves with a
surplus of highly trained folks left over from the days of
electro-mechanical hardware. They tried to retred as many as possible
into software development and other related areas but the numbers
involved were just too large, and the new generations of all digital
equipment were just too reliable and easy to maintain.



Translation: We sucked everything out of you we could, now we're cutting
you loose and we're not going to keep the commitments we made about your
retirement, either.

Thank you, and f*ck you.

Your Friends

The Golden Parachutes at Management and Our Buddies, the Shareholders.

Genmar quits Florida for cheaper labor
 

"HK" wrote in message
...
jamesgangnc wrote:
On Jan 9, 8:40 am, wrote:
On Jan 8, 10:12 pm, "jamesgangnc" wrote:





Actually Sarasota is a fairly pricey area to be in. I won't say it is
the
most expensive but the central gulf coast area runs second to the miami
area.
"HK" wrote in message
...
Except for the job loss, this is hysterical. Florida is not a
high-wage
state. I guess the good folks in Tennessee are now competing with the
Chinese.
Genmar exits Florida, citing economic conditions
The high cost of doing business in Florida is driving out one of the
industry's biggest players. Genmar Holdings today announced plans to
phase
out its manufacturing operations in Sarasota in the next six months.
"Unfortunately, negative manufacturing economic conditions in Florida
and
the state of Florida's complete lack of interest in attempting to save
these jobs has left Genmar with no other choice than to move such
operations out of the state of Florida," said Genmar chairman and CEO
Irwin Jacobs in a statement.
He said Genmar, "has diligently attempted to preserve its
manufacturing
presence in the state of Florida, but it is just too costly compared
to
the other states where Genmar has existing manufacturing operations."
Product models larger than 25 feet in length for its various sal****er
boat brands will relocate out of Sarasota and transfer to other Genmar
plants throughout the United States. The change involves three of the
company's 14 boat brands: Hydra-Sport, Wellcraft and Seaswirl. These
three
brands manufacture a total of 58 models; 19 of them will be affected
by
the move.
Today, 67 percent of Hydra-Sports' models are manufactured in
Murfreesboro, Tenn.; 52 percent of Wellcraft's models are manufactured
in
Cadillac, Mich.; and 75 percent of Seaswirl's models are manufactured
in
Little Falls, Minn.
About 225 employees will be affected by this transition. However,
Genmar
says its Sarasota employees will earn special incentives during the
six-month transitional period. Also, to the extent possible, Genmar's
other plants will offer jobs to several Sarasota employees affected by
the
shut-down.
Genmar says it will continue to retain "a solid and experienced core
group" of boat designers, tool builders and other product development
personnel, along with its brand sales, customer service and management
in
Florida, particularly in light of its proximity to this key boating
market.
"While the above decisions and changes have been very difficult to
make,
the opportunities created for the affected Genmar's brands and its
other
facilities are very significant," said Jacobs.
"We recognize we are entering the beginning of the annual retail boat
show
selling season and all of our dealers can be assured that supporting
them
with sales, marketing and product are our first priorities," Jacobs
continued. "The transition referenced above has been carefully planned
for
a prudent and seamless transition as it relates to our dealers, their
customers and our entire organization."
Genmar, with about 4,000 employees and eight manufacturing centers,
builds
14 brands of recreational boats. These include Carver, Champion, Four
Winns, Glastron, Hydra-Sports, Larson, Marquis, Ranger, Scarab,
Seaswirl,
Stratos, Triumph, Wellcraft and Windsor Craft.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
But wages are still in the toilet there.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Not sure that has much bearing. They can hardly tell the existing
employees to take ap ay cut without getting a lot of grief so the
current labor rate only affects them if they were considering
expanding. Other wise it's all the other local costs of doing
business.


Which, of course, just proves my point that if you work for a large
corporation, the day you get hired, you should revise and start sending
out your resume, because sooner or later, that corporation is going to
screw you.

I worked for T for 30 years, never was screwed.

Genmar quits Florida for cheaper labor
 

D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
jamesgangnc wrote:
On Jan 9, 8:40 am, wrote:
On Jan 8, 10:12 pm, "jamesgangnc" wrote:





Actually Sarasota is a fairly pricey area to be in. I won't say it is
the
most expensive but the central gulf coast area runs second to the miami
area.
"HK" wrote in message
...
Except for the job loss, this is hysterical. Florida is not a
high-wage
state. I guess the good folks in Tennessee are now competing with the
Chinese.
Genmar exits Florida, citing economic conditions
The high cost of doing business in Florida is driving out one of the
industry's biggest players. Genmar Holdings today announced plans to
phase
out its manufacturing operations in Sarasota in the next six months.
"Unfortunately, negative manufacturing economic conditions in Florida
and
the state of Florida's complete lack of interest in attempting to save
these jobs has left Genmar with no other choice than to move such
operations out of the state of Florida," said Genmar chairman and CEO
Irwin Jacobs in a statement.
He said Genmar, "has diligently attempted to preserve its
manufacturing
presence in the state of Florida, but it is just too costly compared
to
the other states where Genmar has existing manufacturing operations."
Product models larger than 25 feet in length for its various sal****er
boat brands will relocate out of Sarasota and transfer to other Genmar
plants throughout the United States. The change involves three of the
company's 14 boat brands: Hydra-Sport, Wellcraft and Seaswirl. These
three
brands manufacture a total of 58 models; 19 of them will be affected
by
the move.
Today, 67 percent of Hydra-Sports' models are manufactured in
Murfreesboro, Tenn.; 52 percent of Wellcraft's models are manufactured
in
Cadillac, Mich.; and 75 percent of Seaswirl's models are manufactured
in
Little Falls, Minn.
About 225 employees will be affected by this transition. However,
Genmar
says its Sarasota employees will earn special incentives during the
six-month transitional period. Also, to the extent possible, Genmar's
other plants will offer jobs to several Sarasota employees affected by
the
shut-down.
Genmar says it will continue to retain "a solid and experienced core
group" of boat designers, tool builders and other product development
personnel, along with its brand sales, customer service and management
in
Florida, particularly in light of its proximity to this key boating
market.
"While the above decisions and changes have been very difficult to
make,
the opportunities created for the affected Genmar's brands and its
other
facilities are very significant," said Jacobs.
"We recognize we are entering the beginning of the annual retail boat
show
selling season and all of our dealers can be assured that supporting
them
with sales, marketing and product are our first priorities," Jacobs
continued. "The transition referenced above has been carefully planned
for
a prudent and seamless transition as it relates to our dealers, their
customers and our entire organization."
Genmar, with about 4,000 employees and eight manufacturing centers,
builds
14 brands of recreational boats. These include Carver, Champion, Four
Winns, Glastron, Hydra-Sports, Larson, Marquis, Ranger, Scarab,
Seaswirl,
Stratos, Triumph, Wellcraft and Windsor Craft.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
But wages are still in the toilet there.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Not sure that has much bearing. They can hardly tell the existing
employees to take ap ay cut without getting a lot of grief so the
current labor rate only affects them if they were considering
expanding. Other wise it's all the other local costs of doing
business.

Which, of course, just proves my point that if you work for a large
corporation, the day you get hired, you should revise and start sending
out your resume, because sooner or later, that corporation is going to
screw you.

I worked for T for 30 years, never was screwed.




Well, good. There used to be a sort of "social compact" in this country,
that sort of was, "You work your butt off for us, and we'll take care of
you." Really. But not anymore.

And this has carried over into other areas of the corporate world. I was
checking over my frequent flyer miles today. One airline had made a
substantial accounting error. It took three phones and about a dozen
"transfers" until I ended up with some nincompoop in Bangladore who was
not able to help me and who obviously was on a VOIP connection. So I
ended up sending a FAX in for help. I doubt the problem will ever be
fixed. After all, this is America, where corporations rule and where the
attitude is "fu*k you, pay me," the old "mob" line.

What's funny is that the old time mobs had more integrity than many of
today's corporations.

Genmar quits Florida for cheaper labor
 

HK wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 11:43:45 -0500, HK wrote:

How many large corporations have you worked for, let's say NYSE listed
for a frame of reference?

I'm guessing zero.


As a staff person and as a consultant, about a half dozen.

Sounds like you've had trouble holding a job, not surprising
considering your "issues".

Sounds like you'd be wrong...again.

There you go again, making statements without any data to back them up.
Is this another one of your Lobsta Boat, MD PHD Wife, Yale undergrad lies?

Genmar quits Florida for cheaper labor
 

HK wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 14:26:43 -0500, wrote:

I don't want to say who is right or wrong but IBM was very clear with
me that their job was to return profits to the stockholders, not look
out for employees. If the two were not contradictory they did both but
when push came to shove, they "shoved" the employee. In my case (and
about 20,000 of my peers) that shove was out the door. Then they
regeged on most of the promises they made about our retirement.

IBM and several other companies like AT&T found themselves with a
surplus of highly trained folks left over from the days of
electro-mechanical hardware. They tried to retred as many as possible
into software development and other related areas but the numbers
involved were just too large, and the new generations of all digital
equipment were just too reliable and easy to maintain.



Translation: We sucked everything out of you we could, now we're cutting
you loose and we're not going to keep the commitments we made about your
retirement, either.

Thank you, and f*ck you.

Your Friends

The Golden Parachutes at Management and Our Buddies, the Shareholders.

I thought you had a sweetheart employment contract at Ullico? Weren't
you on the golden boy list at that ah small company? Didn't you get in
on some killer stock deals with MCI, Tyco, Enron, and a few others.
Isn't that why you can afford the double wide manufactured home in
Calvert County?

Genmar quits Florida for cheaper labor
 

On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 15:51:31 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 14:26:43 -0500, wrote:

I don't want to say who is right or wrong but IBM was very clear with
me that their job was to return profits to the stockholders, not look
out for employees. If the two were not contradictory they did both but
when push came to shove, they "shoved" the employee. In my case (and
about 20,000 of my peers) that shove was out the door. Then they
regeged on most of the promises they made about our retirement.

IBM and several other companies like AT&T found themselves with a
surplus of highly trained folks left over from the days of
electro-mechanical hardware. They tried to retred as many as possible
into software development and other related areas but the numbers
involved were just too large, and the new generations of all digital
equipment were just too reliable and easy to maintain.

OK, but that get's away from the question. Why are liberals so
anti-corporation, and what is their alternative?
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

Genmar quits Florida for cheaper labor
 

"HK" wrote in message
...
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
jamesgangnc wrote:
On Jan 9, 8:40 am, wrote:
On Jan 8, 10:12 pm, "jamesgangnc" wrote:





Actually Sarasota is a fairly pricey area to be in. I won't say it
is the
most expensive but the central gulf coast area runs second to the
miami
area.
"HK" wrote in message
...
Except for the job loss, this is hysterical. Florida is not a
high-wage
state. I guess the good folks in Tennessee are now competing with
the
Chinese.
Genmar exits Florida, citing economic conditions
The high cost of doing business in Florida is driving out one of the
industry's biggest players. Genmar Holdings today announced plans to
phase
out its manufacturing operations in Sarasota in the next six months.
"Unfortunately, negative manufacturing economic conditions in
Florida and
the state of Florida's complete lack of interest in attempting to
save
these jobs has left Genmar with no other choice than to move such
operations out of the state of Florida," said Genmar chairman and
CEO
Irwin Jacobs in a statement.
He said Genmar, "has diligently attempted to preserve its
manufacturing
presence in the state of Florida, but it is just too costly compared
to
the other states where Genmar has existing manufacturing
operations."
Product models larger than 25 feet in length for its various
sal****er
boat brands will relocate out of Sarasota and transfer to other
Genmar
plants throughout the United States. The change involves three of
the
company's 14 boat brands: Hydra-Sport, Wellcraft and Seaswirl. These
three
brands manufacture a total of 58 models; 19 of them will be affected
by
the move.
Today, 67 percent of Hydra-Sports' models are manufactured in
Murfreesboro, Tenn.; 52 percent of Wellcraft's models are
manufactured in
Cadillac, Mich.; and 75 percent of Seaswirl's models are
manufactured in
Little Falls, Minn.
About 225 employees will be affected by this transition. However,
Genmar
says its Sarasota employees will earn special incentives during the
six-month transitional period. Also, to the extent possible,
Genmar's
other plants will offer jobs to several Sarasota employees affected
by the
shut-down.
Genmar says it will continue to retain "a solid and experienced core
group" of boat designers, tool builders and other product
development
personnel, along with its brand sales, customer service and
management in
Florida, particularly in light of its proximity to this key boating
market.
"While the above decisions and changes have been very difficult to
make,
the opportunities created for the affected Genmar's brands and its
other
facilities are very significant," said Jacobs.
"We recognize we are entering the beginning of the annual retail
boat show
selling season and all of our dealers can be assured that supporting
them
with sales, marketing and product are our first priorities," Jacobs
continued. "The transition referenced above has been carefully
planned for
a prudent and seamless transition as it relates to our dealers,
their
customers and our entire organization."
Genmar, with about 4,000 employees and eight manufacturing centers,
builds
14 brands of recreational boats. These include Carver, Champion,
Four
Winns, Glastron, Hydra-Sports, Larson, Marquis, Ranger, Scarab,
Seaswirl,
Stratos, Triumph, Wellcraft and Windsor Craft.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
But wages are still in the toilet there.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Not sure that has much bearing. They can hardly tell the existing
employees to take ap ay cut without getting a lot of grief so the
current labor rate only affects them if they were considering
expanding. Other wise it's all the other local costs of doing
business.

Which, of course, just proves my point that if you work for a large
corporation, the day you get hired, you should revise and start sending
out your resume, because sooner or later, that corporation is going to
screw you.

I worked for T for 30 years, never was screwed.


Well, good. There used to be a sort of "social compact" in this country,
that sort of was, "You work your butt off for us, and we'll take care of
you." Really. But not anymore.

And this has carried over into other areas of the corporate world. I was
checking over my frequent flyer miles today. One airline had made a
substantial accounting error. It took three phones and about a dozen
"transfers" until I ended up with some nincompoop in Bangladore who was
not able to help me and who obviously was on a VOIP connection. So I ended
up sending a FAX in for help. I doubt the problem will ever be fixed.
After all, this is America, where corporations rule and where the attitude
is "fu*k you, pay me," the old "mob" line.

What's funny is that the old time mobs had more integrity than many of
today's corporations.

Tell that to Paul Costellano, Sam Giancana, et. al.

Genmar quits Florida for cheaper labor
 

JimH wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 11:43:45 -0500, HK wrote:

How many large corporations have you worked for, let's say NYSE listed
for a frame of reference?

I'm guessing zero.


As a staff person and as a consultant, about a half dozen.
Sounds like you've had trouble holding a job, not surprising
considering your "issues".


It is not uncommon to move from company to company during your climb up the
job status or pay increase ladder. The days of sticking around with one
company your entire lifetime died in the 1960's.



I fortunately have been able to avoid big time corporate payroll
employment for many years now, although I do have two as clients now,
both in the financial services business. But I did serve time working
for a couple of listed corporations. I always preferred the smaller
companies, where creativity was encouraged and the management wasn't
overrun with young hustler MBAs.

Genmar quits Florida for cheaper labor
 

BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 14:26:43 -0500, wrote:

I don't want to say who is right or wrong but IBM was very clear with
me that their job was to return profits to the stockholders, not look
out for employees. If the two were not contradictory they did both but
when push came to shove, they "shoved" the employee. In my case (and
about 20,000 of my peers) that shove was out the door. Then they
regeged on most of the promises they made about our retirement.

IBM and several other companies like AT&T found themselves with a
surplus of highly trained folks left over from the days of
electro-mechanical hardware. They tried to retred as many as possible
into software development and other related areas but the numbers
involved were just too large, and the new generations of all digital
equipment were just too reliable and easy to maintain.



Translation: We sucked everything out of you we could, now we're
cutting you loose and we're not going to keep the commitments we made
about your retirement, either.

Thank you, and f*ck you.

Your Friends

The Golden Parachutes at Management and Our Buddies, the Shareholders.

I thought you had a sweetheart employment contract at Ullico? Weren't
you on the golden boy list at that ah small company? Didn't you get in
on some killer stock deals with MCI, Tyco, Enron, and a few others.
Isn't that why you can afford the double wide manufactured home in
Calvert County?




Drinking again?

Genmar quits Florida for cheaper labor
 

HK wrote:
BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 14:26:43 -0500, wrote:

I don't want to say who is right or wrong but IBM was very clear with
me that their job was to return profits to the stockholders, not look
out for employees. If the two were not contradictory they did both but
when push came to shove, they "shoved" the employee. In my case (and
about 20,000 of my peers) that shove was out the door. Then they
regeged on most of the promises they made about our retirement.

IBM and several other companies like AT&T found themselves with a
surplus of highly trained folks left over from the days of
electro-mechanical hardware. They tried to retred as many as possible
into software development and other related areas but the numbers
involved were just too large, and the new generations of all digital
equipment were just too reliable and easy to maintain.



Translation: We sucked everything out of you we could, now we're
cutting you loose and we're not going to keep the commitments we made
about your retirement, either.

Thank you, and f*ck you.

Your Friends

The Golden Parachutes at Management and Our Buddies, the Shareholders.

I thought you had a sweetheart employment contract at Ullico? Weren't
you on the golden boy list at that ah small company? Didn't you get in
on some killer stock deals with MCI, Tyco, Enron, and a few others.
Isn't that why you can afford the double wide manufactured home in
Calvert County?




Drinking again?


No, I've actually been working hard since 6:30 AM today. My first
con-call with my India team.

Genmar quits Florida for cheaper labor
 

D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
D.Duck wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
jamesgangnc wrote:
On Jan 9, 8:40 am, wrote:
On Jan 8, 10:12 pm, "jamesgangnc" wrote:





Actually Sarasota is a fairly pricey area to be in. I won't say it
is the
most expensive but the central gulf coast area runs second to the
miami
area.
"HK" wrote in message
...
Except for the job loss, this is hysterical. Florida is not a
high-wage
state. I guess the good folks in Tennessee are now competing with
the
Chinese.
Genmar exits Florida, citing economic conditions
The high cost of doing business in Florida is driving out one of the
industry's biggest players. Genmar Holdings today announced plans to
phase
out its manufacturing operations in Sarasota in the next six months.
"Unfortunately, negative manufacturing economic conditions in
Florida and
the state of Florida's complete lack of interest in attempting to
save
these jobs has left Genmar with no other choice than to move such
operations out of the state of Florida," said Genmar chairman and
CEO
Irwin Jacobs in a statement.
He said Genmar, "has diligently attempted to preserve its
manufacturing
presence in the state of Florida, but it is just too costly compared
to
the other states where Genmar has existing manufacturing
operations."
Product models larger than 25 feet in length for its various
sal****er
boat brands will relocate out of Sarasota and transfer to other
Genmar
plants throughout the United States. The change involves three of
the
company's 14 boat brands: Hydra-Sport, Wellcraft and Seaswirl. These
three
brands manufacture a total of 58 models; 19 of them will be affected
by
the move.
Today, 67 percent of Hydra-Sports' models are manufactured in
Murfreesboro, Tenn.; 52 percent of Wellcraft's models are
manufactured in
Cadillac, Mich.; and 75 percent of Seaswirl's models are
manufactured in
Little Falls, Minn.
About 225 employees will be affected by this transition. However,
Genmar
says its Sarasota employees will earn special incentives during the
six-month transitional period. Also, to the extent possible,
Genmar's
other plants will offer jobs to several Sarasota employees affected
by the
shut-down.
Genmar says it will continue to retain "a solid and experienced core
group" of boat designers, tool builders and other product
development
personnel, along with its brand sales, customer service and
management in
Florida, particularly in light of its proximity to this key boating
market.
"While the above decisions and changes have been very difficult to
make,
the opportunities created for the affected Genmar's brands and its
other
facilities are very significant," said Jacobs.
"We recognize we are entering the beginning of the annual retail
boat show
selling season and all of our dealers can be assured that supporting
them
with sales, marketing and product are our first priorities," Jacobs
continued. "The transition referenced above has been carefully
planned for
a prudent and seamless transition as it relates to our dealers,
their
customers and our entire organization."
Genmar, with about 4,000 employees and eight manufacturing centers,
builds
14 brands of recreational boats. These include Carver, Champion,
Four
Winns, Glastron, Hydra-Sports, Larson, Marquis, Ranger, Scarab,
Seaswirl,
Stratos, Triumph, Wellcraft and Windsor Craft.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
But wages are still in the toilet there.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Not sure that has much bearing. They can hardly tell the existing
employees to take ap ay cut without getting a lot of grief so the
current labor rate only affects them if they were considering
expanding. Other wise it's all the other local costs of doing
business.
Which, of course, just proves my point that if you work for a large
corporation, the day you get hired, you should revise and start sending
out your resume, because sooner or later, that corporation is going to
screw you.
I worked for T for 30 years, never was screwed.

Well, good. There used to be a sort of "social compact" in this country,
that sort of was, "You work your butt off for us, and we'll take care of
you." Really. But not anymore.

And this has carried over into other areas of the corporate world. I was
checking over my frequent flyer miles today. One airline had made a
substantial accounting error. It took three phones and about a dozen
"transfers" until I ended up with some nincompoop in Bangladore who was
not able to help me and who obviously was on a VOIP connection. So I ended
up sending a FAX in for help. I doubt the problem will ever be fixed.
After all, this is America, where corporations rule and where the attitude
is "fu*k you, pay me," the old "mob" line.

What's funny is that the old time mobs had more integrity than many of
today's corporations.

Tell that to Paul Costellano, Sam Giancana, et. al.



I didn't know those two, but I did know several others. It's Castellano,
I believe. The fact that those two and many others came to an "untimely"
end doesn't negate my posit. Jimmy Hoffa, who was a crook, had more
integrity than the Enron management team and did a lot less damage.

Genmar quits Florida for cheaper labor
 

On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 17:07:20 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:

What's funny is that the old time mobs had more integrity than many of
today's corporations.

Tell that to Paul Costellano, Sam Giancana, et. al.

Heh. They knew going in what was in the "separation" agreement.

"Big Pauly" had good taste in restaurants though . He was whacked in
front of one of my favorite NY steak houses.

Genmar quits Florida for cheaper labor
 

BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 14:26:43 -0500, wrote:

I don't want to say who is right or wrong but IBM was very clear with
me that their job was to return profits to the stockholders, not look
out for employees. If the two were not contradictory they did both
but
when push came to shove, they "shoved" the employee. In my case (and
about 20,000 of my peers) that shove was out the door. Then they
regeged on most of the promises they made about our retirement.

IBM and several other companies like AT&T found themselves with a
surplus of highly trained folks left over from the days of
electro-mechanical hardware. They tried to retred as many as possible
into software development and other related areas but the numbers
involved were just too large, and the new generations of all digital
equipment were just too reliable and easy to maintain.



Translation: We sucked everything out of you we could, now we're
cutting you loose and we're not going to keep the commitments we
made about your retirement, either.

Thank you, and f*ck you.

Your Friends

The Golden Parachutes at Management and Our Buddies, the Shareholders.

I thought you had a sweetheart employment contract at Ullico? Weren't
you on the golden boy list at that ah small company? Didn't you get
in on some killer stock deals with MCI, Tyco, Enron, and a few
others. Isn't that why you can afford the double wide manufactured
home in Calvert County?




Drinking again?


No, I've actually been working hard since 6:30 AM today. My first
con-call with my India team.



Figures you'd be involved in exporting jobs. Slime.

Genmar quits Florida for cheaper labor
 

"JimH" wrote in message
...



It is not uncommon to move from company to company during your climb up
the job status or pay increase ladder. The days of sticking around with
one company your entire lifetime died in the 1960's.


Which, BTW, is the other side of the story that Harry doesn't speak to in
his routine anti-corporation rhetoric.
A company typically invests in a new employee, particularly during the first
year or so before he/she has acquired all of the skills and knowledge to
have a positive influence on the bottom line.

The 60's-70's trend towards mobility in one's career, often leveraging
experience and knowledge gained at one company for higher pay or status at
another has now become very commonplace. Why is loyalty to employees by the
company expected but not employee loyalty to the company?

Eisboch

Genmar quits Florida for cheaper labor
 

Eisboch wrote:
"JimH" wrote in message
...
It is not uncommon to move from company to company during your climb up
the job status or pay increase ladder. The days of sticking around with
one company your entire lifetime died in the 1960's.


Which, BTW, is the other side of the story that Harry doesn't speak to in
his routine anti-corporation rhetoric.
A company typically invests in a new employee, particularly during the first
year or so before he/she has acquired all of the skills and knowledge to
have a positive influence on the bottom line.

The 60's-70's trend towards mobility in one's career, often leveraging
experience and knowledge gained at one company for higher pay or status at
another has now become very commonplace. Why is loyalty to employees by the
company expected but not employee loyalty to the company?

Eisboch




Well, someone got it. Which is why I suggested that the day a
corporation hires you is the day you should update your resume and have
it ready to go. Screw the corporation before it screws you.

Genmar quits Florida for cheaper labor
 

HK wrote:
BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 14:26:43 -0500, wrote:

I don't want to say who is right or wrong but IBM was very clear
with
me that their job was to return profits to the stockholders, not
look
out for employees. If the two were not contradictory they did
both but
when push came to shove, they "shoved" the employee. In my case (and
about 20,000 of my peers) that shove was out the door. Then they
regeged on most of the promises they made about our retirement.

IBM and several other companies like AT&T found themselves with a
surplus of highly trained folks left over from the days of
electro-mechanical hardware. They tried to retred as many as
possible
into software development and other related areas but the numbers
involved were just too large, and the new generations of all digital
equipment were just too reliable and easy to maintain.



Translation: We sucked everything out of you we could, now we're
cutting you loose and we're not going to keep the commitments we
made about your retirement, either.

Thank you, and f*ck you.

Your Friends

The Golden Parachutes at Management and Our Buddies, the Shareholders.

I thought you had a sweetheart employment contract at Ullico?
Weren't you on the golden boy list at that ah small company? Didn't
you get in on some killer stock deals with MCI, Tyco, Enron, and a
few others. Isn't that why you can afford the double wide
manufactured home in Calvert County?




Drinking again?


No, I've actually been working hard since 6:30 AM today. My first
con-call with my India team.



Figures you'd be involved in exporting jobs. Slime.

It is my corporate overlords not me who made the decision to off-shore
the jobs.

Genmar quits Florida for cheaper labor
 

BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 14:26:43 -0500, wrote:

I don't want to say who is right or wrong but IBM was very clear
with
me that their job was to return profits to the stockholders, not
look
out for employees. If the two were not contradictory they did
both but
when push came to shove, they "shoved" the employee. In my case
(and
about 20,000 of my peers) that shove was out the door. Then they
regeged on most of the promises they made about our retirement.

IBM and several other companies like AT&T found themselves with a
surplus of highly trained folks left over from the days of
electro-mechanical hardware. They tried to retred as many as
possible
into software development and other related areas but the numbers
involved were just too large, and the new generations of all digital
equipment were just too reliable and easy to maintain.



Translation: We sucked everything out of you we could, now we're
cutting you loose and we're not going to keep the commitments we
made about your retirement, either.

Thank you, and f*ck you.

Your Friends

The Golden Parachutes at Management and Our Buddies, the
Shareholders.

I thought you had a sweetheart employment contract at Ullico?
Weren't you on the golden boy list at that ah small company? Didn't
you get in on some killer stock deals with MCI, Tyco, Enron, and a
few others. Isn't that why you can afford the double wide
manufactured home in Calvert County?




Drinking again?


No, I've actually been working hard since 6:30 AM today. My first
con-call with my India team.



Figures you'd be involved in exporting jobs. Slime.

It is my corporate overlords not me who made the decision to off-shore
the jobs.


But you willingly facilitate them.

Genmar quits Florida for cheaper labor
 

"HK" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"JimH" wrote in message
...
It is not uncommon to move from company to company during your climb up
the job status or pay increase ladder. The days of sticking around with
one company your entire lifetime died in the 1960's.


Which, BTW, is the other side of the story that Harry doesn't speak to in
his routine anti-corporation rhetoric.
A company typically invests in a new employee, particularly during the
first year or so before he/she has acquired all of the skills and
knowledge to have a positive influence on the bottom line.

The 60's-70's trend towards mobility in one's career, often leveraging
experience and knowledge gained at one company for higher pay or status
at another has now become very commonplace. Why is loyalty to employees
by the company expected but not employee loyalty to the company?

Eisboch


Well, someone got it. Which is why I suggested that the day a corporation
hires you is the day you should update your resume and have it ready to
go. Screw the corporation before it screws you.

I guess all I can say is with that philosophy, you deserve to get screwed.

Eisboch

Genmar quits Florida for cheaper labor
 

"HK" wrote in message
...
BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 14:26:43 -0500, wrote:

I don't want to say who is right or wrong but IBM was very clear with
me that their job was to return profits to the stockholders, not look
out for employees. If the two were not contradictory they did both but
when push came to shove, they "shoved" the employee. In my case (and
about 20,000 of my peers) that shove was out the door. Then they
regeged on most of the promises they made about our retirement.

IBM and several other companies like AT&T found themselves with a
surplus of highly trained folks left over from the days of
electro-mechanical hardware. They tried to retred as many as possible
into software development and other related areas but the numbers
involved were just too large, and the new generations of all digital
equipment were just too reliable and easy to maintain.



Translation: We sucked everything out of you we could, now we're cutting
you loose and we're not going to keep the commitments we made about your
retirement, either.

Thank you, and f*ck you.

Your Friends

The Golden Parachutes at Management and Our Buddies, the Shareholders.

I thought you had a sweetheart employment contract at Ullico? Weren't you
on the golden boy list at that ah small company? Didn't you get in on
some killer stock deals with MCI, Tyco, Enron, and a few others. Isn't
that why you can afford the double wide manufactured home in Calvert
County?




Drinking again?


Again??
Did he ever stop?

Genmar quits Florida for cheaper labor
 

Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"JimH" wrote in message
...
It is not uncommon to move from company to company during your climb up
the job status or pay increase ladder. The days of sticking around with
one company your entire lifetime died in the 1960's.

Which, BTW, is the other side of the story that Harry doesn't speak to in
his routine anti-corporation rhetoric.
A company typically invests in a new employee, particularly during the
first year or so before he/she has acquired all of the skills and
knowledge to have a positive influence on the bottom line.

The 60's-70's trend towards mobility in one's career, often leveraging
experience and knowledge gained at one company for higher pay or status
at another has now become very commonplace. Why is loyalty to employees
by the company expected but not employee loyalty to the company?

Eisboch

Well, someone got it. Which is why I suggested that the day a corporation
hires you is the day you should update your resume and have it ready to
go. Screw the corporation before it screws you.

I guess all I can say is with that philosophy, you deserve to get screwed.

Eisboch




Are you suggesting that one be loyal to the corporation because that
will *ensure* loyalty to you?

Genmar quits Florida for cheaper labor
 

"HK" wrote in message
...
BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 14:26:43 -0500, wrote:

I don't want to say who is right or wrong but IBM was very clear
with
me that their job was to return profits to the stockholders, not
look
out for employees. If the two were not contradictory they did both
but
when push came to shove, they "shoved" the employee. In my case
(and
about 20,000 of my peers) that shove was out the door. Then they
regeged on most of the promises they made about our retirement.

IBM and several other companies like AT&T found themselves with a
surplus of highly trained folks left over from the days of
electro-mechanical hardware. They tried to retred as many as
possible
into software development and other related areas but the numbers
involved were just too large, and the new generations of all
digital
equipment were just too reliable and easy to maintain.



Translation: We sucked everything out of you we could, now we're
cutting you loose and we're not going to keep the commitments we
made about your retirement, either.

Thank you, and f*ck you.

Your Friends

The Golden Parachutes at Management and Our Buddies, the
Shareholders.

I thought you had a sweetheart employment contract at Ullico? Weren't
you on the golden boy list at that ah small company? Didn't you get
in on some killer stock deals with MCI, Tyco, Enron, and a few
others. Isn't that why you can afford the double wide manufactured
home in Calvert County?




Drinking again?


No, I've actually been working hard since 6:30 AM today. My first
con-call with my India team.



Figures you'd be involved in exporting jobs. Slime.

It is my corporate overlords not me who made the decision to off-shore
the jobs.


But you willingly facilitate them.

Bertie looks after Bertie......
Tough **** about anyone else!

Genmar quits Florida for cheaper labor
 

"HK" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"JimH" wrote in message
...
It is not uncommon to move from company to company during your climb
up the job status or pay increase ladder. The days of sticking around
with one company your entire lifetime died in the 1960's.

Which, BTW, is the other side of the story that Harry doesn't speak to
in his routine anti-corporation rhetoric.
A company typically invests in a new employee, particularly during the
first year or so before he/she has acquired all of the skills and
knowledge to have a positive influence on the bottom line.

The 60's-70's trend towards mobility in one's career, often leveraging
experience and knowledge gained at one company for higher pay or status
at another has now become very commonplace. Why is loyalty to
employees by the company expected but not employee loyalty to the
company?

Eisboch

Well, someone got it. Which is why I suggested that the day a
corporation hires you is the day you should update your resume and have
it ready to go. Screw the corporation before it screws you.

I guess all I can say is with that philosophy, you deserve to get
screwed.

Eisboch


Are you suggesting that one be loyal to the corporation because that will
*ensure* loyalty to you?

Of course not. I am merely making the point that the decline of mutual
loyalty has been a two way street.

Eisboch

Genmar quits Florida for cheaper labor
 

Don White wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 14:26:43 -0500, wrote:

I don't want to say who is right or wrong but IBM was very clear
with
me that their job was to return profits to the stockholders, not
look
out for employees. If the two were not contradictory they did both
but
when push came to shove, they "shoved" the employee. In my case
(and
about 20,000 of my peers) that shove was out the door. Then they
regeged on most of the promises they made about our retirement.
IBM and several other companies like AT&T found themselves with a
surplus of highly trained folks left over from the days of
electro-mechanical hardware. They tried to retred as many as
possible
into software development and other related areas but the numbers
involved were just too large, and the new generations of all
digital
equipment were just too reliable and easy to maintain.


Translation: We sucked everything out of you we could, now we're
cutting you loose and we're not going to keep the commitments we
made about your retirement, either.

Thank you, and f*ck you.

Your Friends

The Golden Parachutes at Management and Our Buddies, the
Shareholders.
I thought you had a sweetheart employment contract at Ullico? Weren't
you on the golden boy list at that ah small company? Didn't you get
in on some killer stock deals with MCI, Tyco, Enron, and a few
others. Isn't that why you can afford the double wide manufactured
home in Calvert County?



Drinking again?

No, I've actually been working hard since 6:30 AM today. My first
con-call with my India team.


Figures you'd be involved in exporting jobs. Slime.
It is my corporate overlords not me who made the decision to off-shore
the jobs.

But you willingly facilitate them.

Bertie looks after Bertie......
Tough **** about anyone else!



Correct.

Genmar quits Florida for cheaper labor
 

"JimH" wrote in message
...

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"JimH" wrote in message
...



It is not uncommon to move from company to company during your climb up
the job status or pay increase ladder. The days of sticking around with
one company your entire lifetime died in the 1960's.


Which, BTW, is the other side of the story that Harry doesn't speak to in
his routine anti-corporation rhetoric.
A company typically invests in a new employee, particularly during the
first year or so before he/she has acquired all of the skills and
knowledge to have a positive influence on the bottom line.

The 60's-70's trend towards mobility in one's career, often leveraging
experience and knowledge gained at one company for higher pay or status
at another has now become very commonplace. Why is loyalty to employees
by the company expected but not employee loyalty to the company?

Eisboch


Which came first........the chicken or the egg?

If an employee hits a glass ceiling with pay increases or promotions why
not try to better himself by searching the market? Heck, they could be
history the next day due to any number of reasons.

After employees have seen layoffs and sites being shut down they really
have no choice but to keep their options open and better themselves if the
opportunities arise. Loyalty to any company is dead and the corporations
caused it.


And 40 years ago anybody who held more than 2 or 3 different jobs in their
career by choice was considered a loser.

The current trend is to obtain employment in a particular business sector,
learn all you can about it, it's markets and maybe even it's customer base,
then quit and start up a competing business. People who do this usually
get their asses sued, as they should.

Eisboch

Genmar quits Florida for cheaper labor
 

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 18:37:18 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"JimH" wrote in message
.. .



It is not uncommon to move from company to company during your climb up
the job status or pay increase ladder. The days of sticking around with
one company your entire lifetime died in the 1960's.


Which, BTW, is the other side of the story that Harry doesn't speak to in
his routine anti-corporation rhetoric.
A company typically invests in a new employee, particularly during the
first
year or so before he/she has acquired all of the skills and knowledge to
have a positive influence on the bottom line.

The 60's-70's trend towards mobility in one's career, often leveraging
experience and knowledge gained at one company for higher pay or status at
another has now become very commonplace. Why is loyalty to employees by
the
company expected but not employee loyalty to the company?

Eisboch


Company loyalty to employees went out of fashion first. Ask any "computer
consultant"



The changes in work ethics and culture (both employer and employee) went out
the window long before the computer industry became big.

Eisboch

Genmar quits Florida for cheaper labor
 

HK wrote:
BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 14:26:43 -0500, wrote:

I don't want to say who is right or wrong but IBM was very
clear with
me that their job was to return profits to the stockholders,
not look
out for employees. If the two were not contradictory they did
both but
when push came to shove, they "shoved" the employee. In my case
(and
about 20,000 of my peers) that shove was out the door. Then they
regeged on most of the promises they made about our retirement.

IBM and several other companies like AT&T found themselves with a
surplus of highly trained folks left over from the days of
electro-mechanical hardware. They tried to retred as many as
possible
into software development and other related areas but the numbers
involved were just too large, and the new generations of all
digital
equipment were just too reliable and easy to maintain.



Translation: We sucked everything out of you we could, now we're
cutting you loose and we're not going to keep the commitments we
made about your retirement, either.

Thank you, and f*ck you.

Your Friends

The Golden Parachutes at Management and Our Buddies, the
Shareholders.

I thought you had a sweetheart employment contract at Ullico?
Weren't you on the golden boy list at that ah small company?
Didn't you get in on some killer stock deals with MCI, Tyco,
Enron, and a few others. Isn't that why you can afford the double
wide manufactured home in Calvert County?




Drinking again?


No, I've actually been working hard since 6:30 AM today. My first
con-call with my India team.



Figures you'd be involved in exporting jobs. Slime.

It is my corporate overlords not me who made the decision to off-shore
the jobs.


But you willingly facilitate them.

Harry,
While I don't believe you represent any corporations or have ever
represented any corporations, if you did, you are just as guilty of
facilitating them.

Genmar quits Florida for cheaper labor
 

HK wrote:
BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 14:26:43 -0500, wrote:

I don't want to say who is right or wrong but IBM was very
clear with
me that their job was to return profits to the stockholders,
not look
out for employees. If the two were not contradictory they did
both but
when push came to shove, they "shoved" the employee. In my case
(and
about 20,000 of my peers) that shove was out the door. Then they
regeged on most of the promises they made about our retirement.

IBM and several other companies like AT&T found themselves with a
surplus of highly trained folks left over from the days of
electro-mechanical hardware. They tried to retred as many as
possible
into software development and other related areas but the numbers
involved were just too large, and the new generations of all
digital
equipment were just too reliable and easy to maintain.



Translation: We sucked everything out of you we could, now we're
cutting you loose and we're not going to keep the commitments we
made about your retirement, either.

Thank you, and f*ck you.

Your Friends

The Golden Parachutes at Management and Our Buddies, the
Shareholders.

I thought you had a sweetheart employment contract at Ullico?
Weren't you on the golden boy list at that ah small company?
Didn't you get in on some killer stock deals with MCI, Tyco,
Enron, and a few others. Isn't that why you can afford the double
wide manufactured home in Calvert County?




Drinking again?


No, I've actually been working hard since 6:30 AM today. My first
con-call with my India team.



Figures you'd be involved in exporting jobs. Slime.

It is my corporate overlords not me who made the decision to off-shore
the jobs.


But you willingly facilitate them.

It is not a facilitation it is an agreement. I do what they ask me to do
and in return they give me a bag of gold every two weeks. The
interesting thing is that I can leave anytime I want with just a moments
notice and they can do the same. What could be better? I haven't been
fired since I worked at McDonald's as a teenager. When was your most
recent termination for cause?

Genmar quits Florida for cheaper labor
 

JimH wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
"JimH" wrote in message
...
It is not uncommon to move from company to company during your climb up
the job status or pay increase ladder. The days of sticking around with
one company your entire lifetime died in the 1960's.

Which, BTW, is the other side of the story that Harry doesn't speak to in
his routine anti-corporation rhetoric.
A company typically invests in a new employee, particularly during the
first year or so before he/she has acquired all of the skills and
knowledge to have a positive influence on the bottom line.

The 60's-70's trend towards mobility in one's career, often leveraging
experience and knowledge gained at one company for higher pay or status at
another has now become very commonplace. Why is loyalty to employees by
the company expected but not employee loyalty to the company?

Eisboch


Which came first........the chicken or the egg?

If an employee hits a glass ceiling with pay increases or promotions why not
try to better himself by searching the market? Heck, they could be history
the next day due to any number of reasons.

Have you given any thought as to who put that "glass ceiling" in front
of the aspiring CEO? Most of the time it is the aspiring CEO himself due
to his own lack of ability technically, politically or socially to
maneuver the corporate culture.

After employees have seen layoffs and sites being shut down they really have
no choice but to keep their options open and better themselves if the
opportunities arise. Loyalty to any company is dead and the corporations
caused it.

Are you owed a job. Once you get a job should you have a right to that
job for the rest of your life regardless of how your perform? You would
have made a great government bureaucrat. You trudge into work each day,
do just enough to keep you job and when the clock strikes five race out
the door and run over everyone in your way.

Genmar quits Florida for cheaper labor
 

BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 14:26:43 -0500, wrote:

I don't want to say who is right or wrong but IBM was very
clear with
me that their job was to return profits to the stockholders,
not look
out for employees. If the two were not contradictory they did
both but
when push came to shove, they "shoved" the employee. In my
case (and
about 20,000 of my peers) that shove was out the door. Then they
regeged on most of the promises they made about our retirement.

IBM and several other companies like AT&T found themselves with a
surplus of highly trained folks left over from the days of
electro-mechanical hardware. They tried to retred as many as
possible
into software development and other related areas but the numbers
involved were just too large, and the new generations of all
digital
equipment were just too reliable and easy to maintain.



Translation: We sucked everything out of you we could, now we're
cutting you loose and we're not going to keep the commitments we
made about your retirement, either.

Thank you, and f*ck you.

Your Friends

The Golden Parachutes at Management and Our Buddies, the
Shareholders.

I thought you had a sweetheart employment contract at Ullico?
Weren't you on the golden boy list at that ah small company?
Didn't you get in on some killer stock deals with MCI, Tyco,
Enron, and a few others. Isn't that why you can afford the double
wide manufactured home in Calvert County?




Drinking again?


No, I've actually been working hard since 6:30 AM today. My first
con-call with my India team.



Figures you'd be involved in exporting jobs. Slime.

It is my corporate overlords not me who made the decision to
off-shore the jobs.


But you willingly facilitate them.

It is not a facilitation it is an agreement. I do what they ask me to do
and in return they give me a bag of gold every two weeks. The
interesting thing is that I can leave anytime I want with just a moments
notice and they can do the same. What could be better? I haven't been
fired since I worked at McDonald's as a teenager. When was your most
recent termination for cause?

Uh. Never.

Genmar quits Florida for cheaper labor
 

HK wrote:
BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 14:26:43 -0500, wrote:

I don't want to say who is right or wrong but IBM was very
clear with
me that their job was to return profits to the stockholders,
not look
out for employees. If the two were not contradictory they did
both but
when push came to shove, they "shoved" the employee. In my
case (and
about 20,000 of my peers) that shove was out the door. Then they
regeged on most of the promises they made about our retirement.

IBM and several other companies like AT&T found themselves with a
surplus of highly trained folks left over from the days of
electro-mechanical hardware. They tried to retred as many as
possible
into software development and other related areas but the numbers
involved were just too large, and the new generations of all
digital
equipment were just too reliable and easy to maintain.



Translation: We sucked everything out of you we could, now
we're cutting you loose and we're not going to keep the
commitments we made about your retirement, either.

Thank you, and f*ck you.

Your Friends

The Golden Parachutes at Management and Our Buddies, the
Shareholders.

I thought you had a sweetheart employment contract at Ullico?
Weren't you on the golden boy list at that ah small company?
Didn't you get in on some killer stock deals with MCI, Tyco,
Enron, and a few others. Isn't that why you can afford the
double wide manufactured home in Calvert County?




Drinking again?


No, I've actually been working hard since 6:30 AM today. My first
con-call with my India team.



Figures you'd be involved in exporting jobs. Slime.

It is my corporate overlords not me who made the decision to
off-shore the jobs.


But you willingly facilitate them.

It is not a facilitation it is an agreement. I do what they ask me to
do and in return they give me a bag of gold every two weeks. The
interesting thing is that I can leave anytime I want with just a
moments notice and they can do the same. What could be better? I
haven't been fired since I worked at McDonald's as a teenager. When
was your most recent termination for cause?

Uh. Never.

With your belligerent attitude I find that hard to believe. Or, you
could be one of those bosses toady's who follows him around say yes and
wiping his ass when needed. You would get fired you would get layed off
when you boss gets fired.

Genmar quits Florida for cheaper labor
 

BAR wrote:
HK wrote:


Uh. Never.

With your belligerent attitude I find that hard to believe. Or, you
could be one of those bosses toady's who follows him around say yes and
wiping his ass when needed. You would get fired you would get layed off
when you boss gets fired.


Jesus, Bertie. You were a failure in the military, and you are
speculating on the work lives of others?