We often hear people lament that boat manufacturers have "priced the
middle class" out of boating. Not neccessarily, at least according to
a piece that's running in the Washington Post. The author cites a New
York economics professor who assigns "upper middle class" status to
families with incomes up to $300k a year and remarks that "rich" in
the US these days is a status that requires a $300k annual income
*and* a net worth in excess of $10mm. While the economics professor
confirms that less than 1% of Americans enjoy a net worth in excess of
$10mm, enough are earning $200-300k family incomes that the category
represents the upper portion of the middle class.

Intersting article. But be forewarned, the article quotes some of the
current candidates for POTUS.....and I'm trying to jump start an
economic discussion, *not* a political one. :-) My favorite line in
the article is the reference to "suburban families burning through
$200k a year yet still worrying about how to pay the orthodontist."

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/achen...dle_class.html

With a little bit of budgeting, it would seem reasonable that most
families could justify spending 6-month's income on a used boat or
perhaps a year's income on a new one; providing they have the cash
flow to support it and keep it long enough for the annual depreciation
to drop to a workable average. With that in mind, the "upper middle
class" should be able to afford many of the boats that we see with six
figure pricing attached.

If there are 100 million family wage earning units in the US and 1/2
of one percent of those units earn $300k per year *and* have net
assets over $10mm, that still leaves a group of 500,000 families that,
if interested in boating, could realistically aspire to own a $1mm
boat. I'd be very surprised to learn that the entire boating industry
sells (in the US) over 1000-1500 new boats each year priced above
$1mm. That's definitely beyond a "middle class" boat, and beyond even
an "upper middle class" financial profile, but there are a lot of
folks in the next category or so down, and a lot of nice boats still
available for 6, rather than 7-figure price tags.

So as astonishingly high as new boat prices often seem to be,
according to at least some economists the potential market is there
for the products.

Chuck Gould wrote:

So as astonishingly high as new boat prices often seem to be,
according to at least some economists the potential market is there
for the products.

Potential and actual are not one and the same. How many boats are
purchased new each year in the 6 figure price range and what is the
annual income of the "family" making the purchase? Purchases by
business' can be thrown out immediately.

Chuck Gould wrote:
We often hear people lament that boat manufacturers have "priced the
middle class" out of boating. Not neccessarily, at least according to
a piece that's running in the Washington Post. The author cites a New
York economics professor who assigns "upper middle class" status to
families with incomes up to $300k a year and remarks that "rich" in
the US these days is a status that requires a $300k annual income
*and* a net worth in excess of $10mm. While the economics professor
confirms that less than 1% of Americans enjoy a net worth in excess of
$10mm, enough are earning $200-300k family incomes that the category
represents the upper portion of the middle class.

Intersting article. But be forewarned, the article quotes some of the
current candidates for POTUS.....and I'm trying to jump start an
economic discussion, *not* a political one. :-) My favorite line in
the article is the reference to "suburban families burning through
$200k a year yet still worrying about how to pay the orthodontist."

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/achen...dle_class.html

With a little bit of budgeting, it would seem reasonable that most
families could justify spending 6-month's income on a used boat or
perhaps a year's income on a new one; providing they have the cash
flow to support it and keep it long enough for the annual depreciation
to drop to a workable average. With that in mind, the "upper middle
class" should be able to afford many of the boats that we see with six
figure pricing attached.

If there are 100 million family wage earning units in the US and 1/2
of one percent of those units earn $300k per year *and* have net
assets over $10mm, that still leaves a group of 500,000 families that,
if interested in boating, could realistically aspire to own a $1mm
boat. I'd be very surprised to learn that the entire boating industry
sells (in the US) over 1000-1500 new boats each year priced above
$1mm. That's definitely beyond a "middle class" boat, and beyond even
an "upper middle class" financial profile, but there are a lot of
folks in the next category or so down, and a lot of nice boats still
available for 6, rather than 7-figure price tags.

So as astonishingly high as new boat prices often seem to be,
according to at least some economists the potential market is there
for the products.


"With a little bit of budgeting, it would seem reasonable that most
families could justify spending 6-month's income on a used boat or
perhaps a year's income on a new one."


Only if they are insane.

On Nov 27, 8:15�am, BAR wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:

So as astonishingly high as new boat prices often seem to be,
according to at least some economists the potential market is there
for the products.

Potential and actual are not one and the same. How many boats are
purchased new each year in the 6 figure price range and what is the
annual income of the "family" making the purchase? Purchases by
business' can be thrown out immediately.

As I stated, I don't have the actual numbers but I would be surprised
to learn that more than 1000-1500 new boats priced much over $1mm are
sold in the US each year.

As far as "how many 6-figure boats" are sold, that's pretty easy to
develop. Take the total number of new boats sold each year, and
multiply by about 20%. That would elminate the roughly 80% of new
boats that are inflatables, rowing or sailing dinghies, small
runabouts, etc and leave only larger power and sailboats. Some of the
larger boats might sell for just under $100k, but some of the
runabouts can get over the same amount- so my horseback guess would be
that somewhere near 1/5 of all new boats sold sell for 6-figure prices
or more. New boats well under 30-feet routinely break the 6-figure
price "barrier" these days, so it's not just the elite yachtsman or
woman paying a year's wages for a new boat.

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:27:26 -0500, HK wrote:



Only if they are insane.

What's a good pilot house Parker with twin OBs selling for these days?

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:34:28 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:

We often hear people lament that boat manufacturers have "priced the
middle class" out of boating. Not neccessarily, at least according to
a piece that's running in the Washington Post. The author cites a New
York economics professor who assigns "upper middle class" status to
families with incomes up to $300k a year and remarks that "rich" in
the US these days is a status that requires a $300k annual income
*and* a net worth in excess of $10mm. While the economics professor
confirms that less than 1% of Americans enjoy a net worth in excess of
$10mm, enough are earning $200-300k family incomes that the category
represents the upper portion of the middle class.

Intersting article. But be forewarned, the article quotes some of the
current candidates for POTUS.....and I'm trying to jump start an
economic discussion, *not* a political one. :-) My favorite line in
the article is the reference to "suburban families burning through
$200k a year yet still worrying about how to pay the orthodontist."

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/achen...dle_class.html

With a little bit of budgeting, it would seem reasonable that most
families could justify spending 6-month's income on a used boat or
perhaps a year's income on a new one; providing they have the cash
flow to support it and keep it long enough for the annual depreciation
to drop to a workable average. With that in mind, the "upper middle
class" should be able to afford many of the boats that we see with six
figure pricing attached.

If there are 100 million family wage earning units in the US and 1/2
of one percent of those units earn $300k per year *and* have net
assets over $10mm, that still leaves a group of 500,000 families that,
if interested in boating, could realistically aspire to own a $1mm
boat. I'd be very surprised to learn that the entire boating industry
sells (in the US) over 1000-1500 new boats each year priced above
$1mm. That's definitely beyond a "middle class" boat, and beyond even
an "upper middle class" financial profile, but there are a lot of
folks in the next category or so down, and a lot of nice boats still
available for 6, rather than 7-figure price tags.

So as astonishingly high as new boat prices often seem to be,
according to at least some economists the potential market is there
for the products.

Hey, I got one of the nicest boats mentioned in the group for 5 figures! Of
course, it doesn't have a low transom, but what the hey!
--
John H

Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:27:26 -0500, HK wrote:


Only if they are insane.

What's a good pilot house Parker with twin OBs selling for these days?



I'd guess a 25-footer with twins would run $90,000 before you got out
the door.

HK wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:27:26 -0500, HK wrote:


Only if they are insane.

What's a good pilot house Parker with twin OBs selling for these days?



I'd guess a 25-footer with twins would run $90,000 before you got out
the door.

If I am not mistaken, the 25' does not include the LT package, is that
correct?

Reginald Smithers III wrote:
HK wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:27:26 -0500, HK wrote:


Only if they are insane.

What's a good pilot house Parker with twin OBs selling for these days?



I'd guess a 25-footer with twins would run $90,000 before you got out
the door.

If I am not mistaken, the 25' does not include the LT package, is that
correct?


Until recently, Parker offered 25-footers without transom brackets, and
it still offers 18-23 footers without brackets, as do many other
manufacturers of quality boats. Why this should concern you, a
non-boater who plies the waters of Lake Lanier in his imaginary
Bayliner, is a mystery.

Gene Kearns wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:27:26 -0500, HK penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

"With a little bit of budgeting, it would seem reasonable that most
families could justify spending 6-month's income on a used boat or
perhaps a year's income on a new one."


Only if they are insane.

In 2006, the median annual household income according to the US Census
Bureau was determined to be $48,201.00.

Maybe a 245 Bayliner Cruiser for 50K?

Maybe 3 families could go together and buy a 28' Mako.... 106K on sale
at Bass Pro....


Nah.........




I've always thought expensive, depreciating toys should be purchased
with "loose cash," and not with loans, or with a critical savings
account. I get a big chuckle out of some of the ads I see for very
expensive boats that tout that you can buy one for only $XXX a month for
36 months, and then, of course, you have 20 years of payments left at
$ZZZZ a month. What a nightmare.