We celebrated Black Friday...
 

....by not buying a damned thing either at a real store or an internet
store. :}


We did all go out to dinner last night, at a restaurant where none of
the food was produced in China.

We celebrated Black Friday...
 

On Nov 24, 6:28�am, Gene Kearns
wrote:
On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 09:04:19 -0500, HK penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

...by not buying a damned thing either at a real store or an internet
store. �:}

We did all go out to dinner last night, at a restaurant where none of
the food was produced in China.

Without intent, I guess we did the same. Had local seafood at a
favorite restaurant that will close for the season tomorrow.... no
more dining there 'till 2/14 :-(

My only transgression was to buy a water pump, 2 gallons of
antifreeze, and a radiator hose..... out of necessity.

Yo D-Unit.... we'll probably take the boat and eat at Provision II
this afternoon, if you are around......

--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepagehttp://pamandgene.idleplay.net/� � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � �

Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguidehttp://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats� � � � � � � � � � � � � � �

---
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Virus Database (VPS): 071123-0, 11/23/2007
Tested on: 11/24/2007 9:28:12 AM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.http://www.avast.com

I had a deadline to meet, and was working, off-and-on, from about 4 AM
until 7:30 PM. But I did get some shopping done in between. Went to
Home Depot to pay for some new stoves and refrigerators before CC
interest would apply to the bill (would have started today).

Bought six electric candy canes and six electric "trees" to mount on
the boat in advance of the Seafair Holiday cruise next weekend. We'll
have the boat decked out very nicely for the enjoyment of our
developmentally disadvantaged guests, and at least be somewhat
noticeable in the holiday lights parade the following weekend.


Ode to holiday light parades:
(Apologies to Old English Carol, whoever she is)

Trod the soles of teak and holly
Fa, la, la, la, la; la, la, la, la
Let's go boating and be jolly
Fa la la la la; la, la, la, la
Our rain gear's soaked and we're all sneezing
Fa la la la la; la la la la
At least we live where it ain't freezing
Fa la la la la; la la la la

See the GPS before us
Fa, la, la, la, la; la la la la
With all these bulbs they can't ignore us
Fa, la, la la la; la, la, la , la
Mind your place, maintain position
Fa, la, la la la; la, la, la, la
We all parade with no night vision
Fa, la, la, la la; la, la, la..........

We celebrated Black Friday...
 

Chuck Gould wrote:

Bought six electric candy canes and six electric "trees" to mount on
the boat in advance of the Seafair Holiday cruise next weekend.

Goods from PRC?

We celebrated Black Friday...
 

On Nov 24, 8:27�am, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
Bought six electric candy canes and six electric "trees" to mount on
the boat in advance of the Seafair Holiday cruise next weekend.

Goods from PRC?


I'd have to check the bags and boxes
Fa, la, la, la la; la, la, la,la
Keeping track is so obnoxious
Fa, la, la, la; la , la, la la
Most small things we buy today
Fa, la, la, la, la; la la la la
Are built nowhere in USA
Fa la la la la; la la la la

Could be Korea, I don't know
Fa, la, la, la la; la, la la, la
Maybe Hecho in Mexico
Fal, la, la, la la; la, la, la la
Three bucks for lights on thin wire cages?
Fa, la , la, la, la; la, la, la, la la
Nobody's making decent wages
Fa, la, la, la, la; la, la, la la

We celebrated Black Friday...
 

Chuck Gould wrote:
On Nov 24, 8:27�am, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
Bought six electric candy canes and six electric "trees" to mount on
the boat in advance of the Seafair Holiday cruise next weekend.
Goods from PRC?


I'd have to check the bags and boxes
Fa, la, la, la la; la, la, la,la
Keeping track is so obnoxious
Fa, la, la, la; la , la, la la
Most small things we buy today
Fa, la, la, la, la; la la la la
Are built nowhere in USA
Fa la la la la; la la la la

Could be Korea, I don't know
Fa, la, la, la la; la, la la, la
Maybe Hecho in Mexico
Fal, la, la, la la; la, la, la la
Three bucks for lights on thin wire cages?
Fa, la , la, la, la; la, la, la, la la
Nobody's making decent wages
Fa, la, la, la, la; la, la, la la


That's correct: many if not most things are no longer made in the USA,
but if you are going to buy foreign-made goods, and we all do, you can
still try to avoid goods made in countries like the People's Republic of
China.

I was just packing away my Garmin GPS for the winter and of course I
remember it was not manufactured in the USA. But it was manufactured in
Taiwan, which is acceptable. Now is there anything inside its case that
was made in the PRC? I am sure there is. But I can't control that. Had
the unit carried a Made in China label, I would not have purchased it.

We celebrated Black Friday...
 

On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 12:09:21 -0500, HK wrote:

Chuck Gould wrote:
On Nov 24, 8:27?am, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
Bought six electric candy canes and six electric "trees" to mount on
the boat in advance of the Seafair Holiday cruise next weekend.
Goods from PRC?


I'd have to check the bags and boxes
Fa, la, la, la la; la, la, la,la
Keeping track is so obnoxious
Fa, la, la, la; la , la, la la
Most small things we buy today
Fa, la, la, la, la; la la la la
Are built nowhere in USA
Fa la la la la; la la la la

Could be Korea, I don't know
Fa, la, la, la la; la, la la, la
Maybe Hecho in Mexico
Fal, la, la, la la; la, la, la la
Three bucks for lights on thin wire cages?
Fa, la , la, la, la; la, la, la, la la
Nobody's making decent wages
Fa, la, la, la, la; la, la, la la


That's correct: many if not most things are no longer made in the USA,
but if you are going to buy foreign-made goods, and we all do, you can
still try to avoid goods made in countries like the People's Republic of
China.

I was just packing away my Garmin GPS for the winter and of course I
remember it was not manufactured in the USA. But it was manufactured in
Taiwan, which is acceptable. Now is there anything inside its case that
was made in the PRC? I am sure there is. But I can't control that. Had
the unit carried a Made in China label, I would not have purchased it.

Harry, have you ever heard the metaphor, "He's as full of **** as a
Christmas goose"?


--
John H

We celebrated Black Friday...
 

On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 12:09:21 -0500, HK wrote:

I was just packing away my Garmin GPS for the winter and of course I
remember it was not manufactured in the USA. But it was manufactured in
Taiwan, which is acceptable. Now is there anything inside its case that
was made in the PRC? I am sure there is. But I can't control that. Had
the unit carried a Made in China label, I would not have purchased it.

You do realise that Taiwan is China right?

We celebrated Black Friday...
 

HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Nov 24, 8:27�am, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
Bought six electric candy canes and six electric "trees" to mount on
the boat in advance of the Seafair Holiday cruise next weekend.
Goods from PRC?


I'd have to check the bags and boxes
Fa, la, la, la la; la, la, la,la
Keeping track is so obnoxious
Fa, la, la, la; la , la, la la
Most small things we buy today
Fa, la, la, la, la; la la la la
Are built nowhere in USA
Fa la la la la; la la la la

Could be Korea, I don't know
Fa, la, la, la la; la, la la, la
Maybe Hecho in Mexico
Fal, la, la, la la; la, la, la la
Three bucks for lights on thin wire cages?
Fa, la , la, la, la; la, la, la, la la
Nobody's making decent wages
Fa, la, la, la, la; la, la, la la


That's correct: many if not most things are no longer made in the USA,
but if you are going to buy foreign-made goods, and we all do, you can
still try to avoid goods made in countries like the People's Republic of
China.

Over-priced union labor moved most manufacturing offshore.

I was just packing away my Garmin GPS for the winter and of course I
remember it was not manufactured in the USA. But it was manufactured in
Taiwan, which is acceptable. Now is there anything inside its case that
was made in the PRC? I am sure there is. But I can't control that. Had
the unit carried a Made in China label, I would not have purchased it.

Isn't Taiwan just a rogue province of the Chi-Coms?

We celebrated Black Friday...
 

"HK" wrote in message
...
...by not buying a damned thing either at a real store or an internet
store. :}


We did all go out to dinner last night, at a restaurant where none of the
food was produced in China.

Did you turn the plates over to see if they were made in China? What about
the cutlery? Might have been Mexico, Japan or Korea.

You might want to give up the anti-China thing.

Doubt the GPS or depth finder you us is really made in the USA. Even if it
says made in the US, open it up - 90% or more of the parts came from Asia.
Fishing line? Knives?

Could get really hard to enjoy life without those Asian made stuff. But
with the US dollar being so soft on the world markets, yep our
banking/congress system sure has made it more expensive.

We celebrated Black Friday...
 

"BAR" wrote in message
. ..

That's correct: many if not most things are no longer made in the USA,
but if you are going to buy foreign-made goods, and we all do, you can
still try to avoid goods made in countries like the People's Republic of
China.

Over-priced union labor moved most manufacturing offshore.

Don't forget overpriced management.

12M year CEO pays for a lot of workers a producing.

We celebrated Black Friday...
 

Canuck57 wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
. ..

That's correct: many if not most things are no longer made in the USA,
but if you are going to buy foreign-made goods, and we all do, you can
still try to avoid goods made in countries like the People's Republic of
China.
Over-priced union labor moved most manufacturing offshore.

Don't forget overpriced management.

12M year CEO pays for a lot of workers a producing.



A guy who is the CEO of a company that has 20,000 employees and his
leadership increases profits by 20% what is a fair wage for that type of
performance?

We celebrated Black Friday...
 

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 12:09:21 -0500, HK wrote:

I was just packing away my Garmin GPS for the winter and of course I
remember it was not manufactured in the USA. But it was manufactured in
Taiwan, which is acceptable. Now is there anything inside its case that
was made in the PRC? I am sure there is. But I can't control that. Had
the unit carried a Made in China label, I would not have purchased it.

You do realise that Taiwan is China right?


Technically, but not practically. Conditions there are not the same as
they are in the PRC for many important reasons.

We celebrated Black Friday...
 

Canuck57 wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...
...by not buying a damned thing either at a real store or an internet
store. :}


We did all go out to dinner last night, at a restaurant where none of the
food was produced in China.

Did you turn the plates over to see if they were made in China? What about
the cutlery? Might have been Mexico, Japan or Korea.

You might want to give up the anti-China thing.

Doubt the GPS or depth finder you us is really made in the USA. Even if it
says made in the US, open it up - 90% or more of the parts came from Asia.
Fishing line? Knives?

Could get really hard to enjoy life without those Asian made stuff. But
with the US dollar being so soft on the world markets, yep our
banking/congress system sure has made it more expensive.



Why should I give up the anti-PRC thing? I don't have problems with
goods made in Japan or Korea.

We celebrated Black Friday...
 

On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 18:13:09 -0500, " JimH" ask wrote:


"HK" wrote in message
...
...by not buying a damned thing either at a real store or an internet
store. :}


We did all go out to dinner last night, at a restaurant where none of the
food was produced in China.





My daughter and her boyfriend went to the mall yesterday and got some good
deals, particularly at the Gap.

Mrs. H and I stayed home........I watch college football most of the day and
never left the house.

Glad you had a nice quiet day. Before long you'll have grandkids to mess up
your whole Thanksgiving. Better change your attitude before that happens!
--
John H

We celebrated Black Friday...
 

"BAR" wrote in message
. ..
Canuck57 wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
. ..

That's correct: many if not most things are no longer made in the USA,
but if you are going to buy foreign-made goods, and we all do, you can
still try to avoid goods made in countries like the People's Republic
of China.
Over-priced union labor moved most manufacturing offshore.

Don't forget overpriced management.

12M year CEO pays for a lot of workers a producing.



A guy who is the CEO of a company that has 20,000 employees and his
leadership increases profits by 20% what is a fair wage for that type of
performance?

I don't hear the CEOs of Ford or GM having their wages garnished because of
the domestic auto tailspin.

We celebrated Black Friday...
 

On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 23:08:37 GMT, "Canuck57"
wrote:

Fishing line? Knives?

Actually, my fishing line is made in Putnam by Woodstock Line.

As to knives? Made by Russel Harrington in Southbridge, MA. My
Leatherman tools are made in Portland, OR. My fishing knives are all
Buck and made in Idaho.

Ah - life is good. :)

We celebrated Black Friday...
 

On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 18:20:56 -0500, HK wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 12:09:21 -0500, HK wrote:

I was just packing away my Garmin GPS for the winter and of course I
remember it was not manufactured in the USA. But it was manufactured in
Taiwan, which is acceptable. Now is there anything inside its case that
was made in the PRC? I am sure there is. But I can't control that. Had
the unit carried a Made in China label, I would not have purchased it.

You do realise that Taiwan is China right?

Technically, but not practically. Conditions there are not the same as
they are in the PRC for many important reasons.

You know, and I mean this in a complimentary way, you have an amazing
ability to rationalize anything.

It's truly remarkable. :)

We celebrated Black Friday...
 

On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 18:13:12 -0500, BAR wrote:

Canuck57 wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
. ..

That's correct: many if not most things are no longer made in the USA,
but if you are going to buy foreign-made goods, and we all do, you can
still try to avoid goods made in countries like the People's Republic of
China.
Over-priced union labor moved most manufacturing offshore.

Don't forget overpriced management.

12M year CEO pays for a lot of workers a producing.

A guy who is the CEO of a company that has 20,000 employees and his
leadership increases profits by 20% what is a fair wage for that type of
performance?

That's an interesting subject - just what is "fair" compensation.

Take Dick Grasso for example. A lot of economists, including
Greenspan, give him total credit for saving the economy almost single
handed through sheer force of personality and hard work after 9/11 in
getting the merchantile and stock exchanges to work in concert on
reopening.

He was paid 160 million when he was retired and you'd think he raped
everybody's mother.

Personally, if he had been paid one billion it wouldn't have been
enough for that performance.

On the other hand, how much is what's his face at Exxon worth who
happened to stumble onto a bubble in oil trading and, basically did
nothing for his upty ump million dollar "bonus"?

It's a tricky question.

We celebrated Black Friday...
 

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 18:20:56 -0500, HK wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 12:09:21 -0500, HK wrote:

I was just packing away my Garmin GPS for the winter and of course I
remember it was not manufactured in the USA. But it was manufactured in
Taiwan, which is acceptable. Now is there anything inside its case that
was made in the PRC? I am sure there is. But I can't control that. Had
the unit carried a Made in China label, I would not have purchased it.
You do realise that Taiwan is China right?
Technically, but not practically. Conditions there are not the same as
they are in the PRC for many important reasons.

You know, and I mean this in a complimentary way, you have an amazing
ability to rationalize anything.

It's truly remarkable. :)


You're comparing life in Taiwan to life in the PRC? Taiwan, as part of
the ROC, is a democracy and its residents choose their leaders in free
elections. The PRC is a dictatorship.

We celebrated Black Friday...
 

On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 23:47:45 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 23:08:37 GMT, "Canuck57"
wrote:

Fishing line? Knives?

Actually, my fishing line is made in Putnam by Woodstock Line.

As to knives? Made by Russel Harrington in Southbridge, MA. My
Leatherman tools are made in Portland, OR. My fishing knives are all
Buck and made in Idaho.

Ah - life is good. :)

While visiting a friend in the Netherlands, I gave him a Leatherman I'd
ordered from LLBean as a Christmas present. I was proud of the fact it was
a quality tool made in the USA.

When he opened it, he said it was made in Taiwan. I thought he was talking
about the box and told him so. He then showed my on the pliers tool the
stamp, "Made in Taiwan". I was so ****ed at LLBean!

When I got back to Stuttgart, I called LLBean. They immediately sent me
another, telling me not to worry about returning the earlier one. The one
they sent was made in the USA. I've never seen LLBean sell another one made
in Taiwan. I think the Leatherman folks got the word on that fiasco.
--
John H

We celebrated Black Friday...
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...


On the other hand, how much is what's his face at Exxon worth who
happened to stumble onto a bubble in oil trading and, basically did
nothing for his upty ump million dollar "bonus"?

It's a tricky question.


It is. I was thinking about it and asked myself this:

If you drive to Foxwoods, sit down at a one-armed bandit, throw in a 25 cent
token and hit the jackpot for a few million, did you earn it? If not,
should you be able to keep it?

Eisboch

We celebrated Black Friday...
 

"HK" wrote in message
. ..


You're comparing life in Taiwan to life in the PRC? Taiwan, as part of the
ROC, is a democracy and its residents choose their leaders in free
elections. The PRC is a dictatorship.

How about Cuba?

Eisboch

We celebrated Black Friday...
 

Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
. ..

You're comparing life in Taiwan to life in the PRC? Taiwan, as part of the
ROC, is a democracy and its residents choose their leaders in free
elections. The PRC is a dictatorship.

How about Cuba?

Eisboch




In relation to what? Cuba is a dictatorship.

We celebrated Black Friday...
 

"HK" wrote in message
. ..
Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
. ..

You're comparing life in Taiwan to life in the PRC? Taiwan, as part of
the ROC, is a democracy and its residents choose their leaders in free
elections. The PRC is a dictatorship.

How about Cuba?

Eisboch


In relation to what? Cuba is a dictatorship.

Sorry. Cuba in terms of buying their products or produce.

Eisboch

We celebrated Black Friday...
 

On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 20:07:21 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .


On the other hand, how much is what's his face at Exxon worth who
happened to stumble onto a bubble in oil trading and, basically did
nothing for his upty ump million dollar "bonus"?

It's a tricky question.

It is. I was thinking about it and asked myself this:

If you drive to Foxwoods, sit down at a one-armed bandit, throw in a 25 cent
token and hit the jackpot for a few million, did you earn it? If not,
should you be able to keep it?

Interesting question.

If you earned the .25¢ and used it to take the gamble to win a million
dollars, then I'd say yes.

In the case of what's his face, his bonus was based solely on forces
quite beyond his control. He benefited from activities not directly
under his control.

Now, if he was paid his agreed upon amount for good performance as CEO
and the windfall amount spread amoung the shareholders as a dividend,
then I wouldn't have a problem.

We celebrated Black Friday...
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...


If you earned the .25¢ and used it to take the gamble to win a million
dollars, then I'd say yes.

In the case of what's his face, his bonus was based solely on forces
quite beyond his control. He benefited from activities not directly
under his control.

Now, if he was paid his agreed upon amount for good performance as CEO
and the windfall amount spread amoung the shareholders as a dividend,
then I wouldn't have a problem.



Let's say you found the 25 cent token on the floor. What say you then?

I am not familiar with this Exxon dude or his story, but I am sure he was
hired with a contract.
I'd agree, an unearned windfall is not morally his, but contractually it
probably is.

Eisboch

We celebrated Black Friday...
 

On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 20:33:20 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .


If you earned the .25¢ and used it to take the gamble to win a million
dollars, then I'd say yes.

In the case of what's his face, his bonus was based solely on forces
quite beyond his control. He benefited from activities not directly
under his control.

Now, if he was paid his agreed upon amount for good performance as CEO
and the windfall amount spread amoung the shareholders as a dividend,
then I wouldn't have a problem.

Let's say you found the 25 cent token on the floor. What say you then?

Good point.

"Finder's keepers, loser's weepers"? :)

I am not familiar with this Exxon dude or his story, but I am sure he was
hired with a contract.
I'd agree, an unearned windfall is not morally his, but contractually it
probably is.

Also good points.

It's a pretty complex issue.

We celebrated Black Friday...
 

" JimH" ask wrote in message
...


Obscene salaries are obscene.......period. It does not matter if they go
to janitors or CEO's.


Or athletes.

Eisboch

We celebrated Black Friday...
 

JimH wrote:
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 20:33:20 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...

If you earned the .25¢ and used it to take the gamble to win a million
dollars, then I'd say yes.

In the case of what's his face, his bonus was based solely on forces
quite beyond his control. He benefited from activities not directly
under his control.

Now, if he was paid his agreed upon amount for good performance as CEO
and the windfall amount spread amoung the shareholders as a dividend,
then I wouldn't have a problem.
Let's say you found the 25 cent token on the floor. What say you then?
Good point.

"Finder's keepers, loser's weepers"? :)

I am not familiar with this Exxon dude or his story, but I am sure he was
hired with a contract.
I'd agree, an unearned windfall is not morally his, but contractually it
probably is.
Also good points.

It's a pretty complex issue.

Obscene salaries are obscene.......period. It does not matter if they go to
janitors or CEO's.

Why?

We celebrated Black Friday...
 

Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
. ..
Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
. ..
You're comparing life in Taiwan to life in the PRC? Taiwan, as part of
the ROC, is a democracy and its residents choose their leaders in free
elections. The PRC is a dictatorship.
How about Cuba?

Eisboch

In relation to what? Cuba is a dictatorship.

Sorry. Cuba in terms of buying their products or produce.

Eisboch



I could be wrong, but I don't believe we buy products from Cuba. Just
another example of idiotic U.S. foreign policy. China, OK. Cuba, not OK.

We celebrated Black Friday...
 

On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 20:55:53 -0500, Eisboch wrote:

" JimH" ask wrote in message
...


Obscene salaries are obscene.......period. It does not matter if they
go to janitors or CEO's.


Or athletes.

Eisboch

Never underestimate what Americans are willing to pay to be entertained.
The *top* athletes, actors, rock stars, authors, all command incredible
pay. Of the lot, I have the least problem with athletes. It's hard to
imagine a more competitive profession. Their short careers are built on
a lifetime of incredibly hard work. They are the best of the best, and,
after all, someone else is willing to sign their checks.

Hell, I don't even have a problem with CEOs' pay. I just think it would
be nice if their pay was tied to performance, as an athlete's pay is.
Think of the $210 million Nardelli was paid to be fired.

We celebrated Black Friday...
 

We celebrated Black Friday...
 

HK wrote:
wrote:
On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 20:55:53 -0500, Eisboch wrote:

" JimH" ask wrote in message
...

Obscene salaries are obscene.......period. It does not matter if they
go to janitors or CEO's.


Or athletes.

Eisboch

Never underestimate what Americans are willing to pay to be
entertained. The *top* athletes, actors, rock stars, authors, all
command incredible pay. Of the lot, I have the least problem with
athletes. It's hard to imagine a more competitive profession. Their
short careers are built on a lifetime of incredibly hard work. They
are the best of the best, and, after all, someone else is willing to
sign their checks.
Hell, I don't even have a problem with CEOs' pay. I just think it
would be nice if their pay was tied to performance, as an athlete's
pay is. Think of the $210 million Nardelli was paid to be fired.


CEO pay and bonus should never be more than a reasonable multiple of the
average worker's salary at the company or corporation. Reasonable is NOT
500 times.

Why? What does the average worker contribute to the bottom line of the
business?

We celebrated Black Friday...
 

BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
wrote:
On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 20:55:53 -0500, Eisboch wrote:

" JimH" ask wrote in message
...

Obscene salaries are obscene.......period. It does not matter if they
go to janitors or CEO's.


Or athletes.

Eisboch

Never underestimate what Americans are willing to pay to be
entertained. The *top* athletes, actors, rock stars, authors, all
command incredible pay. Of the lot, I have the least problem with
athletes. It's hard to imagine a more competitive profession. Their
short careers are built on a lifetime of incredibly hard work. They
are the best of the best, and, after all, someone else is willing to
sign their checks. Hell, I don't even have a problem with CEOs' pay.
I just think it would be nice if their pay was tied to performance,
as an athlete's pay is. Think of the $210 million Nardelli was paid
to be fired.


CEO pay and bonus should never be more than a reasonable multiple of
the average worker's salary at the company or corporation. Reasonable
is NOT 500 times.

Why? What does the average worker contribute to the bottom line of the
business?



And therein lies the illness that is killing this country.

We celebrated Black Friday...
 

HK wrote:
BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
wrote:
On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 20:55:53 -0500, Eisboch wrote:

" JimH" ask wrote in message
...

Obscene salaries are obscene.......period. It does not matter if
they
go to janitors or CEO's.


Or athletes.

Eisboch

Never underestimate what Americans are willing to pay to be
entertained. The *top* athletes, actors, rock stars, authors, all
command incredible pay. Of the lot, I have the least problem with
athletes. It's hard to imagine a more competitive profession.
Their short careers are built on a lifetime of incredibly hard
work. They are the best of the best, and, after all, someone else
is willing to sign their checks. Hell, I don't even have a problem
with CEOs' pay. I just think it would be nice if their pay was tied
to performance, as an athlete's pay is. Think of the $210 million
Nardelli was paid to be fired.


CEO pay and bonus should never be more than a reasonable multiple of
the average worker's salary at the company or corporation. Reasonable
is NOT 500 times.

Why? What does the average worker contribute to the bottom line of the
business?



And therein lies the illness that is killing this country.

What is killing this country is people thinking that because they ask
"do you want fries with that" entitles them to pay equivalent to a CEO.

We celebrated Black Friday...
 

On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 22:37:06 -0500, HK wrote:


CEO pay and bonus should never be more than a reasonable multiple of the
average worker's salary at the company or corporation. Reasonable is NOT
500 times.

Philosophically, I tend to agree, but it is supply and demand run amok.
A HR guy once told me, his job wasn't to hire the right guy, it was to
make sure he didn't hire the wrong guy. Meaning, he would always make
the low risk choice. I tend to think the supply of CEO capable people
far outpaces the demand, but if you want to make the low risk choice, you
have to pay big bucks for the handful of candidates with a proven track
record.

If you want to cut costs, CEO pay is a good place to start. CEO pay has
been exploding.

http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/we...shots_20060621

We celebrated Black Friday...
 

"HK" wrote in message
...


Eisboch wrote:

Sorry. Cuba in terms of buying their products or produce.

Eisboch

I could be wrong, but I don't believe we buy products from Cuba. Just
another example of idiotic U.S. foreign policy. China, OK. Cuba, not OK.

Exactly. But do *you* believe the trade embargo with Cuba should be dropped
and Cuban products/produce be made available to the US market?

Eisboch

We celebrated Black Friday...
 

wrote in message
...

On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 20:55:53 -0500, Eisboch wrote:

" JimH" ask wrote in message
...


Obscene salaries are obscene.......period. It does not matter if they
go to janitors or CEO's.


Or athletes.

Eisboch

Never underestimate what Americans are willing to pay to be entertained.
The *top* athletes, actors, rock stars, authors, all command incredible
pay. Of the lot, I have the least problem with athletes. It's hard to
imagine a more competitive profession. Their short careers are built on
a lifetime of incredibly hard work. They are the best of the best, and,
after all, someone else is willing to sign their checks.


I suppose. But someone else is signing their checks with your money.

http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/bos/tic...ng_pricing.jsp

Eisboch

We celebrated Black Friday...
 

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 22:37:06 -0500, HK wrote:


CEO pay and bonus should never be more than a reasonable multiple of the
average worker's salary at the company or corporation. Reasonable is NOT
500 times.

Philosophically, I tend to agree, but it is supply and demand run amok.
A HR guy once told me, his job wasn't to hire the right guy, it was to
make sure he didn't hire the wrong guy. Meaning, he would always make
the low risk choice. I tend to think the supply of CEO capable people
far outpaces the demand, but if you want to make the low risk choice, you
have to pay big bucks for the handful of candidates with a proven track
record.

If you want to cut costs, CEO pay is a good place to start. CEO pay has
been exploding.

http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/we...shots_20060621


CEO's aren't hired by HR departments. They are usually recruited and hired
by the company's Board of Directors.
The Board of Directors are responsible to the shareholders. The
shareholders demand performance, growth and increased stock value. A
candidate for CEO must have qualifications and potential benefit to the
company (in terms of raising stock value or dividends) that are consistant
with the will of the shareholders. For that, you pay ... in salary, perks
and options.

Eisboch

We celebrated Black Friday...
 

On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 03:59:50 -0500, Eisboch wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 22:37:06 -0500, HK wrote:


CEO pay and bonus should never be more than a reasonable multiple of
the average worker's salary at the company or corporation. Reasonable
is NOT 500 times.

Philosophically, I tend to agree, but it is supply and demand run amok.
A HR guy once told me, his job wasn't to hire the right guy, it was to
make sure he didn't hire the wrong guy. Meaning, he would always make
the low risk choice. I tend to think the supply of CEO capable people
far outpaces the demand, but if you want to make the low risk choice,
you have to pay big bucks for the handful of candidates with a proven
track record.

If you want to cut costs, CEO pay is a good place to start. CEO pay
has been exploding.

http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/we...shots_20060621


CEO's aren't hired by HR departments.

Of course they're not, but the same constraints hold true. The HR guy
hired the low risk candidate because he didn't want his boss coming at
him for hiring, in hindsight, the wrong guy. The Board uses the same
conservative thinking. That's one of the reasons many CEOs are
retreads.

They are usually recruited and
hired by the company's Board of Directors.
The Board of Directors are responsible to the shareholders. The
shareholders demand performance, growth and increased stock value. A
candidate for CEO must have qualifications and potential benefit to the
company (in terms of raising stock value or dividends) that are
consistant with the will of the shareholders. For that, you pay ... in
salary, perks and options.

Eisboch

Yeah, but if you want to look at performance, there really isn't much
correlation between high compensation and high performance. For a
multimillion dollar CEO, they aren't driven by the money, it's the ego or
sense of accomplishment. An example, Bob Nardelli took Home Depot's $210
million, and is now running Chrysler for $1 per year (plus some potential
bonuses). I'll say again, cost cutting could start at the CEO level, and
without much of a performance hit.