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We celebrated Black Friday...

On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 22:47:21 -0500, HK wrote:

BAR wrote:
HK wrote:

CEO pay and bonus should never be more than a reasonable multiple of
the average worker's salary at the company or corporation. Reasonable
is NOT 500 times.

Why? What does the average worker contribute to the bottom line of the
business?

And therein lies the illness that is killing this country.

Exactly right. No way anybody I know would want to work for BAR,
average or not.
Here's something interesting I heard yesterday.
My son works at a shop doing mostly heavy truck suspensions.
The owner is a women who has 3 shops in the Chicago area.
She carries on with her deceased husband's method of operation.
Pay the workers more than the competition, provide health care, decent
vacations, a 401k, and bonuses when the profits are good.
Expect excellent quality work from employees. The crew itself
takes care of that, since there are always a couple long-timers
who really know their stuff, and new employees are on probation.
The managers do suspension work too.
And of course set prices to make a decent profit from fixing the
suspensions of fire trucks, ambulances, garbage trucks, etc.
The other day one of the "newer" workers was at a sister shop picking
up parts. Let's call him RAB. He bad-mouthed his fellow workers,
saying they were goofing off, on the computer playing video games, he
was doing all the work, etc, etc.
Some of this was in a sense true, because there are times when it's
dead at the shop, and boys will be boys. I've had a couple feast or
famine jobs like that myself.
Anyway, it just so happened that the owner's son was at the shop,
and heard everything. RAB didn't know him.
The son reported it to his mom. She got on the phone to the lead
manager at the shop and told him what she had heard, then said
something else, which surprised me, because...well, it surprised me.
She said, "What the hell kind of loyalty do you have over there?
RAB isn't a team player. You have my permission to fire him."
I think I could really get along with this lady.
BTW, he wasn't fired, but given a chance to keep his mouth shut.
My son defended him to the boss, and all his co-workers know he just
naturally has a big mouth and likes to yak about anything without
thinking first. Doesn't keep him from fixing suspensions.

--Vic

We celebrated Black Friday...

On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 03:59:50 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 22:37:06 -0500, HK wrote:

CEO pay and bonus should never be more than a reasonable multiple of the
average worker's salary at the company or corporation. Reasonable is NOT
500 times.

Philosophically, I tend to agree, but it is supply and demand run amok.
A HR guy once told me, his job wasn't to hire the right guy, it was to
make sure he didn't hire the wrong guy. Meaning, he would always make
the low risk choice. I tend to think the supply of CEO capable people
far outpaces the demand, but if you want to make the low risk choice, you
have to pay big bucks for the handful of candidates with a proven track
record.

If you want to cut costs, CEO pay is a good place to start. CEO pay has
been exploding.

http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/we...shots_20060621

CEO's aren't hired by HR departments. They are usually recruited and hired
by the company's Board of Directors.
The Board of Directors are responsible to the shareholders. The
shareholders demand performance, growth and increased stock value. A
candidate for CEO must have qualifications and potential benefit to the
company (in terms of raising stock value or dividends) that are consistant
with the will of the shareholders. For that, you pay ... in salary, perks
and options.

Read this. You may reconsider that bald statement.
http://www.newyorker.com/talk/financ...alk_surowiecki.

These two are examples of how the SEC protects directors from
shareholders:
http://www.pay-without-performance.c...B_May.2005.pdf
http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/bus...older_pow.html

I have personal opinions on this drawn from experience, but those are
like assholes, and the links might not smell so bad.

--Vic

We celebrated Black Friday...

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...

I have personal opinions on this drawn from experience, but those are
like assholes, and the links might not smell so bad.

--Vic

Read your links. I may not be being clear. I am not trying to justify the
compensation of a hired CEO or actions of a Board. What I am trying to
point out is that some of the influence for high compensation packages,
shifting manufacturing offshore and ever increasing premiums for HMO type
insurance plans is, to a degree, rooted in the expectations of shareholders
and ... employees.

Eisboch

We celebrated Black Friday...

On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 03:43:58 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
...

Eisboch wrote:

Sorry. Cuba in terms of buying their products or produce.

Eisboch

I could be wrong, but I don't believe we buy products from Cuba. Just
another example of idiotic U.S. foreign policy. China, OK. Cuba, not OK.

Exactly. But do *you* believe the trade embargo with Cuba should be dropped
and Cuban products/produce be made available to the US market?

I believe that cigars should be allowed out.

I don't know if there is anything else that Cuba "produces" that I
would be interested in. :)

We celebrated Black Friday...

Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...

Eisboch wrote:
Sorry. Cuba in terms of buying their products or produce.

Eisboch
I could be wrong, but I don't believe we buy products from Cuba. Just
another example of idiotic U.S. foreign policy. China, OK. Cuba, not OK.

Exactly. But do *you* believe the trade embargo with Cuba should be dropped
and Cuban products/produce be made available to the US market?

Eisboch

It should have happened decades ago, and the travel restrictions should
have been dropped, too. Keep in mind, I am not opposed to trade with
China because it is a Communist state, but because of the kind of
Communist state it has been and continues to be. Cuba has not been a
paragon of virtue in the area of human rights, but it has evolved into
something better than it was over the years. The PRC is still the PRC,
in terms of most of its people. I'm for "free" trade with any nation in
which the average working stiff is treated decently in terms of wages,
hours, working conditions, benefits, and in which products from this
country are treated similarly. That nation does not have to be a fan of
our foreign policy. If that were a requirement, of course, we'd have to
be buying American.

We celebrated Black Friday...

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 03:43:58 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
...

Eisboch wrote:
Sorry. Cuba in terms of buying their products or produce.

Eisboch
I could be wrong, but I don't believe we buy products from Cuba. Just
another example of idiotic U.S. foreign policy. China, OK. Cuba, not OK.
Exactly. But do *you* believe the trade embargo with Cuba should be dropped
and Cuban products/produce be made available to the US market?

I believe that cigars should be allowed out.

I don't know if there is anything else that Cuba "produces" that I
would be interested in. :)

I'm sure the people of Cuba would love to be exporting rum, cigars, and
other agricultural products to the United States, and also manufactured
goods if they had any modern factories in which they could earn a
living. These are highly educated, motivated people, you know. Had the
United States had a more reasonable foreign policy towards Cuba, the
Cuban people would have gotten rid of Castro years and years ago.

We celebrated Black Friday...

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 03:43:58 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
...

Eisboch wrote:

Sorry. Cuba in terms of buying their products or produce.

Eisboch

I could be wrong, but I don't believe we buy products from Cuba. Just
another example of idiotic U.S. foreign policy. China, OK. Cuba, not OK.

Exactly. But do *you* believe the trade embargo with Cuba should be
dropped
and Cuban products/produce be made available to the US market?

I believe that cigars should be allowed out.

I don't know if there is anything else that Cuba "produces" that I
would be interested in. :)

I've seen some hot lookin' women in travel shows from there!

We celebrated Black Friday...

On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 12:36:40 +0000, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

Really. When was the last time you went to a baseball game with a team
that had a huge payroll?

Do the Yankees count? Ticket prices are a small part of the bite.
Between the tolls, a couple of beers, and a hot dog, ticket prices aren't
really noticeable. In truth, though, it has been several years since I
have done *anything* in New York. I do try to get to one of the several
minor league teams than play locally. Far, far, less hassle, than the
Bronx, it makes for a relaxing day, not a stressful day. Similarly, my
football fix is usually at one of those football powerhouses, Lafayette
or Princeton.

I can understand the bitch about ticket prices, but I'm guessing the gas
it takes to get you to a Sox game, would be more that the price of
admission.