Inverter system charging ???
 

Someone told me it's possible to charge an inverter
system's batteries using a battery charger plugged
into the inverter that's being run by the batteries
you want to charge. Is there any truth to that, and
if so, how does it work?

Inverter system charging ???
 

That's like discovering perpetual motion...

It's not going to happen.

Some of the best inverters are only about 75% efficient, plus losing
efficiency though a battery charger. You'll actually be draining the
batteries ... at a quick rate.

dh@. wrote:
Someone told me it's possible to charge an inverter
system's batteries using a battery charger plugged
into the inverter that's being run by the batteries
you want to charge. Is there any truth to that, and
if so, how does it work?

Inverter system charging ???
 

dh@. wrote:
Someone told me it's possible to charge an inverter
system's batteries using a battery charger plugged
into the inverter that's being run by the batteries
you want to charge. Is there any truth to that, and
if so, how does it work?
It works very well. Send me a check for $500 and I'll send you the
instructions.

You won't be sorry you sent me the money! I promise.

Inverter system charging ???
 

dh@. wrote:

Someone told me it's possible to charge an inverter
system's batteries using a battery charger plugged
into the inverter that's being run by the batteries
you want to charge. Is there any truth to that, and
if so, how does it work?

It works very well, but how to do it is a secret. Don't listen to those
who say differently, they are ignorant of new scientific breakthroughs.

Send me five hundred dollars in cash and I'll send you the instructions.

You won't be sorry you sent me that money, I promise!

Inverter system charging ???
 

It works just as well as the perpetual motion machine in my basement.
JR



dh@. wrote:

Someone told me it's possible to charge an inverter
system's batteries using a battery charger plugged
into the inverter that's being run by the batteries
you want to charge. Is there any truth to that, and
if so, how does it work?

--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth

Inverter system charging ???
 

JR North wrote:

It works just as well as the perpetual motion machine in my basement.
JR



dh@. wrote:

Someone told me it's possible to charge an inverter
system's batteries using a battery charger plugged
into the inverter that's being run by the batteries
you want to charge. Is there any truth to that, and
if so, how does it work?


You have one of those too?

Inverter system charging ???
 

"JR North" wrote in message
.. .
It works just as well as the perpetual motion machine in my basement.
JR



dh@. wrote:

Someone told me it's possible to charge an inverter
system's batteries using a battery charger plugged
into the inverter that's being run by the batteries
you want to charge. Is there any truth to that, and
if so, how does it work?

--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth


You have one too??

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Inverter system charging ???
 

dh@. wrote in message ...
Someone told me it's possible to charge an inverter
system's batteries using a battery charger plugged
into the inverter that's being run by the batteries
you want to charge. Is there any truth to that, and
if so, how does it work?

If you have 2 half dead batteries it is possible to use them to juice up one
battery completely and leave the other dead.

Inverter system charging ???
 

On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 11:16:23 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote:

That's like discovering perpetual motion...

That's what I told the dude that mentioned it. But he insisted
it's a common practice, so I thought about how it possibly
"could" work...maybe. IF the electrons in the battery are
just being moved from one side to the other, which is the
impression I got of how a battery works when I read about it
in detail years ago, then it seemed possible that maybe the
method would just move them back around to the positive
side again if there was any truth to it. Whether it would work
or not my impression is still that a battery charger doesn't
really add electrons to the battery, but just shifts them back
around to the other side of some barrier...I forgot what it's
called over the years.

It's not going to happen.

Some of the best inverters are only about 75% efficient, plus losing
efficiency though a battery charger. You'll actually be draining the
batteries ... at a quick rate.

dh@. wrote:
Someone told me it's possible to charge an inverter
system's batteries using a battery charger plugged
into the inverter that's being run by the batteries
you want to charge. Is there any truth to that, and
if so, how does it work?

Inverter system charging ???
 

dh@. wrote:
Someone told me it's possible to charge an inverter
system's batteries using a battery charger plugged
into the inverter that's being run by the batteries
you want to charge. Is there any truth to that, and
if so, how does it work?

Of course it is true, go to here for more info:

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/phys101.htm

Inverter system charging ???
 

On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 15:26:14 -0500, Reginald Smithers III
wrote:

dh@. wrote:
Someone told me it's possible to charge an inverter
system's batteries using a battery charger plugged
into the inverter that's being run by the batteries
you want to charge. Is there any truth to that, and
if so, how does it work?

Of course it is true, go to here for more info:

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/phys101.htm

Now I understand why splitting oak with an 8 lb splitter is such hard work.

Thank you so much.
--
*****Have a Spectacular Day!*****

John H

Inverter system charging ???
 

"Jim" wrote in message
...
JR North wrote:

It works just as well as the perpetual motion machine in my basement.
JR



dh@. wrote:

Someone told me it's possible to charge an inverter
system's batteries using a battery charger plugged
into the inverter that's being run by the batteries
you want to charge. Is there any truth to that, and
if so, how does it work?


You have one of those too?

Shussssh!

Don't want to expose *all* our secrets ....

Eisboch

Inverter system charging ???
 

dh@. wrote in message ...
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 11:16:23 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote:


That's what I told the dude that mentioned it. But he insisted
it's a common practice, so I thought about how it possibly
"could" work...maybe. IF the electrons in the battery are
just being moved from one side to the other, which is the
impression I got of how a battery works when I read about it
in detail years ago, then it seemed possible that maybe the
method would just move them back around to the positive
side again if there was any truth to it. Whether it would work
or not my impression is still that a battery charger doesn't
really add electrons to the battery, but just shifts them back
around to the other side of some barrier...I forgot what it's
called over the years.



It's called BS.

Eisboch

Inverter system charging ???
 

Sorry man, but it ain't happening. Conservation of energy still applies to
us ordinary folks.

dh@. wrote in message ...
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 11:16:23 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote:

That's like discovering perpetual motion...

That's what I told the dude that mentioned it. But he insisted
it's a common practice, so I thought about how it possibly
"could" work...maybe. IF the electrons in the battery are
just being moved from one side to the other, which is the
impression I got of how a battery works when I read about it
in detail years ago, then it seemed possible that maybe the
method would just move them back around to the positive
side again if there was any truth to it. Whether it would work
or not my impression is still that a battery charger doesn't
really add electrons to the battery, but just shifts them back
around to the other side of some barrier...I forgot what it's
called over the years.

It's not going to happen.

Some of the best inverters are only about 75% efficient, plus losing
efficiency though a battery charger. You'll actually be draining the
batteries ... at a quick rate.

dh@. wrote:
Someone told me it's possible to charge an inverter
system's batteries using a battery charger plugged
into the inverter that's being run by the batteries
you want to charge. Is there any truth to that, and
if so, how does it work?

Inverter system charging ???
 

dh@. wrote:
Someone told me it's possible to charge an inverter
system's batteries using a battery charger plugged
into the inverter that's being run by the batteries
you want to charge. Is there any truth to that, and
if so, how does it work?

Very well. Consumer's energy will by your excess power. How do you think
all of us RVers got retired so young?

Lon

Inverter system charging ???
 

dh@. wrote in message
...
Someone told me it's possible to charge an inverter
system's batteries using a battery charger plugged
into the inverter that's being run by the batteries
you want to charge. Is there any truth to that, and
if so, how does it work?

Try it and see. AND make sure you have a spare battery fully charged.

Inverter system charging ???
 

Lon VanOstran wrote:
dh@. wrote:
Someone told me it's possible to charge an inverter
system's batteries using a battery charger plugged
into the inverter that's being run by the batteries
you want to charge. Is there any truth to that, and
if so, how does it work?

Very well. Consumer's energy will by your excess power. How do you think
all of us RVers got retired so young?

Lon

Couldn't you just sell the energy back to the power company?

Inverter system charging ???
 

Steve wrote:
dh@. wrote in message ...
Someone told me it's possible to charge an inverter
system's batteries using a battery charger plugged
into the inverter that's being run by the batteries
you want to charge. Is there any truth to that, and
if so, how does it work?

If you have 2 half dead batteries it is possible to use them to juice up one
battery completely and leave the other dead.

I dont' even see how you could do that. with jumper cables? no.

with a power inverter and battery charger? no, (not really)

your "half dead" battery won't produce enough power to keep the
inverter AND battery charger up (ona 12v. system) 14v DC [+/-], at
least for any real length of time to charge the other "half dead"
battery. especially fully charged.

Inverter system charging ???
 

One problem, inverters and battery chargers get warm. That's energy
loss. Energy loss is inefficiency.
It's fun to imagine, though.

dh@. wrote:
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 11:16:23 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote:

That's like discovering perpetual motion...

That's what I told the dude that mentioned it. But he insisted
it's a common practice, so I thought about how it possibly
"could" work...maybe. IF the electrons in the battery are
just being moved from one side to the other, which is the
impression I got of how a battery works when I read about it
in detail years ago, then it seemed possible that maybe the
method would just move them back around to the positive
side again if there was any truth to it. Whether it would work
or not my impression is still that a battery charger doesn't
really add electrons to the battery, but just shifts them back
around to the other side of some barrier...I forgot what it's
called over the years.

It's not going to happen.

Some of the best inverters are only about 75% efficient, plus losing
efficiency though a battery charger. You'll actually be draining the
batteries ... at a quick rate.

dh@. wrote:
Someone told me it's possible to charge an inverter
system's batteries using a battery charger plugged
into the inverter that's being run by the batteries
you want to charge. Is there any truth to that, and
if so, how does it work?

Inverter system charging ???
 

"Tim" wrote in message
...


Steve wrote:
dh@. wrote in message
...
Someone told me it's possible to charge an inverter
system's batteries using a battery charger plugged
into the inverter that's being run by the batteries
you want to charge. Is there any truth to that, and
if so, how does it work?

If you have 2 half dead batteries it is possible to use them to juice up
one
battery completely and leave the other dead.

I dont' even see how you could do that. with jumper cables? no.

with a power inverter and battery charger? no, (not really)

your "half dead" battery won't produce enough power to keep the
inverter AND battery charger up (ona 12v. system) 14v DC [+/-], at
least for any real length of time to charge the other "half dead"
battery. especially fully charged.


Tim:

I can do it with two capacitors and a set of jumper cables. It is called a
"charge pump" which is a common type of electronic circuit for transferring
charge from a low potential to a high potential. The circuitry is explained
he

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge_pump

The power inverter and charger will also work just fine. From this link:

http://www.batterystuff.com/tutorial_battery.html

You can see a discharged battery produces nearly 12 volts (says so in the
above link). The discharged battery just can supply high current at 12
volts, which is fine you just have to set the charger at trickle charge.

An inverter can operate on DC voltage inputs of of 10-15 as seen he

http://www.novaelectric.com/dc_ac_in...vacg12600w.php

So it will definitely work with a fully discharged 12v lead acid battery.


Steve

Inverter system charging ???
 

On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 14:08:45 -0500, dh@. wrote:

Someone told me it's possible to charge an inverter
system's batteries using a battery charger plugged
into the inverter that's being run by the batteries
you want to charge. Is there any truth to that, and
if so, how does it work?

It doesn't.

Perpetual motion.

In short - bull feathers as my maternal Grandfather used to say in
polite company.

Inverter system charging ???
 

dh@. wrote:
Someone told me it's possible to charge an inverter
system's batteries using a battery charger plugged
into the inverter that's being run by the batteries
you want to charge. Is there any truth to that, and
if so, how does it work?

In the old days they did it all the time, course you had to have a
steady breeze turning the windmill.

--
BILL P.
&
DOG

Inverter system charging ???
 

"Steve" wrote in message
...

"Tim" wrote in message
...


Steve wrote:
dh@. wrote in message
...
Someone told me it's possible to charge an inverter
system's batteries using a battery charger plugged
into the inverter that's being run by the batteries
you want to charge. Is there any truth to that, and
if so, how does it work?

If you have 2 half dead batteries it is possible to use them to juice up
one
battery completely and leave the other dead.

I dont' even see how you could do that. with jumper cables? no.

with a power inverter and battery charger? no, (not really)

your "half dead" battery won't produce enough power to keep the
inverter AND battery charger up (ona 12v. system) 14v DC [+/-], at
least for any real length of time to charge the other "half dead"
battery. especially fully charged.


Tim:

I can do it with two capacitors and a set of jumper cables. It is called a
"charge pump" which is a common type of electronic circuit for
transferring charge from a low potential to a high potential. The
circuitry is explained he

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge_pump

The power inverter and charger will also work just fine. From this link:

http://www.batterystuff.com/tutorial_battery.html

You can see a discharged battery produces nearly 12 volts (says so in the
above link). The discharged battery just can supply high current at 12
volts, which is fine you just have to set the charger at trickle charge.

An inverter can operate on DC voltage inputs of of 10-15 as seen he

http://www.novaelectric.com/dc_ac_in...vacg12600w.php

So it will definitely work with a fully discharged 12v lead acid battery.


Steve



Heh.

Eisboch

Inverter system charging ???
 

On Nov 21, 2:08 pm, dh@. wrote:
Someone told me it's possible to charge an inverter
system's batteries using a battery charger plugged
into the inverter that's being run by the batteries
you want to charge. Is there any truth to that, and
if so, how does it work?

it will discharge faster than it is charging

Inverter system charging ???
 

wrote in message
...
On Nov 21, 2:08 pm, dh@. wrote:
Someone told me it's possible to charge an inverter
system's batteries using a battery charger plugged
into the inverter that's being run by the batteries
you want to charge. Is there any truth to that, and
if so, how does it work?

it will discharge faster than it is charging


Now there's an honest answer!

Eisboch

Inverter system charging ???
 

dh@. wrote in :

Someone told me it's possible to charge an inverter
system's batteries using a battery charger plugged
into the inverter that's being run by the batteries
you want to charge. Is there any truth to that, and
if so, how does it work?



It recharges the batteries much faster than the inverter uses the power up.
If you leave it running, you can even run an electric trolling motor from
the surplus power and eliminate the diesel or gas engine that gives so much
trouble.

This works even better if you have a small thermonuclear charger like:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiois...tric_generator
Pay no attention to what it says about radiation. Russians have been
running their navaids off them for years!

Larry
--
Xterm IS the ultimate video game...(c;

Inverter system charging ???
 

In article ,
JR North wrote:
It works just as well as the perpetual motion machine in my basement.
JR

You keep a woman's mouth in your basement?????

Inverter system charging ???
 

"Robert Bonomi" wrote in message
...
In article ,
JR North wrote:
It works just as well as the perpetual motion machine in my basement.
JR

You keep a woman's mouth in your basement?????





Hail the discovered of the only true perpetual motion machine. Welcome.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Inverter system charging ??? Perpetual motion machine
 

Eisboch wrote:
"Jim" wrote in message
...

JR North wrote:


It works just as well as the perpetual motion machine in my basement.
JR



dh@. wrote:


Someone told me it's possible to charge an inverter
system's batteries using a battery charger plugged
into the inverter that's being run by the batteries
you want to charge. Is there any truth to that, and
if so, how does it work?


You have one of those too?


Shussssh!

Don't want to expose *all* our secrets ....

Eisboch


Here's mine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us7YB7eiOeQ

Inverter system charging ??? Perpetual motion machine
 

"Jim" wrote in message
...

Eisboch wrote:
"Jim" wrote in message

It works just as well as the perpetual motion machine in my basement.
JR

You have one of those too?


Shussssh!

Don't want to expose *all* our secrets ....

Eisboch
Here's mine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us7YB7eiOeQ

Please count to three, snap your fingers and wake me up.

Eisboch

Inverter system charging ???
 

On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 13:48:30 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:



Steve wrote:
dh@. wrote in message ...
Someone told me it's possible to charge an inverter
system's batteries using a battery charger plugged
into the inverter that's being run by the batteries
you want to charge. Is there any truth to that, and
if so, how does it work?

If you have 2 half dead batteries it is possible to use them to juice up one
battery completely and leave the other dead.

I dont' even see how you could do that. with jumper cables? no.

with a power inverter and battery charger? no, (not really)

your "half dead" battery won't produce enough power to keep the
inverter AND battery charger up (ona 12v. system) 14v DC [+/-], at
least for any real length of time to charge the other "half dead"
battery. especially fully charged.


Hmmm...these days, there are boost regulators (step up) and buck
regulators (step down) and even buck/boost regulators, that can
produce a set voltage from a source that goes from higher to lower
than the target voltage.
And this leads to high efficiencies too.
I imagine an inverter system could have similar qualities.

Brian Whatcott Altus OK

Inverter system charging ???
 

Brian Whatcott wrote:
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 13:48:30 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:


Steve wrote:
dh@. wrote in message ...
Someone told me it's possible to charge an inverter
system's batteries using a battery charger plugged
into the inverter that's being run by the batteries
you want to charge. Is there any truth to that, and
if so, how does it work?
If you have 2 half dead batteries it is possible to use them to juice up one
battery completely and leave the other dead.
I dont' even see how you could do that. with jumper cables? no.

with a power inverter and battery charger? no, (not really)

your "half dead" battery won't produce enough power to keep the
inverter AND battery charger up (ona 12v. system) 14v DC [+/-], at
least for any real length of time to charge the other "half dead"
battery. especially fully charged.


Hmmm...these days, there are boost regulators (step up) and buck
regulators (step down) and even buck/boost regulators, that can
produce a set voltage from a source that goes from higher to lower
than the target voltage.
And this leads to high efficiencies too.
I imagine an inverter system could have similar qualities.

Brian Whatcott Altus OK
Brian, I was stationed at Altus AFB back in the 50s and 60s. Helped Hoyt
Shaded mayor build a mobile home park out close to the base. Spent about
eight years there.

--
BILL P.
&
DOG

Inverter system charging ???
 

"Brian Whatcott" wrote in message
...


Hmmm...these days, there are boost regulators (step up) and buck
regulators (step down) and even buck/boost regulators, that can
produce a set voltage from a source that goes from higher to lower
than the target voltage.
And this leads to high efficiencies too.
I imagine an inverter system could have similar qualities.

Brian Whatcott Altus OK

I've never heard of a buck, boost, or buck/boost regulator. There are
bucking, boosting and buck/boost transformers, but if the voltage is
boosted, it is at the expense of a corresponding same percentage loss of
available current, plus transformer loss.

Eisboch

Inverter system charging ???
 

dh@. wrote in message ...
Someone told me it's possible to charge an inverter
system's batteries using a battery charger plugged
into the inverter that's being run by the batteries
you want to charge. Is there any truth to that, and
if so, how does it work?

Yes you will find the plans for that in your local public library in the
perpetual motion machine section.

Inverter system charging ???
 

On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 00:15:42 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Brian Whatcott" wrote in message
.. .


Hmmm...these days, there are boost regulators (step up) and buck
regulators (step down) and even buck/boost regulators, that can
produce a set voltage from a source that goes from higher to lower
than the target voltage.
And this leads to high efficiencies too.
I imagine an inverter system could have similar qualities.

Brian Whatcott Altus OK

I've never heard of a buck, boost, or buck/boost regulator. There are
bucking, boosting and buck/boost transformers, but if the voltage is
boosted, it is at the expense of a corresponding same percentage loss of
available current, plus transformer loss.

Beat me to it.

Inverter system charging ???
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

I've never heard of a buck, boost, or buck/boost regulator.

Now you have:

http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LM2698.html




There are
bucking, boosting and buck/boost transformers,

No transformer in the above link.

but if the voltage is
boosted, it is at the expense of a corresponding same percentage loss of
available current, plus transformer loss.

Only applies to transformers. Power (voltage and current over a given time
period) is conserved.



Eisboch

Inverter system charging ???
 

"Steve" wrote in message
...

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

I've never heard of a buck, boost, or buck/boost regulator.

Now you have:

http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LM2698.html




There are
bucking, boosting and buck/boost transformers,

No transformer in the above link.

but if the voltage is
boosted, it is at the expense of a corresponding same percentage loss of
available current, plus transformer loss.

Only applies to transformers. Power (voltage and current over a given time
period) is conserved.



Eisboch



Interesting. If the power source is a 12 volt DC battery, what does this
regulator boost and how does it do it?

Eisboch

Inverter system charging ???
 

On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 20:50:03 -0600, williamboyd
wrote:


Brian, I was stationed at Altus AFB back in the 50s and 60s. Helped Hoyt
Shaded mayor build a mobile home park out close to the base. Spent about
eight years there.

There is a little park on one side of the city lake (formerly a city
water reservoir) named for Hoyt. Unusual name. Kids can pull 12 inch
fish out of that lake, if they can get past the geese and ducks -
though the recent bird flu issue has led the city to start scaring off
the birds there. There are surprizingly few military folks on base -
mostly aircrew students, served by a largely civilian staff.

Brian Whatcott Altus OK

Inverter system charging ???
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Steve" wrote in message
...


I've never heard of a buck, boost, or buck/boost regulator.

Now you have:

http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LM2698.html




There are
bucking, boosting and buck/boost transformers,

No transformer in the above link.

but if the voltage is
boosted, it is at the expense of a corresponding same percentage loss of
available current, plus transformer loss.

Only applies to transformers. Power (voltage and current over a given
time period) is conserved.



Eisboch



Interesting. If the power source is a 12 volt DC battery, what does this
regulator boost and how does it do it?

Eisboch


My apologies. I didn't notice the link you provided.
It appears to be an inverter circuit and indeed can provide a DC boost.
However, it's not a perpetual power system and will still use more power
from a battery that it is trying to charge.

Eisboch

Inverter system charging ???
 

On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 00:15:42 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Brian Whatcott" wrote in message
.. .


Hmmm...these days, there are boost regulators (step up) and buck
regulators (step down) and even buck/boost regulators, that can
produce a set voltage from a source that goes from higher to lower
than the target voltage.
And this leads to high efficiencies too.
I imagine an inverter system could have similar qualities.

Brian Whatcott Altus OK

I've never heard of a buck, boost, or buck/boost regulator. There are
bucking, boosting and buck/boost transformers, but if the voltage is
boosted, it is at the expense of a corresponding same percentage loss of
available current, plus transformer loss.

Eisboch


Yep, there are many many topics that *I've* never heard of either!
As usual, Google is your friend - with keywords: buck/boost
regulator.
Here's an old article that gives the flavor....
http://www.edn.com/article/CA318719.html

And, it goes without saying, you don't get more power out than the
power you put in, but you don't throw away power as heat so much
as older methods, so the volt times amp product of the output can be
85% or 90% of the volt amps input over a fair voltage input range.

Brian Whatcott Altus OK

Brian Whatcott Altus OK