On Nov 23, 3:19 pm, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 07:50:00 -0500, HK wrote:
I know it won't happen in my lifetime, but there will be
a serious revolution in the future, not to impose communism, but to
round up and slaughter all the multi-national "corporationists," and
those who believe in returning to the middle ages of serfdom.

Since they will control the governments and virtually all of the
military power I guess that will make us "insurgents". "Rounding them
up" won't be all that easy, I guess we would have to resort to
terrorism.
"We looked at the enemy and they are us" - Pogo

They may be among us, but they are not us. Don't let the constant lies
and distortions get to you, we are still Americans and we are not the
problem.

wrote:
On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 07:50:00 -0500, HK wrote:

I know it won't happen in my lifetime, but there will be
a serious revolution in the future, not to impose communism, but to
round up and slaughter all the multi-national "corporationists," and
those who believe in returning to the middle ages of serfdom.

Since they will control the governments and virtually all of the
military power I guess that will make us "insurgents". "Rounding them
up" won't be all that easy, I guess we would have to resort to
terrorism.
"We looked at the enemy and they are us" - Pogo


Precisely.

wrote:
On Nov 23, 3:19 pm, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 07:50:00 -0500, HK wrote:
I know it won't happen in my lifetime, but there will be
a serious revolution in the future, not to impose communism, but to
round up and slaughter all the multi-national "corporationists," and
those who believe in returning to the middle ages of serfdom.
Since they will control the governments and virtually all of the
military power I guess that will make us "insurgents". "Rounding them
up" won't be all that easy, I guess we would have to resort to
terrorism.
"We looked at the enemy and they are us" - Pogo

They may be among us, but they are not us. Don't let the constant lies
and distortions get to you, we are still Americans and we are not the
problem.


We haven't been Americans since 1981 when the dark side took over.

On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 12:45:05 -0000, wrote:

On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 11:49:27 +0000, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


I suppose if we make the penalties against the western economies strong
enough (and crash them) the resulting nuclear war will reverse the
warming trend and cut way back on that pesky population growth.

That is really the issue - it's another attempt to redistribute income
only on an internationlist scale.

If that really is the issue, you are looking to blame the wrong people.
It isn't the environmentalists, it's the capitalists. If we are buying
all the out-sourced, pollution intensive products of the eastern
economies, who's pollution is it really? The Chinese, or ours? Part of
the "attractiveness" of out-sourcing is, in addition to the dollar a day
wages, companies don't have to put up with our pesky pollution laws.

I would say that if Koyoto was truly fair rather than exclusionary (as
in developing countries have to adhere to the same standard as the
developed countries), then you would have a level playing field.

It's not the fault of those who run business to try and drive
productivity up and costs down - that's the way you run a business.
However, if you enforce an unfair standard on your own manufacturing
base by requiring major retrofits, unfair regulation and state/federal
interference in how you run your business (I'm speaking of
environmental interference - although...) then you force the same
business to go where they can get the productivity and costs to stay
in business. That's the way it works.

With respect to outsourcing, it's the same, only the twist there is
education. If you have a highly trained and efficient work force just
sitting offshore waiting for something to do, you take advantage of
it.

To get round to the point once again, it's all about productivity and
costs - if you can do the same job cheaper somewhere else, that's the
imperative for a business. It's good for the company, it's good for
the shareholders. And in the end, that's income redistribution.

On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 07:49:47 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 11:49:27 +0000, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

That is really the issue - it's another attempt to redistribute income
only on an internationlist scale.

If that really is the issue, you are looking to blame the wrong people.
It isn't the environmentalists, it's the capitalists. If we are buying
all the out-sourced, pollution intensive products of the eastern
economies, who's pollution is it really? The Chinese, or ours? Part of
the "attractiveness" of out-sourcing is, in addition to the dollar a day
wages, companies don't have to put up with our pesky pollution laws.

If you really get down to it, it's not the environmentalists nor the
capitalists. It's the consumer ... looking for the lowest prices for
products and the highest return on their stock market investments.

That's part of it - but not the complete picture.

I think I told you this once, but I've been in the process of bidding
out some lures that I designed and built prototypes of. There are
size variations, but they have one single theme in five flavors. I
have orders in hand for them from local shops for the hand made ones I
sell now and there's been interest in distributing them overseas.

As I developed the business plan, I made a decision that I would try
like heck to have these made in the US if at all possible. I set a
price point that was reasonable for the type and style of lures that
they are based on current prices I've seen in Wal-Mart, Bass Pro,
Cabela's, etc. It seemed that if I could have these made at a price
that was equal to, or slightly lower than, similar models, they would
make an impression and sell - maybe even attract a buyout from a big
time manfuacturer (which I have done before).

I could not find, in the US, Mexico or Canada, a manufacturer who
could do the entire job - from wire forming, injection molding and
packaging. I could find piece work makers - ok, change in plans.

As I developed more information it became apparent that I would end up
making nothing if I stuck to NA manufacturing. My good friend who
runs a machine shop made some inquires for me on purchasing injection
machines, but the ROI was too large for a small operation - it was a
losing proposition based on projections for at least 7 years.

To make a long story short, I spent close to a year looking - I have a
pretty unique concept so it it's not like I was being closed out by
somebody else - there is a niche for this type of lure. Anyway I
figured it, I was not going to be able to make anything in sufficient
quantity at a cost point that made it break even, not to mentino
actually make a profit. The best cost I could develop was $3.17 per
lure which was less than .15¢ profit not including shipping.

Finally, my good friend down in Australia put me in touch with a
manufacturing rep for a Chinese manufacturer. I talked with the guy,
we chatted, I gave him a rough idea of what I was trying to do and he
sent me sample of lures made in China along with a spec sheet on price
points and purchasing.

Including shipping to New Jersey, UPS to my house it was just under
..63¢ a lure.

This Chinese manufacturer isn't a slave shop - they pay their people
well compared to the living standard in China - the factory was new
and located in a area of China where afflulence is becoming the norm.
They guarenteed the product safe. The rep said he would put up a
performance bond on behalf of the manufacturer to quarentee the price.
Trust me - I asked a lot of questions over five or six days about a
half hour per phone call.

I went to AmerInd tribes, handicapped manufacturing organizations,
small manufacturers looking for business - local guys who are
machinists and injection molders - couldn't do it for under $3.17.

Now, you tell me what's wrong that I can't do something that would
benefit me, give work to people who might have trouble finding work
benefitting them and sell a decent idea to market without having to go
overseas to do it.

HK wrote:
wrote:
On Nov 23, 3:19 pm, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 07:50:00 -0500, HK wrote:
I know it won't happen in my lifetime, but there will be
a serious revolution in the future, not to impose communism, but to
round up and slaughter all the multi-national "corporationists," and
those who believe in returning to the middle ages of serfdom.
Since they will control the governments and virtually all of the
military power I guess that will make us "insurgents". "Rounding them
up" won't be all that easy, I guess we would have to resort to
terrorism. "We looked at the enemy and they are us" - Pogo

They may be among us, but they are not us. Don't let the constant lies
and distortions get to you, we are still Americans and we are not the
problem.


We haven't been Americans since 1981 when the dark side took over.

In 1981 the Americans righted a wrong.

21% for a mortgage?

wrote:
On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 13:50:43 -0000, wrote:

Well, you can't blame them for looking for a sweetheart deal. ;-( When
Nixon first went to China, I thought it was a good idea. I figured, as
many did, mutual trade would limit any Chinese threat. Now, I'm thinking
they may be more of a threat.

China has a culture older than the Egyptians. They understand slow and
steady. I imagine they figured out, about the time they were throwing
away their little red books, that they couldn't beat us so they would
just collect enough dollars to buy us out. The are well on the way.
They have enough to crash our economy right now. In 10 years when we
are totally upside down, they could call the debt and forclose.

China is a modern society, originating within the last 2000 years. The
Egyptians were building pyramids 5,000 years ago.

HK wrote:




Jim...if I drive to Ohio to your place, would you let me start a fire up
under three or four gallons of oil so I can cook my turkey? If I tried
that here, my wife would shoot me.

h.

That's sad. Did she make you go shopping on the 23rd, too?

-dk

Don White wrote:


You must have poor management where you work.
I was unionized my entire 32 year working career and the handful of obvious
slackers were declared redundant when cut back after cutback partially
eliminated a number of departments. On the Admin side, we worked very
closely with managers and trust me.. it could be hard to goof off more than
a few minutes at a time.



What has you son learned from your experience, Don?

-dk

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...

some snipped for brevity


Finally, my good friend down in Australia put me in touch with a
manufacturing rep for a Chinese manufacturer. I talked with the guy,
we chatted, I gave him a rough idea of what I was trying to do and he
sent me sample of lures made in China along with a spec sheet on price
points and purchasing.

Including shipping to New Jersey, UPS to my house it was just under
.63¢ a lure.

This Chinese manufacturer isn't a slave shop - they pay their people
well compared to the living standard in China - the factory was new
and located in a area of China where afflulence is becoming the norm.
They guarenteed the product safe. The rep said he would put up a
performance bond on behalf of the manufacturer to quarentee the price.
Trust me - I asked a lot of questions over five or six days about a
half hour per phone call.

I went to AmerInd tribes, handicapped manufacturing organizations,
small manufacturers looking for business - local guys who are
machinists and injection molders - couldn't do it for under $3.17.

Now, you tell me what's wrong that I can't do something that would
benefit me, give work to people who might have trouble finding work
benefitting them and sell a decent idea to market without having to go
overseas to do it.


Nothing wrong.

Here's the way I see it. Most of the Chinese population was isolated from
the rest of the world and kept in the dark for years since the Communist
Government was established in 1949. The biggest danger to the government
was allowing the vast population of getting a "sniff" of personal economic
prosperity. Once the genie is out of the lamp and all that ....

Well, we are witnessing a radical change in China and there are some
benefits for us and the rest of the world. We also have to witness the
maturing of the swing ... and watch out for some shoddy products for a
while. Remember what "Made in Japan" meant back in the 50's?

One benefit is that China will need to cooperate and get along with the rest
of the world because they need our markets for Chinese produced products.
China will become more supportative of her former adversaries.

China will become more and more capitalistic and a partner to many in a
global economy. They can't go back now because too many of her people have
tasted the fruits of limited freedom and relative financial prosperity.
They may be underpaid and have poor working conditions when compared to
western standards, but to many Chinese it represents the first opportunity
at making financial progress in their lifetime.

It's much more difficult to take something away from someone than to have
never given it to him/her in the first place.

Eisboch