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" JimH" ask wrote in message
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"Eisboch" wrote in message
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" JimH" ask wrote in message
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"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
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On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:47:49 -0500, HK wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:42:06 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 12:41:41 -0500, HK
wrote:

It takes a lot more education, training, and skill to become a
steamfitter than it does to become a college graduate.
Harry - give it up - please, you are making an ass of yourself.

Do you know where Harry went to college? Hell, it probably takes the
Navy
about 16 weeks to train one.

I suspect neither of you know what a steamfitter does. He doesn't
replace sewage traps.

I know what a steam/pipe fitter does.

It's a five year apprentice ship program - just like a freakin'
plumber.

The only difference is steam/high pressure welding.

Add another (minimum) 6 months for that skill and certification Tom. Add
other time for high pressure vessel training and you cannot compare a
plumber to a steam pipe fitter.

The training requirements and potential exposures are worlds apart.

Not to start an argument with you but you are way off base on this one.


Bull.

Eisboch


Whatever. I at least made a case.


Knowing a lot of welders and a few pipefitters over my lifetime, most of
the welders are not college material. Good pay as a pipefitter. Big
shortage these days. The local Chevron Refinery has $500mm in upgrades
required. They are short welders. Good job for a lot of people. One of
the major errors in education these days, is the concept that all should go
to college. Maybe 20% of the people, but the education establishment 20-30
years ago, decided that college prep and not any industrial courses were the
norm. At least in California. I do art welding as a hobby and the local
Junior College has a great welding program. they are in the running for the
National Science Foundation grants to increase the female representation in
welding and automotive areas. A big percentage of the people in the welding
certification program are never going to be qualified to be engineers. They
will be great welders, but not the degreed designers.

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" JimH" ask wrote in message
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"Eisboch" wrote in message
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"Reginald Smithers III" wrote in message
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JimH wrote:
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 12:41:41 -0500, HK wrote:

It takes a lot more education, training, and skill to become a
steamfitter than it does to become a college graduate.
Harry - give it up - please, you are making an ass of yourself.

4 years for a college grad. 5 years for a steamfitter.

Eh?

Do they get paid during those 5 years?


Of course.

Irrelevant.


And the major qualification is the 5 years .... not competence.

Eisboch


That may be the key. I wonder what the final certification
qualifications are Do you know?


And you can go to your local Junior College and get in the welding program.
2 years or so you get to graduate with an Associates degree and welding
certification. Seems like those of us who worked our way through college
probably had more than 8000 hours of school and work experience.

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"CalifBill" wrote in message
...


And you can go to your local Junior College and get in the welding
program. 2 years or so you get to graduate with an Associates degree and
welding certification. Seems like those of us who worked our way through
college probably had more than 8000 hours of school and work experience.


I am not familiar with all the various levels of certification for welders.
I know that many welders are not certified at all while some have multiple
certifications. We occasionally performed contracts that required a "U"
stamp, "N" stamp or both. The drawings had to be signed off by a
registered professional engineer and the welders that worked on the project
were required to be tested and certified to those stamp requirements.

My point in this discussion is that the certification requirements are the
same for both union and non-union welders.

Eisboch

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"John H." wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 19:48:46 -0500, BAR wrote:

HK wrote:
Reginald Smithers III wrote:
HK wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
Let us all give thanks to Thomas Crapper for this wonderful
invention.

Which is also used on boats, so it's appropriate.

http://www.cwwa.ca/internationalwaterdays_e.asp


If I had a youngster today, I'd advise them to enter a union
apprenticeship program for either plumbing or electrical. No matter
where these society goes, it is going to want indoor plumbing and
electricity.

There's a chance the nuke plant near us might be expanded. If so, it
will mean several years of very high paying work for union plumbers
and electricians, among others. We're talking about $100,000+ a year,
family-supporting jobs for hardworking men and women who have the
skills to do the necessary critical work.


I had a plumber quote me $465 to change the trap under my mothers
sink. I think he is making more than they make at the nuke plant. Of
course, I didn't hire him, I did it myself.



Yeah, well, if you weren't such an a**hole, the plumber might have
charged $125.

I would still do it myself. 20 minutes work and about $10 in supplies.

The nuke plant plumbers are mostly steamfitters.
It takes a lot more education, training, and skill to become a
steamfitter than it does to become a college graduate.

You can learn to be a steamfitter in the military and you can learn to
operate a nuke plant in the military too.

And it doesn't take no 8000 hours!

My brother was a Seabee and was nuclear certified welder. The Navy sent him
to the Hobart school in Ohio for part of the training. HE could weld before
he entered the service as we both grew up working and playing and cleaning a
large machine shop. Dad owned one of the bigger ones in the SF bay area.
No f'n 8000 hours of study to get the N certification. He was one of the
builders of the nuclear reactor at the US Antarctic station. And if you
went to college, you probably spent more than 8000 hours total getting your
degree. How about the 3-4 hours outside classroom for research and homework
for each hour of lecture?

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"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:50:14 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"D.Duck" wrote in message
om...


If I had it to do all over again I'd have 4 kids.

One would be a doctor.
One would be a dentist.
One would be an electrician.
One would be a plumber.

How about a fifth? A mortician to plant at the end of your visit here.

You seem to have everything else covered.

We could always adopt.

Trust me on this - you don't want doctors in the family.

Ever.

They have the habit of butting into your status and insisting on
seeing things like test reports and establishing relationships with
your own doctor.

You can't get away with anything.

Oddly, they seem to leave Mrs. Wave alone. :)

My mom is an RN. Same thing. Hard to get away with faking sickness for a
day at home.

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"HK" wrote in message
...

It takes a lot more education, training, and skill to become a steamfitter
than it does to become a college graduate.

If they're so smart why do they continue to let people like Ullico handle
their money?

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/s...e,226126.shtml



WASHINGTON, Nov. 16
PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The U.S. Department of Labor
today announced a settlement requiring Union Labor Life Insurance Co.
(ULLICO) of Washington, D.C., to pay back nearly $16.7 million in fees and
compensation to benefit plans that invested in Separate Account J (J for
Jobs), a pooled separate account holding plan assets for the benefit of
employee benefit plan investors. In addition, the insurer must pay $3.3
million to an escrow account to cover additional civil penalties and excise
taxes resulting from alleged violations of federal employee benefits law.
"Self-dealing by pension fiduciaries at the expense of workers' retirement
plans cannot be tolerated," said Secretary of Labor Elaine L. Chao. "This
$20 million settlement is a loud and clear message to all plan fiduciaries
that they will be held accountable when their actions are detrimental to
workers' benefit plans."
The settlement, if approved by the court, successfully resolves a department
investigation concluding that Union Labor Life had used its authority over
the separate account to unilaterally set its own compensation in violation
of the Employee Retirement Income Security Act (ERISA).
In addition to the monetary recovery, the settlement permanently bars Union
Labor Life from retaining compensation from any source in connection with
Separate Account J without advance disclosure of the compensation and
approval by appropriate independent plan fiduciaries. The order broadly
prohibits the insurer from exercising any unilateral discretionary authority
over the compensation it receives as a fiduciary or service provider to
ERISA-covered benefit plans.
The Labor Department filed the lawsuit simultaneously with the settlement,
which is subject to court approval. The lawsuit alleges that Union Labor
Life violated ERISA when it failed to properly disclose its compensation and
receive approval from plan fiduciaries independent of Union Labor Life for
funds taken directly from the investment account, as well as payments
received from third-party borrowers, such as loan commitment fees,
construction administration fees and lender inspection fees. The insurer
allegedly kept, among other fees, millions of dollars from loan applicants
who failed to go forward with loans even though the plans assumed virtually
all the risk of funding those loans.
Separate Account J invests in secured mortgages on real estate development
projects constructed with union labor. The sole investors are ERISA-covered
plans.
The Labor Department's legal action resulted from a comprehensive
investigation conducted by the Philadelphia Regional Office of the
department's Employee Benefits Security Administration and the department's
Office of the Solicitor.
Chao v. ULLICO
Civil Action Number 1:07-cv-02089


U.S. Department of Labor releases are accessible on the Internet at
http://www.dol.gov/. The information in this news release will be made
available in alternate format (large print, Braille, audio tape or disc)
from the COAST office upon request. Please specify which news release when
placing your request at 202-693-7828 or TTY 202-693-7755. The Labor
Department is committed to providing America's employers and employees with
easy access to understandable information on how to comply with its laws and
regulations. For more information, please visit
http://www.dol.gov/compliance.
U.S. Department of Labor

Happy World Toilet Day...
 

BillP wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...

It takes a lot more education, training, and skill to become a steamfitter
than it does to become a college graduate.

If they're so smart why do they continue to let people like Ullico handle
their money?

Oops!

Happy World Toilet Day...
 

"BAR" wrote in message
. ..
BillP wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...

It takes a lot more education, training, and skill to become a
steamfitter
than it does to become a college graduate.

If they're so smart why do they continue to let people like Ullico handle
their money?

Oops!

If I remember correctly Harry was working on the "J for Jobs" project.

Happy World Toilet Day...
 

BillP wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
. ..
BillP wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...

It takes a lot more education, training, and skill to become a
steamfitter
than it does to become a college graduate.
If they're so smart why do they continue to let people like Ullico handle
their money?
Oops!

If I remember correctly Harry was working on the "J for Jobs" project.

I seem to remember that he made a killing on a sweetheart stock deal at
about that time too. I wonder what he spent the money on. Oh, wait I
think it was a 36' Zimmerman like Lobsta' boat build to his specificaitons.

Happy World Toilet Day...
 

BillP wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
. ..
BillP wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...

It takes a lot more education, training, and skill to become a
steamfitter
than it does to become a college graduate.
If they're so smart why do they continue to let people like Ullico handle
their money?
Oops!

If I remember correctly Harry was working on the "J for Jobs" project.




As part of my consulting agreement with the parent holding company, I
handled some publicity for the "J" fund, but that was a minor bit of
work for me. I was mostly involved with marketing in connection with the
restructuring of the organization, which was successful. "Was" is the
operative word, since I haven't been involved there for more than three
years.

Poor babies...both of you are nothing more than floorsweepers in rec.boats.