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When Bush took office...
....gasoline was $1.46 a gallon.
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When Bush took office...
HK wrote:
...gasoline was $1.46 a gallon. And oil was $25 a barrel. |
When Bush took office...
JimH wrote:
"HK" wrote in message . .. ...gasoline was $1.46 a gallon. And the highest gasoline prices were under the leadership of Carter. And your point is? Just another data point with which to bury Republicans next year. |
When Bush took office...
On Nov 10, 9:49 pm, " JimH" ask wrote:
"HK" wrote in message . .. JimH wrote: "HK" wrote in message m... ...gasoline was $1.46 a gallon. And the highest gasoline prices were under the leadership of Carter. And your point is? Just another data point with which to bury Republicans next year. Explain how the "Republicans" caused the increase in gasoline prices. Why would gasoline prices be different today if a Democrat were in office? Well I'm not worried about it. Pres. Hillary Obama will get it right back down to a "buck forty-nine" in just six months, and will have exec. reps on a rope just like a stringer fll of blue gills. BTW, I'm selling off the Boulder dam tommorrow on ebay.. starting bid just $1.00 with no reserve........ |
When Bush took office...
On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 22:49:44 -0500, " JimH" ask wrote:
Explain how the "Republicans" caused the increase in gasoline prices. That's easy: - The Iraq war - Huge federal defecits - Weak dollar - Poor energy policies - Huge trade imbalance They are all intertwined with high energy prices in various ways. |
When Bush took office...
"Tim" wrote in message
ps.com... On Nov 10, 9:49 pm, " JimH" ask wrote: "HK" wrote in message . .. JimH wrote: "HK" wrote in message m... ...gasoline was $1.46 a gallon. And the highest gasoline prices were under the leadership of Carter. And your point is? Just another data point with which to bury Republicans next year. Explain how the "Republicans" caused the increase in gasoline prices. Why would gasoline prices be different today if a Democrat were in office? Well I'm not worried about it. Pres. Hillary Obama will get it right back down to a "buck forty-nine" in just six months, and will have exec. reps on a rope just like a stringer fll of blue gills. Nobody will get the price down until we eliminate oil speculation by investors who have absolutely no connection with the oil business. |
When Bush took office...
Nobody will get the price down until we eliminate oil speculation by
investors who have absolutely no connection with the oil business. AMEN! That's exactly what makes a $20 barrel of crude "worth" $90. --Mike "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "Tim" wrote in message ps.com... On Nov 10, 9:49 pm, " JimH" ask wrote: "HK" wrote in message . .. JimH wrote: "HK" wrote in message m... ...gasoline was $1.46 a gallon. And the highest gasoline prices were under the leadership of Carter. And your point is? Just another data point with which to bury Republicans next year. Explain how the "Republicans" caused the increase in gasoline prices. Why would gasoline prices be different today if a Democrat were in office? Well I'm not worried about it. Pres. Hillary Obama will get it right back down to a "buck forty-nine" in just six months, and will have exec. reps on a rope just like a stringer fll of blue gills. Nobody will get the price down until we eliminate oil speculation by investors who have absolutely no connection with the oil business. |
When Bush took office...
JimH wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 22:49:44 -0500, " JimH" ask wrote: Explain how the "Republicans" caused the increase in gasoline prices. That's easy: - The Iraq war - Huge federal defecits - Weak dollar - Poor energy policies - Huge trade imbalance They are all intertwined with high energy prices in various ways. And of course the Republicans are the cause of all of them.......eh? Nice try Wayne. Yeah, they are. |
When Bush took office...
JimH wrote:
"HK" wrote in message . .. JimH wrote: "Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 22:49:44 -0500, " JimH" ask wrote: Explain how the "Republicans" caused the increase in gasoline prices. That's easy: - The Iraq war - Huge federal defecits - Weak dollar - Poor energy policies - Huge trade imbalance They are all intertwined with high energy prices in various ways. And of course the Republicans are the cause of all of them.......eh? Nice try Wayne. Yeah, they are. Remind me again who has control of Congress. At the moment, no one. The Dems do not yet have a working majority. |
When Bush took office...
JimH wrote:
"HK" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "HK" wrote in message . .. JimH wrote: "Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 22:49:44 -0500, " JimH" ask wrote: Explain how the "Republicans" caused the increase in gasoline prices. That's easy: - The Iraq war - Huge federal defecits - Weak dollar - Poor energy policies - Huge trade imbalance They are all intertwined with high energy prices in various ways. And of course the Republicans are the cause of all of them.......eh? Nice try Wayne. Yeah, they are. Remind me again who has control of Congress. At the moment, no one. The Dems do not yet have a working majority. Nice try but no cigar for you. I don't smoke, but my statement is correct. If the Dems had "control" of Congress, they would have the votes within their party to override a presidential veto. That's what control means when the other party controls the white house. |
When Bush took office...
"Mike" wrote in message
et... Nobody will get the price down until we eliminate oil speculation by investors who have absolutely no connection with the oil business. AMEN! That's exactly what makes a $20 barrel of crude "worth" $90. --Mike A number of newsgroup 'tards have told me in the past that speculators are all kind hearted professionals trying to hedge on behalf of their oil companies. The Indian government (and reality) are in disagreement with that idea: http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/11/...ss/08nymex.php |
When Bush took office...
On Nov 11, 12:19 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Tim" wrote in message ps.com... On Nov 10, 9:49 pm, " JimH" ask wrote: "HK" wrote in message m... JimH wrote: "HK" wrote in message m... ...gasoline was $1.46 a gallon. And the highest gasoline prices were under the leadership of Carter. And your point is? Just another data point with which to bury Republicans next year. Explain how the "Republicans" caused the increase in gasoline prices. Why would gasoline prices be different today if a Democrat were in office? Well I'm not worried about it. Pres. Hillary Obama will get it right back down to a "buck forty-nine" in just six months, and will have exec. reps on a rope just like a stringer fll of blue gills. Nobody will get the price down until we eliminate oil speculation by investors who have absolutely no connection with the oil business.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - But I also don't know if China having more drivers on their roads int he past two years than the precious 20 might have to do anything with it or not. Plus most of their electricity is supplied by oil instead of coal. hmmmm. |
When Bush took office...
On Nov 11, 8:09 am, Tim wrote:
On Nov 11, 12:19 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: "Tim" wrote in message ups.com... On Nov 10, 9:49 pm, " JimH" ask wrote: "HK" wrote in message m... JimH wrote: "HK" wrote in message m... ...gasoline was $1.46 a gallon. And the highest gasoline prices were under the leadership of Carter. And your point is? Just another data point with which to bury Republicans next year. Explain how the "Republicans" caused the increase in gasoline prices. Why would gasoline prices be different today if a Democrat were in office? Well I'm not worried about it. Pres. Hillary Obama will get it right back down to a "buck forty-nine" in just six months, and will have exec. reps on a rope just like a stringer fll of blue gills. Nobody will get the price down until we eliminate oil speculation by investors who have absolutely no connection with the oil business.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - But I also don't know if China having more drivers on their roads int he past two years than the precious 20 might have to do anything with it or not. Plus most of their electricity is supplied by oil instead of coal. hmmmm.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - precious? er *previous* sorry |
When Bush took office...
"Tim" wrote in message
oups.com... On Nov 11, 12:19 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: "Tim" wrote in message ps.com... On Nov 10, 9:49 pm, " JimH" ask wrote: "HK" wrote in message m... JimH wrote: "HK" wrote in message m... ...gasoline was $1.46 a gallon. And the highest gasoline prices were under the leadership of Carter. And your point is? Just another data point with which to bury Republicans next year. Explain how the "Republicans" caused the increase in gasoline prices. Why would gasoline prices be different today if a Democrat were in office? Well I'm not worried about it. Pres. Hillary Obama will get it right back down to a "buck forty-nine" in just six months, and will have exec. reps on a rope just like a stringer fll of blue gills. Nobody will get the price down until we eliminate oil speculation by investors who have absolutely no connection with the oil business.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - But I also don't know if China having more drivers on their roads int he past two years than the precious 20 might have to do anything with it or not. All the factors add up. But, one factor should (and could) be made illegal. If a mutual fund bids up the price of a stock, if might affect you if you wanted to but that stock and you wished it were cheaper. But, you don't HAVE to buy that stock. Oil, on the other hand - you have no choice if you need to drive a car. The price is being meddled with by investors fiddling with it for recreational purposes. |
When Bush took office...
On Nov 11, 8:55 am, HK wrote:
JimH wrote: "HK" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "HK" wrote in message om... JimH wrote: "Wayne.B" wrote in message om... On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 22:49:44 -0500, " JimH" ask wrote: Explain how the "Republicans" caused the increase in gasoline prices. That's easy: - The Iraq war - Huge federal defecits - Weak dollar - Poor energy policies - Huge trade imbalance They are all intertwined with high energy prices in various ways. And of course the Republicans are the cause of all of them.......eh? Nice try Wayne. Yeah, they are. Remind me again who has control of Congress. At the moment, no one. The Dems do not yet have a working majority. Nice try but no cigar for you. I don't smoke, but my statement is correct. If the Dems had "control" of Congress, they would have the votes within their party to override a presidential veto. That's what control means when the other party controls the white house.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Bull****. the only bills that he has vetoed were nothing to do with our economy, cept to drown it with a huge socialized medical spending bill for the limosine liberals and illegals... They have not even tried to put up any appropriations bills or any other energy bills either, they are just concerened with power and earmark spending... |
When Bush took office...
wrote in message
ups.com... On Nov 11, 8:55 am, HK wrote: JimH wrote: "HK" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "HK" wrote in message om... JimH wrote: "Wayne.B" wrote in message om... On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 22:49:44 -0500, " JimH" ask wrote: Explain how the "Republicans" caused the increase in gasoline prices. That's easy: - The Iraq war - Huge federal defecits - Weak dollar - Poor energy policies - Huge trade imbalance They are all intertwined with high energy prices in various ways. And of course the Republicans are the cause of all of them.......eh? Nice try Wayne. Yeah, they are. Remind me again who has control of Congress. At the moment, no one. The Dems do not yet have a working majority. Nice try but no cigar for you. I don't smoke, but my statement is correct. If the Dems had "control" of Congress, they would have the votes within their party to override a presidential veto. That's what control means when the other party controls the white house.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Bull****. the only bills that he has vetoed were nothing to do with our economy, cept to drown it with a huge socialized medical spending bill for the limosine liberals and illegals... They have not even tried to put up any appropriations bills or any other energy bills either, they are just concerened with power and earmark spending... There is already a socialized medicine program whose existence you approve of, and might even admire. If I told you that I had the power to end this program and that I intended to do so, you'd say nasty things about me. Guess what this program is. |
When Bush took office...
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "Tim" wrote in message ps.com... On Nov 10, 9:49 pm, " JimH" ask wrote: "HK" wrote in message . .. JimH wrote: "HK" wrote in message m... ...gasoline was $1.46 a gallon. And the highest gasoline prices were under the leadership of Carter. And your point is? Just another data point with which to bury Republicans next year. Explain how the "Republicans" caused the increase in gasoline prices. Why would gasoline prices be different today if a Democrat were in office? Well I'm not worried about it. Pres. Hillary Obama will get it right back down to a "buck forty-nine" in just six months, and will have exec. reps on a rope just like a stringer fll of blue gills. Nobody will get the price down until we eliminate oil speculation by investors who have absolutely no connection with the oil business. Most of the increases in gasoline prices for the last year are due to the devaluation of the greenback, not in any real way has the value of a barrel of oil changed. It is opposite thinking from what politicians preach. A paper currency is just like stock. It goes up when people want it, and down when people don't want it. Just like commodities, currency fluxuates in value. If the US fed raised interest rates and tightened up the money supply the dollar would have more value. Does not congress work with the Fed on such maters? Combine this with sub-prime mortgages and asset backed paper liquidity problems.... It is more accurate to think of the barrel of oil value being constant and the currency has lost value. If you had 100% of your investments in a stable currency last year, they would have gone up 20% against the USD not including interest. Blame government monetary policy. |
When Bush took office...
"Canuck57" wrote in message
news:EzEZi.200735$1y4.155047@pd7urf2no... "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "Tim" wrote in message ps.com... On Nov 10, 9:49 pm, " JimH" ask wrote: "HK" wrote in message . .. JimH wrote: "HK" wrote in message m... ...gasoline was $1.46 a gallon. And the highest gasoline prices were under the leadership of Carter. And your point is? Just another data point with which to bury Republicans next year. Explain how the "Republicans" caused the increase in gasoline prices. Why would gasoline prices be different today if a Democrat were in office? Well I'm not worried about it. Pres. Hillary Obama will get it right back down to a "buck forty-nine" in just six months, and will have exec. reps on a rope just like a stringer fll of blue gills. Nobody will get the price down until we eliminate oil speculation by investors who have absolutely no connection with the oil business. Most of the increases in gasoline prices for the last year are due to the devaluation of the greenback, not in any real way has the value of a barrel of oil changed. It is opposite thinking from what politicians preach. A paper currency is just like stock. It goes up when people want it, and down when people don't want it. Just like commodities, currency fluxuates in value. If the US fed raised interest rates and tightened up the money supply the dollar would have more value. Does not congress work with the Fed on such maters? Combine this with sub-prime mortgages and asset backed paper liquidity problems.... It is more accurate to think of the barrel of oil value being constant and the currency has lost value. If you had 100% of your investments in a stable currency last year, they would have gone up 20% against the USD not including interest. Blame government monetary policy. All true, but I stand by my original comment. Oil is one commodity which should be untouchable by recreational speculators. I'm talking illegal, go to jail, that sort of thing. You know I'm right. |
When Bush took office...
"Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 22:49:44 -0500, " JimH" ask wrote: Explain how the "Republicans" caused the increase in gasoline prices. That's easy: - The Iraq war - Huge federal defecits - Weak dollar - Poor energy policies - Huge trade imbalance They are all intertwined with high energy prices in various ways. Well put. And to pay for it the fed "created" too much money diluting the greenback. Supply and demand. Oversupply of currency and far too low interest rates generally mean lower value of the currency itself. But I think most of us didn't anticipate the size and speed of the devaluation of the USD. As this moves through the supply chain it is going to drive a mean kick on inflation and probably interest rates too. Sub-prime for example. Who wants risky debt, liquidity issues for an interest rate below inflation? But if they jumped rates to 12+% the cash would come. Rates are artificially low. That is why there is a crunch. Most people should think of paper currency just like stock. And devaluation depreciates the stock it is going to take more stock to buy the same other item as it did before. You feel it first with gasoline as inventories are short. The real value of oil has not changed that much in a year. |
When Bush took office...
Canuck57 wrote:
" JimH" ask wrote in message ... "HK" wrote in message . .. JimH wrote: "Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 22:49:44 -0500, " JimH" ask wrote: Explain how the "Republicans" caused the increase in gasoline prices. That's easy: - The Iraq war - Huge federal defecits - Weak dollar - Poor energy policies - Huge trade imbalance They are all intertwined with high energy prices in various ways. And of course the Republicans are the cause of all of them.......eh? Nice try Wayne. Yeah, they are. Remind me again who has control of Congress. Good point. A good video on this: http://video.google.ca/videoplay?doc...ch&pli ndex=1 Ack! RonPaulCrackPotLoonitarianAlert! |
When Bush took office...
Gene Kearns wrote:
On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 22:17:04 -0500, BAR penned the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: HK wrote: ...gasoline was $1.46 a gallon. And oil was $25 a barrel. Man..... listen to that reel scream! That is exactly what I thought. It is a feeding frenzy, everyone fighting to take the bait. |
When Bush took office...
On Nov 10, 10:26 pm, " JimH" ask wrote:
"HK" wrote in message . .. ...gasoline was $1.46 a gallon. And the highest gasoline prices were under the leadership of Carter. And your point is? Wrong again! |
When Bush took office...
On Nov 11, 9:24 am, wrote:
On Nov 11, 8:55 am, HK wrote: JimH wrote: "HK" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "HK" wrote in message om... JimH wrote: "Wayne.B" wrote in message om... On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 22:49:44 -0500, " JimH" ask wrote: Explain how the "Republicans" caused the increase in gasoline prices. That's easy: - The Iraq war - Huge federal defecits - Weak dollar - Poor energy policies - Huge trade imbalance They are all intertwined with high energy prices in various ways. And of course the Republicans are the cause of all of them.......eh? Nice try Wayne. Yeah, they are. Remind me again who has control of Congress. At the moment, no one. The Dems do not yet have a working majority. Nice try but no cigar for you. I don't smoke, but my statement is correct. If the Dems had "control" of Congress, they would have the votes within their party to override a presidential veto. That's what control means when the other party controls the white house.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Bull****. the only bills that he has vetoed were nothing to do with our economy, cept to drown it with a huge socialized medical spending bill for the limosine liberals and illegals... They have not even tried to put up any appropriations bills or any other energy bills either, they are just concerened with power and earmark spending...- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Is that you, Rush Hannity? |
When Bush took office...
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... wrote in message ups.com... On Nov 11, 8:55 am, HK wrote: JimH wrote: "HK" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "HK" wrote in message om... JimH wrote: "Wayne.B" wrote in message om... On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 22:49:44 -0500, " JimH" ask wrote: Explain how the "Republicans" caused the increase in gasoline prices. That's easy: - The Iraq war - Huge federal defecits - Weak dollar - Poor energy policies - Huge trade imbalance They are all intertwined with high energy prices in various ways. And of course the Republicans are the cause of all of them.......eh? Nice try Wayne. Yeah, they are. Remind me again who has control of Congress. At the moment, no one. The Dems do not yet have a working majority. Nice try but no cigar for you. I don't smoke, but my statement is correct. If the Dems had "control" of Congress, they would have the votes within their party to override a presidential veto. That's what control means when the other party controls the white house.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Bull****. the only bills that he has vetoed were nothing to do with our economy, cept to drown it with a huge socialized medical spending bill for the limosine liberals and illegals... They have not even tried to put up any appropriations bills or any other energy bills either, they are just concerened with power and earmark spending... There is already a socialized medicine program whose existence you approve of, and might even admire. If I told you that I had the power to end this program and that I intended to do so, you'd say nasty things about me. Guess what this program is. And when the Dems gain control, all will be sweetness and light. Ha! |
When Bush took office...
On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 15:05:18 GMT, "Canuck57"
wrote: "Wayne.B" wrote in message .. . On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 22:49:44 -0500, " JimH" ask wrote: Explain how the "Republicans" caused the increase in gasoline prices. That's easy: - The Iraq war - Huge federal defecits - Weak dollar - Poor energy policies - Huge trade imbalance They are all intertwined with high energy prices in various ways. Well put. And to pay for it the fed "created" too much money diluting the greenback. Supply and demand. Oversupply of currency and far too low interest rates generally mean lower value of the currency itself. But I think most of us didn't anticipate the size and speed of the devaluation of the USD. As this moves through the supply chain it is going to drive a mean kick on inflation and probably interest rates too. Sub-prime for example. Who wants risky debt, liquidity issues for an interest rate below inflation? But if they jumped rates to 12+% the cash would come. Rates are artificially low. That is why there is a crunch. Most people should think of paper currency just like stock. And devaluation depreciates the stock it is going to take more stock to buy the same other item as it did before. You feel it first with gasoline as inventories are short. The real value of oil has not changed that much in a year. The issue with the Fed and low interest rates is more complicated, dating back to the "dot.com" stock market bust and the desire to avoid a recession. The fact that rates were maintained too low for too long led to the real estate bubble and created the demand for sub prime, high risk lending. Yes, actually created the demand by stimulating the so called "carry trade". The carry trade is Wall Street's name for borrowing money at low interest in a venue like Japan, and investing it at high interest rates somewhere else. It's a can't lose proposition in a stable investment climate, limited only by your ability to borrow large amounts of money and safely reinvest it. Since Japan had virtually unlimited amounts of money to lend, the ability to reinvest was the primary limitation. Banks and other lending institutions in the US had already found it profitable to bundle up various kinds of debt obligations and resell them as bonds to institutional investors. They were percieved as low risk, high yield investments and were very popular. They were also very profitable for the banks who were packaging the loans and selling them off. There is only so much high quality debt available for repackaging however so that sparked the sub-prime high risk lending business to create more opportunities for selling bonds. Like all things the reality is even more complicated, but that is the one paragraph view from 30,000 feet. |
When Bush took office...
BAR wrote:
HK wrote: ...gasoline was $1.46 a gallon. And oil was $25 a barrel. And there was a lot less war in the world. He campaigned on not doing nation building and humility in foreign policy. |
When Bush took office...
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "Canuck57" wrote in message news:EzEZi.200735$1y4.155047@pd7urf2no... "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "Tim" wrote in message ps.com... On Nov 10, 9:49 pm, " JimH" ask wrote: "HK" wrote in message . .. JimH wrote: "HK" wrote in message m... ...gasoline was $1.46 a gallon. And the highest gasoline prices were under the leadership of Carter. And your point is? Just another data point with which to bury Republicans next year. Explain how the "Republicans" caused the increase in gasoline prices. Why would gasoline prices be different today if a Democrat were in office? Well I'm not worried about it. Pres. Hillary Obama will get it right back down to a "buck forty-nine" in just six months, and will have exec. reps on a rope just like a stringer fll of blue gills. Nobody will get the price down until we eliminate oil speculation by investors who have absolutely no connection with the oil business. Most of the increases in gasoline prices for the last year are due to the devaluation of the greenback, not in any real way has the value of a barrel of oil changed. It is opposite thinking from what politicians preach. A paper currency is just like stock. It goes up when people want it, and down when people don't want it. Just like commodities, currency fluxuates in value. If the US fed raised interest rates and tightened up the money supply the dollar would have more value. Does not congress work with the Fed on such maters? Combine this with sub-prime mortgages and asset backed paper liquidity problems.... It is more accurate to think of the barrel of oil value being constant and the currency has lost value. If you had 100% of your investments in a stable currency last year, they would have gone up 20% against the USD not including interest. Blame government monetary policy. All true, but I stand by my original comment. Oil is one commodity which should be untouchable by recreational speculators. I'm talking illegal, go to jail, that sort of thing. You know I'm right. It is easy then other than how do I carry a $100 barrel of oil around? That is peg the currency to 1 exact barrel of oil and not the Fed's or Congressional view of it. But for this to work, if I tender $100 you have to give me my exact 1 barrel of oil. Something the government and the fed will not do. That is, back the currency in real constant value. I knew when Greenspan retired the greed of Fed/banks would in time screw it up. My bet paid off handsomely. One must look at paper currency as stock that generally devaluates due to government over spending and big banking policies. Oil is just like black gold. Gold too has the same curve against the USD. So has copper. I don't follow silver but suspect it to has too. Blame the "oil" companies is a farce, a political excuse to focus people away from the real issues. And the spread between currency devaluation and fixed value commodities suggests interest rates should be in the order of 10-12%. Which of course they are not. Because the Fed is still creating money to address the liquidity crunch this creates. A real down stream inflation generator. It is also why I keep little cash. Cash ultimately depreciates to the bank/governments favor. I keep a 4-5 month inventory of cash in case I get laid off but after that it is into something more tangible. Most often think of cash as a constant value, how wrong these people are. It is generally best viewed as a depreciable asset. Where as an ounce of gold or barrel of oil will have the same NPV in 30 years. The bad part is I don't see the Fed/Congress doing a thing about it. I wish they would. As I expect this to continue. Want to make more on the turn around, looking for the bottom. All because I like fishing and not rich enough to retire to do it full time. |
When Bush took office...
Jim wrote:
BAR wrote: HK wrote: ...gasoline was $1.46 a gallon. And oil was $25 a barrel. And there was a lot less war in the world. He campaigned on not doing nation building and humility in foreign policy. \ Well, one thing for su Bush hasn't succeeded in his attempts to nation-build. |
When Bush took office...
On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 14:46:45 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote: All true, but I stand by my original comment. Oil is one commodity which should be untouchable by recreational speculators. I'm talking illegal, go to jail, that sort of thing. You know I'm right. There are no "recreational speculators". Everyone who trades commodity futures is doing it for business reasons of one sort or another. You may not agree that all of their reasons are valid but the commodity futures market is absolutely essential both to the producers and consumers of any given commodity. The markets themselves help to dampen out large daily price swings by evening out supply and demand over time, and so called speculators are part of that process - just like the stock market. It would be more accurate to call them short term investors. |
When Bush took office...
|
When Bush took office...
On Nov 11, 10:57 am, wrote:
On Nov 11, 9:24 am, wrote: On Nov 11, 8:55 am, HK wrote: JimH wrote: "HK" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "HK" wrote in message om... JimH wrote: "Wayne.B" wrote in message om... On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 22:49:44 -0500, " JimH" ask wrote: Explain how the "Republicans" caused the increase in gasoline prices. That's easy: - The Iraq war - Huge federal defecits - Weak dollar - Poor energy policies - Huge trade imbalance They are all intertwined with high energy prices in various ways. And of course the Republicans are the cause of all of them.......eh? Nice try Wayne. Yeah, they are. Remind me again who has control of Congress. At the moment, no one. The Dems do not yet have a working majority. Nice try but no cigar for you. I don't smoke, but my statement is correct. If the Dems had "control" of Congress, they would have the votes within their party to override a presidential veto. That's what control means when the other party controls the white house.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Bull****. the only bills that he has vetoed were nothing to do with our economy, cept to drown it with a huge socialized medical spending bill for the limosine liberals and illegals... They have not even tried to put up any appropriations bills or any other energy bills either, they are just concerened with power and earmark spending...- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Is that you, Rush Hannity?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Oh Gawd.. please tell me which bills Bush has vetoed... Please tell me what bills the new congress has tried to pass to fix these problems. The answers are one and none.... Facts are facts, they are not putting up bills period, only interested in social engineering. You must be MSNBC.. they don't really care about facts... |
When Bush took office...
On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 11:00:32 -0500, "Lu Powell"
wrote: "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... wrote in message ups.com... On Nov 11, 8:55 am, HK wrote: JimH wrote: "HK" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "HK" wrote in message om... JimH wrote: "Wayne.B" wrote in message om... On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 22:49:44 -0500, " JimH" ask wrote: Explain how the "Republicans" caused the increase in gasoline prices. That's easy: - The Iraq war - Huge federal defecits - Weak dollar - Poor energy policies - Huge trade imbalance They are all intertwined with high energy prices in various ways. And of course the Republicans are the cause of all of them.......eh? Nice try Wayne. Yeah, they are. Remind me again who has control of Congress. At the moment, no one. The Dems do not yet have a working majority. Nice try but no cigar for you. I don't smoke, but my statement is correct. If the Dems had "control" of Congress, they would have the votes within their party to override a presidential veto. That's what control means when the other party controls the white house.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Bull****. the only bills that he has vetoed were nothing to do with our economy, cept to drown it with a huge socialized medical spending bill for the limosine liberals and illegals... They have not even tried to put up any appropriations bills or any other energy bills either, they are just concerened with power and earmark spending... There is already a socialized medicine program whose existence you approve of, and might even admire. If I told you that I had the power to end this program and that I intended to do so, you'd say nasty things about me. Guess what this program is. And when the Dems gain control, all will be sweetness and light. Ha! You of course are familiar with the saying "lesser of two evils." You'd prefer the more evil was left in charge? Dems, while not effective, are at least focused on more positive outcomes. The Republicans will bankrupt us with bullets tax cuts and the Dems with social programs. At least the social programs benefit someone of than arms manufacturers and oil companies. Which do you prefer? jps |
When Bush took office...
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
... On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 14:46:45 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: All true, but I stand by my original comment. Oil is one commodity which should be untouchable by recreational speculators. I'm talking illegal, go to jail, that sort of thing. You know I'm right. There are no "recreational speculators". Everyone who trades commodity futures is doing it for business reasons of one sort or another. You may not agree that all of their reasons are valid but the commodity futures market is absolutely essential both to the producers and consumers of any given commodity. The markets themselves help to dampen out large daily price swings by evening out supply and demand over time, and so called speculators are part of that process - just like the stock market. It would be more accurate to call them short term investors. Sorry, Wayne, but in fact, there are recreational spectators. A mutual fund investing in the oil futures market - the manager (and the fund's customers) are all recreational spectators. About a year ago, a Barron's article mentioned that on some days, players (let's use that shorter description from now on) place more trades than oil companies who are legitimately trying to hedge on behalf of their firms. However, you're right about "business reasons of one sort or another". The problem is that "one sort" hurts you and I. No matter who plays in these markets and whether they win or lose, there's someone who makes out like a bandit: The clearinghouses. |
When Bush took office...
"Lu Powell" wrote in message
. .. "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... wrote in message ups.com... On Nov 11, 8:55 am, HK wrote: JimH wrote: "HK" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "HK" wrote in message om... JimH wrote: "Wayne.B" wrote in message om... On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 22:49:44 -0500, " JimH" ask wrote: Explain how the "Republicans" caused the increase in gasoline prices. That's easy: - The Iraq war - Huge federal defecits - Weak dollar - Poor energy policies - Huge trade imbalance They are all intertwined with high energy prices in various ways. And of course the Republicans are the cause of all of them.......eh? Nice try Wayne. Yeah, they are. Remind me again who has control of Congress. At the moment, no one. The Dems do not yet have a working majority. Nice try but no cigar for you. I don't smoke, but my statement is correct. If the Dems had "control" of Congress, they would have the votes within their party to override a presidential veto. That's what control means when the other party controls the white house.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Bull****. the only bills that he has vetoed were nothing to do with our economy, cept to drown it with a huge socialized medical spending bill for the limosine liberals and illegals... They have not even tried to put up any appropriations bills or any other energy bills either, they are just concerened with power and earmark spending... There is already a socialized medicine program whose existence you approve of, and might even admire. If I told you that I had the power to end this program and that I intended to do so, you'd say nasty things about me. Guess what this program is. And when the Dems gain control, all will be sweetness and light. Ha! That doesn't answer the question. Please name the socialized medicine which you approve of and would not want to see eliminated. |
When Bush took office...
"Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 15:05:18 GMT, "Canuck57" wrote: "Wayne.B" wrote in message . .. On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 22:49:44 -0500, " JimH" ask wrote: Explain how the "Republicans" caused the increase in gasoline prices. That's easy: - The Iraq war - Huge federal defecits - Weak dollar - Poor energy policies - Huge trade imbalance They are all intertwined with high energy prices in various ways. Well put. And to pay for it the fed "created" too much money diluting the greenback. Supply and demand. Oversupply of currency and far too low interest rates generally mean lower value of the currency itself. But I think most of us didn't anticipate the size and speed of the devaluation of the USD. As this moves through the supply chain it is going to drive a mean kick on inflation and probably interest rates too. Sub-prime for example. Who wants risky debt, liquidity issues for an interest rate below inflation? But if they jumped rates to 12+% the cash would come. Rates are artificially low. That is why there is a crunch. Most people should think of paper currency just like stock. And devaluation depreciates the stock it is going to take more stock to buy the same other item as it did before. You feel it first with gasoline as inventories are short. The real value of oil has not changed that much in a year. The issue with the Fed and low interest rates is more complicated, dating back to the "dot.com" stock market bust and the desire to avoid a recession. The fact that rates were maintained too low for too long led to the real estate bubble and created the demand for sub prime, high risk lending. Yes, actually created the demand by stimulating the so called "carry trade". The carry trade is Wall Street's name for borrowing money at low interest in a venue like Japan, and investing it at high interest rates somewhere else. It's a can't lose proposition in a stable investment climate, limited only by your ability to borrow large amounts of money and safely reinvest it. Since Japan had virtually unlimited amounts of money to lend, the ability to reinvest was the primary limitation. Banks and other lending institutions in the US had already found it profitable to bundle up various kinds of debt obligations and resell them as bonds to institutional investors. They were percieved as low risk, high yield investments and were very popular. They were also very profitable for the banks who were packaging the loans and selling them off. There is only so much high quality debt available for repackaging however so that sparked the sub-prime high risk lending business to create more opportunities for selling bonds. Like all things the reality is even more complicated, but that is the one paragraph view from 30,000 feet. Might be 30,000 feet, but very interesting view point. I didn't follow sub-prime that closely. In fact, I divested almost all my mortgage/bond instruments some 4-5 years ago now as to me the risk/reward curve was wrong. 3-4% is a joke given "real" inflation rates. But what you say, also means quite a bit of loan/bond "paper" is just that, a big paper write down. Because if they borrowed Japanese Yen last year at this time, they owe 20-30% more in USD today above it's face value. Sort of like a uncovered put option gone bad. It will be interesting to see how the Fed/Banks work this one. But bet it isn't going to be pretty. Maybe even see $150/barrel yet. Or maybe they can't afford to let that happen and jack rates fast. Hard to tell. But my bet is to watch closely what the big Fed related banks are doing. If they start buying discounted paper the bottom is near. But that may be a ways off. |
When Bush took office...
HK wrote:
Jim wrote: BAR wrote: HK wrote: ...gasoline was $1.46 a gallon. And oil was $25 a barrel. And there was a lot less war in the world. He campaigned on not doing nation building and humility in foreign policy. \ Well, one thing for su Bush hasn't succeeded in his attempts to nation-build. He hasn't succeeded in just about anything, except proving his election was a bad idea. Hopefully all of this makes voters think a little harder next time. |
When Bush took office...
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 14:46:45 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: All true, but I stand by my original comment. Oil is one commodity which should be untouchable by recreational speculators. I'm talking illegal, go to jail, that sort of thing. You know I'm right. There are no "recreational speculators". Everyone who trades commodity futures is doing it for business reasons of one sort or another. You may not agree that all of their reasons are valid but the commodity futures market is absolutely essential both to the producers and consumers of any given commodity. The markets themselves help to dampen out large daily price swings by evening out supply and demand over time, and so called speculators are part of that process - just like the stock market. It would be more accurate to call them short term investors. Sorry, Wayne, but in fact, there are recreational spectators. A mutual fund investing in the oil futures market - the manager (and the fund's customers) are all recreational spectators. About a year ago, a Barron's article mentioned that on some days, players (let's use that shorter description from now on) place more trades than oil companies who are legitimately trying to hedge on behalf of their firms. Not necessarily speculation, maybe for some. The fact of the mater is our currencies are not stable (and devaluate/inflation) and neither are most businesses. Those that bought oil futures, gold and items of a constant value of aquisition were in fact hedging againt a dollar decline. Good investment move maintaining value for their investors. Same reason you buy a home. Once purchased, 30 years later it might be worth 5-10 times what you paid for it. Is this speculation? The markets will always weed out blind speculators in time. However, you're right about "business reasons of one sort or another". The problem is that "one sort" hurts you and I. No matter who plays in these markets and whether they win or lose, there's someone who makes out like a bandit: The clearinghouses. This is a fact. We all hurt, even though I owned a barrel or two of oil, it isn't good to make 30% when the currency devalues 30%. In a long term perspective, while hedged on the devaluation I didn't get value. But I think that is the whole point of this video: http://video.google.ca/videoplay?doc...ch&pli ndex=1 |
When Bush took office...
On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 00:43:13 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote: On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 22:49:44 -0500, " JimH" ask wrote: Explain how the "Republicans" caused the increase in gasoline prices. That's easy: - The Iraq war - Huge federal defecits - Weak dollar - Poor energy policies - Huge trade imbalance They are all intertwined with high energy prices in various ways. You forgot the most important one - namely defending the dollar against speculation. That, in my opinion, is the real crime. |
When Bush took office...
"Canuck57" wrote in message
news:LBIZi.199547$Da.7070@pd7urf1no... "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 14:46:45 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: All true, but I stand by my original comment. Oil is one commodity which should be untouchable by recreational speculators. I'm talking illegal, go to jail, that sort of thing. You know I'm right. There are no "recreational speculators". Everyone who trades commodity futures is doing it for business reasons of one sort or another. You may not agree that all of their reasons are valid but the commodity futures market is absolutely essential both to the producers and consumers of any given commodity. The markets themselves help to dampen out large daily price swings by evening out supply and demand over time, and so called speculators are part of that process - just like the stock market. It would be more accurate to call them short term investors. Sorry, Wayne, but in fact, there are recreational spectators. A mutual fund investing in the oil futures market - the manager (and the fund's customers) are all recreational spectators. About a year ago, a Barron's article mentioned that on some days, players (let's use that shorter description from now on) place more trades than oil companies who are legitimately trying to hedge on behalf of their firms. Not necessarily speculation, maybe for some. The fact of the mater is our currencies are not stable (and devaluate/inflation) and neither are most businesses. Those that bought oil futures, gold and items of a constant value of aquisition were in fact hedging againt a dollar decline. Good investment move maintaining value for their investors. Same reason you buy a home. Once purchased, 30 years later it might be worth 5-10 times what you paid for it. Is this speculation? The markets will always weed out blind speculators in time. However, you're right about "business reasons of one sort or another". The problem is that "one sort" hurts you and I. No matter who plays in these markets and whether they win or lose, there's someone who makes out like a bandit: The clearinghouses. This is a fact. We all hurt, even though I owned a barrel or two of oil, it isn't good to make 30% when the currency devalues 30%. In a long term perspective, while hedged on the devaluation I didn't get value. But I think that is the whole point of this video: http://video.google.ca/videoplay?doc...ch&pli ndex=1 Even if, in a perfect world, there were no currency fluctuations, oil prices would be bounced around by investors who haven't got a clue about the physical realities of the oil markets. "Oil jumped a dollar a barrel today in trading, on fears of renewed violence in Baghdad". Excuse me? Violence in Baghdad, in a country which statistically speaking provides little or no oil? This is the same reason tech stocks all take a dive when one of them announces low earnings. It's bull****. "on fears of" |
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