Biofuels - the new green house gas...
 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle2507851.ece

~~ snerk ~~

Biofuels - the new green house gas...
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle2507851.ece

~~ snerk ~~

Forget global warming for the moment, because it's like the 2nd amendment,
which will also be debated endlessly.

Let's say there was really a god, and one day, she reaches down, picks up
the White House and the Kremlin, and yells their occupants "OK you
knuckleheads - listen up. All your geological predictions are wrong. You
have exactly 5 years worth of oil left, and don't doubt me on this. I'm
already in a mood. I'm gonna put your buildings back now, and I'm warning
you - don't start making stupid speeches (as usual) until you've thought
this over. It should take you about a day. Here's a hint that'll give you a
headache: Weight Watchers."

Then, she puts the White House in Moscow and the Kremlin in Washington
(making landscapers cringe because the feng shui is all wrong).

I wonder what would happen.

Biofuels - the new green house gas...
 

"JoeSpareBedroom" writes:

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle2507851.ece

~~ snerk ~~

Forget global warming for the moment, because it's like the 2nd amendment,
which will also be debated endlessly.

Let's say there was really a god, and one day, she reaches down, picks up
the White House and the Kremlin, and yells their occupants "OK you
knuckleheads - listen up. All your geological predictions are wrong. You
have exactly 5 years worth of oil left, and don't doubt me on this. I'm
already in a mood. I'm gonna put your buildings back now, and I'm warning
you - don't start making stupid speeches (as usual) until you've thought
this over. It should take you about a day. Here's a hint that'll give you a
headache: Weight Watchers."

Then, she puts the White House in Moscow and the Kremlin in Washington
(making landscapers cringe because the feng shui is all wrong).

I wonder what would happen.

Three questions:

1) Boating content???
2) Why leave out Beijing and New Dehli?
but above all:
3) Weight watchers????

--
Martin Schöön "Problems worthy of attack
show their worth by hitting back."
Piet Hein

Biofuels - the new green house gas...
 

"Martin "Schöön"" wrote in message
...
"JoeSpareBedroom" writes:

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle2507851.ece

~~ snerk ~~

Forget global warming for the moment, because it's like the 2nd
amendment,
which will also be debated endlessly.

Let's say there was really a god, and one day, she reaches down, picks up
the White House and the Kremlin, and yells their occupants "OK you
knuckleheads - listen up. All your geological predictions are wrong. You
have exactly 5 years worth of oil left, and don't doubt me on this. I'm
already in a mood. I'm gonna put your buildings back now, and I'm warning
you - don't start making stupid speeches (as usual) until you've thought
this over. It should take you about a day. Here's a hint that'll give you
a
headache: Weight Watchers."

Then, she puts the White House in Moscow and the Kremlin in Washington
(making landscapers cringe because the feng shui is all wrong).

I wonder what would happen.

Three questions:

1) Boating content???
2) Why leave out Beijing and New Dehli?
but above all:
3) Weight watchers????


1) Ask the OP. I just followed his lead. This way, JohnH can blame him for a
change.

2) Gotta start somewhere.

3) Think harder. Think abstract. Please.

Biofuels - the new green house gas...
 

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle2507851.ece

~~ snerk ~~

Forget global warming for the moment, because it's like the 2nd amendment,
which will also be debated endlessly.

Agreed. But would it not be good if Hudson Bay had 30lb Kings and Coho?

Let's say there was really a god, and one day, she reaches down, picks up
the White House and the Kremlin, and yells their occupants "OK you
knuckleheads - listen up. All your geological predictions are wrong. You
have exactly 5 years worth of oil left, and don't doubt me on this. I'm
already in a mood. I'm gonna put your buildings back now, and I'm warning
you - don't start making stupid speeches (as usual) until you've thought
this over. It should take you about a day. Here's a hint that'll give you
a headache: Weight Watchers."

First flaw is a woman would never give you 5 years let alone keep the mood
for that long.

Then, she puts the White House in Moscow and the Kremlin in Washington
(making landscapers cringe because the feng shui is all wrong).

I wonder what would happen.

Must be a blonde.

Biofuels - the new green house gas...
 

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 23:18:09 -0400, gfretwell wrote:


Seriously Thomas Friedman summed it up best the other night on CSpan.
The contribution of pollution from the developing world will dwarf what
we will produce in the next 100 years, even if we do nothing and
anything we really can do will be insignificant. It is going to get
hotter, plan on that. It is the result of an industrial society and the
3d world will become more industrialized, whether we like it or not.
They will take the cheapest path. That is not even oil, it is coal.
Enviromnentalism is a rich man's folly. Poor people just want it now,
however they can get it.

Yeah, but, is it environmentalism that is the folly, or is it the resource intensive consumer paradigm? On
this increasingly crowded planet, sustainability should have a place.

Biofuels - the new green house gas...
 

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 14:33:08 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

Let's say there was really a god, and one day, she reaches down, picks up
the White House and the Kremlin, and yells their occupants "OK you
knuckleheads - listen up. All your geological predictions are wrong. You
have exactly 5 years worth of oil left, and don't doubt me on this. I'm
already in a mood. I'm gonna put your buildings back now, and I'm warning
you - don't start making stupid speeches (as usual) until you've thought
this over. It should take you about a day. Here's a hint that'll give you
a
headache: Weight Watchers."

Then, she puts the White House in Moscow and the Kremlin in Washington
(making landscapers cringe because the feng shui is all wrong).

I wonder what would happen.


In about 10 hours the acid would wear off and you would say "what a
trip"

Seriously Thomas Friedman summed it up best the other night on CSpan.
The contribution of pollution from the developing world will dwarf
what we will produce in the next 100 years, even if we do nothing and
anything we really can do will be insignificant.
It is going to get hotter, plan on that. It is the result of an
industrial society and the 3d world will become more industrialized,
whether we like it or not. They will take the cheapest path. That is
not even oil, it is coal.
Enviromnentalism is a rich man's folly. Poor people just want it now,
however they can get it.


I was sort of wondering if anyone might learn to walk, or maybe take buses,
even if it meant having to sit next to "those kinds of people", as a
neighbor of mine once said.

Biofuels - the new green house gas...
 

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 23:18:09 -0400, gfretwell wrote:


Seriously Thomas Friedman summed it up best the other night on CSpan.
The contribution of pollution from the developing world will dwarf what
we will produce in the next 100 years, even if we do nothing and
anything we really can do will be insignificant. It is going to get
hotter, plan on that. It is the result of an industrial society and the
3d world will become more industrialized, whether we like it or not.
They will take the cheapest path. That is not even oil, it is coal.
Enviromnentalism is a rich man's folly. Poor people just want it now,
however they can get it.

Yeah, but, is it environmentalism that is the folly, or is it the resource
intensive consumer paradigm? On
this increasingly crowded planet, sustainability should have a place.

Apparently, sustainability is so far from the public's psyche that it
doesn't even come to mind in a hypothetical discussion. It's as if someone
suggested putting the grandkids on the BBQ - totally alien idea.

Biofuels - the new green house gas...
 

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 10:54:04 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

I was sort of wondering if anyone might learn to walk, or maybe take
buses,
even if it meant having to sit next to "those kinds of people", as a
neighbor of mine once said.

The problem is not the Americans, it is a billion Chinese who all want
a car. They won't be buying a Prius. China already showed us how they
feel about the Montreal protocol when they said they were making CFC
refrigerators for their people.


I guess you're right. We're blameless. It's always been that way.

Biofuels - the new green house gas...
 

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 15:48:15 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 10:54:04 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

I was sort of wondering if anyone might learn to walk, or maybe take
buses,
even if it meant having to sit next to "those kinds of people", as a
neighbor of mine once said.

The problem is not the Americans, it is a billion Chinese who all want
a car. They won't be buying a Prius. China already showed us how they
feel about the Montreal protocol when they said they were making CFC
refrigerators for their people.


I guess you're right. We're blameless. It's always been that way.


We are not blameless. It is the consumer lifestyle that we created and
the rest of the world covets that is to blame.


I have a question for you. Car #1 gets 17 mpg. Car #2 gets 25 mpg. In
percentage terms, how much more mileage does car #2 get?

Biofuels - the new green house gas...
 

On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 08:05:08 -0000, thunder
wrote:

Yeah, but, is it environmentalism that is the folly, or is it the resource
intensive consumer paradigm? On this increasingly crowded planet,
sustainability should have a place.

I hear this argument all the time and I can't say that I agree.

To tell the truth, the intensive consumer IS the driver of economics
and has been since, well, forever. It's how progress is measured.

To my way of thinking, we are limiting ourselves to this thought that
nothing can ever be replaced, but that's just not true.

Economies ran on human power, animal power, water power, steam power
and now oil power. The next big thing hasn't been developed yet, but
it will and life will go on.

Biofuels - the new green house gas...
 

On Sep 24, 6:56?pm, wrote:
On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 21:06:23 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing





wrote:
On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 08:05:08 -0000, thunder
wrote:

Yeah, but, is it environmentalism that is the folly, or is it the resource
intensive consumer paradigm? On this increasingly crowded planet,
sustainability should have a place.

I hear this argument all the time and I can't say that I agree.

To tell the truth, the intensive consumer IS the driver of economics
and has been since, well, forever. It's how progress is measured.

To my way of thinking, we are limiting ourselves to this thought that
nothing can ever be replaced, but that's just not true.

Economies ran on human power, animal power, water power, steam power
and now oil power. The next big thing hasn't been developed yet, but
it will and life will go on.

I agree, it is arrogant of man to think the world will stay the same,
just because we like it like it is now. I'm sure the indians think all
of our development here was simply destroying the planet.


I was going to stay out of this one, but here's a weird segue.
The latest acheological finds throughout much of the western
hemisphere indicate that indigenous, pre-Columbian populations
*intensively* managed resources and the environment. And populations
were many, many, times larger than even the most optimistic estimates
the 20th Century. The European colonists that arrived in the early
1600's typically reported east coast forests without a lot of
underbrush, often describing the forests as like an English park. The
natives had learned to use fire to remove a lot of the underbrush.
When woods that are a few hundred years old are currently removed in
the New England states people are discovering native maize and pumpkin
mounds where agriculture was not previously known to exist.
Very few elk bones are found in middens (garbage mounds) of
archeologically examined native settlements that existed in the 16th
and 17th century, but in the 18th and 19th century the humber of elk
bones rose dramatically. Same with bison, there were more bison in the
American midwest in the 1800's than in the 1600's.

What happened?

Smallpox and other European diseases so decimated the natives that
entire cultures disappeared. Forests that had been intesively managed
were allowed to grow wild again, and filled up with underbrush before
the advance of white settlement. Grazing animals that had been kept in
check by large native populations, such as elk and bison, multiplied
at previously unheard of rates as their most dangerous predator, man,
temporarily declined.

Recommended reading: "1491" by Charles C. Mann
(not known to be a relative of any previous poster to rec.boats by
that name)

Lessons to be learned: Sometimes we change the environment
unwittingly (by introducing a disease, etc). And, man has always
intensively managed and utilized his environment, even the so-called
"primitives".






The climate is going to change. Get used to it. Buy some waterfront
property in Arizona and your kids will thank you.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Biofuels - the new green house gas...
 

On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 21:06:23 +0000, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 08:05:08 -0000, thunder
wrote:

Yeah, but, is it environmentalism that is the folly, or is it the
resource intensive consumer paradigm? On this increasingly crowded
planet, sustainability should have a place.

I hear this argument all the time and I can't say that I agree.

To tell the truth, the intensive consumer IS the driver of economics and
has been since, well, forever. It's how progress is measured.

To my way of thinking, we are limiting ourselves to this thought that
nothing can ever be replaced, but that's just not true.

Economies ran on human power, animal power, water power, steam power and
now oil power. The next big thing hasn't been developed yet, but it
will and life will go on.

Of course life will go on, and man will most likely have a place, but the transition may not be pretty. It
would seem prudent to develop the "next big thing" before exhausting what we have now. This world,
and it's resources, are finite.