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Piscatorial genocide...
Trout Rule - Pike Drool?
What the hell are these people thinking? Piscatorial genocide? All they have to do is offer free fishing licenses to folks from fly-over country - like Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, N/S Dakota, Michigan and a free trip to the lake for a week's fishing. I guarentee you there won't be any pike left. :) -------------- The New York Times - 09/12/07 Jim Wilson/The New York Times PORTOLA, Calif., Sept. 11 — The poison didn’t work, and neither did the hook and bobber. The electrical probes were somewhat effective, but don’t even ask about the explosives. In support of the state’s eradication effort, residents in the Lake Davis area recently burned a 13-foot-long effigy of the pesky northern pike, made of papier-mâché with nails for teeth. For the last decade, the state of California has waged a Sisyphean battle against the northern pike, a fish and a voracious eating machine. In the mid-1990s, when pike were first found in Lake Davis, a Sierra Nevada reservoir about four miles north of here, the discovery set off a panic over the potential impact on the local trout-fishing and tourist industries as well as the possibility of the fish migrating to fragile ecosystems downstream. Since then, millions of dollars and thousands of man-hours have been spent trying to spike the pike. But while the methods, including poison, electro-fishing, explosives and decidedly low-tech nets, have varied, the results have remained the same. “We’ve taken 65,000 pike out of the lake,” said Steve Martarano, a spokesman for the State Department of Fish and Game. “And we haven’t made a dent.” But like Captain Ahab or perhaps Wile E. Coyote, the state has not let a little adversity stop it. On Monday, more than 500 fish and game personnel began a last-ditch, $16 million effort to rid the lake of pike, the most expensive ever undertaken against an “invasive species” in California. “This is a top-of-the-line predator,” said Ed Pert, the project manager. “If we don’t get it this time, we may need to rethink things.” The lake was closed after Labor Day to prepare for the watery assault. The plan is simple: poison the fish with 17,000 gallons of rotenone, a commonly used pesticide that is absorbed through the gills and blocks the ability to process oxygen. Rotenone is widely considered safe for mammals and other nongilled animals, though some concerns have been raised about links to Parkinson’s disease and some types of cancer. But Gerald Sipe, the director of environmental health for the Plumas County Public Health Agency, said his office had determined that the treatment plan would not adversely affect the public. It is not the first time the state has used rotenone in Lake Davis. In 1997, officials used a powdered form of the poison, which fouled the lake, Portola’s longtime water supply. (The town now primarily draws its water from wells.) The state later approved a $9.2 million settlement with the city and the county for businesses, homeowners and local residents. And, two years later, the pike were back. This time, though, the state is using a milky liquid version of rotenone, and is focusing on the streams and tributaries that lead into Lake Davis, a 4,000-acre artificial reservoir about 60 miles north of Lake Tahoe. On Monday, about 60 workers staffed “drip stations” in creeks and streams while others sprayed ponds and other still waters with poison from plastic backpack tanks. The state has also begun an extensive education effort. On Monday, two dozen reporters and television crews crowded around a rocky streambed as Stafford Lehr, a fishery biologist, described his pike-killing method. “These fish will be exposed to the product for eight hours,” said Mr. Lehr, who wore a cowboy hat, goggles and white coveralls. “Which is more than enough time to kill these individuals.” No one knows exactly how many of “these individuals” live in Lake Davis, though estimates run anywhere from the tens of thousands to the hundreds of thousands. Nor does anyone know where the pike came from, though Mr. Martarano says they may have been introduced by sport fishermen who prize its fight or even “eco-terrorists” who might have introduced the pike “just to cause trouble.” Whatever the cause, the pike is not a friendly newcomer to any ecosystem. A slender, razor-toothed hunter that can grow to more than three feet long, the pike has been known to devour anything it can get its pointed maw around, including frogs, waterfowl and — legend has it — small dogs. While not a flashy menu topper like tilapia or trout, pike is edible, even glorified by some palates, though its bones make for challenging chewing. But in California, it is illegal to possess, dead or alive, Mr. Martarano said. State officials are particularly concerned that the pike might escape to the Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta, where it could feast on other fish, including valuable salmon and threatened species like the delta smelt. Signs on the lake recommend cutting the head off any pike caught and tossing the fish back in the water, apparently to show the other pike that human beings mean business. On Monday, at least, the poison seemed to be working. Within a few hours, fingerlings were starting to turn belly-up downstream, with reports on Tuesday of bigger pike giving up the ghost. The body of the lake will be treated in late September. After the poisoning is complete — and all the dead fish are scooped out of the water — the lake will be tested for toxicity, and will remain closed for two months, Mr. Martarano said. After that, restocking will begin, with a goal of one million trout in Lake Davis by 2010. Not every effort has been as encouraging. In March 2003, the department used underwater detonation cord to try to blow up the pike. A grand total of four pike were killed. Jim Murphy, the city manager in Portola, a railroad town of 2,300 people along the Feather River, said he was guardedly optimistic about the new plans. “I don’t think any of us want or encourage a chemical being put in our drinking water or our recreational lake,” he said. “But we better understand the issues and need now.” That sentiment was echoed by Sara Bensinger, who runs the Grizzly Country Store, a fishing tackle and potato chip outlet on the lake’s southern shore. Ms. Bensinger said her business had been badly hurt by the pike problem, and the bad press that followed. On Sept. 1, she and about 200 other locals gathered to celebrate the beginning of the eradication effort by burning of a 13-foot-long papier-mâché pike, complete with nails for teeth. “They’re going to get it right this time,” she said. “And then we’re going to start over.” |
Piscatorial genocide...
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
But like Captain Ahab or perhaps Wile E. Coyote, the state has not let a little adversity stop it. This is the best line in the article. |
Piscatorial genocide...
On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 07:15:01 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote: Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: But like Captain Ahab or perhaps Wile E. Coyote, the state has not let a little adversity stop it. This is the best line in the article. And here's the real reason for the poisoning. "After the poisoning is complete — and all the dead fish are scooped out of the water — the lake will be tested for toxicity, and will remain closed for two months, Mr. Martarano said. After that, restocking will begin, with a goal of one million trout in Lake Davis by 2010." I've fired off a letter to Trout Unlimited to see if they are involved with this in any way. I give them a fair amount of money every year and this better not have been on the national agenda. |
Piscatorial genocide...
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 07:15:01 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote: Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: But like Captain Ahab or perhaps Wile E. Coyote, the state has not let a little adversity stop it. This is the best line in the article. And here's the real reason for the poisoning. "After the poisoning is complete — and all the dead fish are scooped out of the water — the lake will be tested for toxicity, and will remain closed for two months, Mr. Martarano said. After that, restocking will begin, with a goal of one million trout in Lake Davis by 2010." I've fired off a letter to Trout Unlimited to see if they are involved with this in any way. I give them a fair amount of money every year and this better not have been on the national agenda. I can understand their concern about an invasive fish, upsetting the ecosystem, but they really do seem like Wile E.Coyote. I did check up on Rotenone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotenone. I don't believe I would get back in the lake for a LONG time. |
Piscatorial genocide...
On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 07:28:19 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote: I can understand their concern about an invasive fish, upsetting the ecosystem, but they really do seem like Wile E.Coyote. Elmer Fudd would have known how to deal with this "wascally pike" problem. |
Piscatorial genocide...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 07:28:19 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote: I can understand their concern about an invasive fish, upsetting the ecosystem, but they really do seem like Wile E.Coyote. Elmer Fudd would have known how to deal with this "wascally pike" problem. I wonder if they ever thought about a tactical nuclear bomb? |
Piscatorial genocide...
On Sep 12, 7:19 am, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote: I've fired off a letter to Trout Unlimited to see if they are involved with this in any way. I give them a fair amount of money every year and this better not have been on the national agenda. What would you do about the situation? Would you just let nature do it's thing? |
Piscatorial genocide...
"Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in message
... Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 07:15:01 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote: Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: But like Captain Ahab or perhaps Wile E. Coyote, the state has not let a little adversity stop it. This is the best line in the article. And here's the real reason for the poisoning. "After the poisoning is complete — and all the dead fish are scooped out of the water — the lake will be tested for toxicity, and will remain closed for two months, Mr. Martarano said. After that, restocking will begin, with a goal of one million trout in Lake Davis by 2010." I've fired off a letter to Trout Unlimited to see if they are involved with this in any way. I give them a fair amount of money every year and this better not have been on the national agenda. I can understand their concern about an invasive fish, upsetting the ecosystem, but they really do seem like Wile E.Coyote. I did check up on Rotenone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotenone. I don't believe I would get back in the lake for a LONG time. Yeah, but so many morons have been hypnotized (or bribed) by the chemical industry. I'm sure the state will be lying to people about the safety of rotenone as soon as the lake is opened. |
Piscatorial genocide...
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Piscatorial genocide...
wrote in message
ups.com... On Sep 12, 7:19 am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: I've fired off a letter to Trout Unlimited to see if they are involved with this in any way. I give them a fair amount of money every year and this better not have been on the national agenda. What would you do about the situation? Would you just let nature do it's thing? The answer is obvious. Hire the fishing equivalent of the Terminator: A lady I know who catches more damned pike than I've ever seen, and usually very large fish, and almost always with an ultralight and 4 lb test, no leader. Always with this lure, always that color, sometimes different sizes depending on wind and hunches: http://www.lurenet.com/productdetail.aspx?id=B08AXC5 Her record is 14 in one day. She was hoping for bass. She probably would've caught more, but we got hungry and had to find dinner. I'll send her the article. |
Piscatorial genocide...
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 15:59:08 -0000, wrote: On Sep 12, 7:19 am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: I've fired off a letter to Trout Unlimited to see if they are involved with this in any way. I give them a fair amount of money every year and this better not have been on the national agenda. What would you do about the situation? Would you just let nature do it's thing? Yes. Killing all the pike is over...er...kill. :) On top of it, they are being really stupid about it. I mean, poison? We've become our own eco-terrorists because of trout fishermen. Damn trout fishermen. I guess you're not the piker I thought you were.... :{ |
Piscatorial genocide...
On Sep 12, 12:05 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
wrote in message ups.com... On Sep 12, 7:19 am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: I've fired off a letter to Trout Unlimited to see if they are involved with this in any way. I give them a fair amount of money every year and this better not have been on the national agenda. What would you do about the situation? Would you just let nature do it's thing? The answer is obvious. Hire the fishing equivalent of the Terminator: A lady I know who catches more damned pike than I've ever seen, and usually very large fish, and almost always with an ultralight and 4 lb test, no leader. Always with this lure, always that color, sometimes different sizes depending on wind and hunches: http://www.lurenet.com/productdetail.aspx?id=B08AXC5 Her record is 14 in one day. She was hoping for bass. She probably would've caught more, but we got hungry and had to find dinner. I'll send her the article. I have seen folks in my time who only use rooster tails, only use bass assasins (sp?), only use rubber, only use this or that. They all catch fish, I still think it depends more on how you present a bait to the fish, as opposed to what bait it is. |
Piscatorial genocide...
wrote in message
ups.com... On Sep 12, 12:05 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: wrote in message ups.com... On Sep 12, 7:19 am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: I've fired off a letter to Trout Unlimited to see if they are involved with this in any way. I give them a fair amount of money every year and this better not have been on the national agenda. What would you do about the situation? Would you just let nature do it's thing? The answer is obvious. Hire the fishing equivalent of the Terminator: A lady I know who catches more damned pike than I've ever seen, and usually very large fish, and almost always with an ultralight and 4 lb test, no leader. Always with this lure, always that color, sometimes different sizes depending on wind and hunches: http://www.lurenet.com/productdetail.aspx?id=B08AXC5 Her record is 14 in one day. She was hoping for bass. She probably would've caught more, but we got hungry and had to find dinner. I'll send her the article. I have seen folks in my time who only use rooster tails, only use bass assasins (sp?), only use rubber, only use this or that. They all catch fish, I still think it depends more on how you present a bait to the fish, as opposed to what bait it is. Or something. |
Piscatorial genocide...
On Sep 12, 12:02 pm, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote: On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 15:59:08 -0000, wrote: On Sep 12, 7:19 am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: I've fired off a letter to Trout Unlimited to see if they are involved with this in any way. I give them a fair amount of money every year and this better not have been on the national agenda. What would you do about the situation? Would you just let nature do it's thing? Yes. Killing all the pike is over...er...kill. :) On top of it, they are being really stupid about it. I mean, poison? We've become our own eco-terrorists because of trout fishermen. Damn trout fishermen. Hey, I represent that statement;) What's it lookin' like Captain? Light winds from the north, sunny skies, predicted. High tides around 11-12 depending on location?? |
Piscatorial genocide...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 07:28:19 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote: I can understand their concern about an invasive fish, upsetting the ecosystem, but they really do seem like Wile E.Coyote. Elmer Fudd would have known how to deal with this "wascally pike" problem. We were freaking out about the Snake Head fish here in the DC Area a couple of years ago but now that they have established themselves in the Potomac River and many ponds and lakes in the area without eating all of the children nobody cares about them. |
Piscatorial genocide...
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Piscatorial genocide...
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 07:15:01 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote: Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: But like Captain Ahab or perhaps Wile E. Coyote, the state has not let a little adversity stop it. This is the best line in the article. And here's the real reason for the poisoning. "After the poisoning is complete - and all the dead fish are scooped out of the water - the lake will be tested for toxicity, and will remain closed for two months, Mr. Martarano said. After that, restocking will begin, with a goal of one million trout in Lake Davis by 2010." I've fired off a letter to Trout Unlimited to see if they are involved with this in any way. I give them a fair amount of money every year and this better not have been on the national agenda. We tried to kill off the Northern Pike a few years ago, and either did not dump enough poison into the lake or go far enough up the feeder streams, or some asshole restocked the lake with NP. The danger is if they get out of the lake, and they have an electrical fence and chooper upper barrier, the pike get into the Sacramento River system and decimate the salmon runs. Costing the state billions of bucks. There is at least one river system in Alaska where some selfish ******* stocked the pike. There are no salmon runs in the rivers anymore. You want to fish for pike, go where they are native. Lake Davis was a trophy trout lake for many years until the pike were introduced. The region survives on fishing tourism. So the state has to restock the lake after killing all the fish. Has nothing to do with just having trout in there. Is the danger of a collapse of the salmon fishery in California. |
Piscatorial genocide...
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in message ... Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 07:15:01 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote: Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: But like Captain Ahab or perhaps Wile E. Coyote, the state has not let a little adversity stop it. This is the best line in the article. And here's the real reason for the poisoning. "After the poisoning is complete - and all the dead fish are scooped out of the water - the lake will be tested for toxicity, and will remain closed for two months, Mr. Martarano said. After that, restocking will begin, with a goal of one million trout in Lake Davis by 2010." I've fired off a letter to Trout Unlimited to see if they are involved with this in any way. I give them a fair amount of money every year and this better not have been on the national agenda. I can understand their concern about an invasive fish, upsetting the ecosystem, but they really do seem like Wile E.Coyote. I did check up on Rotenone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotenone. I don't believe I would get back in the lake for a LONG time. Yeah, but so many morons have been hypnotized (or bribed) by the chemical industry. I'm sure the state will be lying to people about the safety of rotenone as soon as the lake is opened. Is a short lived poison only toxic to gilled animals. Plus they Rotenoned the lake a couple of years ago. Seems as if we did not create any Blobs. |
Piscatorial genocide...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
... "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in message ... Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 07:15:01 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote: Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: But like Captain Ahab or perhaps Wile E. Coyote, the state has not let a little adversity stop it. This is the best line in the article. And here's the real reason for the poisoning. "After the poisoning is complete - and all the dead fish are scooped out of the water - the lake will be tested for toxicity, and will remain closed for two months, Mr. Martarano said. After that, restocking will begin, with a goal of one million trout in Lake Davis by 2010." I've fired off a letter to Trout Unlimited to see if they are involved with this in any way. I give them a fair amount of money every year and this better not have been on the national agenda. I can understand their concern about an invasive fish, upsetting the ecosystem, but they really do seem like Wile E.Coyote. I did check up on Rotenone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotenone. I don't believe I would get back in the lake for a LONG time. Yeah, but so many morons have been hypnotized (or bribed) by the chemical industry. I'm sure the state will be lying to people about the safety of rotenone as soon as the lake is opened. Is a short lived poison only toxic to gilled animals. Plus they Rotenoned the lake a couple of years ago. Seems as if we did not create any Blobs. Yet. Since chemicals like that have not and cannot be PROPERLY tested on humans, we will NEVER know if they are safe. According to the chemical industry, animal tests are not a valid method for predicting the effects on humans, so that argument is no longer permissible. |
Piscatorial genocide...
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "Calif Bill" wrote in message ... "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in message ... Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 07:15:01 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote: Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: But like Captain Ahab or perhaps Wile E. Coyote, the state has not let a little adversity stop it. This is the best line in the article. And here's the real reason for the poisoning. "After the poisoning is complete - and all the dead fish are scooped out of the water - the lake will be tested for toxicity, and will remain closed for two months, Mr. Martarano said. After that, restocking will begin, with a goal of one million trout in Lake Davis by 2010." I've fired off a letter to Trout Unlimited to see if they are involved with this in any way. I give them a fair amount of money every year and this better not have been on the national agenda. I can understand their concern about an invasive fish, upsetting the ecosystem, but they really do seem like Wile E.Coyote. I did check up on Rotenone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotenone. I don't believe I would get back in the lake for a LONG time. Yeah, but so many morons have been hypnotized (or bribed) by the chemical industry. I'm sure the state will be lying to people about the safety of rotenone as soon as the lake is opened. Is a short lived poison only toxic to gilled animals. Plus they Rotenoned the lake a couple of years ago. Seems as if we did not create any Blobs. Yet. Since chemicals like that have not and cannot be PROPERLY tested on humans, we will NEVER know if they are safe. According to the chemical industry, animal tests are not a valid method for predicting the effects on humans, so that argument is no longer permissible. Sure it is. You may not like it. But is a permissible argument. And since it has been used lots of places without any noticable impact on humans since, we can assume it is not that affecting to humans. We live with a lot more chemicals that are a lot worse for us and we are required to use them. Where are your arguments against their use? For one example is the fire protectants that all childrens pajamas and bedding are required to use. Blood analysis of children show up frightening amounts of these chemicals, but no rotenone. |
Piscatorial genocide...
On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 19:48:53 -0400, JimH wrote:
I have caught muskie (Chautaugua Lake) and walleye and hope to some day land a northern pike! Catching muskie but not pike, seems surprising. I know a few anglers that target muskie exclusively and are happy to catch a couple per year. Around here, they are called the fish of a thousand casts. I've never caught one myself, but have seen a few veritable monsters in the Delaware River. Northern Pike are in your area. http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Home/spec...ke/tabid/6703/ Default.aspx |
Piscatorial genocide...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
... "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "Calif Bill" wrote in message ... "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in message ... Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 07:15:01 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote: Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: But like Captain Ahab or perhaps Wile E. Coyote, the state has not let a little adversity stop it. This is the best line in the article. And here's the real reason for the poisoning. "After the poisoning is complete - and all the dead fish are scooped out of the water - the lake will be tested for toxicity, and will remain closed for two months, Mr. Martarano said. After that, restocking will begin, with a goal of one million trout in Lake Davis by 2010." I've fired off a letter to Trout Unlimited to see if they are involved with this in any way. I give them a fair amount of money every year and this better not have been on the national agenda. I can understand their concern about an invasive fish, upsetting the ecosystem, but they really do seem like Wile E.Coyote. I did check up on Rotenone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotenone. I don't believe I would get back in the lake for a LONG time. Yeah, but so many morons have been hypnotized (or bribed) by the chemical industry. I'm sure the state will be lying to people about the safety of rotenone as soon as the lake is opened. Is a short lived poison only toxic to gilled animals. Plus they Rotenoned the lake a couple of years ago. Seems as if we did not create any Blobs. Yet. Since chemicals like that have not and cannot be PROPERLY tested on humans, we will NEVER know if they are safe. According to the chemical industry, animal tests are not a valid method for predicting the effects on humans, so that argument is no longer permissible. Sure it is. You may not like it. But is a permissible argument. And since it has been used lots of places without any noticable impact on humans since, we can assume it is not that affecting to humans. We live with a lot more chemicals that are a lot worse for us and we are required to use them. Where are your arguments against their use? In a laboratory, a scientist can exercise quite a bit of control to be sure a rat is not being exposed to dioxin, so when they are testing the toxicity of some other thing, they know it wasn't dioxin that caused a problem. It's practically impossible to set up the same situation for human testing, which is why any scientist worth his salt will tell you it's futile. As far as animal tests, the antics surrounding their validity have been going on since the late 1960s. Environmental groups would point to tests which indicated a certain chemical caused cancer in rats, and companies like Dow would respons by saying animals react differently than humans, so it's risky to extrapolate from those results. But, when convenient, they would point to animal tests which did NOT result in illness, and say those WERE valid results. Then, there's the issue of children's exposure. You know why that's a whole different thing, right? For one example is the fire protectants that all childrens pajamas and bedding are required to use. Blood analysis of children show up frightening amounts of these chemicals, but no rotenone. Silly. Were the pajamas being tested for rotenone? |
Piscatorial genocide...
On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 20:38:09 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote: Is the danger of a collapse of the salmon fishery in California. Bull****. |
Piscatorial genocide...
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
... On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 20:38:09 -0700, "Calif Bill" wrote: Is the danger of a collapse of the salmon fishery in California. Bull****. Why? |
Piscatorial genocide...
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 20:38:09 -0700, "Calif Bill" wrote: Is the danger of a collapse of the salmon fishery in California. Bull****. Tom, Invasive specis can cause major damage to the local ecosystem, ie rabbits in Australia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbits_in_Australia Africanized Bees in the Americas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africanized_bee and too many others to mention. Why don't you believe Pike could damage the California fisheries? |
Piscatorial genocide...
On Sep 12, 7:48 pm, "JimH" ask wrote:
I have caught muskie (Chautaugua Lake) and walleye and hope to some day land a northern pike! Great fish, hit like freight trains, fight like hell... |
Piscatorial genocide...
On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 16:22:39 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote: Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 20:38:09 -0700, "Calif Bill" wrote: Is the danger of a collapse of the salmon fishery in California. Bull****. Tom, Invasive specis can cause major damage to the local ecosystem, ie rabbits in Australia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbits_in_Australia Africanized Bees in the Americas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africanized_bee and too many others to mention. Why don't you believe Pike could damage the California fisheries? They used the same argument in Maine on some of the rivers in the Allagash - OH MY GOD THE TROUT WILL DISAPPEAR!!! THE SALMON FISHERY WILL BE DESTRYOED!!! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!! Um...no? Didn't happen. I would also point out that Bees and Australian rabbits AREN'T PIKE!! |
Piscatorial genocide...
On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 19:39:26 -0400, JimH wrote:
Let nature take it's course with the pike in CA.........Mother Nature and the natural food chain a way of working things out. ;-) But mother nature didn't take it's course. Man was involved in putting the pike there. History is full of invasive species wreaking havoc. Seen any American Chestnut trees lately? Elm trees? Estimated damage and control cost of invasive species in the US amount to more than $138 billion annually. |
Piscatorial genocide...
On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 00:13:39 -0000, thunder
wrote: On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 19:39:26 -0400, JimH wrote: Let nature take it's course with the pike in CA.........Mother Nature and the natural food chain a way of working things out. ;-) But mother nature didn't take it's course. Man was involved in putting the pike there. History is full of invasive species wreaking havoc. Seen any American Chestnut trees lately? Elm trees? Estimated damage and control cost of invasive species in the US amount to more than $138 billion annually. I don't disagree. However, in most cases, where the pike is, a stable eco-system is very quickly established. Quaddick Res in Thompson is a perfect example. For years, the system produced undersized everything from bass to trout to panfish - just horrible. Somebody introduced some pike and HOLY S%%T the world is coming to an end!!! Well, it's healthy today - ten years later. Bigger, healthier bass, panfish, pickeral and trout and the pike fishing is unbelievable for a smallish impoundment. It went so well, that the state is considering introducing pike to several smaller ponds that have fresh water springs in the area including mine. I won't turn them down. |
Piscatorial genocide...
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
... On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 16:22:39 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote: Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 20:38:09 -0700, "Calif Bill" wrote: Is the danger of a collapse of the salmon fishery in California. Bull****. Tom, Invasive specis can cause major damage to the local ecosystem, ie rabbits in Australia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbits_in_Australia Africanized Bees in the Americas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africanized_bee and too many others to mention. Why don't you believe Pike could damage the California fisheries? They used the same argument in Maine on some of the rivers in the Allagash - OH MY GOD THE TROUT WILL DISAPPEAR!!! THE SALMON FISHERY WILL BE DESTRYOED!!! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!! Um...no? Didn't happen. What species was theoretically threatening salmon in Maine? Also pike? |
Piscatorial genocide...
On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 00:50:04 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 16:22:39 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote: Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 20:38:09 -0700, "Calif Bill" wrote: Is the danger of a collapse of the salmon fishery in California. Bull****. Tom, Invasive specis can cause major damage to the local ecosystem, ie rabbits in Australia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbits_in_Australia Africanized Bees in the Americas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africanized_bee and too many others to mention. Why don't you believe Pike could damage the California fisheries? They used the same argument in Maine on some of the rivers in the Allagash - OH MY GOD THE TROUT WILL DISAPPEAR!!! THE SALMON FISHERY WILL BE DESTRYOED!!! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!! Um...no? Didn't happen. What species was theoretically threatening salmon in Maine? Also pike? Pike and muskie. |
Piscatorial genocide...
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
... On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 00:50:04 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message . .. On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 16:22:39 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote: Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 20:38:09 -0700, "Calif Bill" wrote: Is the danger of a collapse of the salmon fishery in California. Bull****. Tom, Invasive specis can cause major damage to the local ecosystem, ie rabbits in Australia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbits_in_Australia Africanized Bees in the Americas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africanized_bee and too many others to mention. Why don't you believe Pike could damage the California fisheries? They used the same argument in Maine on some of the rivers in the Allagash - OH MY GOD THE TROUT WILL DISAPPEAR!!! THE SALMON FISHERY WILL BE DESTRYOED!!! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!! Um...no? Didn't happen. What species was theoretically threatening salmon in Maine? Also pike? Pike and muskie. I seem to recall a situation on one of the Finger Lakes where it was feared that pike would wipe out the smallmouth. In fact, they thinned the herd, which reduced food competition, and the bass got bigger blah blah blah.... You know all this already. |
Piscatorial genocide...
I would also point out that Bees and Australian rabbits AREN'T PIKE!!
Awww crud. All this time I thought I was using the wrong bait... :-) --Mike "Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 16:22:39 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote: Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 20:38:09 -0700, "Calif Bill" wrote: Is the danger of a collapse of the salmon fishery in California. Bull****. Tom, Invasive specis can cause major damage to the local ecosystem, ie rabbits in Australia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbits_in_Australia Africanized Bees in the Americas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africanized_bee and too many others to mention. Why don't you believe Pike could damage the California fisheries? They used the same argument in Maine on some of the rivers in the Allagash - OH MY GOD THE TROUT WILL DISAPPEAR!!! THE SALMON FISHERY WILL BE DESTRYOED!!! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!! Um...no? Didn't happen. I would also point out that Bees and Australian rabbits AREN'T PIKE!! |
Piscatorial genocide...
Mike wrote:
I would also point out that Bees and Australian rabbits AREN'T PIKE!! Awww crud. All this time I thought I was using the wrong bait... :-) LOL |
Piscatorial genocide...
On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 00:26:12 +0000, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
Well, it's healthy today - ten years later. Bigger, healthier bass, panfish, pickeral and trout and the pike fishing is unbelievable for a smallish impoundment. It went so well, that the state is considering introducing pike to several smaller ponds that have fresh water springs in the area including mine. I'd point out that most of the fish you are talking about have evolved with the Northern Pike, as both are native in this area. That is not the case with California. I'm not saying it wouldn't improve the fishing, but you are betting the ranch. Once established, it's impossible to put that genie back in the bottle. I can understand California's desire to remove the pike while it can. |
Piscatorial genocide...
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "Calif Bill" wrote in message ... "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "Calif Bill" wrote in message ... "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in message ... Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 07:15:01 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote: Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: But like Captain Ahab or perhaps Wile E. Coyote, the state has not let a little adversity stop it. This is the best line in the article. And here's the real reason for the poisoning. "After the poisoning is complete - and all the dead fish are scooped out of the water - the lake will be tested for toxicity, and will remain closed for two months, Mr. Martarano said. After that, restocking will begin, with a goal of one million trout in Lake Davis by 2010." I've fired off a letter to Trout Unlimited to see if they are involved with this in any way. I give them a fair amount of money every year and this better not have been on the national agenda. I can understand their concern about an invasive fish, upsetting the ecosystem, but they really do seem like Wile E.Coyote. I did check up on Rotenone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotenone. I don't believe I would get back in the lake for a LONG time. Yeah, but so many morons have been hypnotized (or bribed) by the chemical industry. I'm sure the state will be lying to people about the safety of rotenone as soon as the lake is opened. Is a short lived poison only toxic to gilled animals. Plus they Rotenoned the lake a couple of years ago. Seems as if we did not create any Blobs. Yet. Since chemicals like that have not and cannot be PROPERLY tested on humans, we will NEVER know if they are safe. According to the chemical industry, animal tests are not a valid method for predicting the effects on humans, so that argument is no longer permissible. Sure it is. You may not like it. But is a permissible argument. And since it has been used lots of places without any noticable impact on humans since, we can assume it is not that affecting to humans. We live with a lot more chemicals that are a lot worse for us and we are required to use them. Where are your arguments against their use? In a laboratory, a scientist can exercise quite a bit of control to be sure a rat is not being exposed to dioxin, so when they are testing the toxicity of some other thing, they know it wasn't dioxin that caused a problem. It's practically impossible to set up the same situation for human testing, which is why any scientist worth his salt will tell you it's futile. As far as animal tests, the antics surrounding their validity have been going on since the late 1960s. Environmental groups would point to tests which indicated a certain chemical caused cancer in rats, and companies like Dow would respons by saying animals react differently than humans, so it's risky to extrapolate from those results. But, when convenient, they would point to animal tests which did NOT result in illness, and say those WERE valid results. Then, there's the issue of children's exposure. You know why that's a whole different thing, right? For one example is the fire protectants that all childrens pajamas and bedding are required to use. Blood analysis of children show up frightening amounts of these chemicals, but no rotenone. Silly. Were the pajamas being tested for rotenone? You are an idiot. Rant about poisoning one lake with a killer of gilled animals, and not worry about all the chemicals your children are exposed to daily. Sad. |
Piscatorial genocide...
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 20:38:09 -0700, "Calif Bill" wrote: Is the danger of a collapse of the salmon fishery in California. Bull****. Why? Someone planted NP in a river system in Alaska. The salmon runs were decimated. Enough knowledge from that incident to extrapolate it to our salmon river systems. May not happen, but several billion dollars in the economy is enough to accept the worse case scenario. |
Piscatorial genocide...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
... "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "Calif Bill" wrote in message ... "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "Calif Bill" wrote in message ... "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in message ... Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 07:15:01 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote: Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: But like Captain Ahab or perhaps Wile E. Coyote, the state has not let a little adversity stop it. This is the best line in the article. And here's the real reason for the poisoning. "After the poisoning is complete - and all the dead fish are scooped out of the water - the lake will be tested for toxicity, and will remain closed for two months, Mr. Martarano said. After that, restocking will begin, with a goal of one million trout in Lake Davis by 2010." I've fired off a letter to Trout Unlimited to see if they are involved with this in any way. I give them a fair amount of money every year and this better not have been on the national agenda. I can understand their concern about an invasive fish, upsetting the ecosystem, but they really do seem like Wile E.Coyote. I did check up on Rotenone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotenone. I don't believe I would get back in the lake for a LONG time. Yeah, but so many morons have been hypnotized (or bribed) by the chemical industry. I'm sure the state will be lying to people about the safety of rotenone as soon as the lake is opened. Is a short lived poison only toxic to gilled animals. Plus they Rotenoned the lake a couple of years ago. Seems as if we did not create any Blobs. Yet. Since chemicals like that have not and cannot be PROPERLY tested on humans, we will NEVER know if they are safe. According to the chemical industry, animal tests are not a valid method for predicting the effects on humans, so that argument is no longer permissible. Sure it is. You may not like it. But is a permissible argument. And since it has been used lots of places without any noticable impact on humans since, we can assume it is not that affecting to humans. We live with a lot more chemicals that are a lot worse for us and we are required to use them. Where are your arguments against their use? In a laboratory, a scientist can exercise quite a bit of control to be sure a rat is not being exposed to dioxin, so when they are testing the toxicity of some other thing, they know it wasn't dioxin that caused a problem. It's practically impossible to set up the same situation for human testing, which is why any scientist worth his salt will tell you it's futile. As far as animal tests, the antics surrounding their validity have been going on since the late 1960s. Environmental groups would point to tests which indicated a certain chemical caused cancer in rats, and companies like Dow would respons by saying animals react differently than humans, so it's risky to extrapolate from those results. But, when convenient, they would point to animal tests which did NOT result in illness, and say those WERE valid results. Then, there's the issue of children's exposure. You know why that's a whole different thing, right? For one example is the fire protectants that all childrens pajamas and bedding are required to use. Blood analysis of children show up frightening amounts of these chemicals, but no rotenone. Silly. Were the pajamas being tested for rotenone? You are an idiot. Rant about poisoning one lake with a killer of gilled animals, and not worry about all the chemicals your children are exposed to daily. Sad. Read the message again, billy bob. |
Piscatorial genocide...
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "Calif Bill" wrote in message ... "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "Calif Bill" wrote in message ... "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "Calif Bill" wrote in message ... "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in message ... Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 07:15:01 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote: Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: But like Captain Ahab or perhaps Wile E. Coyote, the state has not let a little adversity stop it. This is the best line in the article. And here's the real reason for the poisoning. "After the poisoning is complete - and all the dead fish are scooped out of the water - the lake will be tested for toxicity, and will remain closed for two months, Mr. Martarano said. After that, restocking will begin, with a goal of one million trout in Lake Davis by 2010." I've fired off a letter to Trout Unlimited to see if they are involved with this in any way. I give them a fair amount of money every year and this better not have been on the national agenda. I can understand their concern about an invasive fish, upsetting the ecosystem, but they really do seem like Wile E.Coyote. I did check up on Rotenone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotenone. I don't believe I would get back in the lake for a LONG time. Yeah, but so many morons have been hypnotized (or bribed) by the chemical industry. I'm sure the state will be lying to people about the safety of rotenone as soon as the lake is opened. Is a short lived poison only toxic to gilled animals. Plus they Rotenoned the lake a couple of years ago. Seems as if we did not create any Blobs. Yet. Since chemicals like that have not and cannot be PROPERLY tested on humans, we will NEVER know if they are safe. According to the chemical industry, animal tests are not a valid method for predicting the effects on humans, so that argument is no longer permissible. Sure it is. You may not like it. But is a permissible argument. And since it has been used lots of places without any noticable impact on humans since, we can assume it is not that affecting to humans. We live with a lot more chemicals that are a lot worse for us and we are required to use them. Where are your arguments against their use? In a laboratory, a scientist can exercise quite a bit of control to be sure a rat is not being exposed to dioxin, so when they are testing the toxicity of some other thing, they know it wasn't dioxin that caused a problem. It's practically impossible to set up the same situation for human testing, which is why any scientist worth his salt will tell you it's futile. As far as animal tests, the antics surrounding their validity have been going on since the late 1960s. Environmental groups would point to tests which indicated a certain chemical caused cancer in rats, and companies like Dow would respons by saying animals react differently than humans, so it's risky to extrapolate from those results. But, when convenient, they would point to animal tests which did NOT result in illness, and say those WERE valid results. Then, there's the issue of children's exposure. You know why that's a whole different thing, right? For one example is the fire protectants that all childrens pajamas and bedding are required to use. Blood analysis of children show up frightening amounts of these chemicals, but no rotenone. Silly. Were the pajamas being tested for rotenone? You are an idiot. Rant about poisoning one lake with a killer of gilled animals, and not worry about all the chemicals your children are exposed to daily. Sad. Read the message again, billy bob. You read the reply again, dip****. |
Piscatorial genocide...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
... "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "Calif Bill" wrote in message ... "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "Calif Bill" wrote in message ... "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "Calif Bill" wrote in message ... "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in message ... Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 07:15:01 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote: Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: But like Captain Ahab or perhaps Wile E. Coyote, the state has not let a little adversity stop it. This is the best line in the article. And here's the real reason for the poisoning. "After the poisoning is complete - and all the dead fish are scooped out of the water - the lake will be tested for toxicity, and will remain closed for two months, Mr. Martarano said. After that, restocking will begin, with a goal of one million trout in Lake Davis by 2010." I've fired off a letter to Trout Unlimited to see if they are involved with this in any way. I give them a fair amount of money every year and this better not have been on the national agenda. I can understand their concern about an invasive fish, upsetting the ecosystem, but they really do seem like Wile E.Coyote. I did check up on Rotenone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotenone. I don't believe I would get back in the lake for a LONG time. Yeah, but so many morons have been hypnotized (or bribed) by the chemical industry. I'm sure the state will be lying to people about the safety of rotenone as soon as the lake is opened. Is a short lived poison only toxic to gilled animals. Plus they Rotenoned the lake a couple of years ago. Seems as if we did not create any Blobs. Yet. Since chemicals like that have not and cannot be PROPERLY tested on humans, we will NEVER know if they are safe. According to the chemical industry, animal tests are not a valid method for predicting the effects on humans, so that argument is no longer permissible. Sure it is. You may not like it. But is a permissible argument. And since it has been used lots of places without any noticable impact on humans since, we can assume it is not that affecting to humans. We live with a lot more chemicals that are a lot worse for us and we are required to use them. Where are your arguments against their use? In a laboratory, a scientist can exercise quite a bit of control to be sure a rat is not being exposed to dioxin, so when they are testing the toxicity of some other thing, they know it wasn't dioxin that caused a problem. It's practically impossible to set up the same situation for human testing, which is why any scientist worth his salt will tell you it's futile. As far as animal tests, the antics surrounding their validity have been going on since the late 1960s. Environmental groups would point to tests which indicated a certain chemical caused cancer in rats, and companies like Dow would respons by saying animals react differently than humans, so it's risky to extrapolate from those results. But, when convenient, they would point to animal tests which did NOT result in illness, and say those WERE valid results. Then, there's the issue of children's exposure. You know why that's a whole different thing, right? For one example is the fire protectants that all childrens pajamas and bedding are required to use. Blood analysis of children show up frightening amounts of these chemicals, but no rotenone. Silly. Were the pajamas being tested for rotenone? You are an idiot. Rant about poisoning one lake with a killer of gilled animals, and not worry about all the chemicals your children are exposed to daily. Sad. Read the message again, billy bob. You read the reply again, dip****. Let's see....it's late Friday. Time for you to try and find your wife again. |
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