On 11 Jul 2003 15:12:28 GMT, Ignoramus11972
wrote:

SNIPPED

Notice- troll bait crossposted to:
alt.support.marriage,alt.support.divorce,misc.surv ivalism,rec.boats

I must admit, it's an intriguing mix of groups.
noah

Courtesy of Lee Yeaton,
See the boats of rec.boats
www.TheBayGuide.com/rec.boats

In article , Empress Otku wrote:
On 11 Jul 2003 17:08:57 GMT, Ignoramus11972
wrote:

Let me give you a more down to earth example.

Suppose that I declare your husband to be an abuser who needs removal
from your house. Then I break into your house, destroy your sunroom
and electrical panel during breakin, and your cats become collateral
damage. Then I occupy the house and become the ruler, staying in the
master bedroom. You and your family become my subjects. Electricity is
restored to the master bedroom only. Your husband is hiding in the
cellar.

Can we amend that to reflect that the SOB *is* an abuser! Let's just

okay, I did not want to accuse your husband of anything, but you said
it... Just kidding.

Even if he is an abuser... I come in to steal your stuff and not out
of concern for your welfare.

say, for example, he's killed the neighbors and happens to be ****ing
his 12 year old daughter. Personally, *I'd* say, "check out the
basement before you go, please!"

I admit, your points are not without merit as stated, but I think
you're being too simplistic. What if the only family members left are
squabbling about what to do next? Which church to go to, which
brothers to be left out of the will, and so on; backstabbing ensues.
There's no consensus and meanwhile people have to be fed.

Exactly. Once you get there, it is hard to get out. No doubt if the US
got out of Iraq instantly, it could be in some sort of upheaval. That
is why it was important not to get there. Even so, I suspect that the
uheaval from the US not getting out would be even worse.

electricity to the master bedroom only... when you get on an
airplane they tell you to put the oxygen mask over your own face
first, then assist the child you're with.

does not seem like much assistance is going on...

There is nothing new about wanting to kill thousands of occupied
people in exchange for your soldiers. Old as the warfare
itself. Worked for Genghis Khan. Did not work for most others. But it
does not work well in modern times. By The Way Genghis Khan was kicked
out of Afganistan despite his unrestrained brutality.

Who are the terrorists this time around? You suggest it's the U.S.,
apparently.

In the Iraq case specifically, the US is the wrongdoer.

The entire UN agreed as recently as five years ago that there were WMD
in Iraq.

I am not sure which resolution you are referring to, but it was
completely obvious that the US had no evidence of Iraqi WMD at
all. And they lie admin LIED to us about having that evidence.

We disagree completely. They may not have had more than a suspicion
this time around,

And yet the Bush admin claimed certainty about their WMD.

I also had a suspicion that Iraq had wmd. But I had no evidence.

but it was a suspicion shared by the international
community. I don't know that I would have made the decision to enter
Iraq, but to say they outright lied about anything other than
(perhaps) the nuclear issue is not correct.

Empress, they had no evidence, and yet they repeatedly claimed that
they were certain about Iraqi wmd.

snippage

I feel sorry for my wallet, myself, as well as for the US soldiers who
are suckers and now have to die in Iraq, and I am also sorry for the
Iraqis as well. They got into this horrid mess and now the US is
afraid to leave Iraq even more than they are afraid to stay because
that would undermine their "credibility". So they are guaranteed to
have years of struggle ahead.

This we agree on, for the most part.

outstanding.

i

On 11 Jul 2003 15:12:28 GMT, Ignoramus11972
wrote:

Let's see what is happening... Washington wants to get a big quantity of
money from lenders, then the plan is, no doubt, to give it to Cheney's
halliburton, Bechtel etc. Then Iraqi oil will be used to repay the
loan.

Actually, the money is going to Carthage, in the form of bribes, to
pay for Visigoth mercenaries, to storm Byzantium, and to reestablish
the Mayan Empire but in the Middle East. The Holy Oil will be used to
light the ritual torches used to illuminate the pyramid top human
sacrifices of Jewish babies and in doing so, restore the Sahara to its
former glory as the home of Atlantis.

Hey, works for me.

Gunner

"What do you call someone in possesion of all the facts? Paranoid.-William Burroughs

On 11 Jul 2003 22:47:28 GMT, Ignoramus11972
wrote:


Democrats voted for the Iraq war in Congress. The war was conducted
pretty much as they could expect. So any attempts to distance
themselves from the quite inevitable failures of the Iraq campaign is a
littbe bit disingenious.

What failures?

Gunner

"What do you call someone in possesion of all the facts? Paranoid.-William Burroughs

The USA is giving money to Israel.
More Palestinian civilians have lost they life's then Israelian civilians.
It the moment about 42% of the west bank and gaza are occupied by jewish
" Settlers ".
Come to think of it, it reminds me of the early history of the USA.
Weapon's of mass destruction? Israel has plenty of them.

http://www.nti.org/e_research/e1_isr...abstracts.html

Robert wrote:

Saddam was also giving money to the suicide bombers and their parent
organizations. Whether Iraq wa secular or not is irelevant.

It is relevant if you want to establish a link between the religious
fanatics of 911 and a secular dictator.

"Xenos the elder"
wrote in message
...


Robert wrote:

Follow the money

It is coming mainly from Saudi Arabia.
Or in case of the early Taliban. USA.
Saddams regime was s e c u l a r e.
Iran's regime is religious. Al Qaida is religious.
That's why they had a war with 2 million deaths on both side. (
Iran Iraq war )
No " wonder " Saddam " likes " Bin Laden ".

"Stephanie S" wrote in message
. net...


How do these dots get connected in people's minds. I died laughing, if in
dismay, when I heard the speach by Bin Laden which supposedly proved the
association with Saddam Hussein. Bin Laden liked Hussein almost as little


as


he likes us.

Can someone explain to me the supposed link Irag and Hussein had to 911?
Cause all I see is smoke and mirrors.

S

"Robert" wrote in message
. ..


Yes, and the twin towers collapsing before our eyes was a grand illusion


and


the dead body parts flying from busses and restaraunts in Jerusalem mere
fabrications. It's all connected. Perhaps your lying to yourself.

"Ignoramus11972" wrote in message
gebra.com...
You have been lied to Robert.

Israeli use of napalm in Lebanon:

http://www.giwersworld.org/israel/more-pics/
http://domino.un.org/unispal.nsf/0/3...d?OpenDocument

`` - On 28 July, in the central sector of southern Lebanon, Israeli
fighter aircraft and Cobra helicopters carried out scores of raids on
villages in the area and on the town of Nabatiye, reducing parts of it
to rubble. Napalm was used in the raids, causing widespread
fires. Raids were directed against Douair, destroying homes and the
mosque, Zawtar al-Charqiye, Zawtar al-Gharbiye, Haruf, Tibnine,
Charqiye, whose mosque and school were destroyed, Zibdine, Kafr Sir,
Maifadoun, Kafr Roumman, Choukine, Habbouch and Jibchit. This was
followed by heavy artillery shelling which caused heavy damage.''

i

In article , Xenos the elder wrote:

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http://www.nti.org/e_research/e1_isr...abstracts.html


Robert wrote:

Xenos, refresh my memory, When did Israel use WMD on the Palestinians?



Israel has over 80 atomic bombs and WMD and has been using the WMD on
Palestinians but is not a security threat?








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a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.nti.org/e_research/e1_israel_bwabstracts.html"http://www.nti.org/e_research/e1_israel_bwabstracts.html/abr
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Robert wrote:br
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pre wrap=""Xenos, refresh my memory, When did Israel use WMD on the Palestinians?

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pre wrap=""Israel has over 80 atomic bombs and WMD and has been using the WMD on
Palestinians but is not a security threat?
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Sorry, I just can't agree. When you are seeking help from someone to avenge your enemies, you don't really care what their religion is as long as their willing to do your dirty work. Saddam had terrorist training camps in Iraq. Saddam did not have to believe in radical Islam in order to use it's fanatics for his own purposes. This is not difficult to understand, is it?
Robert wrote:

Saddam was also giving money to the suicide bombers and their parent organizations. Whether Iraq wa secular or not is irelevant.
It is relevant if you want to establish a link between the religious fanatics of 911 and a secular dictator.

Napalm is neither a nuclear weapon nor a biological weapon and therefore
would not be considered a WMD. It is a cruel way to kill people, but then
killing any innocent person is cruel now isn't it?
"Ignoramus14756" wrote in message
a.com...
Israeli use of napalm in Lebanon:

http://www.giwersworld.org/israel/more-pics/

http://domino.un.org/unispal.nsf/0/3...4688d?OpenDocu
ment

`` - On 28 July, in the central sector of southern Lebanon, Israeli
fighter aircraft and Cobra helicopters carried out scores of raids on
villages in the area and on the town of Nabatiye, reducing parts of it
to rubble. Napalm was used in the raids, causing widespread
fires. Raids were directed against Douair, destroying homes and the
mosque, Zawtar al-Charqiye, Zawtar al-Gharbiye, Haruf, Tibnine,
Charqiye, whose mosque and school were destroyed, Zibdine, Kafr Sir,
Maifadoun, Kafr Roumman, Choukine, Habbouch and Jibchit. This was
followed by heavy artillery shelling which caused heavy damage.''

i

In article , Xenos the elder wrote:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

http://www.nti.org/e_research/e1_isr...abstracts.html


Robert wrote:

Xenos, refresh my memory, When did Israel use WMD on the Palestinians?



Israel has over 80 atomic bombs and WMD and has been using the WMD on
Palestinians but is not a security threat?








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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
html
head
meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1"
title/title
/head
body
a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.nti.org/e_research/e1_israel_bwabstracts.html"http://www.n
ti.org/e_research/e1_israel_bwabstracts.html/abr
br
br
Robert wrote:br
blockquote type="cite"
"
pre wrap=""Xenos, refresh my memory, When did Israel use WMD on the
Palestinians?

/pre
blockquote type="cite"
pre wrap=""Israel has over 80 atomic bombs and WMD and has been
using the WMD on
Palestinians but is not a security threat?
/pre
/blockquote
pre wrap=""!----

/pre
/blockquote
br
/body
/html

You are right. I have seen it on the BBC channel.
On Kurdish controlled territory were terrorist camps.


Ignoramus14756 wrote:

In article , Robert wrote:


This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Sorry, I just can't agree. When you are seeking help from someone to =
avenge your enemies, you don't really care what their religion is as =
long as their willing to do your dirty work. Saddam had terrorist =
training camps in Iraq. Saddam did not have to believe in radical Islam =
in order to use it's fanatics for his own purposes. This is not =
difficult to understand, is it?



You are probably getting your information from TV soundbites. I
personally read a clarinet newsgroup where all major news stories from
some news agencies are posted. It may be available from your
newsserver.

As far as I know, there were no terrorist training camps on Saddam
controlled territory. There were, however, such camps on Kurdish
controlled (with US backing) territory.

That you are misinformed is actually a testament to a misinformation
campaign going on. They would announce loudly that terrorist camps
were found in Iraq, but would forget to mention that they were in the
Kurd territory over which Saddam did not have much say.


i



Robert wrote:

Saddam was also giving money to the suicide bombers and their parent =
organizations. Whether Iraq wa secular or not is irelevant.
It is relevant if you want to establish a link between the religious =
fanatics of 911 and a secular dictator.


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Stephanie and Tim wrote:
Where did you hear this? If the Taliban regularly calls for antifada,
how can the secularness of Iraq be irrelevant?

Antipasta with sugarlness? Guess that this has relevance for alt.cooking,
and maybe misc.survivalism, but I am struggling with alt.aupport.marriage
and alt.support.divorce (rec.boats - we'll leave that one alone).

S


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