Thinking Of Buying Baliner Discovery 210
 

Thinking about buying this bouat with the 5 litre moter..Any pros or
cons.This will be my first boat and not looking for the bayliner
bashers.I can live with some of the small problems as most new boats
experience these.Just looking for some pros and cons from you wise
people.
Thank you

Thinking Of Buying Baliner Discovery 210
 

On Aug 8, 6:49?am, wrote:
Thinking about buying this bouat with the 5 litre moter..Any pros or
cons.This will be my first boat and not looking for the bayliner
bashers.I can live with some of the small problems as most new boats
experience these.Just looking for some pros and cons from you wise
people.
Thank you

You might check www.baylinerownersclub.org for some comments from
folks who actually own one of these.

It might be a pretty good boat, or not, for your intended uses. How
and where you will be using it has as much or more to do with
suitability than do original build specs or design. Most boats will
stand up to normal and *appropriate* use fairly well.

Thinking Of Buying Baliner Discovery 210
 

On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 08:53:09 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

Most boats will
stand up to normal and *appropriate* use fairly well.

Agreed.

The problem is trying to figure what normal and appropriate is for any
given boat.

The manufacturers and sales people are certainly not going to help you
out, nor will the boating magazines who have never met a boat they
didn't like.

Virtually all 21 foot boats however, especially Bayliners, are
designed for use in protected water, typically with waves and chop
less than 1 foot high, winds less than 12 kts.

Above all, do not overload the boat, learn how to navigate, and learn
proper boat operation and safety. Way too many people think that if
they can operate a car that they can also operate a boat. Nothing
could be further from the truth. Your local coast guard auxiliary and
power squadron organizations offer courses everywhere at little or no
charge. You owe it to the safety of your friends and family to take
one of these courses before operating any boat.

Thinking Of Buying Baliner Discovery 210
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 08:53:09 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

Most boats will
stand up to normal and *appropriate* use fairly well.


Virtually all 21 foot boats however, especially Bayliners, are
designed for use in protected water, typically with waves and chop
less than 1 foot high, winds less than 12 kts.


What a bunch of total BS.

I have owned 3 boats at 21 feet and under that stood up well when needed to
operate in moderate seas on Lake Erie, including 3-5 footers (although not
recommended). My 20 foot Glastron can take on 2-4 foot seas.

One of the most respected boat surveyors in the Lake Erie western basin area
recommends Bayliners knowing the intended use is on Lake Erie. He knows
value for the $, especially when comparing them to comparable sized Sea Rays
(also built by Brunswick).

Folks like you are the reason Bayliner continues to carry the well deserved
bad reputation on their 1980's models.

Give it up and stick to opinions on your 50 foot, 8 mph trawler.

Thinking Of Buying Baliner Discovery 210
 

"JimH" ask wrote in message
...

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 08:53:09 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

Most boats will
stand up to normal and *appropriate* use fairly well.


Virtually all 21 foot boats however, especially Bayliners, are
designed for use in protected water, typically with waves and chop
less than 1 foot high, winds less than 12 kts.


What a bunch of total BS.

I have owned 3 boats at 21 feet and under that stood up well when needed
to operate in moderate seas on Lake Erie, including 3-5 footers (although
not recommended). My 20 foot Glastron can take on 2-4 foot seas.

One of the most respected boat surveyors in the Lake Erie western basin
area recommends Bayliners knowing the intended use is on Lake Erie. He
knows value for the $, especially when comparing them to comparable sized
Sea Rays (also built by Brunswick).

Folks like you are the reason Bayliner continues to carry the well
deserved bad reputation on their 1980's models.

Give it up and stick to opinions on your 50 foot, 8 mph trawler.



I doubt like heck that you are running in 3-5' seas in the Great Lakes.
Those are very nasty size seas. Most bigger sport boats will not run in
those seas. I run in 8' swells max, and those are higher than the boat by a
lot! And those 8' swells only when they are long period and not accompanied
by 2-3' wind waves. I hear these quotes of 5' seas in protected waters by a
lot of boaters here. Find out how a sea wave is measured. That said,
Bayliners in the 21' Trophy types do quite well in moderate seas, but they
will break before higher quality boats will, so try to avoid the bigger
seas. Just not as strong a boat as less glass. Most 21' open bow are just
not built for big waves. If one breaks over the front, the nose of the boat
fills and you may sink in a short time.

Thinking Of Buying Baliner Discovery 210
 

On Wed, 8 Aug 2007 21:48:33 -0400, "JimH" ask wrote:

What a bunch of total BS.

I have owned 3 boats at 21 feet and under that stood up well when needed to
operate in moderate seas on Lake Erie, including 3-5 footers (although not
recommended). My 20 foot Glastron can take on 2-4 foot seas.

One of the most respected boat surveyors in the Lake Erie western basin area
recommends Bayliners knowing the intended use is on Lake Erie. He knows
value for the $, especially when comparing them to comparable sized Sea Rays
(also built by Brunswick).

Folks like you are the reason Bayliner continues to carry the well deserved
bad reputation on their 1980's models.

Give it up and stick to opinions on your 50 foot, 8 mph trawler.

You're entitled to your opinion of course but I disagree. Running a
21 footer in 3 to 5 footers is survival not boating. I've done it and
I've survived it, but it is not what you'd call a pleasant day on the
water.

Please note that no where in my reply did I mention the Bayliner brand
name, or imply it. My opinion applies to all 21 footers. They are
simply too small for anything but protected water, assuming that you'd
like to run on plane and not negotiate every wave. I've run a 12 foot
inflatable on Lake Michigan, Lake Ontario, Gulf of Mexico and the open
ocean but it's not exactly what you'd recommend for someone elses wife
and kids.

Please also note that in recent years I've owned a 24 ft I/O cuddy, a
33 ft sportfish, and at present a Searay 270 in addition to the
trawler. That's a fairly wide spectrum of experience over a wide
range of conditions. Other than the trawler, the only one of those
boats at home in 3 to 5 foot seas is the sportfish.

Thinking Of Buying Baliner Discovery 210
 

On Wed, 8 Aug 2007 19:48:50 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

I doubt like heck that you are running in 3-5' seas in the Great Lakes.
Those are very nasty size seas.

Absolutely right.

I have no doubt that Lake Erie can generate 3 to 5 foot seas but I
don't think there are too many people running through them in a 21
footer unless they have to, and certainly not on plane enjoying the
day.

Thinking Of Buying Baliner Discovery 210
 

"JimH" ask wrote in message
...

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 08:53:09 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

Most boats will
stand up to normal and *appropriate* use fairly well.


Virtually all 21 foot boats however, especially Bayliners, are
designed for use in protected water, typically with waves and chop
less than 1 foot high, winds less than 12 kts.


What a bunch of total BS.

I have owned 3 boats at 21 feet and under that stood up well when needed
to operate in moderate seas on Lake Erie, including 3-5 footers (although
not recommended). My 20 foot Glastron can take on 2-4 foot seas.



I think there's a lot more to consider than just the "size" of waves. Sea
state varies dependent on many factors including period, chop, swells,
fetch, confused ..... etc.
3-5 "footers" in an easy, rolling swell is one thing. 3-5 in a confused,
breaking, close chop is quite another and can challenge boat stability and
the operator's piloting skills when operating much larger boats.

It's also been my experience over the years that the "size" of waves ...
particularly when the seas are a bit rough .... are usually exaggerated by
casual boaters. Those "3-5" footers are often more like 2-3 footers at
most. Navigating confused "3-5's" in a light, 21 foot boat is an
experience one will soon not forget.

Eisboch

Thinking Of Buying Baliner Discovery 210
 

Eisboch wrote:
"JimH" ask wrote in message
...
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 08:53:09 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

Most boats will
stand up to normal and *appropriate* use fairly well.
Virtually all 21 foot boats however, especially Bayliners, are
designed for use in protected water, typically with waves and chop
less than 1 foot high, winds less than 12 kts.

What a bunch of total BS.

I have owned 3 boats at 21 feet and under that stood up well when needed
to operate in moderate seas on Lake Erie, including 3-5 footers (although
not recommended). My 20 foot Glastron can take on 2-4 foot seas.



I think there's a lot more to consider than just the "size" of waves. Sea
state varies dependent on many factors including period, chop, swells,
fetch, confused ..... etc.
3-5 "footers" in an easy, rolling swell is one thing. 3-5 in a confused,
breaking, close chop is quite another and can challenge boat stability and
the operator's piloting skills when operating much larger boats.

It's also been my experience over the years that the "size" of waves ...
particularly when the seas are a bit rough .... are usually exaggerated by
casual boaters. Those "3-5" footers are often more like 2-3 footers at
most. Navigating confused "3-5's" in a light, 21 foot boat is an
experience one will soon not forget.

Eisboch




Two seasons ago, coming out of the Patuxent River in Yo Ho, a 25-footer
with a huge bow. built like a battleship, and heavy as one, I ran into
five footers on the Bay. Real five footers, close and breaking. After 15
minutes of attempting to slog north for my home port, I made a wise
captain's decision, turned around, and headed back for the Pax River.

Thinking Of Buying Baliner Discovery 210
 

"HK" wrote in message
. ..



Two seasons ago, coming out of the Patuxent River in Yo Ho, a 25-footer
with a huge bow. built like a battleship, and heavy as one, I ran into
five footers on the Bay. Real five footers, close and breaking. After 15
minutes of attempting to slog north for my home port, I made a wise
captain's decision, turned around, and headed back for the Pax River.


I've done the same thing with both the Navigator and the Egg Harbor, usually
at the request by, or my observation of a passenger. Both boats will handle
5 foot seas ok, but for some it's not an enjoyable experience. The two
years that I was into fishing, we used to take the Egg out on trips in
fairly rough conditions and although the boat was capable of over 30 kts, we
often returned at far less than cruising speed with a few green passengers.

My only personal experience with a case of severe sea sickness was on a 38
foot Hatteras.

Eisboch

Thinking Of Buying Baliner Discovery 210
 

"HK" wrote in message
. ..



BTW, congrats on your new Parker. I am sure you will enjoy it and it's
nice, smooth and quiet Yamaha 4 stroke!

Eisboch

Thinking Of Buying Baliner Discovery 210
 

Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
. ..



BTW, congrats on your new Parker. I am sure you will enjoy it and it's
nice, smooth and quiet Yamaha 4 stroke!

Eisboch



Thanks! Looking forward to getting her splashed as soon as she's rigged
up. At the moment, the only thing I want to do outdoors is sit under a
lawn sprinkler. It's only 7:18 am, and it's already close to 80F in my
backyard. Blech.

Thinking Of Buying Baliner Discovery 210
 

"HK" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
. ..



BTW, congrats on your new Parker. I am sure you will enjoy it and it's
nice, smooth and quiet Yamaha 4 stroke!

Eisboch

Thanks! Looking forward to getting her splashed as soon as she's rigged
up. At the moment, the only thing I want to do outdoors is sit under a
lawn sprinkler. It's only 7:18 am, and it's already close to 80F in my
backyard. Blech.


One of the few benefits of living up here is decent summer weather
(usually). Yesterday was hot and humid, but apparently the front has passed
as it is currently 64 degrees and dry with a high forecast of about 78
degrees. Perfect.

Eisboch

Thinking Of Buying Baliner Discovery 210
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...

Absolutely right.

I have no doubt that Lake Erie can generate 3 to 5 foot seas but I
don't think there are too many people running through them in a 21
footer unless they have to, and certainly not on plane enjoying the
day.

Where did I say otherwise?

Thinking Of Buying Baliner Discovery 210
 

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...

"JimH" ask wrote in message
...

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 08:53:09 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

Most boats will
stand up to normal and *appropriate* use fairly well.


Virtually all 21 foot boats however, especially Bayliners, are
designed for use in protected water, typically with waves and chop
less than 1 foot high, winds less than 12 kts.


What a bunch of total BS.

I have owned 3 boats at 21 feet and under that stood up well when needed
to operate in moderate seas on Lake Erie, including 3-5 footers (although
not recommended). My 20 foot Glastron can take on 2-4 foot seas.

One of the most respected boat surveyors in the Lake Erie western basin
area recommends Bayliners knowing the intended use is on Lake Erie. He
knows value for the $, especially when comparing them to comparable sized
Sea Rays (also built by Brunswick).

Folks like you are the reason Bayliner continues to carry the well
deserved bad reputation on their 1980's models.

Give it up and stick to opinions on your 50 foot, 8 mph trawler.



I doubt like heck that you are running in 3-5' seas in the Great Lakes.

Not planned, but caught in. Lake Erie can turn from flat to nasty in a
heart beat.

Waynes comments were the ridiculous ones, not mine.

Thinking Of Buying Baliner Discovery 210
 

On Aug 8, 6:48?pm, "JimH" ask wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message

...

On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 08:53:09 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

Most boats will
stand up to normal and *appropriate* use fairly well.

Virtually all 21 foot boats however, especially Bayliners, are
designed for use in protected water, typically with waves and chop
less than 1 foot high, winds less than 12 kts.

What a bunch of total BS.

I have owned 3 boats at 21 feet and under that stood up well when needed to
operate in moderate seas on Lake Erie, including 3-5 footers (although not
recommended). My 20 foot Glastron can take on 2-4 foot seas.

One of the most respected boat surveyors in the Lake Erie western basin area
recommends Bayliners knowing the intended use is on Lake Erie. He knows
value for the $, especially when comparing them to comparable sized Sea Rays
(also built by Brunswick).

Folks like you are the reason Bayliner continues to carry the well deserved
bad reputation on their 1980's models.

Give it up and stick to opinions on your 50 foot, 8 mph trawler.

I'd be relectant to run in 3-footers or more with any 21-foot boat.
That's an example of a use that isn't appropriate- regardless of brand
name on the boat. I can think of several Bayliner/Meridian boats in
which I would be confident, if not entirely comfortable, in 3-5
footers- but they're all larger than 21 feet.

I get nervous when the height of the chop exceeds that of the
freeboard.
Sans big scuppers or an aggressively self bailing cockpit, you don't
want to start collecting a lot of water in a boat that size- it
doesn't take much to drive one under. Wouldn't personally want to be
in a boat without a foredeck- with the possible exception of a W/A
fishing rig- in anything particularly nasty. Lots of times the best
option, if not the most comfortable, is to steer into the wind in
heavy weather. Lack of a foredeck effectively precludes that choice as
spray and splash water, and perhaps the occasionally breaking wave,
*will* beat down of the forward portions of the topside.

JimH- you have posted here that you choose not to use your boat on
days when the winds get into the 20 mph range. I think that is an
example of *appropriate* use for a boat no larger or heavier than
yours and demonstrates good judgment. Within that weather frame, it
should be pretty unusual to encounter more than 2 foot chop, I'd
think--- although I haven't done any boating on Lake Erie.

Thinking Of Buying Baliner Discovery 210
 

On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 07:57:43 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:


I'd be relectant to run in 3-footers or more with any 21-foot boat.

A lot of where I run, in and around the Fisher's Island area, Watch
Hill Reef, North Rip at Block, Seal Rock off Newport, etc., it's not
uncommon to run into 2/3 foot waves on changing tides when the rest of
the ocean is flat calm. Heck, even in a dead calm, running the
Charleston Breachway on a particularly agressive tide can be a roller
coaster ride.

As you said, the difference is how you get rid of water coming into
the boat and that's one problem with my Ranger that I don't like. The
self-draining system leaves a lot to be desired. Thus, I learned how
to avoid major problems in how I handle the boat in these situations.
And being one of those fishing types that loves drifting in tidal rips
I had to quickly learn the whats and hows to avoid shipping water.

Sometimes I'll let the bow do the work, sometimes the freeboard and my
Ranger's ability to really "float" if you will. While there are
problems with the cockpit drainage, the inherent stability of the beam
vs length and the bay boat type of hull keep it relatively dry.

I don't mind 20 knot winds if I'm in the bay, but anywhere else, I'm
not all that comfortable.