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Umbrella policies being gutted by State Farm
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 18:42:11 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote: Do you understand what an umbrella policy is? Apparently not. What policies claim to cover has nothing to do with Harry's fantasy about evil corporations vis-a-vis his needs. I was addressing his scenario. I'll tell you both what the OP's umbrella coverage is. It's the one that had a premium increase of $206 for the new term. Is that clear enough? --Vic |
Umbrella policies being gutted by State Farm
"Vic Smith" wrote in message
... On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 18:42:11 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: Do you understand what an umbrella policy is? Apparently not. What policies claim to cover has nothing to do with Harry's fantasy about evil corporations vis-a-vis his needs. I was addressing his scenario. I'll tell you both what the OP's umbrella coverage is. It's the one that had a premium increase of $206 for the new term. Is that clear enough? --Vic Thank you. I've been waiting all day for that. |
Umbrella policies being gutted by State Farm
HK wrote:
Hamish wrote: I am in California. I just got the renewal bill for my personal umbrella policy, and the "Important Notice" brochure that always comes with it said, "The definition of insured is revised so that a person or organization using an insured's auto, RV or watercraft is no longer covered." So, when I let a valet park my car, he's not covered. If I loan my car to a friend, relative, or neighbor, they're not covered. If my ski boat was running - it isn't right now - and I let a friend drive it to tow me, he's not covered. (Yes, I know that my "underlying" car insurance covers them up to the limits of that policy, but those limits are only enough to pay for a stubbed toe.) I called my agent and she was totally unaware of the change, and asked me to fax her a copy of the brochure. Then, once she called the underwriters, she still seemed unconcerned. She was happy to quote me the increase in premiums to bring each of my car polcies up to the same limits that were formerly covered by the Umbrella. An additional $206 per year. I will pay the money, because I own a home and it is vital that I remain insured up to a high limit. I have taken the trouble to write this post because I think that a lot of other people will fail to read the "Important Notice" (the brochure is 17 pages long), will simply write the check like they do every other year, and will end up with a big gap in their coverage. And their insurance agent won't take the trouble to call them or write them a personal letter telling about the big gap that just opened up in their coverage. So, look out! And warn your friends. Ham Not to worry; it's just part of corporate America's full screw the individual plan, brought to you and helped along by the Bush Administration, which doesn't really truly believe in any sort of regulation, except on civil liberties. Many refuse to recognize it. The administration is about eliminating "unnecessary regulation, which is to say all regulation of big business. The credit card industry managed to gain all control and regulation of its dealings with customers and in the process anyone that has any "contract" with big business. They write unilateral contracts and have the power to change and enforce them. They reserve the right to use our judicial system to enforce them but virtually eliminate the citizen access to redress of our Laws and Courts. The food supply is no longer safe. Adulteration of our foods is now allowed to be labeled all natural and so and so on. Big business has gotten every thing on its dream list in the last several years including unregulated oil industry which operates as a cabal. Their definitional of free trade and elimination of unnecessary government etc is survival of the consumer and citizen in the jungle full of their predation. Caveat Emptor is more relevant today than anytime, in history. Our Republic is seriously wounded. |
Umbrella policies being gutted by State Farm
nada wrote:
HK wrote: Hamish wrote: I am in California. I just got the renewal bill for my personal umbrella policy, and the "Important Notice" brochure that always comes with it said, "The definition of insured is revised so that a person or organization using an insured's auto, RV or watercraft is no longer covered." So, when I let a valet park my car, he's not covered. If I loan my car to a friend, relative, or neighbor, they're not covered. If my ski boat was running - it isn't right now - and I let a friend drive it to tow me, he's not covered. (Yes, I know that my "underlying" car insurance covers them up to the limits of that policy, but those limits are only enough to pay for a stubbed toe.) I called my agent and she was totally unaware of the change, and asked me to fax her a copy of the brochure. Then, once she called the underwriters, she still seemed unconcerned. She was happy to quote me the increase in premiums to bring each of my car polcies up to the same limits that were formerly covered by the Umbrella. An additional $206 per year. I will pay the money, because I own a home and it is vital that I remain insured up to a high limit. I have taken the trouble to write this post because I think that a lot of other people will fail to read the "Important Notice" (the brochure is 17 pages long), will simply write the check like they do every other year, and will end up with a big gap in their coverage. And their insurance agent won't take the trouble to call them or write them a personal letter telling about the big gap that just opened up in their coverage. So, look out! And warn your friends. Ham Not to worry; it's just part of corporate America's full screw the individual plan, brought to you and helped along by the Bush Administration, which doesn't really truly believe in any sort of regulation, except on civil liberties. Many refuse to recognize it. The administration is about eliminating "unnecessary regulation, which is to say all regulation of big business. The credit card industry managed to gain all control and regulation of its dealings with customers and in the process anyone that has any "contract" with big business. They write unilateral contracts and have the power to change and enforce them. They reserve the right to use our judicial system to enforce them but virtually eliminate the citizen access to redress of our Laws and Courts. The food supply is no longer safe. Adulteration of our foods is now allowed to be labeled all natural and so and so on. Big business has gotten every thing on its dream list in the last several years including unregulated oil industry which operates as a cabal. Their definitional of free trade and elimination of unnecessary government etc is survival of the consumer and citizen in the jungle full of their predation. Caveat Emptor is more relevant today than anytime, in history. Our Republic is seriously wounded. Yup! |
Umbrella policies being gutted by State Farm
HK wrote:
JimH wrote: "Vic Smith" wrote in message ... On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 20:37:12 -0400, Gene Kearns wrote: On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 18:21:12 -0400, "JimH" ask penned the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: "Hamish" wrote in message ink.net... I am in California. I just got the renewal bill for my personal umbrella policy, and the "Important Notice" brochure that always comes with it said, "The definition of insured is revised so that a person or organization using an insured's auto, RV or watercraft is no longer covered." So, when I let a valet park my car, he's not covered. If I loan my car to a friend, relative, or neighbor, they're not covered. If my ski boat was running - it isn't right now - and I let a friend drive it to tow me, he's not covered. (Yes, I know that my "underlying" car insurance covers them up to the limits of that policy, but those limits are only enough to pay for a stubbed toe.) I called my agent and she was totally unaware of the change, and asked me to fax her a copy of the brochure. Then, once she called the underwriters, she still seemed unconcerned. She was happy to quote me the increase in premiums to bring each of my car polcies up to the same limits that were formerly covered by the Umbrella. An additional $206 per year. I will pay the money, because I own a home and it is vital that I remain insured up to a high limit. I have taken the trouble to write this post because I think that a lot of other people will fail to read the "Important Notice" (the brochure is 17 pages long), will simply write the check like they do every other year, and will end up with a big gap in their coverage. And their insurance agent won't take the trouble to call them or write them a personal letter telling about the big gap that just opened up in their coverage. So, look out! And warn your friends. Ham 1. The valet company should have their own insurance. *You* pay insurance premiums to make sure *you* are covered. Don't assume that anybody else has you covered (they don't, though they may try to indemnify themselves). If you have to take them to court, be sure that you can afford all of the justice that you feel you are entitled to.... 2. Don't loan your car or boat to anyone outside your family. Ok, I'll buy that, but it doesn't cover any non-loaner legitimate use of your vehicle. Boats? Marina re-positioning your boat to another slip (see? says they can do it in the lease agreement..... Personal injury? You have a dangerous boat! Damage? See no evil, hear no evil...... see #1 above) 3. Why should the insurance company cover anyone but you and your family? Because there *are* no-loaner issues to be dealt with.... So what is the big deal? You have equity that other people want.... it really is a BIG DEAL! Bingo. $206 yearly premium increase for the same coverage. --Vic Why in the world would you want to extend your general liability umbrella coverage to any one but your family? If you were smart...........you would pay zero extra as the changes have no effect on you. At a couple of ramps I use, I sometimes have to "manhandle" the boat onto the trailer properly while someone else handles the tow vehicle. Or, at launch, I sometimes stay in the boat while someone else backs down the trailer. **** happens. I'd want coverage for nasty things happening at those times, since I can't handle everything at once. Once again, it's just another corporate rip-off being perpetrated on individuals. It's too bad we don't have tighter control over corporations in this country. We do, it's called competition. Look it up... |
Umbrella policies being gutted by State Farm
nada wrote:
HK wrote: Hamish wrote: I am in California. I just got the renewal bill for my personal umbrella policy, and the "Important Notice" brochure that always comes with it said, "The definition of insured is revised so that a person or organization using an insured's auto, RV or watercraft is no longer covered." So, when I let a valet park my car, he's not covered. If I loan my car to a friend, relative, or neighbor, they're not covered. If my ski boat was running - it isn't right now - and I let a friend drive it to tow me, he's not covered. (Yes, I know that my "underlying" car insurance covers them up to the limits of that policy, but those limits are only enough to pay for a stubbed toe.) I called my agent and she was totally unaware of the change, and asked me to fax her a copy of the brochure. Then, once she called the underwriters, she still seemed unconcerned. She was happy to quote me the increase in premiums to bring each of my car polcies up to the same limits that were formerly covered by the Umbrella. An additional $206 per year. I will pay the money, because I own a home and it is vital that I remain insured up to a high limit. I have taken the trouble to write this post because I think that a lot of other people will fail to read the "Important Notice" (the brochure is 17 pages long), will simply write the check like they do every other year, and will end up with a big gap in their coverage. And their insurance agent won't take the trouble to call them or write them a personal letter telling about the big gap that just opened up in their coverage. So, look out! And warn your friends. Ham Not to worry; it's just part of corporate America's full screw the individual plan, brought to you and helped along by the Bush Administration, which doesn't really truly believe in any sort of regulation, except on civil liberties. Many refuse to recognize it. The administration is about eliminating "unnecessary regulation, which is to say all regulation of big business. The credit card industry managed to gain all control and regulation of its dealings with customers and in the process anyone that has any "contract" with big business. They write unilateral contracts and have the power to change and enforce them. They reserve the right to use our judicial system to enforce them but virtually eliminate the citizen access to redress of our Laws and Courts. The food supply is no longer safe. Adulteration of our foods is now allowed to be labeled all natural and so and so on. Big business has gotten every thing on its dream list in the last several years including unregulated oil industry which operates as a cabal. Their definitional of free trade and elimination of unnecessary government etc is survival of the consumer and citizen in the jungle full of their predation. Caveat Emptor is more relevant today than anytime, in history. Our Republic is seriously wounded. Where do you get this crap? The Onion? |
Umbrella policies being gutted by State Farm
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Umbrella policies being gutted by State Farm
"akheel" wrote in message ... Gene Kearns wrote in : On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 18:21:12 -0400, "JimH" ask penned the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: "Hamish" wrote in message thlink.net... I am in California. I just got the renewal bill for my personal umbrella policy, and the "Important Notice" brochure that always comes with it said, "The definition of insured is revised so that a person or organization using an insured's auto, RV or watercraft is no longer covered." So, when I let a valet park my car, he's not covered. If I loan my car to a friend, relative, or neighbor, they're not covered. If my ski boat was running - it isn't right now - and I let a friend drive it to tow me, he's not covered. (Yes, I know that my "underlying" car insurance covers them up to the limits of that policy, but those limits are only enough to pay for a stubbed toe.) I called my agent and she was totally unaware of the change, and asked me to fax her a copy of the brochure. Then, once she called the underwriters, she still seemed unconcerned. She was happy to quote me the increase in premiums to bring each of my car polcies up to the same limits that were formerly covered by the Umbrella. An additional $206 per year. I will pay the money, because I own a home and it is vital that I remain insured up to a high limit. I have taken the trouble to write this post because I think that a lot of other people will fail to read the "Important Notice" (the brochure is 17 pages long), will simply write the check like they do every other year, and will end up with a big gap in their coverage. And their insurance agent won't take the trouble to call them or write them a personal letter telling about the big gap that just opened up in their coverage. So, look out! And warn your friends. Ham 1. The valet company should have their own insurance. *You* pay insurance premiums to make sure *you* are covered. Don't assume that anybody else has you covered (they don't, though they may try to indemnify themselves). If you have to take them to court, be sure that you can afford all of the justice that you feel you are entitled to.... 2. Don't loan your car or boat to anyone outside your family. Ok, I'll buy that, but it doesn't cover any non-loaner legitimate use of your vehicle. Boats? Marina re-positioning your boat to another slip (see? says they can do it in the lease agreement..... Personal injury? You have a dangerous boat! Damage? See no evil, hear no evil...... see #1 above) 3. Why should the insurance company cover anyone but you and your family? Because there *are* no-loaner issues to be dealt with.... So what is the big deal? You have equity that other people want.... it really is a BIG DEAL! While admittedly, I don't have the policy you are describing, so I can't read it, I think you are misconstruing the change. What State Farm is saying I believe is that your friend who borrows your boat is no longer an insured on the umbrella, so if he borrows it and kills someone, no insurance for him, at least from State Farm. But that doesn't mean that you aren't still an insured if someone sues you as the owner of the boat (they would probably claim you were negligent to loan the boat to someone so obviously unskilled). You are still an insured. Same with the car. In California, car owners are liable for injuries caused by their car no matter what, even if not negligent and not driving, up to $15K for injury to one person and $30K for injury to multiple persons and $5K for property damange. Thus if you loan your car to someone who causes an injury or damage, your auto insurance will cover you up to these limits (by law). But if the umbrella insurance company made your friend an insured, they would have to pay up to the limits of the insurance, because your friend's liablility (assuming he is found to be the negligent driver)is not limited. So by eliminating your friend as an insured, they limit their liability. It's really your friend who is screwed here, not you. Moral of the story, YOU should never borrow someone else's car or boat unless you are sure YOUR insurace covers you. California minimum insurance is 15/30 (I think it is 20/40 now). But if you own the car and own a house and stock, you will be sued for those items by the killed persons heirs. You have the deep pockets and are the owner of the car. |
Umbrella policies being gutted by State Farm
"JimH" ask wrote in message ... "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "HK" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "HK" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "Vic Smith" wrote in message ... On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 20:37:12 -0400, Gene Kearns wrote: On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 18:21:12 -0400, "JimH" ask penned the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: "Hamish" wrote in message ink.net... I am in California. I just got the renewal bill for my personal umbrella policy, and the "Important Notice" brochure that always comes with it said, "The definition of insured is revised so that a person or organization using an insured's auto, RV or watercraft is no longer covered." So, when I let a valet park my car, he's not covered. If I loan my car to a friend, relative, or neighbor, they're not covered. If my ski boat was running - it isn't right now - and I let a friend drive it to tow me, he's not covered. (Yes, I know that my "underlying" car insurance covers them up to the limits of that policy, but those limits are only enough to pay for a stubbed toe.) I called my agent and she was totally unaware of the change, and asked me to fax her a copy of the brochure. Then, once she called the underwriters, she still seemed unconcerned. She was happy to quote me the increase in premiums to bring each of my car polcies up to the same limits that were formerly covered by the Umbrella. An additional $206 per year. I will pay the money, because I own a home and it is vital that I remain insured up to a high limit. I have taken the trouble to write this post because I think that a lot of other people will fail to read the "Important Notice" (the brochure is 17 pages long), will simply write the check like they do every other year, and will end up with a big gap in their coverage. And their insurance agent won't take the trouble to call them or write them a personal letter telling about the big gap that just opened up in their coverage. So, look out! And warn your friends. Ham 1. The valet company should have their own insurance. *You* pay insurance premiums to make sure *you* are covered. Don't assume that anybody else has you covered (they don't, though they may try to indemnify themselves). If you have to take them to court, be sure that you can afford all of the justice that you feel you are entitled to.... 2. Don't loan your car or boat to anyone outside your family. Ok, I'll buy that, but it doesn't cover any non-loaner legitimate use of your vehicle. Boats? Marina re-positioning your boat to another slip (see? says they can do it in the lease agreement..... Personal injury? You have a dangerous boat! Damage? See no evil, hear no evil...... see #1 above) 3. Why should the insurance company cover anyone but you and your family? Because there *are* no-loaner issues to be dealt with.... So what is the big deal? You have equity that other people want.... it really is a BIG DEAL! Bingo. $206 yearly premium increase for the same coverage. --Vic Why in the world would you want to extend your general liability umbrella coverage to any one but your family? If you were smart...........you would pay zero extra as the changes have no effect on you. At a couple of ramps I use, I sometimes have to "manhandle" the boat onto the trailer properly while someone else handles the tow vehicle. Or, at launch, I sometimes stay in the boat while someone else backs down the trailer. **** happens. I'd want coverage for nasty things happening at those times, since I can't handle everything at once. You are still covered as is your boat...............same as you always were. The other guy however is no longer covered by your gl umbrella coverage nor should he be. Hopefully you get it now. Well, if the other guy is driving my truck at the launch ramp, he is using my truck. I'd hate to see that usage excluded. It seems the company wants to insure the driver, not the vehicle, which makes perfect sense. Let's say you have no tickets or accidents for 11 years, and a low premium to go along with it. Your friend's one of these morons who has an accident and a serious ticket every 18 months. Why should your policy cover him? Makes no sense, unless you think the goal of a business is to lose money. His policy should cover him, no matter whose vehicle he's driving. Do you understand what an umbrella policy is? Apparently not. You do not seem to understand an umbrella policy. |
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