On Jul 10, 12:29 am, jps wrote:

Let them apologize for their foolishness...

and I'll go back to writing exclusively about boating in this newsgroup.

jps


ROTF! Remind me again when you ever posted anything here about boating.

On Jul 9, 10:29?pm, jps wrote:
In article .com,
says...

in the group of folks
who won't (quite) always be wrong have to be our esteemed friends with
a more conservative perspective. It is just such a willingness to be
frank, self critical, inclusive, and willing to accept the opposition
as worthy individuals of merit and intelligence (rather than "enemies
of the state") that marks an important difference between liberal
ideology and the politics of hate, blame, and recrimination preached
by the Limbaughs, Hannitys, Savages, etc of the world.

Chuck,

All our "conservative" friends would have to do is admit they were
complete idiots for having ever having believed that the Bush/Cheney
Iraq war was anything but a grab for the world's biggest nearly
unaffiliated pool of oil (it just needed to be liberated from Saddam).

You and the rest of folks from the left suffered through so much
bull**** when this was all coming down.

I want to read their admissions that they were freakin' idiots.

Even Republican leadership is giving up on these bald faced liars. Only
fools would continue to believe this administration is about anything
but protecting the rich and richer and all their agendum.

Let them admit they were sucked in by a group of ill-inspired jackasses
that have reduced this country's ability to compete in the world while
setting us on a rotten footing morally, ethically and spiritually,
who're now threatening the very foundation of our republic by thwarting
and stonewalling the two other branches of government.

If this were Democrats taking the country down, our conservative friends
would be peering through the blinds of their media rooms with their
semi-automatic weapons in hand, looking for cars bearing Kerry/Edwards
stickers to shoot at.

Let them apologize for their foolishness...

and I'll go back to writing exclusively about boating in this newsgroup.

jps

"Blame" isn't important or useful.

When we're up to our bee-hinds in alligators, it doesn't really matter
who can be blamed for failing to drain the swamp.

My perspective is that we are currently facing some serioius problems
as a society. Unfortunately, some of these problems have been
exacerbated by tendencies to divide up and feud among ourselves-
tendencies that have been encouraged by specific factions perhaps more
than others.

We need to come together. It's time to stop blaming everything on
Clinton, for sure, and it's about time to start trying to fix,
together, anything that may have gone sideways under the present
Executive.

Our fellow Americans are not the enemy, but the enemy *might* be those
who try to convince us that our fellow Americans are. In that vein,
getting on somebody's case for being a conservative (or a liberal) or
for previously expressing support for a policy or porgram that so far
hasn't worked out very well is destructive.

Even *if* blame could be assigned (and it can't) and even *if* blame
were accepted (and it will never be), once the blame were assigned and
accepted we would still need to fix whatever problems somebody,
somewhere, is to blame for. Hijacking a thread to start a political
scrap is in the worst traditions of a lot of folks who try to cause
problems rather than solve them- so I wish you wouldn't and I have now
put my 22-cents in. :-) Carry on.

On Jul 11, 4:31 am, Chuck Gould wrote:


We need to come together. It's time to stop blaming everything on
Clinton, for sure, and it's about time to start trying to fix,
together, anything that may have gone sideways under the present
Executive.

And if I answer your three questions, will you let me cross your
bridge? Sandy Berger made sure we will never know how much the
Clintons were involved, had knowledge of, or even told the Bush
administration. Specualate all you want, scream from the top of the
mountain that you beleive the Clintons to the end, then why did they
have to destroy documents, I specualte that they did not tell Bush
everything, but I won't stand on a stump and declare it "truth" beyond
doubt, and call anyone who does not agree, stupid...

On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 21:25:34 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

One of the basic fundamentals of liberalism is inclusion.

~~ cough - hack - spitootie ~~

Man, they must have some real good herb out there. :)

On Jul 10, 6:24 am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 21:25:34 -0700, Chuck Gould

wrote:
One of the basic fundamentals of liberalism is inclusion.

~~ cough - hack - spitootie ~~

Man, they must have some real good herb out there. :)

Speaking of not knowing the difference
Old couple sitting on the porch.
Old lady gets up and slaps the old man off his chair. As he gets up he
asks his wife of 60 years, why she had hit him? She answered, "that's
for having a small member". Next day, old lady gets up and slaps old
man off chair. Again he asks why? She says "that's fo being a lousy
lover". Next day old man gets up and slaps woman off chair, she asks
why? He answeres, "that's for knowing the difference!".
Oh well, hope I don't have to slap you! I am too old to take an ass
whoopin'

On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 21:25:34 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:


Relax, go boating, get a bit more liberal. :-)

Forgot to mention this from a bit more liberal than usual type.

"Get rid of all these rotten politicians that we have in Washington,
who are nothing more than corporate toadies," said Robert F. Kennedy
Jr., the environmentalist author, president of Waterkeeper Alliance
and Robert F. Kennedy's son, who grew hoarse from shouting. "This is
treason. And we need to start treating them as traitors."

He's the guy who thinks boats are bad.

Inclusive - subtle - nuanced - liberal.

On Jul 10, 3:46?am, Tom Francis wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 21:25:34 -0700, Chuck Gould

wrote:

Relax, go boating, get a bit more liberal. :-)

Forgot to mention this from a bit more liberal than usual type.

"Get rid of all these rotten politicians that we have in Washington,
who are nothing more than corporate toadies," said Robert F. Kennedy
Jr., the environmentalist author, president of Waterkeeper Alliance
and Robert F. Kennedy's son, who grew hoarse from shouting. "This is
treason. And we need to start treating them as traitors."

He's the guy who thinks boats are bad.

Inclusive - subtle - nuanced - liberal.

Looking for the worst example of a liberal that you can find is no
more valid than it would be to insist that Ann Coulter or Rush
Limbaugh
are "typical" conservatives.

Stereotypes are a poor substitute for thoughtful evaluation of
individuals.
But they're attractive as heck to the intellectually lazy, the
insecure, and the paranoid defensive types----- so I'm sure that you
would never
need to rely on stereotype.

Tom Francis wrote:

...and Robert F. Kennedy's son, who grew hoarse from shouting. "This is
treason. And we need to start treating them as traitors."

He's the guy who thinks boats are bad.

He said that, "Boats are bad" ?

On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 17:55:28 -0700, jps wrote:

Parse this instead, it's far more useful:

WASHINGTON - An unclassified summary of outed CIA officer Valerie
Plame's employment history at the spy agency, disclosed for the first
time today in a court filing by Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald,
indicates that Plame was "covert" when her name became public in July
2003.

The summary is part of an attachment to Fitzgerald's memorandum to the
court supporting his recommendation that I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Vice
President Cheney's former top aide, spend 2-1/2 to 3 years in prison for
obstructing the CIA leak investigation.

The nature of Plame's CIA employment never came up in Libby's perjury
and obstruction of justice trial.


Undercover travel
The unclassified summary of Plame's employment with the CIA at the time
that syndicated columnist Robert Novak published her name on July 14,
2003 says, "Ms. Wilson was a covert CIA employee for who the CIA was
taking affirmative measures to conceal her intelligence relationship to
the United States."

Plame worked as an operations officer in the Directorate of Operations
and was assigned to the Counterproliferation Division (CPD) in January
2002 at CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia.

The employment history indicates that while she was assigned to CPD,
Plame, "engaged in temporary duty travel overseas on official
business." The report says, "she traveled at least seven times to more
than ten times." When overseas Plame traveled undercover, "sometimes in
true name and sometimes in alias -- but always using cover -- whether
official or non-official (NOC) -- with no ostensible relationship to the
CIA."


......*was*.....


There, it's been parsed.
--
John H

In article , jherring1
@yahoo.com says...
On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 17:55:28 -0700, jps wrote:

Parse this instead, it's far more useful:

WASHINGTON - An unclassified summary of outed CIA officer Valerie
Plame's employment history at the spy agency, disclosed for the first
time today in a court filing by Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald,
indicates that Plame was "covert" when her name became public in July
2003.

The summary is part of an attachment to Fitzgerald's memorandum to the
court supporting his recommendation that I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Vice
President Cheney's former top aide, spend 2-1/2 to 3 years in prison for
obstructing the CIA leak investigation.

The nature of Plame's CIA employment never came up in Libby's perjury
and obstruction of justice trial.


Undercover travel
The unclassified summary of Plame's employment with the CIA at the time
that syndicated columnist Robert Novak published her name on July 14,
2003 says, "Ms. Wilson was a covert CIA employee for who the CIA was
taking affirmative measures to conceal her intelligence relationship to
the United States."

Plame worked as an operations officer in the Directorate of Operations
and was assigned to the Counterproliferation Division (CPD) in January
2002 at CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia.

The employment history indicates that while she was assigned to CPD,
Plame, "engaged in temporary duty travel overseas on official
business." The report says, "she traveled at least seven times to more
than ten times." When overseas Plame traveled undercover, "sometimes in
true name and sometimes in alias -- but always using cover -- whether
official or non-official (NOC) -- with no ostensible relationship to the
CIA."


.....*was*.....

"at the time"

parsed even more.