On Jul 8, 11:52 am, "Jim" wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message

oups.com...
| On Jul 8, 5:11?am, HK wrote:
| Garrison Hilliard wrote:
| 200 People Busted For Alcohol-Related Offenses On The Little Miami
River
| Last Update: Jul 8, 2007 2:26 AM
|
| Close to 200 people fall victim to a sweep on the Little Miami River.
Officials
| in Warren County were targeting alcohol-related offenses, from open
containers
| to underage drinking. The operation left many people drying out and
forced to
| pay a hefty fine.
|
| Many people were feeling the heat, and not because of the temperature.
The main
| objective of this operation is not to ruin activities but to make sure
the
| Little Miami River can be a fun place for the whole family.
|
| Out of sight and undercover, officers from several agencies were
looking to put
| a stop to a common problem. There's a little too much drinking on the
Little
| Miami River. Area residents living around the river complained of rude
and
| obnoxious behavior, enough that something had to be done.
|
| The Sackriders, a local family, agree with Warren County officials who
say
| alcohol and the river don't mix. Most were upset to get ticketed, in
over a few
| hours authorities handed citations close to 200 people.
|
| The violations ranged from underage drinking to littering and life
jacket
| violations. Some people on canoes got stopped more than once for the
most
| popular offense, having an open container. The goal of the crackdown
is to make
| sure the river is a friendly place for local families to make a
splash. Dozens
| of empty beer cans were picked up in the seven-hour sweep
|
| Meanwhile, on the water Chris and Rebecca Sackrider will stick to
drinking
| water. There will be another similar sweep in the near future, but
officials in
| Warren County are not saying when.
|
|
http://www.local12.com/mostpopular/s...d=2ccdfc37-1f6...
|
| Works for me. Drunks on the water are damned dangerous.- Hide quoted
text -
|
| - Show quoted text -
|
| Subtle distinction: The government sweep didn't target drunks, the
| tickets were handed out to people caught with an open bottle of beer
| in a boat. If it's 100 degrees, 3-4 guys are out fishing, and somebody
| other than the person operating the vessel pops open a beer that
| shouldn't be considered a crime. It may be unwise, but if the boat
| operator isn't drinking at the helm it's merely a questionable
| practice and not a crime. IMO.
|
| There's a difference between having a beer on a summer afternoon and
| being a "drunk".
|
| I thought Carrie Nation and Temperance Unions were ancient history.
| Good thing they didn't catch one of the canoeists or kayakers smokin a
| doobie.....if beer warrants a ticket those uptight puritans would
| probably lynch somebody found with a joint.
|
| No wonder the entire world seems to be moving to the west coast! :-)

What the hell is a doobie? Is it one of those new designer drugs?
Does it give you the feeling that Kansas and Nebraska are closing in on the
left coast.
Good to see you a little closer to the fusilage than ol' HK, at least on
this issue. There may be redemption for you yet.
|

All in all, I don't allow any alcoholic beverages on my boat. Most of
my friends don't drink, and the ones that do don't give me any hassle
about my "rule".

Carylyle Lake does a pretty good sweep a couple times a year too. They
don't get wild about "open seal" though, but when none of the boats
occupants can pass the breath blower, then things get interesting.


And it does happen.

Close to 200 people fall victim to a sweep on the Little Miami River.
Officials
in Warren County were targeting alcohol-related offenses, from open
containers
to underage drinking. The operation left many people drying out and
forced to
pay a hefty fine.
.. . .
The violations ranged from underage drinking to littering and life jacket
violations. Some people on canoes got stopped more than once for the most
popular offense, having an open container. The goal of the crackdown is
to make
sure the river is a friendly place for local families to make a splash.
Dozens
of empty beer cans were picked up in the seven-hour sweep
.. . .
http://www.local12.com/mostpopular/s...a-a6dad8d3d7a7

How many of the people who responded actually read (and understood) the
article?
Apparently not many.

This is NOT about people "driving" a vehicle.
Canoes appear to be the boats in question
This is NOT about general boating laws.

This is a quiet, scenic, river that has a special "no alcohol allowed" law
in this area.
They are trying to keep this a "family friendly" area near a state park.
The idea is that it is much easier to enforce a blanket no alcohol policy
than to try to chase down the problem people or have probably cause to
individually check id's on people who are drinking to check their age.

I don't know the details of the river but expect that it is similar to a few
of them around here where people go to kick back while canoeing or tubing.
They are slow, shallow, wide enough to not be difficult but narrow enough to
easily wade across.

You would need to be really wasted (like not be able to stand up) to be in
significant danger on them.

The Cannon (near Cannon Falls, MN) is longer, the primary activity is using
a canoe barely faster than drifting, and the activities are very quiet.

The Apple (near Somerset, WI) has a very different reputation. The water
has a small "rapids" at the end of the commonly used zone.

Googling for "apple river" wisconsin alcohol family, brought this up as the
2nd result.
DrinkingStuff - Content - Pictures - Details
Apple River, Wisconsin... Apple River, Wisconsin... +Zoom In
Submitted on Oct 28, ... what no more alcohol??!! ...shh, you'll wake the
baby. Jump to page: ...
www.drinkingstuff.com/pictures/97 - 47k

WARNIING: NOT FAMILY FRIENDLY

The primary activity is tubing. You park your butt in an inner tube and
drift along the river.
There are campgrounds along the river that have tube rental and some people
go there to party with their underage friends and/or get REALLY drunk and
obnoxious.

From what I have heard, it used to be a lot worse than it is now. The local
people decided that things were getting out of hand and convinced the county
sheriff's department to spend some time cracking down on: underage drinking,
public drunkenness, public sex acts, and littering. There are warnings
about this and you are supposed to pay a deposit on every container you
leave with.

I have been down it several times in the last 15 years and never saw
significant nudity but saw a number of obnoxious drunks. We generally have
a cooler in it's own tube and have a 2-4 beers in the few hours it takes to
drift through the trees. More fun that soaking in a hot tub.
Usually the tubes are tied together into a raft and whomever is towards the
front gives a quick (and sometimes surprised) call of "butts up" to warn
people about a rock near the surface.

--
Bill

On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 12:30:33 -0500, "B Fuhrmann"
wrote:



This is NOT about people "driving" a vehicle.
Canoes appear to be the boats in question
This is NOT about general boating laws.

This is a quiet, scenic, river that has a special "no alcohol allowed" law
in this area.
They are trying to keep this a "family friendly" area near a state park.
The idea is that it is much easier to enforce a blanket no alcohol policy
than to try to chase down the problem people or have probably cause to
individually check id's on people who are drinking to check their age.

Yeah, many state parks and public beaches have "No Alcoholic Beverages
Allowed" signs all over the place. I put Coca-Coca and Dr. Pepper in
the cooler when I go to those places.
After all, it would be embarrassing to be arrested by a lifeguard.

--Vic

On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 17:14:43 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 12:30:33 -0500, "B Fuhrmann"
wrote:



This is NOT about people "driving" a vehicle.
Canoes appear to be the boats in question
This is NOT about general boating laws.

This is a quiet, scenic, river that has a special "no alcohol allowed" law
in this area.
They are trying to keep this a "family friendly" area near a state park.
The idea is that it is much easier to enforce a blanket no alcohol policy
than to try to chase down the problem people or have probably cause to
individually check id's on people who are drinking to check their age.

Yeah, many state parks and public beaches have "No Alcoholic Beverages
Allowed" signs all over the place. I put Coca-Coca and Dr. Pepper in
the cooler when I go to those places.
After all, it would be embarrassing to be arrested by a lifeguard.

In particular if it was Lieutenant Mitch Buchannon .

It goes without saying that if C.J. Parker arrested
you...well...resistance would be futile. :)

On Jul 8, 5:28 pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

It goes without saying that if C.J. Parker arrested
you...well...resistance would be futile.

I'd be forced to counter-sue. Assault with deadly wepons. Not
counting brutality. =:0


(Not only so, but the risk of catching a dose of Hepetitis C)

By this statement, I should be able, as a passenger in a car, to hoist
my open can of brew in a salute to the Fuzz in the next lane. Care to
estimate how long it would take for him to hit the skids, and swoop in
on the 6 O'clock for the kill? I'm not sure you know it, but there IS an
open container law here in Washington. Please explain the legal
difference between a boat and a car in this scenario.
JR

Chuck Gould wrote:

but even if
it's borderline unwise a non-operating adult shouldn't be ticketed for
holding a can of beer on a boat.



--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth

Yeah, many state parks and public beaches have "No Alcoholic Beverages
Allowed" signs all over the place. I put Coca-Coca and Dr. Pepper in
the cooler when I go to those places.
After all, it would be embarrassing to be arrested by a lifeguard.

It wouldn't be a lifeguard arresting you. If they are like Minnesota, the
state parks and larger park systems have their own police officers and the
others can bring in the local authorities quickly.

However, they have better things to do than bust people for alcohol unless
they are causing a problem.

While on a camping trip at a state park, we had a group site (secluded, away
from the main sites). We went for a late night hike and talked with a state
park ranger along the way. He casually asked if we had any alcohol, then
said that if we did, we shouldn't carry it around (we wouldn't anyway) or be
overly loud.

I volunteer with a local (Three Rivers Park District) park district. The
"park patrol" is around for information and first aid. After appropriate
training, we use the trails (skate, bike, hike, ski) and watch for people
who need assistance. Usually it is just to help people figure out where
they are or where something is.
However, if we see a problem, we will call the dispatcher for the park
police.

On Jul 8, 8:59?am, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Jul 8, 5:11?am, HK wrote:
Garrison Hilliard wrote:
200 People Busted For Alcohol-Related Offenses On The Little Miami River
Last Update: Jul 8, 2007 2:26 AM
Close to 200 people fall victim to a sweep on the Little Miami River. Officials
in Warren County were targeting alcohol-related offenses, from open containers
to underage drinking. The operation left many people drying out and forced to
pay a hefty fine.
Many people were feeling the heat, and not because of the temperature. The main
objective of this operation is not to ruin activities but to make sure the
Little Miami River can be a fun place for the whole family.
Out of sight and undercover, officers from several agencies were looking to put
a stop to a common problem. There's a little too much drinking on the Little
Miami River. Area residents living around the river complained of rude and
obnoxious behavior, enough that something had to be done.
The Sackriders, a local family, agree with Warren County officials who say
alcohol and the river don't mix. Most were upset to get ticketed, in over a few
hours authorities handed citations close to 200 people.
The violations ranged from underage drinking to littering and life jacket
violations. Some people on canoes got stopped more than once for the most
popular offense, having an open container. The goal of the crackdown is to make
sure the river is a friendly place for local families to make a splash. Dozens
of empty beer cans were picked up in the seven-hour sweep
Meanwhile, on the water Chris and Rebecca Sackrider will stick to drinking
water. There will be another similar sweep in the near future, but officials in
Warren County are not saying when.
http://www.local12.com/mostpopular/s...d=2ccdfc37-1f6...
Works for me. Drunks on the water are damned dangerous.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Subtle distinction: The government sweep didn't target drunks, the
tickets were handed out to people caught with an open bottle of beer
in a boat. If it's 100 degrees, 3-4 guys are out fishing, and somebody
other than the person operating the vessel pops open a beer that
shouldn't be considered a crime. It may be unwise, but if the boat
operator isn't drinking at the helm it's merely a questionable
practice and not a crime. IMO.

There's a difference between having a beer on a summer afternoon and
being a "drunk".

I thought Carrie Nation and Temperance Unions were ancient history.
Good thing they didn't catch one of the canoeists or kayakers smokin a
doobie.....if beer warrants a ticket those uptight puritans would
probably lynch somebody found with a joint.

No wonder the entire world seems to be moving to the west coast! :-)

You can't drive a car on the highways legally with an open container of
booze. I doubt you could ride a bike doing so, either. But driving a
boat with open containers of booze visible is ok?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There are some important differences between cars and boats.
In most states it's also illegal to operate your car unless everybody
is in a seat belt and normally a shoulder harness. Would you propose a
similar restriction for boats?

A car is nothing more than vehicle of conveyance, while a boat can be
simultaneously a conveyance and a means of accommodation.

I don't suggest the skipper should be drinking underway, but busting
the skipper seated up on the flybridge because a guest down in the
salon is having a cold beer or a glass of Merlot on a summer afternoon
is way over the top.

Good thing there's no actual crime in Ohio, thereby freeing 45 of the
local cops to spend an afternoon preventing the consumption of beer on
the Little Miami river.

On Jul 8, 9:17?am, John Kuthe wrote:
On Jul 8, 11:07 am, "Reginald P. Smithers III"





wrote:
HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Jul 8, 5:11?am, HK wrote:
Garrison Hilliard wrote:
200 People Busted For Alcohol-Related Offenses On The Little Miami
River
Last Update: Jul 8, 2007 2:26 AM
Close to 200 people fall victim to a sweep on the Little Miami
River. Officials
in Warren County were targeting alcohol-related offenses, from open
containers
to underage drinking. The operation left many people drying out and
forced to
pay a hefty fine.
Many people were feeling the heat, and not because of the
temperature. The main
objective of this operation is not to ruin activities but to make
sure the
Little Miami River can be a fun place for the whole family.
Out of sight and undercover, officers from several agencies were
looking to put
a stop to a common problem. There's a little too much drinking on
the Little
Miami River. Area residents living around the river complained of
rude and
obnoxious behavior, enough that something had to be done.
The Sackriders, a local family, agree with Warren County officials
who say
alcohol and the river don't mix. Most were upset to get ticketed, in
over a few
hours authorities handed citations close to 200 people.
The violations ranged from underage drinking to littering and life
jacket
violations. Some people on canoes got stopped more than once for the
most
popular offense, having an open container. The goal of the crackdown
is to make
sure the river is a friendly place for local families to make a
splash. Dozens
of empty beer cans were picked up in the seven-hour sweep
Meanwhile, on the water Chris and Rebecca Sackrider will stick to
drinking
water. There will be another similar sweep in the near future, but
officials in
Warren County are not saying when.
http://www.local12.com/mostpopular/s...d=2ccdfc37-1f6...

Works for me. Drunks on the water are damned dangerous.- Hide quoted
text -

- Show quoted text -

Subtle distinction: The government sweep didn't target drunks, the
tickets were handed out to people caught with an open bottle of beer
in a boat. If it's 100 degrees, 3-4 guys are out fishing, and somebody
other than the person operating the vessel pops open a beer that
shouldn't be considered a crime. It may be unwise, but if the boat
operator isn't drinking at the helm it's merely a questionable
practice and not a crime. IMO.

There's a difference between having a beer on a summer afternoon and
being a "drunk".

I thought Carrie Nation and Temperance Unions were ancient history.
Good thing they didn't catch one of the canoeists or kayakers smokin a
doobie.....if beer warrants a ticket those uptight puritans would
probably lynch somebody found with a joint.

No wonder the entire world seems to be moving to the west coast! :-)

You can't drive a car on the highways legally with an open container of
booze. I doubt you could ride a bike doing so, either. But driving a
boat with open containers of booze visible is ok?

I have heard you say many times, that you have had a beer on a boat on
hot summer day, and that you allow others to drink on your boat, you
just don't allow them to get drunk. Is that ok with you?

People (not an individual person) often get irresponsible and out of
control when alcohol is involved. I've seen it ruin many a perfectly
good, responsible and happy a festive time where many individuals are
enjoying alcohol responsibly.

People SUCK! Remember? We see many instances of this sucky behavior
all the time. Many instances involve alcohol too, unfortunately. Ruins
the good responsible time for the rest of us, yano? :-(

John Kuthe...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So in my opinion we should target the problem people, not a common
behavior in which (as you note) many will participate with voluntary
and responsible restraint.

Chuck Gould wrote:
On Jul 8, 8:59?am, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Jul 8, 5:11?am, HK wrote:
Garrison Hilliard wrote:
200 People Busted For Alcohol-Related Offenses On The Little Miami River
Last Update: Jul 8, 2007 2:26 AM
Close to 200 people fall victim to a sweep on the Little Miami River. Officials
in Warren County were targeting alcohol-related offenses, from open containers
to underage drinking. The operation left many people drying out and forced to
pay a hefty fine.
Many people were feeling the heat, and not because of the temperature. The main
objective of this operation is not to ruin activities but to make sure the
Little Miami River can be a fun place for the whole family.
Out of sight and undercover, officers from several agencies were looking to put
a stop to a common problem. There's a little too much drinking on the Little
Miami River. Area residents living around the river complained of rude and
obnoxious behavior, enough that something had to be done.
The Sackriders, a local family, agree with Warren County officials who say
alcohol and the river don't mix. Most were upset to get ticketed, in over a few
hours authorities handed citations close to 200 people.
The violations ranged from underage drinking to littering and life jacket
violations. Some people on canoes got stopped more than once for the most
popular offense, having an open container. The goal of the crackdown is to make
sure the river is a friendly place for local families to make a splash. Dozens
of empty beer cans were picked up in the seven-hour sweep
Meanwhile, on the water Chris and Rebecca Sackrider will stick to drinking
water. There will be another similar sweep in the near future, but officials in
Warren County are not saying when.
http://www.local12.com/mostpopular/s...d=2ccdfc37-1f6...
Works for me. Drunks on the water are damned dangerous.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Subtle distinction: The government sweep didn't target drunks, the
tickets were handed out to people caught with an open bottle of beer
in a boat. If it's 100 degrees, 3-4 guys are out fishing, and somebody
other than the person operating the vessel pops open a beer that
shouldn't be considered a crime. It may be unwise, but if the boat
operator isn't drinking at the helm it's merely a questionable
practice and not a crime. IMO.
There's a difference between having a beer on a summer afternoon and
being a "drunk".
I thought Carrie Nation and Temperance Unions were ancient history.
Good thing they didn't catch one of the canoeists or kayakers smokin a
doobie.....if beer warrants a ticket those uptight puritans would
probably lynch somebody found with a joint.
No wonder the entire world seems to be moving to the west coast! :-)
You can't drive a car on the highways legally with an open container of
booze. I doubt you could ride a bike doing so, either. But driving a
boat with open containers of booze visible is ok?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There are some important differences between cars and boats.
In most states it's also illegal to operate your car unless everybody
is in a seat belt and normally a shoulder harness. Would you propose a
similar restriction for boats?

A car is nothing more than vehicle of conveyance, while a boat can be
simultaneously a conveyance and a means of accommodation.

I don't suggest the skipper should be drinking underway, but busting
the skipper seated up on the flybridge because a guest down in the
salon is having a cold beer or a glass of Merlot on a summer afternoon
is way over the top.

Good thing there's no actual crime in Ohio, thereby freeing 45 of the
local cops to spend an afternoon preventing the consumption of beer on
the Little Miami river.




I don't spend a lot of time thinking about booze and boats, Chuck. So
far this year, I've had two beers, and both were consumed in my den
after spending four hours mowing my lawn and field. I have one friend
who is an alcoholic. When he comes aboard, I restrict his cooler to two
beers. Maybe once or twice a year, I have a beer on board, but only
while anchored or in a slip.

I don't believe the case you cited involved drinking a glass of wine in
the salon.