On Jul 8, 11:52 am, "Jim" wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message

oups.com...
| On Jul 8, 5:11?am, HK wrote:
| Garrison Hilliard wrote:
| 200 People Busted For Alcohol-Related Offenses On The Little Miami
River
| Last Update: Jul 8, 2007 2:26 AM
|
| Close to 200 people fall victim to a sweep on the Little Miami River.
Officials
| in Warren County were targeting alcohol-related offenses, from open
containers
| to underage drinking. The operation left many people drying out and
forced to
| pay a hefty fine.
|
| Many people were feeling the heat, and not because of the temperature.
The main
| objective of this operation is not to ruin activities but to make sure
the
| Little Miami River can be a fun place for the whole family.
|
| Out of sight and undercover, officers from several agencies were
looking to put
| a stop to a common problem. There's a little too much drinking on the
Little
| Miami River. Area residents living around the river complained of rude
and
| obnoxious behavior, enough that something had to be done.
|
| The Sackriders, a local family, agree with Warren County officials who
say
| alcohol and the river don't mix. Most were upset to get ticketed, in
over a few
| hours authorities handed citations close to 200 people.
|
| The violations ranged from underage drinking to littering and life
jacket
| violations. Some people on canoes got stopped more than once for the
most
| popular offense, having an open container. The goal of the crackdown
is to make
| sure the river is a friendly place for local families to make a
splash. Dozens
| of empty beer cans were picked up in the seven-hour sweep
|
| Meanwhile, on the water Chris and Rebecca Sackrider will stick to
drinking
| water. There will be another similar sweep in the near future, but
officials in
| Warren County are not saying when.
|
|
http://www.local12.com/mostpopular/s...d=2ccdfc37-1f6...
|
| Works for me. Drunks on the water are damned dangerous.- Hide quoted
text -
|
| - Show quoted text -
|
| Subtle distinction: The government sweep didn't target drunks, the
| tickets were handed out to people caught with an open bottle of beer
| in a boat. If it's 100 degrees, 3-4 guys are out fishing, and somebody
| other than the person operating the vessel pops open a beer that
| shouldn't be considered a crime. It may be unwise, but if the boat
| operator isn't drinking at the helm it's merely a questionable
| practice and not a crime. IMO.
|
| There's a difference between having a beer on a summer afternoon and
| being a "drunk".
|
| I thought Carrie Nation and Temperance Unions were ancient history.
| Good thing they didn't catch one of the canoeists or kayakers smokin a
| doobie.....if beer warrants a ticket those uptight puritans would
| probably lynch somebody found with a joint.
|
| No wonder the entire world seems to be moving to the west coast! :-)

What the hell is a doobie? Is it one of those new designer drugs?
Does it give you the feeling that Kansas and Nebraska are closing in on the
left coast.
Good to see you a little closer to the fusilage than ol' HK, at least on
this issue. There may be redemption for you yet.
|

All in all, I don't allow any alcoholic beverages on my boat. Most of
my friends don't drink, and the ones that do don't give me any hassle
about my "rule".

Carylyle Lake does a pretty good sweep a couple times a year too. They
don't get wild about "open seal" though, but when none of the boats
occupants can pass the breath blower, then things get interesting.


And it does happen.

On Jul 8, 10:06?am, Tim wrote:
On Jul 8, 11:52 am, "Jim" wrote:





"Chuck Gould" wrote in message

roups.com...
| On Jul 8, 5:11?am, HK wrote:
| Garrison Hilliard wrote:
| 200 People Busted For Alcohol-Related Offenses On The Little Miami
River
| Last Update: Jul 8, 2007 2:26 AM
|
| Close to 200 people fall victim to a sweep on the Little Miami River.
Officials
| in Warren County were targeting alcohol-related offenses, from open
containers
| to underage drinking. The operation left many people drying out and
forced to
| pay a hefty fine.
|
| Many people were feeling the heat, and not because of the temperature.
The main
| objective of this operation is not to ruin activities but to make sure
the
| Little Miami River can be a fun place for the whole family.
|
| Out of sight and undercover, officers from several agencies were
looking to put
| a stop to a common problem. There's a little too much drinking on the
Little
| Miami River. Area residents living around the river complained of rude
and
| obnoxious behavior, enough that something had to be done.
|
| The Sackriders, a local family, agree with Warren County officials who
say
| alcohol and the river don't mix. Most were upset to get ticketed, in
over a few
| hours authorities handed citations close to 200 people.
|
| The violations ranged from underage drinking to littering and life
jacket
| violations. Some people on canoes got stopped more than once for the
most
| popular offense, having an open container. The goal of the crackdown
is to make
| sure the river is a friendly place for local families to make a
splash. Dozens
| of empty beer cans were picked up in the seven-hour sweep
|
| Meanwhile, on the water Chris and Rebecca Sackrider will stick to
drinking
| water. There will be another similar sweep in the near future, but
officials in
| Warren County are not saying when.
|
|
http://www.local12.com/mostpopular/s...d=2ccdfc37-1f6...
|
| Works for me. Drunks on the water are damned dangerous.- Hide quoted
text -
|
| - Show quoted text -
|
| Subtle distinction: The government sweep didn't target drunks, the
| tickets were handed out to people caught with an open bottle of beer
| in a boat. If it's 100 degrees, 3-4 guys are out fishing, and somebody
| other than the person operating the vessel pops open a beer that
| shouldn't be considered a crime. It may be unwise, but if the boat
| operator isn't drinking at the helm it's merely a questionable
| practice and not a crime. IMO.
|
| There's a difference between having a beer on a summer afternoon and
| being a "drunk".
|
| I thought Carrie Nation and Temperance Unions were ancient history.
| Good thing they didn't catch one of the canoeists or kayakers smokin a
| doobie.....if beer warrants a ticket those uptight puritans would
| probably lynch somebody found with a joint.
|
| No wonder the entire world seems to be moving to the west coast! :-)

What the hell is a doobie? Is it one of those new designer drugs?
Does it give you the feeling that Kansas and Nebraska are closing in on the
left coast.
Good to see you a little closer to the fusilage than ol' HK, at least on
this issue. There may be redemption for you yet.
|

All in all, I don't allow any alcoholic beverages on my boat. Most of
my friends don't drink, and the ones that do don't give me any hassle
about my "rule".

And it should indeed be the skipper's privilege to formulate an
alcohol policy for his or her boat. And it would be for the best if
more boaters had a policy similar to yours......but should it be a
*crime* to allow a guest to enjoy a beer while underway? I think not.




Carylyle Lake does a pretty good sweep a couple times a year too. They
don't get wild about "open seal" though, but when none of the boats
occupants can pass the breath blower, then things get interesting.

And it does happen.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 08:47:28 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

There's a difference between having a beer on a summer afternoon and
being a "drunk".

It's a little more complicated than that.

The combination of alcohol and sun can lead to dehydration - even one
can cause the effect if one hasn't taken precautions by drinking
non-caffinated beverages like water or a sports drink. Even one 12
ounce can of beer can do the trick - in particular if somebody hasn't
eaten or had some water along the way.

If you are just sitting on your house deck, drinking a beer and eating
a burger, that's not going to create a problem as such.

On a boat, that's a whole different story. Movement, wind, the
accelerated dual effect of direct sun and reflected sun can dehydrate
you in short order. Add 12 ounces of beer, it's possible that you can
have or be a problem in short order.

The sad thing is you won't even know it until it happens. All of a
sudden, exhaustion sets in. A cold beer sounds gppd and the effect in
compounded.

When I was active with the local Vollies, I've seen it happen a number
of times on local lakes - I only had one beer.

Never doubted it for a second. :)

I thought Carrie Nation and Temperance Unions were ancient history.
Good thing they didn't catch one of the canoeists or kayakers smokin a
doobie.....if beer warrants a ticket those uptight puritans would
probably lynch somebody found with a joint.

Not the issue and I'm surprised that you would make such a statement.

An open container law bans an open container of alcohol in the
passenger compartment of a vehicle and/or boat. The goal is to stop
people from drinking and driving, it almost goes without saying that
an open container law should stop people from drinking WHILE driving.

And that's really the issue - drinking while driving and boating.

No wonder the entire world seems to be moving to the west coast! :-)

You ought to check our own state's Open Container law then because
it's one of the more drastic ones in terms of fines and effects.

On Jul 8, 12:32?pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 08:47:28 -0700, Chuck Gould

wrote:
There's a difference between having a beer on a summer afternoon and
being a "drunk".

It's a little more complicated than that.

The combination of alcohol and sun can lead to dehydration - even one
can cause the effect if one hasn't taken precautions by drinking
non-caffinated beverages like water or a sports drink. Even one 12
ounce can of beer can do the trick - in particular if somebody hasn't
eaten or had some water along the way.

If you are just sitting on your house deck, drinking a beer and eating
a burger, that's not going to create a problem as such.

On a boat, that's a whole different story. Movement, wind, the
accelerated dual effect of direct sun and reflected sun can dehydrate
you in short order. Add 12 ounces of beer, it's possible that you can
have or be a problem in short order.

The sad thing is you won't even know it until it happens. All of a
sudden, exhaustion sets in. A cold beer sounds gppd and the effect in
compounded.

When I was active with the local Vollies, I've seen it happen a number
of times on local lakes - I only had one beer.

Never doubted it for a second. :)

I thought Carrie Nation and Temperance Unions were ancient history.
Good thing they didn't catch one of the canoeists or kayakers smokin a
doobie.....if beer warrants a ticket those uptight puritans would
probably lynch somebody found with a joint.

Not the issue and I'm surprised that you would make such a statement.

An open container law bans an open container of alcohol in the
passenger compartment of a vehicle and/or boat. The goal is to stop
people from drinking and driving, it almost goes without saying that
an open container law should stop people from drinking WHILE driving.

And that's really the issue - drinking while driving and boating.

No wonder the entire world seems to be moving to the west coast! :-)

You ought to check our own state's Open Container law then because
it's one of the more drastic ones in terms of fines and effects.

I agree that it's questionable to allow people to drink on board, but
there's a sliding scale of risk that effectively decreases as the size
of the boat increases. Those large charter and sightseeing boats run
non-stop bars. Booze was easily available on our recent cruise ship
vacation 24 hours a day. 2400 passengers, most of them drinking at
least a little bit every day for a week straight and some almost non-
stop, and not a single incident where the safety of the vessel was
compromised or the risk of going overboard was dramatically increased.

I offer again my example from earlier in this thread. Joe Doaks has a
party of guests out for an afternoon cruise. Joe isn't drinking, and
in fact he's piloting the boat from the flybridge. Down below in the
salon, Mrs. Doaks is serving Margaritas to a couple guests of legal
drinking age. Is Joe Doaks a criminal? Should he be hauled into court
and made to answer for his behavior? In many states, certain boating
offenses cross reference to your vehicular driving license, so should
stone sober Joe's car insurance be cancelled or his premiums be
doubled because somebody else on his boat (well out of reach of the
skipper) had an alcoholic beverage?

Last year at our Seafair hydroplane races the Seattle cops did one of
these mass arrest deals. They had to rent portable jails to lock up
everybody they were processing. The difference was, the Seattle cops
where targeting people exhibiting drunken behavior (not merely people
who might be having a beer while watching the hydroplane races). The
Seattle cops also focused on underage drinkers.

I've always like the European approach to alcohol. In many societies
it's common to serve beer to school kids, and entire families often
enjoy a drink together. The difference is that becoming publicly
intoxicated is a very serious screw up, and getting caught DWI will
typically result in very serious punishment even for "first
offenders".

On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 20:03:59 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

I offer again my example from earlier in this thread. Joe Doaks has a
party of guests out for an afternoon cruise. Joe isn't drinking, and
in fact he's piloting the boat from the flybridge. Down below in the
salon, Mrs. Doaks is serving Margaritas to a couple guests of legal
drinking age. Is Joe Doaks a criminal? Should he be hauled into court
and made to answer for his behavior? In many states, certain boating
offenses cross reference to your vehicular driving license, so should
stone sober Joe's car insurance be cancelled or his premiums be
doubled because somebody else on his boat (well out of reach of the
skipper) had an alcoholic beverage?

How do you make the distinction between passengers and Captain? Do
the passengers have a sign on their backs that says "Passenger"?

Look, I'm not totally convinced that the situation that originated
this discussion was reasonable - there is a point where enforcing the
law requires descretion and balance - I totally agree.

However, if there is a history of abuse in a particular area and the
users and bordering neighbors complain about same, then drastic
enforcement may be required as a warning.

I'm sure the cops would much rather be out doing other things than
bsting some poor stiff who had a Bud while paddling down the river.

On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 20:03:59 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

snippity-snip

I've always like the European approach to alcohol. In many societies
it's common to serve beer to school kids, and entire families often
enjoy a drink together. The difference is that becoming publicly
intoxicated is a very serious screw up, and getting caught DWI will
typically result in very serious punishment even for "first
offenders".

In a lot of European countries the tradition of giving wine and beer
to kids at meals comes from the poor quality of their water supply.
Mark E. Williams

Close to 200 people fall victim to a sweep on the Little Miami River.
Officials
in Warren County were targeting alcohol-related offenses, from open
containers
to underage drinking. The operation left many people drying out and
forced to
pay a hefty fine.
.. . .
The violations ranged from underage drinking to littering and life jacket
violations. Some people on canoes got stopped more than once for the most
popular offense, having an open container. The goal of the crackdown is
to make
sure the river is a friendly place for local families to make a splash.
Dozens
of empty beer cans were picked up in the seven-hour sweep
.. . .
http://www.local12.com/mostpopular/s...a-a6dad8d3d7a7

How many of the people who responded actually read (and understood) the
article?
Apparently not many.

This is NOT about people "driving" a vehicle.
Canoes appear to be the boats in question
This is NOT about general boating laws.

This is a quiet, scenic, river that has a special "no alcohol allowed" law
in this area.
They are trying to keep this a "family friendly" area near a state park.
The idea is that it is much easier to enforce a blanket no alcohol policy
than to try to chase down the problem people or have probably cause to
individually check id's on people who are drinking to check their age.

I don't know the details of the river but expect that it is similar to a few
of them around here where people go to kick back while canoeing or tubing.
They are slow, shallow, wide enough to not be difficult but narrow enough to
easily wade across.

You would need to be really wasted (like not be able to stand up) to be in
significant danger on them.

The Cannon (near Cannon Falls, MN) is longer, the primary activity is using
a canoe barely faster than drifting, and the activities are very quiet.

The Apple (near Somerset, WI) has a very different reputation. The water
has a small "rapids" at the end of the commonly used zone.

Googling for "apple river" wisconsin alcohol family, brought this up as the
2nd result.
DrinkingStuff - Content - Pictures - Details
Apple River, Wisconsin... Apple River, Wisconsin... +Zoom In
Submitted on Oct 28, ... what no more alcohol??!! ...shh, you'll wake the
baby. Jump to page: ...
www.drinkingstuff.com/pictures/97 - 47k

WARNIING: NOT FAMILY FRIENDLY

The primary activity is tubing. You park your butt in an inner tube and
drift along the river.
There are campgrounds along the river that have tube rental and some people
go there to party with their underage friends and/or get REALLY drunk and
obnoxious.

From what I have heard, it used to be a lot worse than it is now. The local
people decided that things were getting out of hand and convinced the county
sheriff's department to spend some time cracking down on: underage drinking,
public drunkenness, public sex acts, and littering. There are warnings
about this and you are supposed to pay a deposit on every container you
leave with.

I have been down it several times in the last 15 years and never saw
significant nudity but saw a number of obnoxious drunks. We generally have
a cooler in it's own tube and have a 2-4 beers in the few hours it takes to
drift through the trees. More fun that soaking in a hot tub.
Usually the tubes are tied together into a raft and whomever is towards the
front gives a quick (and sometimes surprised) call of "butts up" to warn
people about a rock near the surface.

--
Bill

On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 12:30:33 -0500, "B Fuhrmann"
wrote:



This is NOT about people "driving" a vehicle.
Canoes appear to be the boats in question
This is NOT about general boating laws.

This is a quiet, scenic, river that has a special "no alcohol allowed" law
in this area.
They are trying to keep this a "family friendly" area near a state park.
The idea is that it is much easier to enforce a blanket no alcohol policy
than to try to chase down the problem people or have probably cause to
individually check id's on people who are drinking to check their age.

Yeah, many state parks and public beaches have "No Alcoholic Beverages
Allowed" signs all over the place. I put Coca-Coca and Dr. Pepper in
the cooler when I go to those places.
After all, it would be embarrassing to be arrested by a lifeguard.

--Vic

On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 17:14:43 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 12:30:33 -0500, "B Fuhrmann"
wrote:



This is NOT about people "driving" a vehicle.
Canoes appear to be the boats in question
This is NOT about general boating laws.

This is a quiet, scenic, river that has a special "no alcohol allowed" law
in this area.
They are trying to keep this a "family friendly" area near a state park.
The idea is that it is much easier to enforce a blanket no alcohol policy
than to try to chase down the problem people or have probably cause to
individually check id's on people who are drinking to check their age.

Yeah, many state parks and public beaches have "No Alcoholic Beverages
Allowed" signs all over the place. I put Coca-Coca and Dr. Pepper in
the cooler when I go to those places.
After all, it would be embarrassing to be arrested by a lifeguard.

In particular if it was Lieutenant Mitch Buchannon .

It goes without saying that if C.J. Parker arrested
you...well...resistance would be futile. :)

On Jul 8, 5:28 pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

It goes without saying that if C.J. Parker arrested
you...well...resistance would be futile.

I'd be forced to counter-sue. Assault with deadly wepons. Not
counting brutality. =:0


(Not only so, but the risk of catching a dose of Hepetitis C)