The great debate is over
 

"Tim" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jun 2, 3:23 pm, John H. wrote:



BTW, John, this obviously isn't it, but my Guzzi that got me though
college was exactly like this with enception of the Speedo and Tach
cluster, I later put a Wixom fairing on it, to keep down on the winter
cold when the weather would permit riding. and when you're a young
college student, that was about any time there wasn't ice on the
pavement.

http://www.tlm.nl/specials/restaurat...ldorado_LH.jpg


Cute little bike.

This is a real bike. :-)

http://www.eisboch.com/Ultra2007.jpg

Eisboch

The great debate is over
 

On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 15:23:08 -0500, John H.
wrote:

I've had a wobble show up in curves on my Guzzi

Well that explains a lot...

The great debate is over
 

On Jun 2, 4:36 pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 15:23:08 -0500, John H.
wrote:

I've had a wobble show up in curves on my Guzzi

Well that explains a lot...

LOL!!!

The great debate is over
 

On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 20:59:53 -0000, Tim wrote:

On Jun 2, 3:23 pm, John H. wrote:


I've had a wobble show up in
curves on my Guzzi.


Y'know? That's one of the LAST Motorcycle mfj's I would think that
would have that problem.

BTW, John, this obviously isn't it, but my Guzzi that got me though
college was exactly like this with enception of the Speedo and Tach
cluster, I later put a Wixom fairing on it, to keep down on the winter
cold when the weather would permit riding. and when you're a young
college student, that was about any time there wasn't ice on the
pavement.

http://www.tlm.nl/specials/restaurat...ldorado_LH.jpg

Very cool! I had an Eldorado for a while, but only to fix up and then sell.
They are very popular, still, with the Guzzi folks, so I was able to make a
pretty good profit on it. It's a shame you don't still have it!

The Mille GT was one of the few big bikes Guzzi made with a small, plastic
front fender. And the fender provided no bracing whatsoever. I put the
front end from an 850T on it, and the wobble problem went away.

The site you discovered was from Teo Lamer's shop in the Netherlands. Teo
is the one who loaned me a bike a couple years ago for a trip we took down
to the Cote d'Azur and back up through the French Alps. What a coincidence
that you should get his site! He's the biggest Guzzi dealer in the
Netherlands, and one of the biggest in Europe.

The great debate is over
 

On Jun 2, 4:28 pm, "RCE" wrote:
"Tim" wrote in message

ups.com...

On Jun 2, 3:23 pm, John H. wrote:

BTW, John, this obviously isn't it, but my Guzzi that got me though
college was exactly like this with enception of the Speedo and Tach
cluster, I later put a Wixom fairing on it, to keep down on the winter
cold when the weather would permit riding. and when you're a young
college student, that was about any time there wasn't ice on the
pavement.

http://www.tlm.nl/specials/restaurat...ldorado_LH.jpg

Cute little bike.

This is a real bike. :-)

http://www.eisboch.com/Ultra2007.jpg

Eisboch

That's a "real" bike?

I DO have one of these, though. however, very unrestored. for a couple
thousand, i could make it rideable, and for about another 15K I could
make it mint.

http://magasi.net/images/Indian-Chief-1947.jpg

The great debate is over
 

"Tim" wrote in message
ps.com...
On Jun 2, 4:28 pm, "RCE" wrote:
"Tim" wrote in message

ups.com...

On Jun 2, 3:23 pm, John H. wrote:

BTW, John, this obviously isn't it, but my Guzzi that got me though
college was exactly like this with enception of the Speedo and Tach
cluster, I later put a Wixom fairing on it, to keep down on the winter
cold when the weather would permit riding. and when you're a young
college student, that was about any time there wasn't ice on the
pavement.

http://www.tlm.nl/specials/restaurat...ldorado_LH.jpg

Cute little bike.

This is a real bike. :-)

http://www.eisboch.com/Ultra2007.jpg

Eisboch

That's a "real" bike?

I DO have one of these, though. however, very unrestored. for a couple
thousand, i could make it rideable, and for about another 15K I could
make it mint.

http://magasi.net/images/Indian-Chief-1947.jpg



I know where there is a 50's vintage Indian laying on it's side in a
Connecticut farm field. Been there since the early 60's.

Someday .....


Eisboch

The great debate is over
 

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"JimH" wrote in message
...


http://ist-socrates.berkeley.edu/~fa...g/Steering.htm

http://www.terrycolon.com/1features/bike2.html

Looks like countersteering is the initial process in turning a bicycle as
one *has* to lean into the turn, even at slow speeds (where the lean is
not obvious).

My apologies to you and John. ;-)


No apologies necessary, to me anyway. You said nothing to offend me.

Ok ... got air in the tire on the bicycle finally and pedaled off down our
long, sloping driveway.
To my surprise, although the effect is there, it is very subtle when
compared to that on the Harley, so much so that I had to try it over and
over to convince myself it was there.
There is absolutely no question on the Harley .. a gentle push will
initiate a major course change, but not so on the bicycle. I tried at
various speeds up to 14 mph and didn't notice a whole lot of difference.
The effect *is* there, but you actually have to be looking for it to
notice and to not confuse it with other balance issues. I can clearly
see why a non-motorcyclist like ShortWave could hop on a bicycle looking
to experience countersteering and wondering what the heck we were talking
about.

I also have a new theory. I suspect that countersteering is more
pronounced the heavier the two-wheeled vehicle is. On the 1000 lb Harley
(bike and rider) the effect is very pronounced.
I suspect a smaller, lighter dirt bike would not exhibit the effect to the
same degree.

Yep, as brought out in the links I provided.

On the ride home from the boat I asked my wife which way she would turn the
handlebars on a bicycle to turn right........her answer was the same as mine
when I originally posted the twin engine boat stearing analogy.

We just do not see the counterstearing effect on bicycles because it is
indeed so subtle as I pointed out earlier. ;-)

The great debate is over
 

On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 21:18:53 -0000, Tim wrote:

On Jun 2, 5:12 pm, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 20:59:53 -0000, Tim wrote:
On Jun 2, 3:23 pm, John H. wrote:

I've had a wobble show up in
curves on my Guzzi.

Y'know? That's one of the LAST Motorcycle mfj's I would think that
would have that problem.

BTW, John, this obviously isn't it, but my Guzzi that got me though
college was exactly like this with enception of the Speedo and Tach
cluster, I later put a Wixom fairing on it, to keep down on the winter
cold when the weather would permit riding. and when you're a young
college student, that was about any time there wasn't ice on the
pavement.

http://www.tlm.nl/specials/restaurat...ldorado_LH.jpg

Very cool! I had an Eldorado for a while, but only to fix up and then sell.
They are very popular, still, with the Guzzi folks, so I was able to make a
pretty good profit on it. It's a shame you don't still have it!

The Mille GT was one of the few big bikes Guzzi made with a small, plastic
front fender. And the fender provided no bracing whatsoever. I put the
front end from an 850T on it, and the wobble problem went away.

The site you discovered was from Teo Lamer's shop in the Netherlands. Teo
is the one who loaned me a bike a couple years ago for a trip we took down
to the Cote d'Azur and back up through the French Alps. What a coincidence
that you should get his site! He's the biggest Guzzi dealer in the
Netherlands, and one of the biggest in Europe.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Cool that you got a bike from him for your tour. Interesting to note,
that riders in Italy will actually order a bike through him and pay
all he duties, and shipping to get it back to Italy, Because he has
them when nobody else does, like he's the first in line.

the reason my Tach and Speedo cluster was different, is because when I
got the bike somebody had vandalized it at a bar, and took a tire iron
to them. amazing that was the only damage done, but the guy got hauled
off before he could do worse. Anyhow, I found a speedometer mount from
a '68 V-7, so my Guzzzi, was almost all Eldo, with a little bit of
Ambassador thrown on top.

The Mille GT was one of the few big bikes Guzzi made with a small, plastic
front fender. And the fender provided no bracing whatsoever. I put the
front end from an 850T on it, and the wobble problem went away.

Makes one wonder what they were thinking, doesn't it?

You're Mille, didn't still have the backward shifting did it?

No, the shift on the Mille is the regular shift. I don't have floorboards.

The great debate is over
 

On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 21:36:25 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 15:23:08 -0500, John H.
wrote:

I've had a wobble show up in curves on my Guzzi

Well that explains a lot...

Man, you're on a cruel streak today. How's your appetite?

The great debate is over
 

On Jun 2, 2:58 pm, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 08:11:59 -0700, wrote:

. (Like a total dumb ass, I wasn't wearing leathers or even a
shirt. Hell, I was trying to get a suntan!)-
- Show quoted text -

If your gonna wear skin, you might as well just get in a car ;)

????-


Joking about wearing chaps or a brain bucket... cough, cough, which I
think are just dandy things to do BTW.. ;), just not on a bike, but
then I don't ride anymore.

The great debate is over
 

wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jun 2, 2:58 pm, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 08:11:59 -0700,
wrote:

. (Like a total dumb ass, I wasn't wearing leathers or even a
shirt. Hell, I was trying to get a suntan!)-
- Show quoted text -

If your gonna wear skin, you might as well just get in a car ;)

????-


Joking about wearing chaps or a brain bucket... cough, cough, which I
think are just dandy things to do BTW.. ;), just not on a bike, but
then I don't ride anymore.



Don't own chaps or boots. Wear Levi's and sneakers. Sometimes even shorts
if it's hot.
Only wear a brain bucket because I *have* to in this state and remove it as
soon as I get north to NH or south to CT.

I concentrate on not crashing, not on what I am wearing if case I do.

Eisboch

The great debate is over
 

On Jun 2, 8:33 pm, "RCE" wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...





On Jun 2, 2:58 pm, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 08:11:59 -0700,
wrote:

. (Like a total dumb ass, I wasn't wearing leathers or even a
shirt. Hell, I was trying to get a suntan!)-
- Show quoted text -

If your gonna wear skin, you might as well just get in a car ;)

????-

Joking about wearing chaps or a brain bucket... cough, cough, which I
think are just dandy things to do BTW.. ;), just not on a bike, but
then I don't ride anymore.

Don't own chaps or boots. Wear Levi's and sneakers. Sometimes even shorts
if it's hot.
Only wear a brain bucket because I *have* to in this state and remove it as
soon as I get north to NH or south to CT.

I concentrate on not crashing, not on what I am wearing if case I do.

Eisboch- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yeah, I grew up in northern CT, it was always a pain to have to carry
a bucket just in case we decided to travel north, ;) They got me a few
times, but never gave me a ticket in Mass.

The great debate is over
 

On Sat, 2 Jun 2007 20:33:32 -0400, "RCE" wrote:


wrote in message
roups.com...
On Jun 2, 2:58 pm, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 08:11:59 -0700,
wrote:

. (Like a total dumb ass, I wasn't wearing leathers or even a
shirt. Hell, I was trying to get a suntan!)-
- Show quoted text -

If your gonna wear skin, you might as well just get in a car ;)

????-

Joking about wearing chaps or a brain bucket... cough, cough, which I
think are just dandy things to do BTW.. ;), just not on a bike, but
then I don't ride anymore.

Don't own chaps or boots. Wear Levi's and sneakers. Sometimes even shorts
if it's hot.
Only wear a brain bucket because I *have* to in this state and remove it as
soon as I get north to NH or south to CT.

I concentrate on not crashing, not on what I am wearing if case I do.

Out of curiosity, do you wear seatbelts when you are in a car?

The great debate is over
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...

Out of curiosity, do you wear seatbelts when you are in a car?

Sometimes. Not always. It depends on traffic.

Eisboch

The great debate is over
 

RCE wrote:
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...

Out of curiosity, do you wear seatbelts when you are in a car?

Sometimes. Not always. It depends on traffic.

Eisboch


Eisboch,
If it was only the driver who was affected, it really should be an
individual decision. The problem is a head or spine injury it normally
places a financial burden on society, plus I would guess your family
would be ****ed off if you died.

PS - My mother survived a 45mph head on collision (the equivalent of
driving 90 mph into a brick wall) and was out of the hospital in 11
days, because she was wearing her seat belt. They really do work.

The great debate is over
 

"Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in message
. ..
RCE wrote:
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...

Out of curiosity, do you wear seatbelts when you are in a car?

Sometimes. Not always. It depends on traffic.

Eisboch
Eisboch,
If it was only the driver who was affected, it really should be an
individual decision. The problem is a head or spine injury it normally
places a financial burden on society, plus I would guess your family would
be ****ed off if you died.

PS - My mother survived a 45mph head on collision (the equivalent of
driving 90 mph into a brick wall) and was out of the hospital in 11 days,
because she was wearing her seat belt. They really do work.



I am happy to hear that in your mother's case the seat belts prevented more
serious injury.

The rest I've heard many times and choose to choose.

Eisboch

The great debate is over
 

On Jun 3, 5:51 am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jun 2007 20:33:32 -0400, "RCE" wrote:



Out of curiosity, do you wear seatbelts when you are in a car?- Hide quoted text -



Yes, otherwise its $55. bucks if you don't.

I don't mind wearing a seat belt in the car, or a brain bucket on a
MC.. it's sort of irritating at first, but when you get used to it,
you feel wierd if you don't use them.

I wear a floatation vest in the boat as well.

The great debate is over
 

On Sat, 2 Jun 2007 20:33:32 -0400, "RCE" wrote:


wrote in message
roups.com...
On Jun 2, 2:58 pm, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 08:11:59 -0700,
wrote:

. (Like a total dumb ass, I wasn't wearing leathers or even a
shirt. Hell, I was trying to get a suntan!)-
- Show quoted text -

If your gonna wear skin, you might as well just get in a car ;)

????-


Joking about wearing chaps or a brain bucket... cough, cough, which I
think are just dandy things to do BTW.. ;), just not on a bike, but
then I don't ride anymore.



Don't own chaps or boots. Wear Levi's and sneakers. Sometimes even shorts
if it's hot.
Only wear a brain bucket because I *have* to in this state and remove it as
soon as I get north to NH or south to CT.

I concentrate on not crashing, not on what I am wearing if case I do.

Eisboch


That would be against any and all advice I'd give you. Long sleeves, long
pants, gloves, cover your ankles, and definitely wear a helmet. I won't
give you my rationale for helmet laws, but it has to do with protecting the
mentally disabled. :)

The great debate is over
 

On Sun, 3 Jun 2007 08:05:06 -0400, "RCE" wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .

Out of curiosity, do you wear seatbelts when you are in a car?

Sometimes. Not always. It depends on traffic.

No problem - as I said, just curious.

Here in CT, as you know, there are no requirements for helmets for
drivers - there are rider laws however I believe.

I just find it interesting that the anti-helmet crowd seems to be
firmly in the seatbelt law camp. Two years ago, there was another
attempt to get a helmet law initiated in CT. The main opposition to
this law was led by a State Senator who has initiated all kinds of
safety laws for cars including the new onerous fine schedule for
speeding.

The day the law was defeated in the Senate, he was caught driving down
I-91 at 92 mph, 1. on the breathalyzer and no seat belt.

Seatbelt laws suck and should be removed for adults to make their own
choice.

The great debate is over
 

On Jun 2, 7:33 pm, "RCE" wrote:


I concentrate on not crashing, not on what I am wearing if case I do.

Eisboch-


So do these guys. but still ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrS89x6zAHo

The great debate is over
 

On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 20:51:52 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:



As in give you gas?


Speaking of which, how was your motorcycle class? Wasn't that this past
weekend?