Good news for boaters? Oil prices headed down?
 

http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/WAmetro.asp

Throughout nearly every major market in my home state, retail prices
for refined products were off a fraction of a cent or so on Monday
when compared to the previous day.

By the way, this is an interesting site. You can look up your own
state and track fuel pricing. On the home page of the fuel gauge
report there's a chart tracking the retail and wholesale prices of
refined products, as well as the cost of a bbl of oil at the wellhead.
There are fairly parallel lines in the retail and wholesale prices,
(although the fact that the margin between retail and wholesale is
currently below recent averages tends to dampen any optimism fostered
by a partial cent drop in retail pricing). Looking at the very flat
line on the bottom of the chart, it's easy to visualize that the price
of crude oil has next to zero effect on the price of refined products.

Good news for boaters? Oil prices headed down?
 

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
oups.com...
http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/WAmetro.asp

Throughout nearly every major market in my home state, retail prices
for refined products were off a fraction of a cent or so on Monday
when compared to the previous day.

By the way, this is an interesting site. You can look up your own
state and track fuel pricing. On the home page of the fuel gauge
report there's a chart tracking the retail and wholesale prices of
refined products, as well as the cost of a bbl of oil at the wellhead.
There are fairly parallel lines in the retail and wholesale prices,
(although the fact that the margin between retail and wholesale is
currently below recent averages tends to dampen any optimism fostered
by a partial cent drop in retail pricing). Looking at the very flat
line on the bottom of the chart, it's easy to visualize that the price
of crude oil has next to zero effect on the price of refined products.

Lucky you.

Including yesterdays increase here in Central Florida, the price is up about
$0.10 in the past week.

Good news for boaters? Oil prices headed down?
 

Chuck Gould wrote:
http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/WAmetro.asp

Throughout nearly every major market in my home state, retail prices
for refined products were off a fraction of a cent or so on Monday
when compared to the previous day.


A fractional fluctuation and you think oil prices are headed down? You
really are the Pollyanna of "wrecked.boats." I think the bell is
beginning to toll for the powerboat industry, especially for those in
the large powerboat sector. That would be a good thing.

Good news for boaters? Oil prices headed down?
 

On May 16, 5:16 am, HK wrote:

I think the bell is
beginning to toll for the powerboat industry, especially for those in
the large powerboat sector. That would be a good thing.

Tell us how you really feel, Harry.

You're rooting and hoping for a collapse of the powerboat industry?
Especially large powerboats? (Do you have any idea how that would
impact the value of the five hundred thousand or so you have invested
in your lobster boat?)

Aside from name calling and making nasty comments, what the hell are
you doing hanging out in a forum that is supposed to be for *boaters*?

Perhaps your disruptive behavior in the NG is additional evidence of
your disdain for powerboating?

Have you checked rec.boats.paddle? Once you find a buyer for your
Parker, and since you only once ever reported going *anywhere* in your
otherwise absolutely unused and extremely well-hidden lobster boat, I
believe you will be down to "half a canoe".

Good news for boaters? Oil prices headed down?
 

On May 16, 6:21 am, wrote:
On 16 May 2007 01:27:04 -0700, Chuck Gould





wrote:
http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/WAmetro.asp

Throughout nearly every major market in my home state, retail prices
for refined products were off a fraction of a cent or so on Monday
when compared to the previous day.

By the way, this is an interesting site. You can look up your own
state and track fuel pricing. On the home page of the fuel gauge
report there's a chart tracking the retail and wholesale prices of
refined products, as well as the cost of a bbl of oil at the wellhead.
There are fairly parallel lines in the retail and wholesale prices,
(although the fact that the margin between retail and wholesale is
currently below recent averages tends to dampen any optimism fostered
by a partial cent drop in retail pricing). Looking at the very flat
line on the bottom of the chart, it's easy to visualize that the price
of crude oil has next to zero effect on the price of refined products.

I likehttp://www.gasbuddy.com/
--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

eMail


Homepagehttp://pamandgene.idleplay.net/

Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguidehttp://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats
-----------------www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com- *Completion*Retention*Speed*
Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road
------------------ Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That's a good site as well.

And most of the trend lines reported there say "level", with a few
individual areas headed down and only Louisiana headed up.

Maybe I'm too optimistic, but I think we may be at or near the top for
this year. Doesn't cost anythng to be hopeful, and we know that gas
pricing will change. Whether we're paying 15-20 cents more in a couple
of weeks or 15-20 cents less that will be a change and if there are
indicators that prices are beginning to level off or even drop the
change could be for the better.

Good news for boaters? Oil prices headed down?
 

Chuck Gould wrote:
On May 16, 5:16 am, HK wrote:

I think the bell is
beginning to toll for the powerboat industry, especially for those in
the large powerboat sector. That would be a good thing.

Tell us how you really feel, Harry.

You're rooting and hoping for a collapse of the powerboat industry?
Especially large powerboats? (Do you have any idea how that would
impact the value of the five hundred thousand or so you have invested
in your lobster boat?)

Aside from name calling and making nasty comments, what the hell are
you doing hanging out in a forum that is supposed to be for *boaters*?

Perhaps your disruptive behavior in the NG is additional evidence of
your disdain for powerboating?

Have you checked rec.boats.paddle? Once you find a buyer for your
Parker, and since you only once ever reported going *anywhere* in your
otherwise absolutely unused and extremely well-hidden lobster boat, I
believe you will be down to "half a canoe".




I'd like to see a return to smaller boats. I think it would be better
for boating, better for the environment and help alleviate over-crowding
at facilities. I think it makes for better boaters, too.

When I was a young boy and then a teen-ager, and literally lived a third
of the year at water's edge, I rarely encountered any powerboats larger
than 30-34 feet, even at my father's marina, at the adjacent marinas, or
at marinas or boat clubs we visited. Most powerboats, other than
rowboats and skiffs, were between 16' and 25', inboard, outboard, and
I/O. Boating was far more affordable at the point of purchase, and in
terms of operation and maintenance, and I am not discounting the impact
of inflation.

Cripes, you can't even get into some of the better harbors anymore
because they are overclogged with 40-60 foot barges. Screw 'em.

My livelihood doesn't depend upon boats or the industry that produces or
looks after larger boats. If I were boat shopping right now, I'd
probably buy a 21-footer for use around here and down in the ocean at
Virginia Beach.

Good news for boaters? Oil prices headed down?
 

On 16 May 2007 07:28:39 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

You're rooting and hoping for a collapse of the powerboat industry?
Especially large powerboats?

I don't know about large powerboats, but I stopped to visit a friend
of mine at the old Lake Webster Marina this morning and he was just
flat out depressed. Hasn't sold a new boat in 8 months and he's more
more used boats on consignment than I've ever seen there - easily 60
boats - all mid-range from 25K to 60k.

Gotta wonder about that.

Good news for boaters? Oil prices headed down?
 

On May 16, 7:45 am, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On May 16, 5:16 am, HK wrote:

I think the bell is
beginning to toll for the powerboat industry, especially for those in
the large powerboat sector. That would be a good thing.

Tell us how you really feel, Harry.

You're rooting and hoping for a collapse of the powerboat industry?
Especially large powerboats? (Do you have any idea how that would
impact the value of the five hundred thousand or so you have invested
in your lobster boat?)

Aside from name calling and making nasty comments, what the hell are
you doing hanging out in a forum that is supposed to be for *boaters*?

Perhaps your disruptive behavior in the NG is additional evidence of
your disdain for powerboating?

Have you checked rec.boats.paddle? Once you find a buyer for your
Parker, and since you only once ever reported going *anywhere* in your
otherwise absolutely unused and extremely well-hidden lobster boat, I
believe you will be down to "half a canoe".

I'd like to see a return to smaller boats. I think it would be better
for boating, better for the environment and help alleviate over-crowding
at facilities. I think it makes for better boaters, too.

When I was a young boy and then a teen-ager, and literally lived a third
of the year at water's edge, I rarely encountered any powerboats larger
than 30-34 feet, even at my father's marina, at the adjacent marinas, or
at marinas or boat clubs we visited. Most powerboats, other than
rowboats and skiffs, were between 16' and 25', inboard, outboard, and
I/O. Boating was far more affordable at the point of purchase, and in
terms of operation and maintenance, and I am not discounting the impact
of inflation.

Cripes, you can't even get into some of the better harbors anymore
because they are overclogged with 40-60 foot barges. Screw 'em.

My livelihood doesn't depend upon boats or the industry that produces or
looks after larger boats. If I were boat shopping right now, I'd
probably buy a 21-footer for use around here and down in the ocean at
Virginia Beach.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The average LOA of boats registered in most states is under 20-feet.

The companies that build those trailer boats offset a lot of their
costs with the very high markups earned in the 40-60+ category.
Competition is pretty fierce in the trailer boat arena, people tend to
shop for them with a mind set similar to looking for a "car deal", and
the production of large boats indeed subsidizes the small boat buyer.
When and if big boats go away, expect to pay a lot more for smaller
boats offered by any builders that manage to survive.

The infrastructure in those "clogged harbors" depends upon the trade
of medium and larger size boats. How long would the local fuel dock
remain in business if every customer showed up with a six-gallon
portable outboard tank and nobody took on 200 or 300 gallons of fuel
in a single transaction? Once again, the suppliers who survive would
be forced to charge significantly more.

Maybe things haven't really changed as much as you suspect. There
could be no serious debate that the vast majority of powerboats are
still under 25-feet- but because there are more boats than ever before
there are also more medium and large boats than ever.

When people start to bitch that you guys in the little boats need to
"get out of the way" so they can bring a modest 40 footer into a
"clogged" harbor, your argument will have a bit more traction, but
just as small boat buyers indirectly benefit from manufacturers earing
profits on larger craft, the owners of medium and larger boats also
need and depend upon the owners of small boats to create enough
critical mass in the marketplace to support the general infrastructure.

Good news for boaters? Oil prices headed down?
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On 16 May 2007 07:28:39 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

You're rooting and hoping for a collapse of the powerboat industry?
Especially large powerboats?

I don't know about large powerboats, but I stopped to visit a friend
of mine at the old Lake Webster Marina this morning and he was just
flat out depressed. Hasn't sold a new boat in 8 months and he's more
more used boats on consignment than I've ever seen there - easily 60
boats - all mid-range from 25K to 60k.

Gotta wonder about that.


I certainly don't share Harry's newfound distain for larger boats and I
don't understand how he feels that harbors are clogged up with them in such
a manner that it affects those with smaller boats.

I am enjoying my "barge" as much as I ever did and I don't have to burn a
ton of fuel to do so. I'll betcha, for living in New England, I spend many
more hours on the boat during the summer than most and I enjoy every minute
of it.

Eisboch

Good news for boaters? Oil prices headed down?
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...


I am enjoying my "barge" as much as I ever did and I don't have to burn a
ton of fuel to do so. I'll betcha, for living in New England, I spend
many more hours on the boat during the summer than most and I enjoy every
minute of it.



(it just so happens that *that's* were I am right now .... since yesterday
..... and probably through the weekend)

Eisboch

Good news for boaters? Oil prices headed down?
 

On Wed, 16 May 2007 12:01:49 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .
On 16 May 2007 07:28:39 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

You're rooting and hoping for a collapse of the powerboat industry?
Especially large powerboats?

I don't know about large powerboats, but I stopped to visit a friend
of mine at the old Lake Webster Marina this morning and he was just
flat out depressed. Hasn't sold a new boat in 8 months and he's more
more used boats on consignment than I've ever seen there - easily 60
boats - all mid-range from 25K to 60k.

Gotta wonder about that.

I certainly don't share Harry's newfound distain for larger boats and I
don't understand how he feels that harbors are clogged up with them in such
a manner that it affects those with smaller boats.

I don't either. I find smaller boats more of a pain in the ass while
fishing than "barges".

I am enjoying my "barge" as much as I ever did and I don't have to burn a
ton of fuel to do so. I'll betcha, for living in New England, I spend many
more hours on the boat during the summer than most and I enjoy every minute
of it.

And you dont have to go anywhere to do it.

That's 'da bomb. :)

Good news for boaters? Oil prices headed down?
 

On Wed, 16 May 2007 12:05:31 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"Eisboch" wrote in message
m...


I am enjoying my "barge" as much as I ever did and I don't have to burn a
ton of fuel to do so. I'll betcha, for living in New England, I spend
many more hours on the boat during the summer than most and I enjoy every
minute of it.

(it just so happens that *that's* were I am right now .... since yesterday
.... and probably through the weekend)

Mrs. E bring the equine kids home or something? :)

Good news for boaters? Oil prices headed down?
 

On May 16, 8:53 am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On 16 May 2007 07:28:39 -0700, Chuck Gould

wrote:
You're rooting and hoping for a collapse of the powerboat industry?
Especially large powerboats?

I don't know about large powerboats, but I stopped to visit a friend
of mine at the old Lake Webster Marina this morning and he was just
flat out depressed. Hasn't sold a new boat in 8 months and he's more
more used boats on consignment than I've ever seen there - easily 60
boats - all mid-range from 25K to 60k.

Gotta wonder about that.

It's not fair, (and life is seldom fair), but the guys shopping boats
in the 25-60K range will often be far more affected by high fuel
prices than people spending ten times as much.

I was aboard a very nice new boat on Monday that runs well, but burns
51 gph to make 31 knots. At fuel dock prices, that's in the vicinity
of $500 for a two-hour run at 31 knots. (ouch)
The buyer who can spend $300k to buy that boat will *still* feel the
pain at the pump, but fuel will be somewhat insignificant compared to
other expenses.

A boater who is maybe even making monthly payments on a $25,000 marine
mortgage
just to get out on the water is far more likely to be driven out of
the pastime entirely if his fuel bill for a day even begins to
approach $500. When boating 2-3 days per month starts to cost people
$1000 or more in fuel costs, the middle income earners and below will
begin fleeing the scene. That seems to be reflected in your friend's
experience at his marina.

Good news for boaters? Oil prices headed down?
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...


Mrs. E bring the equine kids home or something? :)

Naw...

They are supposed to be launching the GB tomorrow or Friday. It was a good
"excuse" to stay over for a few days on the other boat.

I have to leave for a while tomorrow morning, but I'll most likely come back
in the afternoon. This weekend looks like a washout weather-wise, and I
actually enjoy staying on the boat in that kind of weather.

Eisboch

Good news for boaters? Oil prices headed down?
 

Chuck Gould wrote:
On May 16, 7:45 am, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On May 16, 5:16 am, HK wrote:
I think the bell is
beginning to toll for the powerboat industry, especially for those in
the large powerboat sector. That would be a good thing.
Tell us how you really feel, Harry.
You're rooting and hoping for a collapse of the powerboat industry?
Especially large powerboats? (Do you have any idea how that would
impact the value of the five hundred thousand or so you have invested
in your lobster boat?)
Aside from name calling and making nasty comments, what the hell are
you doing hanging out in a forum that is supposed to be for *boaters*?
Perhaps your disruptive behavior in the NG is additional evidence of
your disdain for powerboating?
Have you checked rec.boats.paddle? Once you find a buyer for your
Parker, and since you only once ever reported going *anywhere* in your
otherwise absolutely unused and extremely well-hidden lobster boat, I
believe you will be down to "half a canoe".
I'd like to see a return to smaller boats. I think it would be better
for boating, better for the environment and help alleviate over-crowding
at facilities. I think it makes for better boaters, too.

When I was a young boy and then a teen-ager, and literally lived a third
of the year at water's edge, I rarely encountered any powerboats larger
than 30-34 feet, even at my father's marina, at the adjacent marinas, or
at marinas or boat clubs we visited. Most powerboats, other than
rowboats and skiffs, were between 16' and 25', inboard, outboard, and
I/O. Boating was far more affordable at the point of purchase, and in
terms of operation and maintenance, and I am not discounting the impact
of inflation.

Cripes, you can't even get into some of the better harbors anymore
because they are overclogged with 40-60 foot barges. Screw 'em.

My livelihood doesn't depend upon boats or the industry that produces or
looks after larger boats. If I were boat shopping right now, I'd
probably buy a 21-footer for use around here and down in the ocean at
Virginia Beach.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The average LOA of boats registered in most states is under 20-feet.

The companies that build those trailer boats offset a lot of their
costs with the very high markups earned in the 40-60+ category.
Competition is pretty fierce in the trailer boat arena, people tend to
shop for them with a mind set similar to looking for a "car deal", and
the production of large boats indeed subsidizes the small boat buyer.
When and if big boats go away, expect to pay a lot more for smaller
boats offered by any builders that manage to survive.

The infrastructure in those "clogged harbors" depends upon the trade
of medium and larger size boats. How long would the local fuel dock
remain in business if every customer showed up with a six-gallon
portable outboard tank and nobody took on 200 or 300 gallons of fuel
in a single transaction? Once again, the suppliers who survive would
be forced to charge significantly more.

Maybe things haven't really changed as much as you suspect. There
could be no serious debate that the vast majority of powerboats are
still under 25-feet- but because there are more boats than ever before
there are also more medium and large boats than ever.

When people start to bitch that you guys in the little boats need to
"get out of the way" so they can bring a modest 40 footer into a
"clogged" harbor, your argument will have a bit more traction, but
just as small boat buyers indirectly benefit from manufacturers earing
profits on larger craft, the owners of medium and larger boats also
need and depend upon the owners of small boats to create enough
critical mass in the marketplace to support the general infrastructure.



Goddamn, you need a pair of hip waders to trod through your pro-industry
rationalizations.

Good news for boaters? Oil prices headed down?
 

On Wed, 16 May 2007 15:53:14 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

Gotta wonder about that.

When it costs $180 to take on 50 gallons of gas, some of the wonder
goes away.

Good news for boaters? Oil prices headed down?
 

wrote:
On 16 May 2007 01:27:04 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/WAmetro.asp

Throughout nearly every major market in my home state, retail prices
for refined products were off a fraction of a cent or so on Monday
when compared to the previous day.

By the way, this is an interesting site. You can look up your own
state and track fuel pricing. On the home page of the fuel gauge
report there's a chart tracking the retail and wholesale prices of
refined products, as well as the cost of a bbl of oil at the wellhead.
There are fairly parallel lines in the retail and wholesale prices,
(although the fact that the margin between retail and wholesale is
currently below recent averages tends to dampen any optimism fostered
by a partial cent drop in retail pricing). Looking at the very flat
line on the bottom of the chart, it's easy to visualize that the price
of crude oil has next to zero effect on the price of refined products.

http://research.investopedia.com/new...ad_BC_HZO.aspx


The demise of MarineMax would be good for boating.

Good news for boaters? Oil prices headed down?
 

On 16 May 2007 09:18:37 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

On May 16, 8:53 am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On 16 May 2007 07:28:39 -0700, Chuck Gould

wrote:
You're rooting and hoping for a collapse of the powerboat industry?
Especially large powerboats?

I don't know about large powerboats, but I stopped to visit a friend
of mine at the old Lake Webster Marina this morning and he was just
flat out depressed. Hasn't sold a new boat in 8 months and he's more
more used boats on consignment than I've ever seen there - easily 60
boats - all mid-range from 25K to 60k.

Gotta wonder about that.

It's not fair, (and life is seldom fair), but the guys shopping boats
in the 25-60K range will often be far more affected by high fuel
prices than people spending ten times as much.

I was aboard a very nice new boat on Monday that runs well, but burns
51 gph to make 31 knots. At fuel dock prices, that's in the vicinity
of $500 for a two-hour run at 31 knots. (ouch)
The buyer who can spend $300k to buy that boat will *still* feel the
pain at the pump, but fuel will be somewhat insignificant compared to
other expenses.

A boater who is maybe even making monthly payments on a $25,000 marine
mortgage
just to get out on the water is far more likely to be driven out of
the pastime entirely if his fuel bill for a day even begins to
approach $500. When boating 2-3 days per month starts to cost people
$1000 or more in fuel costs, the middle income earners and below will
begin fleeing the scene. That seems to be reflected in your friend's
experience at his marina.

A lot of the showboater/speed-demon boat market will dry up, but those
who simply like to be on the water shouldn't have a problem.
Skiers and wakeboarders will get hit the hardest. Inefficient big
sportsfishers too. Big boats with sleeping quarters whose owners
really love being on the water will think harder about cruising, but
won't see a pressing need to dump the boat, especially since resale
values will be low and marina costs actually might go down.
Might be more interest in slow/ugly but efficient trawlers for
cruisers. And skiffs for fishing - since they are gas misers. You
won't keep fishermen off the water.
That's all just my idle speculation.
Personally, I've always been averse to using more fuel than necessary,
so I'll make no adjustments due to fuel prices.
Either a 19-24' skiff if I decide to just fish, or a 26-30' sailboat
if I decide to cruise. Doesn't matter what gas costs.
I got over that hurdle decades ago.
Here's a link to a Mississippi boating story that might interest you.
http://home.att.net/~a.emmons/ahchap1.htm
I liked it, and read the whole thing.
This trip was a disaster waiting to happen - luckily it didn't.
There are boats and there are boats, and this post reminded my
of something a guy in this journal named Rowboat Jimmy said.
Jimmy had "dropped out" and rowed all over the inland waterways
on some kind of rowboat never fully described.
Jimmy's arms were brawny, but he said rowing was hard on the back.
The journal author was trying to be helpful to Jimmy.
"While discussing river travel, I suggested, "Some modifications could
be made to his rowboat to provide sailing capacity." He came back
casually, "But then it wouldn’t be a rowboat."

That about sums it up.

--Vic








--Vic

Good news for boaters? Oil prices headed down?
 

On Wed, 16 May 2007 12:58:06 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Wed, 16 May 2007 15:53:14 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

Gotta wonder about that.

When it costs $180 to take on 50 gallons of gas, some of the wonder
goes away.

I phrased that badly.

I understand the why, it's just that I suspect that the first to
consolidate, if that's the correct term here, will be the small boat
market rather than the large boat market.

Make that contract rather than consolidate.

Kind of makes me glad I have an ETEC.

Good news for boaters? Oil prices headed down?
 

On Wed, 16 May 2007 12:20:56 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .


Mrs. E bring the equine kids home or something? :)

Naw...

They are supposed to be launching the GB tomorrow or Friday. It was a good
"excuse" to stay over for a few days on the other boat.

I have to leave for a while tomorrow morning, but I'll most likely come back
in the afternoon. This weekend looks like a washout weather-wise, and I
actually enjoy staying on the boat in that kind of weather.

When I was a kid, the bestest thing EVER was to head out to my Dad's
boat, sit under the overhang and watch the storm go by.

Supposedly I was "tending" the boat during the storm.

At least that's what I told him. He didn't seem to mind. :)

Good news for boaters? Oil prices headed down?
 

On May 16, 9:34 am, HK wrote:


Goddamn, you need a pair of hip waders to trod through your pro-industry
rationalizations.- Hide quoted text -

Beats hell out of a gas mask. :-)

Good news for boaters? Oil prices headed down?
 

All this discussion makes me appreciate the fuel squeezing 3.0 I ahve
in my ChrisCraft. Spend a good day at the lake for less than $50.00
of gas.

The 23 foot Marquis with it's 350 chevy will be different,
but .........




wrote:
On 16 May 2007 01:27:04 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/WAmetro.asp

Throughout nearly every major market in my home state, retail prices
for refined products were off a fraction of a cent or so on Monday
when compared to the previous day.

By the way, this is an interesting site. You can look up your own
state and track fuel pricing. On the home page of the fuel gauge
report there's a chart tracking the retail and wholesale prices of
refined products, as well as the cost of a bbl of oil at the wellhead.
There are fairly parallel lines in the retail and wholesale prices,
(although the fact that the margin between retail and wholesale is
currently below recent averages tends to dampen any optimism fostered
by a partial cent drop in retail pricing). Looking at the very flat
line on the bottom of the chart, it's easy to visualize that the price
of crude oil has next to zero effect on the price of refined products.

http://research.investopedia.com/new...ad_BC_HZO.aspx
--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

eMail


Homepage
http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/

Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats
-----------------
www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com - *Completion*Retention*Speed*
Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road
-----------------

Good news for boaters? Oil prices headed down?
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 May 2007 12:20:56 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
. ..


Mrs. E bring the equine kids home or something? :)

Naw...

They are supposed to be launching the GB tomorrow or Friday. It was a good
"excuse" to stay over for a few days on the other boat.

I have to leave for a while tomorrow morning, but I'll most likely come
back
in the afternoon. This weekend looks like a washout weather-wise, and I
actually enjoy staying on the boat in that kind of weather.

When I was a kid, the bestest thing EVER was to head out to my Dad's
boat, sit under the overhang and watch the storm go by.

Supposedly I was "tending" the boat during the storm.

At least that's what I told him. He didn't seem to mind. :)

As I kid I loved to sit on our covered patio and watch thunderstorms.
There is nothing like the smell of the fresh air after the storm.

Good news for boaters? Oil prices headed down?
 

"Tim" wrote in message
ps.com...
All this discussion makes me appreciate the fuel squeezing 3.0 I ahve
in my ChrisCraft. Spend a good day at the lake for less than $50.00
of gas.

The 23 foot Marquis with it's 350 chevy will be different,
but .........




My 4.3L is pretty thrifty also..........not like the twin 5.7L's I had on
the other boat. ;-)

There are going to be a lot of large boats sitting mainly idle this summer.

Good news for boaters? Oil prices headed down?
 

On Wed, 16 May 2007 19:38:04 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

Kind of makes me glad I have an ETEC.

Have you ever figured out your miles per gallon?

The engine on our "new to us" 27 footer is relatively hi tech with
electronic multiport fuel injection, etc. We seem to be averaging
somewhere around 2.2 to 2.3 NMPG which seems decent enough to me for a
6,000 lb boat cruising at 26 to 27 kts.

Good news for boaters? Oil prices headed down?
 

On Wed, 16 May 2007 18:01:29 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Wed, 16 May 2007 19:38:04 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

Kind of makes me glad I have an ETEC.

Have you ever figured out your miles per gallon?

Not really if only because it not relevant to me - I think.

On average, I use 3.6 gallons per hour of run time. That includes
cruise, trolling as I very seldom run WOT all the time.

The most I've ever used with the ETEC which was on a beat the weather
run - 5.2 gallons per hour and I made the run from Race Rock to
Westerly WOT @ 50 mph.

Never really figured miles per gallon.

Good news for boaters? Oil prices headed down?
 

Have you checked rec.boats.paddle? Once you find a buyer for your
Parker, and since you only once ever reported going *anywhere* in your
otherwise absolutely unused and extremely well-hidden lobster boat, I
believe you will be down to "half a canoe".

Oddly, he seems to be shying away from writing about that wonderful lobster
boat lately. Maybe it's in dry-dock. Or maybe the engine is being pulled.
Or maybe it's being repaired from the last rowdy meeting of Yale alumnus on
the boat. One never knows!



Cheers,

William

Good news for boaters? Oil prices headed down?
 

On Wed, 16 May 2007 23:28:43 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

The most I've ever used with the ETEC which was on a beat the weather
run - 5.2 gallons per hour and I made the run from Race Rock to
Westerly WOT @ 50 mph.

Those are good numbers.

How many horsepower?

Good news for boaters? Oil prices headed down?
 

On Wed, 16 May 2007 21:04:49 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Wed, 16 May 2007 23:28:43 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

The most I've ever used with the ETEC which was on a beat the weather
run - 5.2 gallons per hour and I made the run from Race Rock to
Westerly WOT @ 50 mph.

Those are good numbers.

How many horsepower?

200, V-6, 90 degree block.

Good news for boaters? Oil prices headed down?
 

On May 16, 4:06 pm, "JimH" wrote:
"Tim" wrote in message

ps.com...

All this discussion makes me appreciate the fuel squeezing 3.0 I ahve
in my ChrisCraft. Spend a good day at the lake for less than $50.00
of gas.

The 23 foot Marquis with it's 350 chevy will be different,
but .........

My 4.3L is pretty thrifty also..........not like the twin 5.7L's I had on
the other boat. ;-)

There are going to be a lot of large boats sitting mainly idle this summer.


I had ye olde, backwards 283 "vette" engine in my '64 CC Cavalier
cruiser. it had a 50 gal tank and it NEEDED it! push it hard and
you'd think the tank sides would almost collapse!

?:

Good news for boaters? Oil prices headed down?
 

On May 16, 2:06 pm, "JimH" wrote:


There are going to be a lot of large boats sitting mainly idle this summer.

Depends how you define "large", I think.

The guys with the low HP cartoppers won't care what happens to fuel
prices as they can use a boat a lot and not burn more than 40-50
gallons in a season.

The guys with $xxx,xxx or $x,xxx,xxx invested in a boat are
probably running somewhat more efficient diesels
and can more often afford the fuel. When somebody is paying $30,000 a
year to keep, operate, and maintain a boat (and can afford to do so)
it won't matter all that much if the cost goes to $34,000 because fuel
expenses went from
$3000 to $7000 for the year.

I'd guess it's the medium size speedboats that are in a heap of
trouble with the fuel price situation. Folks who stretched their
financial resources to buy a used 28-30 footer for maybe $40-50,000
and in many cases needed or chose to finance the purchase are
typically using a boat built back when fuel was relatively "cheap". A
couple of very thirsty, big-block gas engines could cost $250-$300 or
more per hour to run at current fuel dock prices.
The dropouts will be those who 1) literally cannot afford it or 2)
choose not to afford it.

My own medium size boat only burns a couple of gallons an hour. I've
always taken a lot of teasing crap from folks who think the only way
to boat is up on plane and who criticize my boat's lack of speed. I
guess I'll be going 8.5 knots faster than a lot of those people will
this year. Even so, that's too bad. Rather than feel "vindicated at
last" for choosing a very fuel efficient boat it's a shame that so
many people will be using their boats less or in some cases not at all
due to the costs of fuel.

Good news for boaters? Oil prices headed down?
 

Chuck Gould wrote:
On May 16, 2:06 pm, "JimH" wrote:

There are going to be a lot of large boats sitting mainly idle this summer.

Depends how you define "large", I think.

The guys with the low HP cartoppers won't care what happens to fuel
prices as they can use a boat a lot and not burn more than 40-50
gallons in a season.

The guys with $xxx,xxx or $x,xxx,xxx invested in a boat are
probably running somewhat more efficient diesels
and can more often afford the fuel. When somebody is paying $30,000 a
year to keep, operate, and maintain a boat (and can afford to do so)
it won't matter all that much if the cost goes to $34,000 because fuel
expenses went from
$3000 to $7000 for the year.

I'd guess it's the medium size speedboats that are in a heap of
trouble with the fuel price situation. Folks who stretched their
financial resources to buy a used 28-30 footer for maybe $40-50,000
and in many cases needed or chose to finance the purchase are
typically using a boat built back when fuel was relatively "cheap". A
couple of very thirsty, big-block gas engines could cost $250-$300 or
more per hour to run at current fuel dock prices.
The dropouts will be those who 1) literally cannot afford it or 2)
choose not to afford it.

My own medium size boat only burns a couple of gallons an hour. I've
always taken a lot of teasing crap from folks who think the only way
to boat is up on plane and who criticize my boat's lack of speed. I
guess I'll be going 8.5 knots faster than a lot of those people will
this year. Even so, that's too bad. Rather than feel "vindicated at
last" for choosing a very fuel efficient boat it's a shame that so
many people will be using their boats less or in some cases not at all
due to the costs of fuel.




I can run my Parker at a comfortable plane at about 7 gph, and run at
hull speed for about 2-3 gph. It's not the money that's the issue for
me, though. It's the idea of being raped by the oil companies and
refineries I found repugnant.

Good news for boaters? Oil prices headed down?
 

I have put 200 hours on my 30' boat since last June...but very few of those
were in the past couple of months. I budget about $500/month on fuel. The
monthly fuel bill is often higher, but some of the expense is shared by
friends or family.


I've been planning a trip to the Keys at the end of the month, which will
be a budget buster...so I've been using the 17' boat more often to save
fuel.

I forgot how much I like the simplicity of a smaller boat. It's easier to
fish nearshore with, and when the kids get hot and tired, it's easier to
pull up to a marina for lunch, or on to a beach for a swim.

The 30-footer is becoming a "specialty trip" boat...for occasional long runs
offshore, or to a long-range destination for an overnight trip. I will use
it more often than the little boat in the winter too, since things can get
downright cold fishing from an open boat in January and february (even in
Florida).





"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
oups.com...
On May 16, 8:53 am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On 16 May 2007 07:28:39 -0700, Chuck Gould

wrote:
You're rooting and hoping for a collapse of the powerboat industry?
Especially large powerboats?

I don't know about large powerboats, but I stopped to visit a friend
of mine at the old Lake Webster Marina this morning and he was just
flat out depressed. Hasn't sold a new boat in 8 months and he's more
more used boats on consignment than I've ever seen there - easily 60
boats - all mid-range from 25K to 60k.

Gotta wonder about that.

It's not fair, (and life is seldom fair), but the guys shopping boats
in the 25-60K range will often be far more affected by high fuel
prices than people spending ten times as much.

I was aboard a very nice new boat on Monday that runs well, but burns
51 gph to make 31 knots. At fuel dock prices, that's in the vicinity
of $500 for a two-hour run at 31 knots. (ouch)
The buyer who can spend $300k to buy that boat will *still* feel the
pain at the pump, but fuel will be somewhat insignificant compared to
other expenses.

A boater who is maybe even making monthly payments on a $25,000 marine
mortgage
just to get out on the water is far more likely to be driven out of
the pastime entirely if his fuel bill for a day even begins to
approach $500. When boating 2-3 days per month starts to cost people
$1000 or more in fuel costs, the middle income earners and below will
begin fleeing the scene. That seems to be reflected in your friend's
experience at his marina.

Good news for boaters? Oil prices headed down?
 

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
oups.com...
On May 16, 2:06 pm, "JimH" wrote:


There are going to be a lot of large boats sitting mainly idle this
summer.

Depends how you define "large", I think.

Large is anything bigger than my boat. ;-)


The guys with the low HP cartoppers won't care what happens to fuel
prices as they can use a boat a lot and not burn more than 40-50
gallons in a season.

The guys with $xxx,xxx or $x,xxx,xxx invested in a boat are
probably running somewhat more efficient diesels....

Not necessarily on the lower to lower-mid range of 6 figures, especially
with new boats.

..... and can more often afford the fuel.

Again, not necessarily. Some are probably in debt to their ears and the
additional fuel costs will break them. We don't typically have the mega
million dollar boats on Lake Erie and the largest are generally in the 50 to
70 foot range.

Good news for boaters? Oil prices headed down?
 

Chuck Gould wrote:
On May 16, 5:16 am, HK wrote:

I think the bell is
beginning to toll for the powerboat industry, especially for those in
the large powerboat sector. That would be a good thing.

Tell us how you really feel, Harry.

You're rooting and hoping for a collapse of the powerboat industry?
Especially large powerboats? (Do you have any idea how that would
impact the value of the five hundred thousand or so you have invested
in your lobster boat?)

Aside from name calling and making nasty comments, what the hell are
you doing hanging out in a forum that is supposed to be for *boaters*?

Perhaps your disruptive behavior in the NG is additional evidence of
your disdain for powerboating?

Have you checked rec.boats.paddle? Once you find a buyer for your
Parker, and since you only once ever reported going *anywhere* in your
otherwise absolutely unused and extremely well-hidden lobster boat, I
believe you will be down to "half a canoe".



crickets

Good news for boaters? Oil prices headed down?
 

HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On May 16, 5:16 am, HK wrote:

I think the bell is
beginning to toll for the powerboat industry, especially for those in
the large powerboat sector. That would be a good thing.

Tell us how you really feel, Harry.

You're rooting and hoping for a collapse of the powerboat industry?
Especially large powerboats? (Do you have any idea how that would
impact the value of the five hundred thousand or so you have invested
in your lobster boat?)

Aside from name calling and making nasty comments, what the hell are
you doing hanging out in a forum that is supposed to be for *boaters*?

Perhaps your disruptive behavior in the NG is additional evidence of
your disdain for powerboating?

Have you checked rec.boats.paddle? Once you find a buyer for your
Parker, and since you only once ever reported going *anywhere* in your
otherwise absolutely unused and extremely well-hidden lobster boat, I
believe you will be down to "half a canoe".




I'd like to see a return to smaller boats. I think it would be better
for boating, better for the environment and help alleviate over-crowding
at facilities. I think it makes for better boaters, too.

When I was a young boy and then a teen-ager, and literally lived a third
of the year at water's edge, I rarely encountered any powerboats larger
than 30-34 feet, even at my father's marina, at the adjacent marinas, or
at marinas or boat clubs we visited. Most powerboats, other than
rowboats and skiffs, were between 16' and 25', inboard, outboard, and
I/O. Boating was far more affordable at the point of purchase, and in
terms of operation and maintenance, and I am not discounting the impact
of inflation.

Cripes, you can't even get into some of the better harbors anymore
because they are overclogged with 40-60 foot barges. Screw 'em.

My livelihood doesn't depend upon boats or the industry that produces or
looks after larger boats. If I were boat shopping right now, I'd
probably buy a 21-footer for use around here and down in the ocean at
Virginia Beach.

This normally boring text is yet another example of the lack of the
"lobster boat". Narcissistic people are easily caught in lies.

Good news for boaters? Oil prices headed down?
 

On May 17, 9:56 am, "NOYB" wrote:
I have put 200 hours on my 30' boat since last June...but very few of those
were in the past couple of months. I budget about $500/month on fuel. The
monthly fuel bill is often higher, but some of the expense is shared by
friends or family.

I've been planning a trip to the Keys at the end of the month, which will
be a budget buster...so I've been using the 17' boat more often to save
fuel.

I forgot how much I like the simplicity of a smaller boat. It's easier to
fish nearshore with, and when the kids get hot and tired, it's easier to
pull up to a marina for lunch, or on to a beach for a swim.

The 30-footer is becoming a "specialty trip" boat...for occasional long runs
offshore, or to a long-range destination for an overnight trip. I will use
it more often than the little boat in the winter too, since things can get
downright cold fishing from an open boat in January and february (even in
Florida).

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message

oups.com...



On May 16, 8:53 am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On 16 May 2007 07:28:39 -0700, Chuck Gould

wrote:
You're rooting and hoping for a collapse of the powerboat industry?
Especially large powerboats?

I don't know about large powerboats, but I stopped to visit a friend
of mine at the old Lake Webster Marina this morning and he was just
flat out depressed. Hasn't sold a new boat in 8 months and he's more
more used boats on consignment than I've ever seen there - easily 60
boats - all mid-range from 25K to 60k.

Gotta wonder about that.

It's not fair, (and life is seldom fair), but the guys shopping boats
in the 25-60K range will often be far more affected by high fuel
prices than people spending ten times as much.

I was aboard a very nice new boat on Monday that runs well, but burns
51 gph to make 31 knots. At fuel dock prices, that's in the vicinity
of $500 for a two-hour run at 31 knots. (ouch)
The buyer who can spend $300k to buy that boat will *still* feel the
pain at the pump, but fuel will be somewhat insignificant compared to
other expenses.

A boater who is maybe even making monthly payments on a $25,000 marine
mortgage
just to get out on the water is far more likely to be driven out of
the pastime entirely if his fuel bill for a day even begins to
approach $500. When boating 2-3 days per month starts to cost people
$1000 or more in fuel costs, the middle income earners and below will
begin fleeing the scene. That seems to be reflected in your friend's
experience at his marina.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well, if the AAA chart is accurate we have to be in for some relief
eventually.

http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/index.asp

If one looks at the "gap" between the price of crude and the wholesale
price from September 2006 until about Feb of 2007, and then compares
that to the same gap today, the difference is astonishing.

Rather obviously the oil companies can afford to take their foot off
our necks almost any time they want to. Question is, how soon will
they want to?

If there were any real competition, somebody would start up a new oil
company to take advantage of that gap. Whenever profits get to that
sort of level, that's when the free market economy is supposed to
spawn additional competition and bring the prices/profits down a bit.
I guess we don't have a perfect system- but then again I don't think a
perfect system exists anywhere and the one we do have is pretty good
most of the time.

Oh well.....

Good news for boaters? Oil prices headed down?
 

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ups.com...
On May 17, 9:56 am, "NOYB" wrote:
I have put 200 hours on my 30' boat since last June...but very few of
those
were in the past couple of months. I budget about $500/month on fuel.
The
monthly fuel bill is often higher, but some of the expense is shared by
friends or family.

I've been planning a trip to the Keys at the end of the month, which
will
be a budget buster...so I've been using the 17' boat more often to save
fuel.

I forgot how much I like the simplicity of a smaller boat. It's easier
to
fish nearshore with, and when the kids get hot and tired, it's easier to
pull up to a marina for lunch, or on to a beach for a swim.

The 30-footer is becoming a "specialty trip" boat...for occasional long
runs
offshore, or to a long-range destination for an overnight trip. I will
use
it more often than the little boat in the winter too, since things can
get
downright cold fishing from an open boat in January and february (even in
Florida).

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message

oups.com...



On May 16, 8:53 am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On 16 May 2007 07:28:39 -0700, Chuck Gould

wrote:
You're rooting and hoping for a collapse of the powerboat industry?
Especially large powerboats?

I don't know about large powerboats, but I stopped to visit a friend
of mine at the old Lake Webster Marina this morning and he was just
flat out depressed. Hasn't sold a new boat in 8 months and he's more
more used boats on consignment than I've ever seen there - easily 60
boats - all mid-range from 25K to 60k.

Gotta wonder about that.

It's not fair, (and life is seldom fair), but the guys shopping boats
in the 25-60K range will often be far more affected by high fuel
prices than people spending ten times as much.

I was aboard a very nice new boat on Monday that runs well, but burns
51 gph to make 31 knots. At fuel dock prices, that's in the vicinity
of $500 for a two-hour run at 31 knots. (ouch)
The buyer who can spend $300k to buy that boat will *still* feel the
pain at the pump, but fuel will be somewhat insignificant compared to
other expenses.

A boater who is maybe even making monthly payments on a $25,000 marine
mortgage
just to get out on the water is far more likely to be driven out of
the pastime entirely if his fuel bill for a day even begins to
approach $500. When boating 2-3 days per month starts to cost people
$1000 or more in fuel costs, the middle income earners and below will
begin fleeing the scene. That seems to be reflected in your friend's
experience at his marina.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well, if the AAA chart is accurate we have to be in for some relief
eventually.

http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/index.asp

If one looks at the "gap" between the price of crude and the wholesale
price from September 2006 until about Feb of 2007, and then compares
that to the same gap today, the difference is astonishing.

Rather obviously the oil companies can afford to take their foot off
our necks almost any time they want to. Question is, how soon will
they want to?

If there were any real competition, somebody would start up a new oil
company to take advantage of that gap. Whenever profits get to that
sort of level, that's when the free market economy is supposed to
spawn additional competition and bring the prices/profits down a bit.
I guess we don't have a perfect system- but then again I don't think a
perfect system exists anywhere and the one we do have is pretty good
most of the time.

Oh well.....


Where is the new company going to get their crude?

Good news for boaters? Oil prices headed down?
 

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ups.com...
On May 17, 9:56 am, "NOYB" wrote:
I have put 200 hours on my 30' boat since last June...but very few of
those
were in the past couple of months. I budget about $500/month on fuel.
The
monthly fuel bill is often higher, but some of the expense is shared by
friends or family.

I've been planning a trip to the Keys at the end of the month, which
will
be a budget buster...so I've been using the 17' boat more often to save
fuel.

I forgot how much I like the simplicity of a smaller boat. It's easier
to
fish nearshore with, and when the kids get hot and tired, it's easier to
pull up to a marina for lunch, or on to a beach for a swim.

The 30-footer is becoming a "specialty trip" boat...for occasional long
runs
offshore, or to a long-range destination for an overnight trip. I will
use
it more often than the little boat in the winter too, since things can
get
downright cold fishing from an open boat in January and february (even in
Florida).

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message

oups.com...



On May 16, 8:53 am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On 16 May 2007 07:28:39 -0700, Chuck Gould

wrote:
You're rooting and hoping for a collapse of the powerboat industry?
Especially large powerboats?

I don't know about large powerboats, but I stopped to visit a friend
of mine at the old Lake Webster Marina this morning and he was just
flat out depressed. Hasn't sold a new boat in 8 months and he's more
more used boats on consignment than I've ever seen there - easily 60
boats - all mid-range from 25K to 60k.

Gotta wonder about that.

It's not fair, (and life is seldom fair), but the guys shopping boats
in the 25-60K range will often be far more affected by high fuel
prices than people spending ten times as much.

I was aboard a very nice new boat on Monday that runs well, but burns
51 gph to make 31 knots. At fuel dock prices, that's in the vicinity
of $500 for a two-hour run at 31 knots. (ouch)
The buyer who can spend $300k to buy that boat will *still* feel the
pain at the pump, but fuel will be somewhat insignificant compared to
other expenses.

A boater who is maybe even making monthly payments on a $25,000 marine
mortgage
just to get out on the water is far more likely to be driven out of
the pastime entirely if his fuel bill for a day even begins to
approach $500. When boating 2-3 days per month starts to cost people
$1000 or more in fuel costs, the middle income earners and below will
begin fleeing the scene. That seems to be reflected in your friend's
experience at his marina.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well, if the AAA chart is accurate we have to be in for some relief
eventually.

http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/index.asp

If one looks at the "gap" between the price of crude and the wholesale
price from September 2006 until about Feb of 2007, and then compares
that to the same gap today, the difference is astonishing.

Rather obviously the oil companies can afford to take their foot off
our necks almost any time they want to. Question is, how soon will
they want to?

If there were any real competition, somebody would start up a new oil
company to take advantage of that gap. Whenever profits get to that
sort of level, that's when the free market economy is supposed to
spawn additional competition and bring the prices/profits down a bit.
I guess we don't have a perfect system- but then again I don't think a
perfect system exists anywhere and the one we do have is pretty good
most of the time.

Oh well.....

What about the government mandated summer formulations? Might they be more
costly to produce?

Good news for boaters? Oil prices headed down?
 

On May 17, 11:00 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:


Where is the new company going to get their crude?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That's *why* there's no competition. :-)

A handful of companies control most of the world's crude oil. Even
where wells have been nationalized (like the mideast) BIGOIL still
owns 49% in many cases. Since everybody is able to sell as much as
they want at whatever price they care to charge, (as long as there is
no consideration for the human misery that results), the incentive is
to help your competitors push prices higher rather than take advantage
of a competitor's high pricing to increase your own market share.