On May 16, 2:06 pm, "JimH" wrote:


There are going to be a lot of large boats sitting mainly idle this summer.

Depends how you define "large", I think.

The guys with the low HP cartoppers won't care what happens to fuel
prices as they can use a boat a lot and not burn more than 40-50
gallons in a season.

The guys with $xxx,xxx or $x,xxx,xxx invested in a boat are
probably running somewhat more efficient diesels
and can more often afford the fuel. When somebody is paying $30,000 a
year to keep, operate, and maintain a boat (and can afford to do so)
it won't matter all that much if the cost goes to $34,000 because fuel
expenses went from
$3000 to $7000 for the year.

I'd guess it's the medium size speedboats that are in a heap of
trouble with the fuel price situation. Folks who stretched their
financial resources to buy a used 28-30 footer for maybe $40-50,000
and in many cases needed or chose to finance the purchase are
typically using a boat built back when fuel was relatively "cheap". A
couple of very thirsty, big-block gas engines could cost $250-$300 or
more per hour to run at current fuel dock prices.
The dropouts will be those who 1) literally cannot afford it or 2)
choose not to afford it.

My own medium size boat only burns a couple of gallons an hour. I've
always taken a lot of teasing crap from folks who think the only way
to boat is up on plane and who criticize my boat's lack of speed. I
guess I'll be going 8.5 knots faster than a lot of those people will
this year. Even so, that's too bad. Rather than feel "vindicated at
last" for choosing a very fuel efficient boat it's a shame that so
many people will be using their boats less or in some cases not at all
due to the costs of fuel.

Chuck Gould wrote:
On May 16, 2:06 pm, "JimH" wrote:

There are going to be a lot of large boats sitting mainly idle this summer.

Depends how you define "large", I think.

The guys with the low HP cartoppers won't care what happens to fuel
prices as they can use a boat a lot and not burn more than 40-50
gallons in a season.

The guys with $xxx,xxx or $x,xxx,xxx invested in a boat are
probably running somewhat more efficient diesels
and can more often afford the fuel. When somebody is paying $30,000 a
year to keep, operate, and maintain a boat (and can afford to do so)
it won't matter all that much if the cost goes to $34,000 because fuel
expenses went from
$3000 to $7000 for the year.

I'd guess it's the medium size speedboats that are in a heap of
trouble with the fuel price situation. Folks who stretched their
financial resources to buy a used 28-30 footer for maybe $40-50,000
and in many cases needed or chose to finance the purchase are
typically using a boat built back when fuel was relatively "cheap". A
couple of very thirsty, big-block gas engines could cost $250-$300 or
more per hour to run at current fuel dock prices.
The dropouts will be those who 1) literally cannot afford it or 2)
choose not to afford it.

My own medium size boat only burns a couple of gallons an hour. I've
always taken a lot of teasing crap from folks who think the only way
to boat is up on plane and who criticize my boat's lack of speed. I
guess I'll be going 8.5 knots faster than a lot of those people will
this year. Even so, that's too bad. Rather than feel "vindicated at
last" for choosing a very fuel efficient boat it's a shame that so
many people will be using their boats less or in some cases not at all
due to the costs of fuel.




I can run my Parker at a comfortable plane at about 7 gph, and run at
hull speed for about 2-3 gph. It's not the money that's the issue for
me, though. It's the idea of being raped by the oil companies and
refineries I found repugnant.

I have put 200 hours on my 30' boat since last June...but very few of those
were in the past couple of months. I budget about $500/month on fuel. The
monthly fuel bill is often higher, but some of the expense is shared by
friends or family.


I've been planning a trip to the Keys at the end of the month, which will
be a budget buster...so I've been using the 17' boat more often to save
fuel.

I forgot how much I like the simplicity of a smaller boat. It's easier to
fish nearshore with, and when the kids get hot and tired, it's easier to
pull up to a marina for lunch, or on to a beach for a swim.

The 30-footer is becoming a "specialty trip" boat...for occasional long runs
offshore, or to a long-range destination for an overnight trip. I will use
it more often than the little boat in the winter too, since things can get
downright cold fishing from an open boat in January and february (even in
Florida).





"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
oups.com...
On May 16, 8:53 am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On 16 May 2007 07:28:39 -0700, Chuck Gould

wrote:
You're rooting and hoping for a collapse of the powerboat industry?
Especially large powerboats?

I don't know about large powerboats, but I stopped to visit a friend
of mine at the old Lake Webster Marina this morning and he was just
flat out depressed. Hasn't sold a new boat in 8 months and he's more
more used boats on consignment than I've ever seen there - easily 60
boats - all mid-range from 25K to 60k.

Gotta wonder about that.

It's not fair, (and life is seldom fair), but the guys shopping boats
in the 25-60K range will often be far more affected by high fuel
prices than people spending ten times as much.

I was aboard a very nice new boat on Monday that runs well, but burns
51 gph to make 31 knots. At fuel dock prices, that's in the vicinity
of $500 for a two-hour run at 31 knots. (ouch)
The buyer who can spend $300k to buy that boat will *still* feel the
pain at the pump, but fuel will be somewhat insignificant compared to
other expenses.

A boater who is maybe even making monthly payments on a $25,000 marine
mortgage
just to get out on the water is far more likely to be driven out of
the pastime entirely if his fuel bill for a day even begins to
approach $500. When boating 2-3 days per month starts to cost people
$1000 or more in fuel costs, the middle income earners and below will
begin fleeing the scene. That seems to be reflected in your friend's
experience at his marina.

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
oups.com...
On May 16, 2:06 pm, "JimH" wrote:


There are going to be a lot of large boats sitting mainly idle this
summer.

Depends how you define "large", I think.

Large is anything bigger than my boat. ;-)


The guys with the low HP cartoppers won't care what happens to fuel
prices as they can use a boat a lot and not burn more than 40-50
gallons in a season.

The guys with $xxx,xxx or $x,xxx,xxx invested in a boat are
probably running somewhat more efficient diesels....

Not necessarily on the lower to lower-mid range of 6 figures, especially
with new boats.

..... and can more often afford the fuel.

Again, not necessarily. Some are probably in debt to their ears and the
additional fuel costs will break them. We don't typically have the mega
million dollar boats on Lake Erie and the largest are generally in the 50 to
70 foot range.

Chuck Gould wrote:
On May 16, 5:16 am, HK wrote:

I think the bell is
beginning to toll for the powerboat industry, especially for those in
the large powerboat sector. That would be a good thing.

Tell us how you really feel, Harry.

You're rooting and hoping for a collapse of the powerboat industry?
Especially large powerboats? (Do you have any idea how that would
impact the value of the five hundred thousand or so you have invested
in your lobster boat?)

Aside from name calling and making nasty comments, what the hell are
you doing hanging out in a forum that is supposed to be for *boaters*?

Perhaps your disruptive behavior in the NG is additional evidence of
your disdain for powerboating?

Have you checked rec.boats.paddle? Once you find a buyer for your
Parker, and since you only once ever reported going *anywhere* in your
otherwise absolutely unused and extremely well-hidden lobster boat, I
believe you will be down to "half a canoe".



crickets

HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On May 16, 5:16 am, HK wrote:

I think the bell is
beginning to toll for the powerboat industry, especially for those in
the large powerboat sector. That would be a good thing.

Tell us how you really feel, Harry.

You're rooting and hoping for a collapse of the powerboat industry?
Especially large powerboats? (Do you have any idea how that would
impact the value of the five hundred thousand or so you have invested
in your lobster boat?)

Aside from name calling and making nasty comments, what the hell are
you doing hanging out in a forum that is supposed to be for *boaters*?

Perhaps your disruptive behavior in the NG is additional evidence of
your disdain for powerboating?

Have you checked rec.boats.paddle? Once you find a buyer for your
Parker, and since you only once ever reported going *anywhere* in your
otherwise absolutely unused and extremely well-hidden lobster boat, I
believe you will be down to "half a canoe".




I'd like to see a return to smaller boats. I think it would be better
for boating, better for the environment and help alleviate over-crowding
at facilities. I think it makes for better boaters, too.

When I was a young boy and then a teen-ager, and literally lived a third
of the year at water's edge, I rarely encountered any powerboats larger
than 30-34 feet, even at my father's marina, at the adjacent marinas, or
at marinas or boat clubs we visited. Most powerboats, other than
rowboats and skiffs, were between 16' and 25', inboard, outboard, and
I/O. Boating was far more affordable at the point of purchase, and in
terms of operation and maintenance, and I am not discounting the impact
of inflation.

Cripes, you can't even get into some of the better harbors anymore
because they are overclogged with 40-60 foot barges. Screw 'em.

My livelihood doesn't depend upon boats or the industry that produces or
looks after larger boats. If I were boat shopping right now, I'd
probably buy a 21-footer for use around here and down in the ocean at
Virginia Beach.

This normally boring text is yet another example of the lack of the
"lobster boat". Narcissistic people are easily caught in lies.

On May 17, 9:56 am, "NOYB" wrote:
I have put 200 hours on my 30' boat since last June...but very few of those
were in the past couple of months. I budget about $500/month on fuel. The
monthly fuel bill is often higher, but some of the expense is shared by
friends or family.

I've been planning a trip to the Keys at the end of the month, which will
be a budget buster...so I've been using the 17' boat more often to save
fuel.

I forgot how much I like the simplicity of a smaller boat. It's easier to
fish nearshore with, and when the kids get hot and tired, it's easier to
pull up to a marina for lunch, or on to a beach for a swim.

The 30-footer is becoming a "specialty trip" boat...for occasional long runs
offshore, or to a long-range destination for an overnight trip. I will use
it more often than the little boat in the winter too, since things can get
downright cold fishing from an open boat in January and february (even in
Florida).

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message

oups.com...



On May 16, 8:53 am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On 16 May 2007 07:28:39 -0700, Chuck Gould

wrote:
You're rooting and hoping for a collapse of the powerboat industry?
Especially large powerboats?

I don't know about large powerboats, but I stopped to visit a friend
of mine at the old Lake Webster Marina this morning and he was just
flat out depressed. Hasn't sold a new boat in 8 months and he's more
more used boats on consignment than I've ever seen there - easily 60
boats - all mid-range from 25K to 60k.

Gotta wonder about that.

It's not fair, (and life is seldom fair), but the guys shopping boats
in the 25-60K range will often be far more affected by high fuel
prices than people spending ten times as much.

I was aboard a very nice new boat on Monday that runs well, but burns
51 gph to make 31 knots. At fuel dock prices, that's in the vicinity
of $500 for a two-hour run at 31 knots. (ouch)
The buyer who can spend $300k to buy that boat will *still* feel the
pain at the pump, but fuel will be somewhat insignificant compared to
other expenses.

A boater who is maybe even making monthly payments on a $25,000 marine
mortgage
just to get out on the water is far more likely to be driven out of
the pastime entirely if his fuel bill for a day even begins to
approach $500. When boating 2-3 days per month starts to cost people
$1000 or more in fuel costs, the middle income earners and below will
begin fleeing the scene. That seems to be reflected in your friend's
experience at his marina.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well, if the AAA chart is accurate we have to be in for some relief
eventually.

http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/index.asp

If one looks at the "gap" between the price of crude and the wholesale
price from September 2006 until about Feb of 2007, and then compares
that to the same gap today, the difference is astonishing.

Rather obviously the oil companies can afford to take their foot off
our necks almost any time they want to. Question is, how soon will
they want to?

If there were any real competition, somebody would start up a new oil
company to take advantage of that gap. Whenever profits get to that
sort of level, that's when the free market economy is supposed to
spawn additional competition and bring the prices/profits down a bit.
I guess we don't have a perfect system- but then again I don't think a
perfect system exists anywhere and the one we do have is pretty good
most of the time.

Oh well.....

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ups.com...
On May 17, 9:56 am, "NOYB" wrote:
I have put 200 hours on my 30' boat since last June...but very few of
those
were in the past couple of months. I budget about $500/month on fuel.
The
monthly fuel bill is often higher, but some of the expense is shared by
friends or family.

I've been planning a trip to the Keys at the end of the month, which
will
be a budget buster...so I've been using the 17' boat more often to save
fuel.

I forgot how much I like the simplicity of a smaller boat. It's easier
to
fish nearshore with, and when the kids get hot and tired, it's easier to
pull up to a marina for lunch, or on to a beach for a swim.

The 30-footer is becoming a "specialty trip" boat...for occasional long
runs
offshore, or to a long-range destination for an overnight trip. I will
use
it more often than the little boat in the winter too, since things can
get
downright cold fishing from an open boat in January and february (even in
Florida).

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message

oups.com...



On May 16, 8:53 am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On 16 May 2007 07:28:39 -0700, Chuck Gould

wrote:
You're rooting and hoping for a collapse of the powerboat industry?
Especially large powerboats?

I don't know about large powerboats, but I stopped to visit a friend
of mine at the old Lake Webster Marina this morning and he was just
flat out depressed. Hasn't sold a new boat in 8 months and he's more
more used boats on consignment than I've ever seen there - easily 60
boats - all mid-range from 25K to 60k.

Gotta wonder about that.

It's not fair, (and life is seldom fair), but the guys shopping boats
in the 25-60K range will often be far more affected by high fuel
prices than people spending ten times as much.

I was aboard a very nice new boat on Monday that runs well, but burns
51 gph to make 31 knots. At fuel dock prices, that's in the vicinity
of $500 for a two-hour run at 31 knots. (ouch)
The buyer who can spend $300k to buy that boat will *still* feel the
pain at the pump, but fuel will be somewhat insignificant compared to
other expenses.

A boater who is maybe even making monthly payments on a $25,000 marine
mortgage
just to get out on the water is far more likely to be driven out of
the pastime entirely if his fuel bill for a day even begins to
approach $500. When boating 2-3 days per month starts to cost people
$1000 or more in fuel costs, the middle income earners and below will
begin fleeing the scene. That seems to be reflected in your friend's
experience at his marina.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well, if the AAA chart is accurate we have to be in for some relief
eventually.

http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/index.asp

If one looks at the "gap" between the price of crude and the wholesale
price from September 2006 until about Feb of 2007, and then compares
that to the same gap today, the difference is astonishing.

Rather obviously the oil companies can afford to take their foot off
our necks almost any time they want to. Question is, how soon will
they want to?

If there were any real competition, somebody would start up a new oil
company to take advantage of that gap. Whenever profits get to that
sort of level, that's when the free market economy is supposed to
spawn additional competition and bring the prices/profits down a bit.
I guess we don't have a perfect system- but then again I don't think a
perfect system exists anywhere and the one we do have is pretty good
most of the time.

Oh well.....


Where is the new company going to get their crude?

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ups.com...
On May 17, 9:56 am, "NOYB" wrote:
I have put 200 hours on my 30' boat since last June...but very few of
those
were in the past couple of months. I budget about $500/month on fuel.
The
monthly fuel bill is often higher, but some of the expense is shared by
friends or family.

I've been planning a trip to the Keys at the end of the month, which
will
be a budget buster...so I've been using the 17' boat more often to save
fuel.

I forgot how much I like the simplicity of a smaller boat. It's easier
to
fish nearshore with, and when the kids get hot and tired, it's easier to
pull up to a marina for lunch, or on to a beach for a swim.

The 30-footer is becoming a "specialty trip" boat...for occasional long
runs
offshore, or to a long-range destination for an overnight trip. I will
use
it more often than the little boat in the winter too, since things can
get
downright cold fishing from an open boat in January and february (even in
Florida).

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message

oups.com...



On May 16, 8:53 am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On 16 May 2007 07:28:39 -0700, Chuck Gould

wrote:
You're rooting and hoping for a collapse of the powerboat industry?
Especially large powerboats?

I don't know about large powerboats, but I stopped to visit a friend
of mine at the old Lake Webster Marina this morning and he was just
flat out depressed. Hasn't sold a new boat in 8 months and he's more
more used boats on consignment than I've ever seen there - easily 60
boats - all mid-range from 25K to 60k.

Gotta wonder about that.

It's not fair, (and life is seldom fair), but the guys shopping boats
in the 25-60K range will often be far more affected by high fuel
prices than people spending ten times as much.

I was aboard a very nice new boat on Monday that runs well, but burns
51 gph to make 31 knots. At fuel dock prices, that's in the vicinity
of $500 for a two-hour run at 31 knots. (ouch)
The buyer who can spend $300k to buy that boat will *still* feel the
pain at the pump, but fuel will be somewhat insignificant compared to
other expenses.

A boater who is maybe even making monthly payments on a $25,000 marine
mortgage
just to get out on the water is far more likely to be driven out of
the pastime entirely if his fuel bill for a day even begins to
approach $500. When boating 2-3 days per month starts to cost people
$1000 or more in fuel costs, the middle income earners and below will
begin fleeing the scene. That seems to be reflected in your friend's
experience at his marina.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well, if the AAA chart is accurate we have to be in for some relief
eventually.

http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/index.asp

If one looks at the "gap" between the price of crude and the wholesale
price from September 2006 until about Feb of 2007, and then compares
that to the same gap today, the difference is astonishing.

Rather obviously the oil companies can afford to take their foot off
our necks almost any time they want to. Question is, how soon will
they want to?

If there were any real competition, somebody would start up a new oil
company to take advantage of that gap. Whenever profits get to that
sort of level, that's when the free market economy is supposed to
spawn additional competition and bring the prices/profits down a bit.
I guess we don't have a perfect system- but then again I don't think a
perfect system exists anywhere and the one we do have is pretty good
most of the time.

Oh well.....

What about the government mandated summer formulations? Might they be more
costly to produce?

On May 17, 11:00 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:


Where is the new company going to get their crude?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That's *why* there's no competition. :-)

A handful of companies control most of the world's crude oil. Even
where wells have been nationalized (like the mideast) BIGOIL still
owns 49% in many cases. Since everybody is able to sell as much as
they want at whatever price they care to charge, (as long as there is
no consideration for the human misery that results), the incentive is
to help your competitors push prices higher rather than take advantage
of a competitor's high pricing to increase your own market share.