On Wed, 16 May 2007 12:01:49 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .
On 16 May 2007 07:28:39 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

You're rooting and hoping for a collapse of the powerboat industry?
Especially large powerboats?

I don't know about large powerboats, but I stopped to visit a friend
of mine at the old Lake Webster Marina this morning and he was just
flat out depressed. Hasn't sold a new boat in 8 months and he's more
more used boats on consignment than I've ever seen there - easily 60
boats - all mid-range from 25K to 60k.

Gotta wonder about that.

I certainly don't share Harry's newfound distain for larger boats and I
don't understand how he feels that harbors are clogged up with them in such
a manner that it affects those with smaller boats.

I don't either. I find smaller boats more of a pain in the ass while
fishing than "barges".

I am enjoying my "barge" as much as I ever did and I don't have to burn a
ton of fuel to do so. I'll betcha, for living in New England, I spend many
more hours on the boat during the summer than most and I enjoy every minute
of it.

And you dont have to go anywhere to do it.

That's 'da bomb. :)

On Wed, 16 May 2007 12:05:31 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"Eisboch" wrote in message
m...


I am enjoying my "barge" as much as I ever did and I don't have to burn a
ton of fuel to do so. I'll betcha, for living in New England, I spend
many more hours on the boat during the summer than most and I enjoy every
minute of it.

(it just so happens that *that's* were I am right now .... since yesterday
.... and probably through the weekend)

Mrs. E bring the equine kids home or something? :)

On May 16, 8:53 am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On 16 May 2007 07:28:39 -0700, Chuck Gould

wrote:
You're rooting and hoping for a collapse of the powerboat industry?
Especially large powerboats?

I don't know about large powerboats, but I stopped to visit a friend
of mine at the old Lake Webster Marina this morning and he was just
flat out depressed. Hasn't sold a new boat in 8 months and he's more
more used boats on consignment than I've ever seen there - easily 60
boats - all mid-range from 25K to 60k.

Gotta wonder about that.

It's not fair, (and life is seldom fair), but the guys shopping boats
in the 25-60K range will often be far more affected by high fuel
prices than people spending ten times as much.

I was aboard a very nice new boat on Monday that runs well, but burns
51 gph to make 31 knots. At fuel dock prices, that's in the vicinity
of $500 for a two-hour run at 31 knots. (ouch)
The buyer who can spend $300k to buy that boat will *still* feel the
pain at the pump, but fuel will be somewhat insignificant compared to
other expenses.

A boater who is maybe even making monthly payments on a $25,000 marine
mortgage
just to get out on the water is far more likely to be driven out of
the pastime entirely if his fuel bill for a day even begins to
approach $500. When boating 2-3 days per month starts to cost people
$1000 or more in fuel costs, the middle income earners and below will
begin fleeing the scene. That seems to be reflected in your friend's
experience at his marina.

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...


Mrs. E bring the equine kids home or something? :)

Naw...

They are supposed to be launching the GB tomorrow or Friday. It was a good
"excuse" to stay over for a few days on the other boat.

I have to leave for a while tomorrow morning, but I'll most likely come back
in the afternoon. This weekend looks like a washout weather-wise, and I
actually enjoy staying on the boat in that kind of weather.

Eisboch

Chuck Gould wrote:
On May 16, 7:45 am, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On May 16, 5:16 am, HK wrote:
I think the bell is
beginning to toll for the powerboat industry, especially for those in
the large powerboat sector. That would be a good thing.
Tell us how you really feel, Harry.
You're rooting and hoping for a collapse of the powerboat industry?
Especially large powerboats? (Do you have any idea how that would
impact the value of the five hundred thousand or so you have invested
in your lobster boat?)
Aside from name calling and making nasty comments, what the hell are
you doing hanging out in a forum that is supposed to be for *boaters*?
Perhaps your disruptive behavior in the NG is additional evidence of
your disdain for powerboating?
Have you checked rec.boats.paddle? Once you find a buyer for your
Parker, and since you only once ever reported going *anywhere* in your
otherwise absolutely unused and extremely well-hidden lobster boat, I
believe you will be down to "half a canoe".
I'd like to see a return to smaller boats. I think it would be better
for boating, better for the environment and help alleviate over-crowding
at facilities. I think it makes for better boaters, too.

When I was a young boy and then a teen-ager, and literally lived a third
of the year at water's edge, I rarely encountered any powerboats larger
than 30-34 feet, even at my father's marina, at the adjacent marinas, or
at marinas or boat clubs we visited. Most powerboats, other than
rowboats and skiffs, were between 16' and 25', inboard, outboard, and
I/O. Boating was far more affordable at the point of purchase, and in
terms of operation and maintenance, and I am not discounting the impact
of inflation.

Cripes, you can't even get into some of the better harbors anymore
because they are overclogged with 40-60 foot barges. Screw 'em.

My livelihood doesn't depend upon boats or the industry that produces or
looks after larger boats. If I were boat shopping right now, I'd
probably buy a 21-footer for use around here and down in the ocean at
Virginia Beach.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The average LOA of boats registered in most states is under 20-feet.

The companies that build those trailer boats offset a lot of their
costs with the very high markups earned in the 40-60+ category.
Competition is pretty fierce in the trailer boat arena, people tend to
shop for them with a mind set similar to looking for a "car deal", and
the production of large boats indeed subsidizes the small boat buyer.
When and if big boats go away, expect to pay a lot more for smaller
boats offered by any builders that manage to survive.

The infrastructure in those "clogged harbors" depends upon the trade
of medium and larger size boats. How long would the local fuel dock
remain in business if every customer showed up with a six-gallon
portable outboard tank and nobody took on 200 or 300 gallons of fuel
in a single transaction? Once again, the suppliers who survive would
be forced to charge significantly more.

Maybe things haven't really changed as much as you suspect. There
could be no serious debate that the vast majority of powerboats are
still under 25-feet- but because there are more boats than ever before
there are also more medium and large boats than ever.

When people start to bitch that you guys in the little boats need to
"get out of the way" so they can bring a modest 40 footer into a
"clogged" harbor, your argument will have a bit more traction, but
just as small boat buyers indirectly benefit from manufacturers earing
profits on larger craft, the owners of medium and larger boats also
need and depend upon the owners of small boats to create enough
critical mass in the marketplace to support the general infrastructure.



Goddamn, you need a pair of hip waders to trod through your pro-industry
rationalizations.

On Wed, 16 May 2007 15:53:14 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

Gotta wonder about that.

When it costs $180 to take on 50 gallons of gas, some of the wonder
goes away.

wrote:
On 16 May 2007 01:27:04 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/WAmetro.asp

Throughout nearly every major market in my home state, retail prices
for refined products were off a fraction of a cent or so on Monday
when compared to the previous day.

By the way, this is an interesting site. You can look up your own
state and track fuel pricing. On the home page of the fuel gauge
report there's a chart tracking the retail and wholesale prices of
refined products, as well as the cost of a bbl of oil at the wellhead.
There are fairly parallel lines in the retail and wholesale prices,
(although the fact that the margin between retail and wholesale is
currently below recent averages tends to dampen any optimism fostered
by a partial cent drop in retail pricing). Looking at the very flat
line on the bottom of the chart, it's easy to visualize that the price
of crude oil has next to zero effect on the price of refined products.

http://research.investopedia.com/new...ad_BC_HZO.aspx


The demise of MarineMax would be good for boating.

On 16 May 2007 09:18:37 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

On May 16, 8:53 am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On 16 May 2007 07:28:39 -0700, Chuck Gould

wrote:
You're rooting and hoping for a collapse of the powerboat industry?
Especially large powerboats?

I don't know about large powerboats, but I stopped to visit a friend
of mine at the old Lake Webster Marina this morning and he was just
flat out depressed. Hasn't sold a new boat in 8 months and he's more
more used boats on consignment than I've ever seen there - easily 60
boats - all mid-range from 25K to 60k.

Gotta wonder about that.

It's not fair, (and life is seldom fair), but the guys shopping boats
in the 25-60K range will often be far more affected by high fuel
prices than people spending ten times as much.

I was aboard a very nice new boat on Monday that runs well, but burns
51 gph to make 31 knots. At fuel dock prices, that's in the vicinity
of $500 for a two-hour run at 31 knots. (ouch)
The buyer who can spend $300k to buy that boat will *still* feel the
pain at the pump, but fuel will be somewhat insignificant compared to
other expenses.

A boater who is maybe even making monthly payments on a $25,000 marine
mortgage
just to get out on the water is far more likely to be driven out of
the pastime entirely if his fuel bill for a day even begins to
approach $500. When boating 2-3 days per month starts to cost people
$1000 or more in fuel costs, the middle income earners and below will
begin fleeing the scene. That seems to be reflected in your friend's
experience at his marina.

A lot of the showboater/speed-demon boat market will dry up, but those
who simply like to be on the water shouldn't have a problem.
Skiers and wakeboarders will get hit the hardest. Inefficient big
sportsfishers too. Big boats with sleeping quarters whose owners
really love being on the water will think harder about cruising, but
won't see a pressing need to dump the boat, especially since resale
values will be low and marina costs actually might go down.
Might be more interest in slow/ugly but efficient trawlers for
cruisers. And skiffs for fishing - since they are gas misers. You
won't keep fishermen off the water.
That's all just my idle speculation.
Personally, I've always been averse to using more fuel than necessary,
so I'll make no adjustments due to fuel prices.
Either a 19-24' skiff if I decide to just fish, or a 26-30' sailboat
if I decide to cruise. Doesn't matter what gas costs.
I got over that hurdle decades ago.
Here's a link to a Mississippi boating story that might interest you.
http://home.att.net/~a.emmons/ahchap1.htm
I liked it, and read the whole thing.
This trip was a disaster waiting to happen - luckily it didn't.
There are boats and there are boats, and this post reminded my
of something a guy in this journal named Rowboat Jimmy said.
Jimmy had "dropped out" and rowed all over the inland waterways
on some kind of rowboat never fully described.
Jimmy's arms were brawny, but he said rowing was hard on the back.
The journal author was trying to be helpful to Jimmy.
"While discussing river travel, I suggested, "Some modifications could
be made to his rowboat to provide sailing capacity." He came back
casually, "But then it wouldn’t be a rowboat."

That about sums it up.

--Vic








--Vic

On Wed, 16 May 2007 12:58:06 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Wed, 16 May 2007 15:53:14 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

Gotta wonder about that.

When it costs $180 to take on 50 gallons of gas, some of the wonder
goes away.

I phrased that badly.

I understand the why, it's just that I suspect that the first to
consolidate, if that's the correct term here, will be the small boat
market rather than the large boat market.

Make that contract rather than consolidate.

Kind of makes me glad I have an ETEC.

On Wed, 16 May 2007 12:20:56 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .


Mrs. E bring the equine kids home or something? :)

Naw...

They are supposed to be launching the GB tomorrow or Friday. It was a good
"excuse" to stay over for a few days on the other boat.

I have to leave for a while tomorrow morning, but I'll most likely come back
in the afternoon. This weekend looks like a washout weather-wise, and I
actually enjoy staying on the boat in that kind of weather.

When I was a kid, the bestest thing EVER was to head out to my Dad's
boat, sit under the overhang and watch the storm go by.

Supposedly I was "tending" the boat during the storm.

At least that's what I told him. He didn't seem to mind. :)