The cost of boating just went up. Gas hits all-time high.
 

"D.Duck" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"D.Duck" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"D.Duck" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute" wrote in
message ...

Meanwhile, asking people to grow up and
take responsibility for their actions is free, and will actually
work,
starting immediately.

So you're going to tell a single mom making $8 an hour that they
need to
trade in their 1983 Electra for a $22,000 Accord? How is that
"free"?

Are you resistant to the idea of voluntary
behavioral changes?

Nothing that involves government is voluntary. Government is by
definition
coercion ("you must") or proscription ("you can't"). That you do
not
understand this most basic concept explains the inanity of most of
your
posts.


I never said anything about telling anyone to trade in their car
immediately. I'm talking about upcoming purchases. And, there is
nothing coercive about a president using his TV time to ask people to
rethink their habits.

Does this qualify?

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/09/27/business/gas.php


It doesn't go far enough, because asking people to pick a different car
is venturing into a decision that verges on religion. I can't think of
any other product which is so tightly bound to people's egos or
crotches than automobiles. Like I said, it would take a real president
with balls to touch the subject. The message would be somewhat
insulting, but sometimes, people need a bucket of cold water dumped on
their heads.

This is from the above link. Sounds like he did ask us to cut back, not
only to buy more efficient vehicles

He added that if Americans could avoid going on "a trip that's not
essential," that would be "helpful."

He also issued a directive for all federal agencies to cut their own
energy use and to encourage employees to use public transportation.


Not far enough. Sorry. I understand I may be insulting one of your icons,
but that's just the way it goes.

He's not one of my icons. I don't agree with many of the things he has
and has not done. But you said he should say something....he already has.


In order for this to be done right, it would require a real president, as I
stated earlier. We do not have that at this moment. Someone like Mario Cuomo
would be an example of someone real. Someone who can function without a
script.

The cost of boating just went up. Gas hits all-time high.
 

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Tim" wrote in message
oups.com...

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message
. ..

Do you know what cracks me up about some of the various views
expressed
about fuel prices?

It wasn't too many years ago that those with more left leaning
political
views were concerned about the high consumption rate of gasoline in
the
USA, it's continued supply and it's artificially low price per gallon
compared to the rest of the world. Conservation was preached,
encouraged
and some even advocated raising the price of gas to force further
conservation and the use of smaller, fuel efficient autos in order to
reduce demand.


Fast forward to today and it seems that the same people are now
blaming
big business greed and politicians lining their pockets for the
natural
increase in prices.

Can't win.

Eisboch


The problem with preaching conservation is that the suggested methods
usually involve long term solutions. I wonder what would happen if a
real
president with some balls said the following during one of his TV
appearances:

"I can fund research until the cows come home, but we might never find
solutions which make every type of vehicle more efficient. And, at some
point, you have to stop looking for others to find solutions, and
volunteer
to do the one thing that's inarguably effective. Next time you're ready
to
buy a car, be honest, and buy based on your real needs. Stop thinking
that
the only alternative to an SUV is a Ford Focus. Ignore the crap you're
being
told in the commercials. Is the only reason you bought an SUV that you
have
a family of 5 and a week's worth of groceries? Wouldn't a van fit your
needs
equally well? Did you justify the SUV by convincing yourself they were
safer, or that you wanted to be able to see over all the other trucks?
Did
you buy a pickup to haul 3 sheets of plywood just once in the entire
time
you owned the vehicle? Those aren't reasons. I'm not saying you have to
go
out and buy a Prius or a Mini-Cooper. But, how about reducing your gas
usage
by 30%, just by looking at the difference between an SUV and a mini-van?
(points to chart with 5 car models shown below) We can't create laws to
change your buying habits, and there's nothing I can do about what oil
companies charge for fuel. But, you are capable of having a significant
impact on how much oil this country uses.

If you're not buying a car this year, write to your favorite car
manufacturer and tell them what you want to buy when you're ready. If
they
continue to pile up SUVs at their dealerships, that's their problem, not
yours.

During WWII, our grandparents planted victory gardens. You can't pick a
better car, in order to help this country? Grow up already."


Toyota Sequoia SUV: 15/18 mpg
Toyota Sienna van: 19/26 mpg
Chrysler Town & Country van: 19/26 mpg
Ford Crown Victoria: 17/26 mpg
Buick Lucerne: 17/28 mpg


Very valid and convincing thought, but *grow up, already* would shoot
it down.


Maybe. But let's face it: It's true. The only way to deny it is to give
many consumers a pass by saying they were brainwashed by advertising,
which is pretty powerful stuff.


Here you go again trying to dictate what consumers can purchase.

Regarding the advertising, the Big 3 have knocked off attacking each other
and are focusing on "buy American". The problem is that buying American may
mean buying a Toyota and not a Cadillac. It is now a global economy and one
can no longer be assured that the GM, Ford or Chrysler product is
manufactured in the US or that the majority of components are US made.

The Big 3 deserves what is happening to them. Lack of foresight, management
giving the unions whatever they wanted and executives receiving outrageous
salaries/bonus's/incentives have led to their demise. One example is the
new Ford CEO, Alan Mulally (hired on September, 2006 taking over after Bill
Ford Jr resigned) taking in $39 million in salary, stock options and bonus
money for those 4 months. This was after Ford had a net loss of almost $13
billion in 2006.

They continue to dig their own grave.

The cost of boating just went up. Gas hits all-time high.
 

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"D.Duck" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"D.Duck" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"D.Duck" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute" wrote in
message ...

Meanwhile, asking people to grow up and
take responsibility for their actions is free, and will actually
work,
starting immediately.

So you're going to tell a single mom making $8 an hour that they
need to
trade in their 1983 Electra for a $22,000 Accord? How is that
"free"?

Are you resistant to the idea of voluntary
behavioral changes?

Nothing that involves government is voluntary. Government is by
definition
coercion ("you must") or proscription ("you can't"). That you do
not
understand this most basic concept explains the inanity of most of
your
posts.


I never said anything about telling anyone to trade in their car
immediately. I'm talking about upcoming purchases. And, there is
nothing coercive about a president using his TV time to ask people
to rethink their habits.

Does this qualify?

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/09/27/business/gas.php


It doesn't go far enough, because asking people to pick a different
car is venturing into a decision that verges on religion. I can't
think of any other product which is so tightly bound to people's egos
or crotches than automobiles. Like I said, it would take a real
president with balls to touch the subject. The message would be
somewhat insulting, but sometimes, people need a bucket of cold water
dumped on their heads.

This is from the above link. Sounds like he did ask us to cut back,
not only to buy more efficient vehicles

He added that if Americans could avoid going on "a trip that's not
essential," that would be "helpful."

He also issued a directive for all federal agencies to cut their own
energy use and to encourage employees to use public transportation.


Not far enough. Sorry. I understand I may be insulting one of your
icons, but that's just the way it goes.

He's not one of my icons. I don't agree with many of the things he has
and has not done. But you said he should say something....he already has.


In order for this to be done right, it would require a real president, as
I stated earlier. We do not have that at this moment. Someone like Mario
Cuomo would be an example of someone real. Someone who can function
without a script.


"Just Say No to Drugs" worked great! Eh?

The cost of boating just went up. Gas hits all-time high.
 

"JimH" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"D.Duck" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"D.Duck" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"D.Duck" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute" wrote in
message ...

Meanwhile, asking people to grow up and
take responsibility for their actions is free, and will actually
work,
starting immediately.

So you're going to tell a single mom making $8 an hour that they
need to
trade in their 1983 Electra for a $22,000 Accord? How is that
"free"?

Are you resistant to the idea of voluntary
behavioral changes?

Nothing that involves government is voluntary. Government is by
definition
coercion ("you must") or proscription ("you can't"). That you do
not
understand this most basic concept explains the inanity of most of
your
posts.


I never said anything about telling anyone to trade in their car
immediately. I'm talking about upcoming purchases. And, there is
nothing coercive about a president using his TV time to ask people
to rethink their habits.

Does this qualify?

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/09/27/business/gas.php


It doesn't go far enough, because asking people to pick a different
car is venturing into a decision that verges on religion. I can't
think of any other product which is so tightly bound to people's egos
or crotches than automobiles. Like I said, it would take a real
president with balls to touch the subject. The message would be
somewhat insulting, but sometimes, people need a bucket of cold water
dumped on their heads.

This is from the above link. Sounds like he did ask us to cut back,
not only to buy more efficient vehicles

He added that if Americans could avoid going on "a trip that's not
essential," that would be "helpful."

He also issued a directive for all federal agencies to cut their own
energy use and to encourage employees to use public transportation.


Not far enough. Sorry. I understand I may be insulting one of your
icons, but that's just the way it goes.

He's not one of my icons. I don't agree with many of the things he has
and has not done. But you said he should say something....he already
has.


In order for this to be done right, it would require a real president, as
I stated earlier. We do not have that at this moment. Someone like Mario
Cuomo would be an example of someone real. Someone who can function
without a script.


"Just Say No to Drugs" worked great! Eh?


And that was a response to what in particular, assuming you can still
remember why you typed it?

The cost of boating just went up. Gas hits all-time high.
 

"JimH" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Tim" wrote in message
oups.com...

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message
. ..

Do you know what cracks me up about some of the various views
expressed
about fuel prices?

It wasn't too many years ago that those with more left leaning
political
views were concerned about the high consumption rate of gasoline in
the
USA, it's continued supply and it's artificially low price per gallon
compared to the rest of the world. Conservation was preached,
encouraged
and some even advocated raising the price of gas to force further
conservation and the use of smaller, fuel efficient autos in order to
reduce demand.


Fast forward to today and it seems that the same people are now
blaming
big business greed and politicians lining their pockets for the
natural
increase in prices.

Can't win.

Eisboch


The problem with preaching conservation is that the suggested methods
usually involve long term solutions. I wonder what would happen if a
real
president with some balls said the following during one of his TV
appearances:

"I can fund research until the cows come home, but we might never find
solutions which make every type of vehicle more efficient. And, at some
point, you have to stop looking for others to find solutions, and
volunteer
to do the one thing that's inarguably effective. Next time you're ready
to
buy a car, be honest, and buy based on your real needs. Stop thinking
that
the only alternative to an SUV is a Ford Focus. Ignore the crap you're
being
told in the commercials. Is the only reason you bought an SUV that you
have
a family of 5 and a week's worth of groceries? Wouldn't a van fit your
needs
equally well? Did you justify the SUV by convincing yourself they were
safer, or that you wanted to be able to see over all the other trucks?
Did
you buy a pickup to haul 3 sheets of plywood just once in the entire
time
you owned the vehicle? Those aren't reasons. I'm not saying you have to
go
out and buy a Prius or a Mini-Cooper. But, how about reducing your gas
usage
by 30%, just by looking at the difference between an SUV and a
mini-van?
(points to chart with 5 car models shown below) We can't create laws to
change your buying habits, and there's nothing I can do about what oil
companies charge for fuel. But, you are capable of having a significant
impact on how much oil this country uses.

If you're not buying a car this year, write to your favorite car
manufacturer and tell them what you want to buy when you're ready. If
they
continue to pile up SUVs at their dealerships, that's their problem,
not
yours.

During WWII, our grandparents planted victory gardens. You can't pick a
better car, in order to help this country? Grow up already."


Toyota Sequoia SUV: 15/18 mpg
Toyota Sienna van: 19/26 mpg
Chrysler Town & Country van: 19/26 mpg
Ford Crown Victoria: 17/26 mpg
Buick Lucerne: 17/28 mpg


Very valid and convincing thought, but *grow up, already* would shoot
it down.


Maybe. But let's face it: It's true. The only way to deny it is to give
many consumers a pass by saying they were brainwashed by advertising,
which is pretty powerful stuff.


Here you go again trying to dictate what consumers can purchase.


Once again, I said nothing of the sort. But, as I wrote the original
message, I wondered if you or someone like you would come along and claim
something was being "dictated". You're very predictable.

You wreck 3 right rear tires in a month. Your mechanic says "You really
should stop grinding them against the curb when you park". Is he dictating?



Everything below is irrelevant to what I said in the original message.

Regarding the advertising, the Big 3 have knocked off attacking each other
and are focusing on "buy American". The problem is that buying American
may mean buying a Toyota and not a Cadillac. It is now a global economy
and one can no longer be assured that the GM, Ford or Chrysler product is
manufactured in the US or that the majority of components are US made.

The Big 3 deserves what is happening to them. Lack of foresight,
management giving the unions whatever they wanted and executives receiving
outrageous salaries/bonus's/incentives have led to their demise. One
example is the new Ford CEO, Alan Mulally (hired on September, 2006 taking
over after Bill Ford Jr resigned) taking in $39 million in salary, stock
options and bonus money for those 4 months. This was after Ford had a net
loss of almost $13 billion in 2006.

They continue to dig their own grave.

The cost of boating just went up. Gas hits all-time high.
 

wrote in message
...
On 08 May 2007 18:03:20 GMT, "Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute"
wrote:


All the more reason to storm the statehouse. And then open ANWR :-).

Opening ANWR is projected to reduce the net share of foreign oil used
by U.S. consumers in 2020 from 62 to 60 percent. That is very little
benefit for unnecessarily risking a valuable tourism resource.

A tourism resource???????????

The cost of boating just went up. Gas hits all-time high.
 

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...

It doesn't go far enough, because asking people to pick a different car is
venturing into a decision that verges on religion. I can't think of any
other product which is so tightly bound to people's egos or crotches than
automobiles. Like I said, it would take a real president with balls to
touch the subject. The message would be somewhat insulting, but sometimes,
people need a bucket of cold water dumped on their heads.


Have no fear. The concept of supply and demand in a free market will do all
the policing required. At some price people will take drastic action and
demand will fall quickly. The oil companies and others involved still have
to sell product to sustain growth while covering costs.
Prices will drop.

Eisboch

The cost of boating just went up. Gas hits all-time high.
 

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...

It doesn't go far enough, because asking people to pick a different car
is venturing into a decision that verges on religion. I can't think of
any other product which is so tightly bound to people's egos or crotches
than automobiles. Like I said, it would take a real president with balls
to touch the subject. The message would be somewhat insulting, but
sometimes, people need a bucket of cold water dumped on their heads.


Have no fear. The concept of supply and demand in a free market will do
all the policing required. At some price people will take drastic action
and demand will fall quickly. The oil companies and others involved still
have to sell product to sustain growth while covering costs.
Prices will drop.

Eisboch


I'm not so sure about that. A lot of people think that if they can afford
expensive gasoline, it means there's no problem. They don't think outside of
their own situation. Someone needs to impress upon them (through
suggestions, not laws) that "there's a world outside of you". The prevalence
of certain types of vehicles is proof that this message hasn't gotten
through yet.

The cost of boating just went up. Gas hits all-time high.
 

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"JimH" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Tim" wrote in message
oups.com...

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message
. ..

Do you know what cracks me up about some of the various views
expressed
about fuel prices?

It wasn't too many years ago that those with more left leaning
political
views were concerned about the high consumption rate of gasoline in
the
USA, it's continued supply and it's artificially low price per
gallon
compared to the rest of the world. Conservation was preached,
encouraged
and some even advocated raising the price of gas to force further
conservation and the use of smaller, fuel efficient autos in order
to
reduce demand.


Fast forward to today and it seems that the same people are now
blaming
big business greed and politicians lining their pockets for the
natural
increase in prices.

Can't win.

Eisboch


The problem with preaching conservation is that the suggested methods
usually involve long term solutions. I wonder what would happen if a
real
president with some balls said the following during one of his TV
appearances:

"I can fund research until the cows come home, but we might never find
solutions which make every type of vehicle more efficient. And, at
some
point, you have to stop looking for others to find solutions, and
volunteer
to do the one thing that's inarguably effective. Next time you're
ready to
buy a car, be honest, and buy based on your real needs. Stop thinking
that
the only alternative to an SUV is a Ford Focus. Ignore the crap you're
being
told in the commercials. Is the only reason you bought an SUV that you
have
a family of 5 and a week's worth of groceries? Wouldn't a van fit your
needs
equally well? Did you justify the SUV by convincing yourself they were
safer, or that you wanted to be able to see over all the other trucks?
Did
you buy a pickup to haul 3 sheets of plywood just once in the entire
time
you owned the vehicle? Those aren't reasons. I'm not saying you have
to go
out and buy a Prius or a Mini-Cooper. But, how about reducing your gas
usage
by 30%, just by looking at the difference between an SUV and a
mini-van?
(points to chart with 5 car models shown below) We can't create laws
to
change your buying habits, and there's nothing I can do about what oil
companies charge for fuel. But, you are capable of having a
significant
impact on how much oil this country uses.

If you're not buying a car this year, write to your favorite car
manufacturer and tell them what you want to buy when you're ready. If
they
continue to pile up SUVs at their dealerships, that's their problem,
not
yours.

During WWII, our grandparents planted victory gardens. You can't pick
a
better car, in order to help this country? Grow up already."


Toyota Sequoia SUV: 15/18 mpg
Toyota Sienna van: 19/26 mpg
Chrysler Town & Country van: 19/26 mpg
Ford Crown Victoria: 17/26 mpg
Buick Lucerne: 17/28 mpg


Very valid and convincing thought, but *grow up, already* would shoot
it down.


Maybe. But let's face it: It's true. The only way to deny it is to give
many consumers a pass by saying they were brainwashed by advertising,
which is pretty powerful stuff.


Here you go again trying to dictate what consumers can purchase.


Once again, I said nothing of the sort. But, as I wrote the original
message, I wondered if you or someone like you would come along and claim
something was being "dictated".


Nice spin. No cigar though.




Everything below is irrelevant to what I said in the original message.



Not really........you brought up the auto advertising.



Regarding the advertising, the Big 3 have knocked off attacking each
other and are focusing on "buy American". The problem is that buying
American may mean buying a Toyota and not a Cadillac. It is now a global
economy and one can no longer be assured that the GM, Ford or Chrysler
product is manufactured in the US or that the majority of components are
US made.

The Big 3 deserves what is happening to them. Lack of foresight,
management giving the unions whatever they wanted and executives
receiving outrageous salaries/bonus's/incentives have led to their
demise. One example is the new Ford CEO, Alan Mulally (hired on
September, 2006 taking over after Bill Ford Jr resigned) taking in $39
million in salary, stock options and bonus money for those 4 months.
This was after Ford had a net loss of almost $13 billion in 2006.

They continue to dig their own grave.

The cost of boating just went up. Gas hits all-time high.
 

"JimH" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"JimH" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Tim" wrote in message
oups.com...

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message
. ..

Do you know what cracks me up about some of the various views
expressed
about fuel prices?

It wasn't too many years ago that those with more left leaning
political
views were concerned about the high consumption rate of gasoline in
the
USA, it's continued supply and it's artificially low price per
gallon
compared to the rest of the world. Conservation was preached,
encouraged
and some even advocated raising the price of gas to force further
conservation and the use of smaller, fuel efficient autos in order
to
reduce demand.


Fast forward to today and it seems that the same people are now
blaming
big business greed and politicians lining their pockets for the
natural
increase in prices.

Can't win.

Eisboch


The problem with preaching conservation is that the suggested methods
usually involve long term solutions. I wonder what would happen if a
real
president with some balls said the following during one of his TV
appearances:

"I can fund research until the cows come home, but we might never
find
solutions which make every type of vehicle more efficient. And, at
some
point, you have to stop looking for others to find solutions, and
volunteer
to do the one thing that's inarguably effective. Next time you're
ready to
buy a car, be honest, and buy based on your real needs. Stop thinking
that
the only alternative to an SUV is a Ford Focus. Ignore the crap
you're being
told in the commercials. Is the only reason you bought an SUV that
you have
a family of 5 and a week's worth of groceries? Wouldn't a van fit
your needs
equally well? Did you justify the SUV by convincing yourself they
were
safer, or that you wanted to be able to see over all the other
trucks? Did
you buy a pickup to haul 3 sheets of plywood just once in the entire
time
you owned the vehicle? Those aren't reasons. I'm not saying you have
to go
out and buy a Prius or a Mini-Cooper. But, how about reducing your
gas usage
by 30%, just by looking at the difference between an SUV and a
mini-van?
(points to chart with 5 car models shown below) We can't create laws
to
change your buying habits, and there's nothing I can do about what
oil
companies charge for fuel. But, you are capable of having a
significant
impact on how much oil this country uses.

If you're not buying a car this year, write to your favorite car
manufacturer and tell them what you want to buy when you're ready. If
they
continue to pile up SUVs at their dealerships, that's their problem,
not
yours.

During WWII, our grandparents planted victory gardens. You can't pick
a
better car, in order to help this country? Grow up already."


Toyota Sequoia SUV: 15/18 mpg
Toyota Sienna van: 19/26 mpg
Chrysler Town & Country van: 19/26 mpg
Ford Crown Victoria: 17/26 mpg
Buick Lucerne: 17/28 mpg


Very valid and convincing thought, but *grow up, already* would shoot
it down.


Maybe. But let's face it: It's true. The only way to deny it is to give
many consumers a pass by saying they were brainwashed by advertising,
which is pretty powerful stuff.


Here you go again trying to dictate what consumers can purchase.


Once again, I said nothing of the sort. But, as I wrote the original
message, I wondered if you or someone like you would come along and claim
something was being "dictated".


Nice spin. No cigar though.


No spin. I remembered that you or one of your clones had the same reaction
in the past. It went even further - some bull**** about "too much government
from the left". During WWII, do you think FDR talked to the nation about
having to make certain sacrifices? Was it viewed as dictating, or asking for
participation?

The cost of boating just went up. Gas hits all-time high.
 

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"JimH" wrote in message
...

In order for this to be done right, it would require a real president,
as I stated earlier. We do not have that at this moment. Someone like
Mario Cuomo would be an example of someone real. Someone who can
function without a script.


"Just Say No to Drugs" worked great! Eh?


And that was a response to what in particular, assuming you can still
remember why you typed it?


I guess you don't remember posting "And, there is nothing coercive about a
president using his TV time to ask people to rethink their habits." That
slogan was not coercive but it certainly did nothing.

On a personal note: You would carry more credibility in a discussion if you
would stop the personal attacks as they generally show that you have nothing
else to add to support your position. Give it a try Doug.

The cost of boating just went up. Gas hits all-time high.
 

"JimH" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"JimH" wrote in message
...

In order for this to be done right, it would require a real president,
as I stated earlier. We do not have that at this moment. Someone like
Mario Cuomo would be an example of someone real. Someone who can
function without a script.


"Just Say No to Drugs" worked great! Eh?


And that was a response to what in particular, assuming you can still
remember why you typed it?


I guess you don't remember posting "And, there is nothing coercive about a
president using his TV time to ask people to rethink their habits." That
slogan was not coercive but it certainly did nothing.

On a personal note: You would carry more credibility in a discussion if
you would stop the personal attacks as they generally show that you have
nothing else to add to support your position. Give it a try Doug.



You think a president making suggestions would be an example of coercion?

The cost of boating just went up. Gas hits all-time high.
 

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"JimH" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"JimH" wrote in message
...

In order for this to be done right, it would require a real president,
as I stated earlier. We do not have that at this moment. Someone like
Mario Cuomo would be an example of someone real. Someone who can
function without a script.


"Just Say No to Drugs" worked great! Eh?


And that was a response to what in particular, assuming you can still
remember why you typed it?


I guess you don't remember posting "And, there is nothing coercive about
a president using his TV time to ask people to rethink their habits."
That slogan was not coercive but it certainly did nothing.

On a personal note: You would carry more credibility in a discussion if
you would stop the personal attacks as they generally show that you have
nothing else to add to support your position. Give it a try Doug.



You think a president making suggestions would be an example of coercion?


Remind me where I said that Doug.

The cost of boating just went up. Gas hits all-time high.
 

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...


I'm not so sure about that. A lot of people think that if they can afford
expensive gasoline, it means there's no problem. They don't think outside
of their own situation. Someone needs to impress upon them (through
suggestions, not laws) that "there's a world outside of you". The
prevalence of certain types of vehicles is proof that this message hasn't
gotten through yet.


That's because we are a relatively free society that measures cost versus
benefit on an individual basis. We are not accustomed to being "told" what
to do with our personal resources nor do most respond well to lectures.

But .... at some point ... each of us, based on our own situations, will
make the judgment that maybe the SUV really isn't necessary because the fuel
for it is getting too expensive. In time even those left that can afford
the high gas prices won't be driving them because the automakers will no
longer be building them.

Supply and demand, man.

Eisboch

The cost of boating just went up. Gas hits all-time high.
 

"JimH" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"JimH" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"JimH" wrote in message
...

In order for this to be done right, it would require a real
president, as I stated earlier. We do not have that at this moment.
Someone like Mario Cuomo would be an example of someone real. Someone
who can function without a script.


"Just Say No to Drugs" worked great! Eh?


And that was a response to what in particular, assuming you can still
remember why you typed it?


I guess you don't remember posting "And, there is nothing coercive about
a president using his TV time to ask people to rethink their habits."
That slogan was not coercive but it certainly did nothing.

On a personal note: You would carry more credibility in a discussion if
you would stop the personal attacks as they generally show that you have
nothing else to add to support your position. Give it a try Doug.



You think a president making suggestions would be an example of coercion?


Remind me where I said that Doug.

Right here, Jimmy boy. 4:47 PM today:
"Here you go again trying to dictate what consumers can purchase."

The cost of boating just went up. Gas hits all-time high.
 

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"JimH" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"JimH" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Tim" wrote in message
oups.com...

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message
. ..

Do you know what cracks me up about some of the various views
expressed
about fuel prices?

It wasn't too many years ago that those with more left leaning
political
views were concerned about the high consumption rate of gasoline
in the
USA, it's continued supply and it's artificially low price per
gallon
compared to the rest of the world. Conservation was preached,
encouraged
and some even advocated raising the price of gas to force further
conservation and the use of smaller, fuel efficient autos in order
to
reduce demand.


Fast forward to today and it seems that the same people are now
blaming
big business greed and politicians lining their pockets for the
natural
increase in prices.

Can't win.

Eisboch


The problem with preaching conservation is that the suggested
methods
usually involve long term solutions. I wonder what would happen if a
real
president with some balls said the following during one of his TV
appearances:

"I can fund research until the cows come home, but we might never
find
solutions which make every type of vehicle more efficient. And, at
some
point, you have to stop looking for others to find solutions, and
volunteer
to do the one thing that's inarguably effective. Next time you're
ready to
buy a car, be honest, and buy based on your real needs. Stop
thinking that
the only alternative to an SUV is a Ford Focus. Ignore the crap
you're being
told in the commercials. Is the only reason you bought an SUV that
you have
a family of 5 and a week's worth of groceries? Wouldn't a van fit
your needs
equally well? Did you justify the SUV by convincing yourself they
were
safer, or that you wanted to be able to see over all the other
trucks? Did
you buy a pickup to haul 3 sheets of plywood just once in the entire
time
you owned the vehicle? Those aren't reasons. I'm not saying you have
to go
out and buy a Prius or a Mini-Cooper. But, how about reducing your
gas usage
by 30%, just by looking at the difference between an SUV and a
mini-van?
(points to chart with 5 car models shown below) We can't create laws
to
change your buying habits, and there's nothing I can do about what
oil
companies charge for fuel. But, you are capable of having a
significant
impact on how much oil this country uses.

If you're not buying a car this year, write to your favorite car
manufacturer and tell them what you want to buy when you're ready.
If they
continue to pile up SUVs at their dealerships, that's their problem,
not
yours.

During WWII, our grandparents planted victory gardens. You can't
pick a
better car, in order to help this country? Grow up already."


Toyota Sequoia SUV: 15/18 mpg
Toyota Sienna van: 19/26 mpg
Chrysler Town & Country van: 19/26 mpg
Ford Crown Victoria: 17/26 mpg
Buick Lucerne: 17/28 mpg


Very valid and convincing thought, but *grow up, already* would shoot
it down.


Maybe. But let's face it: It's true. The only way to deny it is to
give many consumers a pass by saying they were brainwashed by
advertising, which is pretty powerful stuff.


Here you go again trying to dictate what consumers can purchase.


Once again, I said nothing of the sort. But, as I wrote the original
message, I wondered if you or someone like you would come along and
claim something was being "dictated".


Nice spin. No cigar though.


No spin. I remembered that you or one of your clones had the same
reaction......


When will I learn that trying to carry on an adult level discussion with you
is impossible.

Have a great night Doug. I am done with you.


Everything below is irrelevant to what I said in the original message.



Not really........you brought up the auto advertising.



Regarding the advertising, the Big 3 have knocked off attacking each
other and are focusing on "buy American". The problem is that buying
American may mean buying a Toyota and not a Cadillac. It is now a
global economy and one can no longer be assured that the GM, Ford or
Chrysler product is manufactured in the US or that the majority of
components are US made.

The Big 3 deserves what is happening to them. Lack of foresight,
management giving the unions whatever they wanted and executives
receiving outrageous salaries/bonus's/incentives have led to their
demise. One example is the new Ford CEO, Alan Mulally (hired on
September, 2006 taking over after Bill Ford Jr resigned) taking in $39
million in salary, stock options and bonus money for those 4 months.
This was after Ford had a net loss of almost $13 billion in 2006.

They continue to dig their own grave.

The cost of boating just went up. Gas hits all-time high.
 

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...


I'm not so sure about that. A lot of people think that if they can afford
expensive gasoline, it means there's no problem. They don't think outside
of their own situation. Someone needs to impress upon them (through
suggestions, not laws) that "there's a world outside of you". The
prevalence of certain types of vehicles is proof that this message hasn't
gotten through yet.


That's because we are a relatively free society that measures cost versus
benefit on an individual basis. We are not accustomed to being "told"
what to do with our personal resources nor do most respond well to
lectures.

But .... at some point ... each of us, based on our own situations, will
make the judgment that maybe the SUV really isn't necessary because the
fuel for it is getting too expensive. In time even those left that can
afford the high gas prices won't be driving them because the automakers
will no longer be building them.

Supply and demand, man.

Eisboch


I see it as an issue of supporting countries where people are taught that we
should be destroyed. But hey....that's nothing, right? Everyone's free to
support terrorist regimes.

The cost of boating just went up. Gas hits all-time high.
 

"JimH" wrote in message
...


Here you go again trying to dictate what consumers can purchase.


Once again, I said nothing of the sort. But, as I wrote the original
message, I wondered if you or someone like you would come along and
claim something was being "dictated".


Nice spin. No cigar though.


No spin. I remembered that you or one of your clones had the same
reaction......


When will I learn that trying to carry on an adult level discussion with
you is impossible.

Have a great night Doug. I am done with you.


You've got to be careful how you brand yourself. The marks remain visible
forever. You have kneejerk reaction to the suggestion that individuals can
improve conditions in this country. You want someone else to fix things. By
my definition, that is treason. You should renounce your citizenship.

The cost of boating just went up. Gas hits all-time high.
 

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"JimH" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"JimH" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"JimH" wrote in message
...

In order for this to be done right, it would require a real
president, as I stated earlier. We do not have that at this moment.
Someone like Mario Cuomo would be an example of someone real.
Someone who can function without a script.


"Just Say No to Drugs" worked great! Eh?


And that was a response to what in particular, assuming you can still
remember why you typed it?


I guess you don't remember posting "And, there is nothing coercive
about a president using his TV time to ask people to rethink their
habits." That slogan was not coercive but it certainly did nothing.

On a personal note: You would carry more credibility in a discussion
if you would stop the personal attacks as they generally show that you
have nothing else to add to support your position. Give it a try
Doug.



You think a president making suggestions would be an example of
coercion?


Remind me where I said that Doug.

Right here, Jimmy boy. 4:47 PM today:
"Here you go again trying to dictate what consumers can purchase."



Come on Doug........you are spinning again. I was referring to the mandates
you suggested now and in the past.

On the other hand........never mind..........as I said in my earlier post to
this thread I am done with you one cannot carry on a discussion with on an
adult level.

Have a nice evening Doug.

The cost of boating just went up. Gas hits all-time high.
 

"JimH" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"JimH" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"JimH" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"JimH" wrote in message
...

In order for this to be done right, it would require a real
president, as I stated earlier. We do not have that at this moment.
Someone like Mario Cuomo would be an example of someone real.
Someone who can function without a script.


"Just Say No to Drugs" worked great! Eh?


And that was a response to what in particular, assuming you can still
remember why you typed it?


I guess you don't remember posting "And, there is nothing coercive
about a president using his TV time to ask people to rethink their
habits." That slogan was not coercive but it certainly did nothing.

On a personal note: You would carry more credibility in a discussion
if you would stop the personal attacks as they generally show that you
have nothing else to add to support your position. Give it a try
Doug.



You think a president making suggestions would be an example of
coercion?


Remind me where I said that Doug.

Right here, Jimmy boy. 4:47 PM today:
"Here you go again trying to dictate what consumers can purchase."



Come on Doug........you are spinning again. I was referring to the
mandates you suggested now and in the past.

On the other hand........never mind..........as I said in my earlier post
to this thread I am done with you one cannot carry on a discussion with on
an adult level.

Apprently, you're not done. I said a president should suggest changes. You
turned it into my dictating what people should buy, JUST AS YOU HAVE DONE IN
THE PAST.

The cost of boating just went up. Gas hits all-time high.
 

On May 8, 4:03 pm, "RCE" wrote:

At some price people will take drastic action and
demand will fall quickly. The oil companies and others involved still have
to sell product to sustain growth while covering costs.
Prices will drop.

Eisboch


YEAH. like "Do NOT buy gas on Mat 15th!"

that'll teach 'em!

The cost of boating just went up. Gas hits all-time high.
 

YEAH. like "Do NOT buy gas on Mat 15th!"

Er...May 15th"

The cost of boating just went up. Gas hits all-time high.
 

"Tim" wrote in message
oups.com...
On May 8, 4:03 pm, "RCE" wrote:

At some price people will take drastic action and
demand will fall quickly. The oil companies and others involved still
have
to sell product to sustain growth while covering costs.
Prices will drop.

Eisboch


YEAH. like "Do NOT buy gas on May 15th!"

that'll teach 'em!


So you got that email also......he-he-he. When will those idiots learn that
their plan just will not work?

The cost of boating just went up. Gas hits all-time high.
 

NOYB wrote:
"wf3h" wrote in message

what i love about this is, when ira magaziner and hilary clintion
tried to get us universal health care

To which office was Hillary elected to in 1992?

to the office she was appointed to by the president of the USA. ever
hear of THAT office?

Then what right did she have to make policy that would have destroyed the
healthcare system for 260,000,000 Americans with insurance so that
40,000,000 uninsured could get access?

and when DID you stop beating your wife? incidentally, 300,000,000
americans use energy....that dick cheney feels so deeply belongs only
to the rich.

The cost of boating just went up. Gas hits all-time high.
 

On Tue, 08 May 2007 17:27:10 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

Toyota Sequoia SUV: 15/18 mpg
Toyota Sienna van: 19/26 mpg
Chrysler Town & Country van: 19/26 mpg
Ford Crown Victoria: 17/26 mpg
Buick Lucerne: 17/28 mpg

Ford F-25- 7.3 liter diesel - 17/22 mpg

The cost of boating just went up. Gas hits all-time high.
 

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
ink.net...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Eisboch" wrote in message
. ..

Do you know what cracks me up about some of the various views expressed
about fuel prices?

It wasn't too many years ago that those with more left leaning
political views were concerned about the high consumption rate of
gasoline in the USA, it's continued supply and it's artificially low
price per gallon compared to the rest of the world. Conservation was
preached, encouraged and some even advocated raising the price of gas
to force further conservation and the use of smaller, fuel efficient
autos in order to reduce demand.


Fast forward to today and it seems that the same people are now blaming
big business greed and politicians lining their pockets for the natural
increase in prices.

Can't win.

Eisboch


The problem with preaching conservation is that the suggested methods
usually involve long term solutions. I wonder what would happen if a
real president with some balls said the following during one of his TV
appearances:

"I can fund research until the cows come home, but we might never find
solutions which make every type of vehicle more efficient. And, at some
point, you have to stop looking for others to find solutions, and
volunteer to do the one thing that's inarguably effective. Next time
you're ready to buy a car, be honest, and buy based on your real needs.
Stop thinking that the only alternative to an SUV is a Ford Focus.
Ignore the crap you're being told in the commercials. Is the only reason
you bought an SUV that you have a family of 5 and a week's worth of
groceries? Wouldn't a van fit your needs equally well? Did you justify
the SUV by convincing yourself they were safer, or that you wanted to be
able to see over all the other trucks? Did you buy a pickup to haul 3
sheets of plywood just once in the entire time you owned the vehicle?
Those aren't reasons. I'm not saying you have to go out and buy a Prius
or a Mini-Cooper. But, how about reducing your gas usage by 30%, just by
looking at the difference between an SUV and a mini-van? (points to
chart with 5 car models shown below) We can't create laws to change your
buying habits, and there's nothing I can do about what oil companies
charge for fuel. But, you are capable of having a significant impact on
how much oil this country uses.

If you're not buying a car this year, write to your favorite car
manufacturer and tell them what you want to buy when you're ready. If
they continue to pile up SUVs at their dealerships, that's their
problem, not yours.

During WWII, our grandparents planted victory gardens. You can't pick a
better car, in order to help this country? Grow up already."


Toyota Sequoia SUV: 15/18 mpg
Toyota Sienna van: 19/26 mpg
Chrysler Town & Country van: 19/26 mpg
Ford Crown Victoria: 17/26 mpg
Buick Lucerne: 17/28 mpg


What is an SUV? My wife drives a 1996 S-10 Blazer. It is smaller than
the Sienna van.


You know exactly what I mean. Stick with the example shown, since it is
100% valid in this context.


Nope, what is an SUV? The boogey man of the 21st century. Why is it when
an SUV type vehicle is in an accident, it is always reported the SUV
crashed. But if it is a mini car that crashed into the SUV, it will read
SUV involed in accident. The first reporting seems as if the SUV is doing
the driving, not a person.

The cost of boating just went up. Gas hits all-time high.
 

"Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute" wrote in message
...
In message nk.net,
Calif Bill sprach forth the following:


The rules of a capitalistic market do not apply when the raw materials
are controlled by an oligopoly.

The US produces 1/3 of its own oil consumption, and imports the rest from
many countries.

There is no opportunity for new
players to enter the field and supply superior or cheaper refined
products.

Not so long as there are 41 insane Senators there isn't. Sad.

Even *if* there were a new and independent refinery built,
the operators would need to rely on their competitors for raw
materials....not a good business model in any industry.

Not all oil companies are drillers and transporters and refiners.

There is a shortage of refined product because world demand has
increased to the point where there is no longer any surplus supply.

Due primarily to the aforementioned insane Senators.

If that attitude disrupts economies or creates hardships for
people who have previously relied on a predictable supply of a product
at a predictable price that's too fricking bad. The oil companies are
in business to make a profit......period.

And the oil campanies are the only businesses in the entire world that er
"in business to make a profit". Oh, wait. No they're not. So your point
is worthless.

Few people are going to buy any
recreational vessel or vehicle that needs to consume enormous
quantities of petroleum products to operate, and who can blame them?
Tough as it is when the costs are $4-5 at the fuel dock, imagine what
would happen if fuel goes to $6-7, or $7-8?

All the more reason to open ANWR.

I think I can see where we're going on a few fronts over the next few
to several years, and I wish the picture were slightly prettier from
here.

All the more reason to open ANWR.

We're entering an era of fewer options for all but the folks in
the very highest income brackets, as well as when a flock of
consequences begin coming home to roost.

All the more reason to open ANWR.


Most of the retooling of refineries is a government requirement. Going
from Winter to Summer Blend. When California had real shortages a
couple of years ago, we could not get fuel from Arizona, that had a
surplus, because it did not meet the Calif. State blend requirements.

All the more reason to storm the statehouse. And then open ANWR :-).


And the refineries were required to add MTBE. The stuff ate up seals
at an extreme rate. One of the reasons there were more refinery fires.

Your tax dollars at ****up. Anyone notice a theme here?

If you are going to comment on a post, at least attribute it to the proper
poster.

Most of the retooling of refineries is a government requirement. Going
from Winter to Summer Blend. When California had real shortages a
couple of years ago, we could not get fuel from Arizona, that had a
surplus, because it did not meet the Calif. State blend requirements.
And the refineries were required to add MTBE. The stuff ate up seals
at an extreme rate. One of the reasons there were more refinery fires.


This is my contribution.

The cost of boating just went up. Gas hits all-time high.
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 08 May 2007 17:27:10 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

Toyota Sequoia SUV: 15/18 mpg
Toyota Sienna van: 19/26 mpg
Chrysler Town & Country van: 19/26 mpg
Ford Crown Victoria: 17/26 mpg
Buick Lucerne: 17/28 mpg

Ford F-25- 7.3 liter diesel - 17/22 mpg


The little Ford Ranger trucklet I just got with a 4.0L V6 gets just about
the same miles per gallon on gas as the 11,500 lb. GVW F-350 Powerstroke
Diesel Crew Cab 4x4 behemoth that it replaced did on diesel.

Eisboch
It's not easy being green.

The cost of boating just went up. Gas hits all-time high.
 

On 8 May 2007 10:45:56 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

The oil companies have a right to earn a profit. We don't have any
right to cheap oil. The frustration is in being so blatantly
manipulated, and a minor amusement is hearing the programmed
apologists offering the freshest round of big oil excuses for the
various refinery emergencies that just happen to occur during the same
strategically beneficial period each year.

OK, so let's assume this is all true and that US petro consumers are
being manipulated to death and taking it in the shorts.

Where else in the world other than Venezuela and a few other big oil
producers can you buy more cheaply? If the oil companies were having
trouble selling their product, prices would drop in a hurry. Is that
supply and demand, or is it manipulation?

The cost of boating just went up. Gas hits all-time high.
 

On Tue, 8 May 2007 19:52:08 -0400, "RCE" wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 08 May 2007 17:27:10 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

Toyota Sequoia SUV: 15/18 mpg
Toyota Sienna van: 19/26 mpg
Chrysler Town & Country van: 19/26 mpg
Ford Crown Victoria: 17/26 mpg
Buick Lucerne: 17/28 mpg

Ford F-25- 7.3 liter diesel - 17/22 mpg

The little Ford Ranger trucklet I just got with a 4.0L V6 gets just about
the same miles per gallon on gas as the 11,500 lb. GVW F-350 Powerstroke
Diesel Crew Cab 4x4 behemoth that it replaced did on diesel.

Amazing ain't it? big honking diesels getting better gas milage that
a baby truck?

It's not easy being green.

Espiecally if you are in Congress.

They just passed an "adjustment" to the rules govening travel. Now if
you are a "friend", you can supply air travel to your friendly
congressman or senator.

Cool huh?

The cost of boating just went up. Gas hits all-time high.
 

On Tue, 08 May 2007 20:10:27 -0500, John H.
wrote:

Someone like Mario Cuomo
would be an example of someone real

BBBAAAWWWWAAAHHHHHHAAAAA!!!!

Please - somebody make him stop - I'm having stomach cramps from
laughing too hard.

BBAAAAWWAAAAAHHHHHHAAAAA!!!!!

The cost of boating just went up. Gas hits all-time high.
 

On Tue, 08 May 2007 20:19:34 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
On 8 May 2007 10:45:56 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

The oil companies have a right to earn a profit. We don't have any
right to cheap oil. The frustration is in being so blatantly
manipulated, and a minor amusement is hearing the programmed
apologists offering the freshest round of big oil excuses for the
various refinery emergencies that just happen to occur during the same
strategically beneficial period each year.

OK, so let's assume this is all true and that US petro consumers are
being manipulated to death and taking it in the shorts.

Where else in the world other than Venezuela and a few other big oil
producers can you buy more cheaply? If the oil companies were having
trouble selling their product, prices would drop in a hurry. Is that
supply and demand, or is it manipulation?

I'm a firm believer in strong federal oversight over certain key
industries on which the welfare of the public depends.

~~ cough - facist - cough ~~

These would include the energy industry and the health care industry.

~~ cough - facist - cough ~~

Oversight would include making sure profits are not excessive.

~~ cough - facist - cough ~~

~~ snerk ~~

The cost of boating just went up. Gas hits all-time high.
 

On Tue, 08 May 2007 20:45:09 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"D.Duck" wrote in message
m...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"D.Duck" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"D.Duck" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute" wrote in
message ...

Meanwhile, asking people to grow up and
take responsibility for their actions is free, and will actually
work,
starting immediately.

So you're going to tell a single mom making $8 an hour that they
need to
trade in their 1983 Electra for a $22,000 Accord? How is that
"free"?

Are you resistant to the idea of voluntary
behavioral changes?

Nothing that involves government is voluntary. Government is by
definition
coercion ("you must") or proscription ("you can't"). That you do
not
understand this most basic concept explains the inanity of most of
your
posts.


I never said anything about telling anyone to trade in their car
immediately. I'm talking about upcoming purchases. And, there is
nothing coercive about a president using his TV time to ask people to
rethink their habits.

Does this qualify?

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/09/27/business/gas.php


It doesn't go far enough, because asking people to pick a different car
is venturing into a decision that verges on religion. I can't think of
any other product which is so tightly bound to people's egos or
crotches than automobiles. Like I said, it would take a real president
with balls to touch the subject. The message would be somewhat
insulting, but sometimes, people need a bucket of cold water dumped on
their heads.

This is from the above link. Sounds like he did ask us to cut back, not
only to buy more efficient vehicles

He added that if Americans could avoid going on "a trip that's not
essential," that would be "helpful."

He also issued a directive for all federal agencies to cut their own
energy use and to encourage employees to use public transportation.


Not far enough. Sorry. I understand I may be insulting one of your icons,
but that's just the way it goes.

He's not one of my icons. I don't agree with many of the things he has
and has not done. But you said he should say something....he already has.


In order for this to be done right, it would require a real president, as I
stated earlier. We do not have that at this moment. Someone like Mario Cuomo
would be an example of someone real. Someone who can function without a
script.


You are so full of crap! You and HK make a great team.

The cost of boating just went up. Gas hits all-time high.
 

On 8 May 2007 16:10:29 -0700, wf3h wrote:


NOYB wrote:
"wf3h" wrote in message

what i love about this is, when ira magaziner and hilary clintion
tried to get us universal health care

To which office was Hillary elected to in 1992?

to the office she was appointed to by the president of the USA. ever
hear of THAT office?

Then what right did she have to make policy that would have destroyed the
healthcare system for 260,000,000 Americans with insurance so that
40,000,000 uninsured could get access?

and when DID you stop beating your wife? incidentally, 300,000,000
americans use energy....that dick cheney feels so deeply belongs only
to the rich.

Speaking of big numbers:

The next time you hear a politician use the word "billion" in a casual
manner, think about whether you want the "politicians" spending your tax
money.


A billion is a difficult number to comprehend, but one advertising agency
did a good job of putting that figure into some perspective in one of its
releases.


A. A billion seconds ago it was 1959.

B. A billion minutes ago Jesus was alive.

C. A billion hours ago our ancestors were living in the Stone Age.

D. A billion days ago no-one walked on the earth on two feet.

E. A billion dollars ago was only 8 hours and 20 minutes, at the rate our
government is spending it.

While this thought is still fresh in our brain, let's take a look at New
Orleans . It's amazing what you can learn with some simple division . . .

Louisiana Senator, Mary Landrieu (D), is presently asking the Congress for
$250 BILLION to rebuild New Orleans. Interesting number, what does it mean?

a. Well, if you are one of 484,674 residents of New Orleans (every man,
woman, child), you each get $516,528.

b. Or, if you have one of the 188,251 homes in New Orleans , your home gets
$1,329,787.

c. Or, if you are a family of four, your family gets $2,066,012.

Washington, D.C. ... HELLO!!! . Are all your calculators broken??

This is too true to be very funny


1. Number of Illegal Aliens in the Country 20,807,645
2. Money Wired to Mexico City since January, 2006 $22,213,001,672.00
3. Cost of Social Security Services for Illegal Aliens since 1996

$397,450,739,563.00
4. Number of Children of Illegal Aliens in Public Schools 3,958,789
5. Cost of Illegal Aliens in K-12 Since 1996: $13, 965,063,431.00
6. Number of Illegal Aliens Incarcerated 332,594
7. Cost of Incarcerations Since 2001 $1,398,127,429.00
8. Number of Illegal Aliens Fugitives 642,799
9. Skilled Jobs Taken by Illegal Aliens 9,872,838


Figures can trick your eyes. Take particular note that items 2,3,5, and 7
reflect BILLION not millions of dollars -- and that item 3 exceeds
one-third of a TRILLION dollars.
Can you imagine how much it will cost taxpayers if we triple the number of
Illegals entering this country!!

The cost of boating just went up. Gas hits all-time high.
 

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
link.net...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
ink.net...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Eisboch" wrote in message
. ..

Do you know what cracks me up about some of the various views
expressed about fuel prices?

It wasn't too many years ago that those with more left leaning
political views were concerned about the high consumption rate of
gasoline in the USA, it's continued supply and it's artificially low
price per gallon compared to the rest of the world. Conservation was
preached, encouraged and some even advocated raising the price of gas
to force further conservation and the use of smaller, fuel efficient
autos in order to reduce demand.


Fast forward to today and it seems that the same people are now
blaming big business greed and politicians lining their pockets for
the natural increase in prices.

Can't win.

Eisboch


The problem with preaching conservation is that the suggested methods
usually involve long term solutions. I wonder what would happen if a
real president with some balls said the following during one of his TV
appearances:

"I can fund research until the cows come home, but we might never find
solutions which make every type of vehicle more efficient. And, at some
point, you have to stop looking for others to find solutions, and
volunteer to do the one thing that's inarguably effective. Next time
you're ready to buy a car, be honest, and buy based on your real needs.
Stop thinking that the only alternative to an SUV is a Ford Focus.
Ignore the crap you're being told in the commercials. Is the only
reason you bought an SUV that you have a family of 5 and a week's worth
of groceries? Wouldn't a van fit your needs equally well? Did you
justify the SUV by convincing yourself they were safer, or that you
wanted to be able to see over all the other trucks? Did you buy a
pickup to haul 3 sheets of plywood just once in the entire time you
owned the vehicle? Those aren't reasons. I'm not saying you have to go
out and buy a Prius or a Mini-Cooper. But, how about reducing your gas
usage by 30%, just by looking at the difference between an SUV and a
mini-van? (points to chart with 5 car models shown below) We can't
create laws to change your buying habits, and there's nothing I can do
about what oil companies charge for fuel. But, you are capable of
having a significant impact on how much oil this country uses.

If you're not buying a car this year, write to your favorite car
manufacturer and tell them what you want to buy when you're ready. If
they continue to pile up SUVs at their dealerships, that's their
problem, not yours.

During WWII, our grandparents planted victory gardens. You can't pick a
better car, in order to help this country? Grow up already."


Toyota Sequoia SUV: 15/18 mpg
Toyota Sienna van: 19/26 mpg
Chrysler Town & Country van: 19/26 mpg
Ford Crown Victoria: 17/26 mpg
Buick Lucerne: 17/28 mpg


What is an SUV? My wife drives a 1996 S-10 Blazer. It is smaller than
the Sienna van.


You know exactly what I mean. Stick with the example shown, since it is
100% valid in this context.


Nope, what is an SUV? The boogey man of the 21st century. Why is it when
an SUV type vehicle is in an accident, it is always reported the SUV
crashed. But if it is a mini car that crashed into the SUV, it will read
SUV involed in accident. The first reporting seems as if the SUV is doing
the driving, not a person.


Look at the list of vehicles I provided. It does not contain a generic SUV.
It contains a specific one which may be representative of others which get
similar mileage. Any normal person should be able to interpret that list and
say "Yeah...mine's like that one", or not.

Any normal person.

The cost of boating just went up. Gas hits all-time high.
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 08 May 2007 20:10:27 -0500, John H.
wrote:

Someone like Mario Cuomo
would be an example of someone real

BBBAAAWWWWAAAHHHHHHAAAAA!!!!

Please - somebody make him stop - I'm having stomach cramps from
laughing too hard.

BBAAAAWWAAAAAHHHHHHAAAAA!!!!!

Cuomo may not be your choice, but I know this: If it were up to you to
choose a president, with no input from anyone else, there is no way you
would've chosen Bush.

The cost of boating just went up. Gas hits all-time high.
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 08 May 2007 17:27:10 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

Toyota Sequoia SUV: 15/18 mpg
Toyota Sienna van: 19/26 mpg
Chrysler Town & Country van: 19/26 mpg
Ford Crown Victoria: 17/26 mpg
Buick Lucerne: 17/28 mpg

Ford F-25- 7.3 liter diesel - 17/22 mpg

Anything higher than a given number is higher than a given number. Your
example fits.

The cost of boating just went up. Gas hits all-time high.
 

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
link.net...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
ink.net...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Eisboch" wrote in message
. ..

Do you know what cracks me up about some of the various views
expressed about fuel prices?

It wasn't too many years ago that those with more left leaning
political views were concerned about the high consumption rate of
gasoline in the USA, it's continued supply and it's artificially low
price per gallon compared to the rest of the world. Conservation was
preached, encouraged and some even advocated raising the price of gas
to force further conservation and the use of smaller, fuel efficient
autos in order to reduce demand.


Fast forward to today and it seems that the same people are now
blaming big business greed and politicians lining their pockets for
the natural increase in prices.

Can't win.

Eisboch


The problem with preaching conservation is that the suggested methods
usually involve long term solutions. I wonder what would happen if a
real president with some balls said the following during one of his TV
appearances:

"I can fund research until the cows come home, but we might never find
solutions which make every type of vehicle more efficient. And, at
some point, you have to stop looking for others to find solutions, and
volunteer to do the one thing that's inarguably effective. Next time
you're ready to buy a car, be honest, and buy based on your real
needs. Stop thinking that the only alternative to an SUV is a Ford
Focus. Ignore the crap you're being told in the commercials. Is the
only reason you bought an SUV that you have a family of 5 and a week's
worth of groceries? Wouldn't a van fit your needs equally well? Did
you justify the SUV by convincing yourself they were safer, or that
you wanted to be able to see over all the other trucks? Did you buy a
pickup to haul 3 sheets of plywood just once in the entire time you
owned the vehicle? Those aren't reasons. I'm not saying you have to go
out and buy a Prius or a Mini-Cooper. But, how about reducing your gas
usage by 30%, just by looking at the difference between an SUV and a
mini-van? (points to chart with 5 car models shown below) We can't
create laws to change your buying habits, and there's nothing I can do
about what oil companies charge for fuel. But, you are capable of
having a significant impact on how much oil this country uses.

If you're not buying a car this year, write to your favorite car
manufacturer and tell them what you want to buy when you're ready. If
they continue to pile up SUVs at their dealerships, that's their
problem, not yours.

During WWII, our grandparents planted victory gardens. You can't pick
a better car, in order to help this country? Grow up already."


Toyota Sequoia SUV: 15/18 mpg
Toyota Sienna van: 19/26 mpg
Chrysler Town & Country van: 19/26 mpg
Ford Crown Victoria: 17/26 mpg
Buick Lucerne: 17/28 mpg


What is an SUV? My wife drives a 1996 S-10 Blazer. It is smaller than
the Sienna van.


You know exactly what I mean. Stick with the example shown, since it is
100% valid in this context.


Nope, what is an SUV? The boogey man of the 21st century. Why is it
when an SUV type vehicle is in an accident, it is always reported the SUV
crashed. But if it is a mini car that crashed into the SUV, it will read
SUV involed in accident. The first reporting seems as if the SUV is
doing the driving, not a person.


Look at the list of vehicles I provided. It does not contain a generic
SUV. It contains a specific one which may be representative of others
which get similar mileage. Any normal person should be able to interpret
that list and say "Yeah...mine's like that one", or not.

Any normal person.


I was referring to your "SUV".

This one:
Is the only
reason you bought an SUV that you have a family of 5 and a week's worth
of groceries? Wouldn't a van fit your needs equally well? Did you
justify the SUV by convincing yourself they were safer, or that you
wanted to be able to see over all the other trucks?

The cost of boating just went up. Gas hits all-time high.
 

On Wed, 09 May 2007 01:49:10 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 08 May 2007 20:10:27 -0500, John H.
wrote:

Someone like Mario Cuomo
would be an example of someone real

BBBAAAWWWWAAAHHHHHHAAAAA!!!!

Please - somebody make him stop - I'm having stomach cramps from
laughing too hard.

BBAAAAWWAAAAAHHHHHHAAAAA!!!!!

Cuomo may not be your choice, but I know this: If it were up to you to
choose a president, with no input from anyone else, there is no way you
would've chosen Bush.

Oh - you "know" that?

Tell me - know do you "know" that?

Please - enlighten me.

The cost of boating just went up. Gas hits all-time high.
 

On Wed, 09 May 2007 01:49:59 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 08 May 2007 17:27:10 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

Toyota Sequoia SUV: 15/18 mpg
Toyota Sienna van: 19/26 mpg
Chrysler Town & Country van: 19/26 mpg
Ford Crown Victoria: 17/26 mpg
Buick Lucerne: 17/28 mpg

Ford F-25- 7.3 liter diesel - 17/22 mpg

Anything higher than a given number is higher than a given number. Your
example fits.

Wha?