a real boat
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Calif Bill wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Charlie Morgan wrote:
On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:48:27 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing

wrote:

On 30 Apr 2007 08:24:45 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

Could a wooden boat, or any wooden structure, survive for several
thousand years?
How old is the shroud of Turin? It's made of linen.

CWM

Target had them on sale last weekend. Genuine shrouds of Turin.

And you accuse others of being anti-Semitic. I guess knocking other
religions is OK in your tortured world.


The shroud of Turin is a religion?

Religious object. Your off your game these days.

a real boat
 

Calif Bill wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Calif Bill wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Charlie Morgan wrote:
On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:48:27 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing

wrote:

On 30 Apr 2007 08:24:45 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

Could a wooden boat, or any wooden structure, survive for several
thousand years?
How old is the shroud of Turin? It's made of linen.

CWM
Target had them on sale last weekend. Genuine shrouds of Turin.
And you accuse others of being anti-Semitic. I guess knocking other
religions is OK in your tortured world.

The shroud of Turin is a religion?

Religious object. Your off your game these days.





The church used to sell off "ancient" religious objects by the boatload
during medieval times. Entire cottage industries were established to
manufacture these objects.

a real boat
 

On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 21:28:03 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

The church used to sell off "ancient" religious objects by the boatload
during medieval times. Entire cottage industries were established to
manufacture these objects.

Kind of like Carbon Credit indulgences when you think about it. :)

a real boat
 

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 21:28:03 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

The church used to sell off "ancient" religious objects by the boatload
during medieval times. Entire cottage industries were established to
manufacture these objects.

Kind of like Carbon Credit indulgences when you think about it. :)

Yep. I think religious faith is a fine thing if it leads you to help
others, but I have very little use for organized religion and its
trappings, craziness and b.s.

a real boat
 

On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 23:16:15 +0000, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


There's a guy here in town who specialises in Chris Crafts and has done
several from Lake Superior.

It is amazing that they've kept that well all these years.

Very cold water. You probably already know this, but there is a whole
industry recovering old growth logs retrieved from the bottom of Lake
Superior, very valuable wood.

http://www.american.edu/TED/sunkwood.htm

a real boat
 

On Tue, 01 May 2007 11:06:03 -0000, thunder
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 23:16:15 +0000, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


There's a guy here in town who specialises in Chris Crafts and has done
several from Lake Superior.

It is amazing that they've kept that well all these years.

Very cold water. You probably already know this, but there is a whole
industry recovering old growth logs retrieved from the bottom of Lake
Superior, very valuable wood.

http://www.american.edu/TED/sunkwood.htm

Not only do I know it, but the desk that my hands are currently
resting on while I type this is made of cherry from those logs.

It's veneer over pine, but still. :)

a real boat
 

On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 21:52:27 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 21:28:03 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

The church used to sell off "ancient" religious objects by the boatload
during medieval times. Entire cottage industries were established to
manufacture these objects.

Kind of like Carbon Credit indulgences when you think about it. :)

Yep. I think religious faith is a fine thing if it leads you to help
others, but I have very little use for organized religion and its
trappings, craziness and b.s.

Woooosshhh!!

a real boat
 

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
It's veneer over pine, but still. :)

And you call me "cheap"?

a real boat
 

On 1 May 2007 13:22:07 -0700, Tim wrote:


Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
It's veneer over pine, but still. :)

And you call me "cheap"?

Trust me - it weren't not cheap. :)

a real boat
 

On Apr 30, 6:03�pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On 30 Apr 2007 12:32:23 -0700, Tim wrote:







Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:

Anyone who has ever read any of the "industry" mags know that the
magazines and mfg'ers have a symbiotic relationship.

You know, you could be right about that Reggie.

That;s (THAT'S) one reason I quit subscribing to Cycle World mag. *Not only was
the rag 3/4 advertisments that I was being forst (FORCED) to buy, and the
sadvertisers (ADVERTISERS) were being forsed (FORCED) to pay for, But (but)
it seemed to me that every other edition was some review for Ducatti (DUCATI)
motorcycles. *My Lands! *How many reviews could they do????

I got tired of it. *BTW, Ducatti? (Ducati) (i(I)talian) *CW mag is also owned by
Filapacchi (i(I)talian) Publishing....

Filapacchi is owned by Lagardere Media of France.



When did Filapacchi sell out to Lagardere?

AARRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

http://www.deanesmay.com/files/deane...keyboard.1.jpg

a real boat
 

On 2 May 2007 04:46:47 -0700, Tim wrote:

When did Filapacchi sell out to Lagardere?

Years ago.

Hey, gotta question for you.

What's it like living three days in the past? :)

a real boat
 

On May 2, 6:57�am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On 2 May 2007 04:46:47 -0700, Tim wrote:

When did Filapacchi sell out to Lagardere?

Years ago.

Hey, gotta question for you.

What's it like living three days in the past? *:)

Well, years ago is when I dumped CW mag.

Living in the past? Ah. by Jethro Tull:

http://www.lyricsfreak.com/j/jethro+..._20071060.html


Actually living in the past isn't bad. you get to observe others idiot
decisions today, you make sure you don't make them today, er,
tomorrow, uh...yesterday.

it works pretty good.

a real boat
 

On Apr 29, 9:14 pm, thunder wrote:
snip
There has been some speculation that theBlack Seadeluge theory was the
cause of Noah's flood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_theory

thunder:
Yes, but the original hypothesis was quickly falsified,
and one of its main proponents (Bill Ryan) has
replaced it with a revised version that has
nothing special happening to Black Sea level
at the time of the supposed deluge in the original version.

William B.F. Ryan, Candace O. Major, Gilles Lericolais,
and Steven L. Goldstein
2003
CATASTROPHIC FLOODING OF THE BLACK SEA
Annual Review of Earth and Planetary Sciences
Vol. 31: 525-554 (Volume publication date May 2003)
(doi:10.1146/annurev.earth.31.100901.141249)

In there you'll find this (note that the dates given are
apparently uncalibrated radiocarbon years, the
"7.14 ky BP" having been calibrated to
about 7550 years ago elsewhere):

"
Criticisms of Catastrophic Flooding
The hypothesis of a rapid terminal flooding of the Black Sea
has been criticized
(Aksu et al. 2002a, b, G?r?r et al. 2001).
The initial objection (G?r?r et al. 2001) noted the presence
of 8.1-ky BP peat and 7.2-ky BP wood associated with
brackish fauna (Dreissena polymorpha and Monodacna caspia)
in cores from the Sakarya River and adjacent shelf.
Deposits with these components at a depth of -22 m
conflicted with a lake d[r]owned at 7.14 ky BP as originally
proposed.
However, a recognition from the strontium isotopes that
the salinization was initiated earlier at 8.4 ky BP
and that
the 7.14 ky BP [event] only reflected a threshold in salinity
resolves the apparent conflict.
"
So, Ryan now thinks that their only evidence of a
catastrophic flood was really evidence that the water
got saltier, several dozens of metres below
a stable surface level.

Here's a diagram from elsewhere showing the situation,
in which (at long last)
enough salty water had infiltrated
along the floor of the Bosphorus
down to the bottom of the Black Sea that
the top of the lower salty layer
rose up to the Continental shelf,
where marine mollusks could finally
colonise the sea bed after about 7600 years ago:

http://biblicalgeology.net/images/st...cles/shelf-sec...

"
Figure 2. According to the international research team,
the observed change from freshwater mollusc to marine mollusc
on the Black Sea shelf was not due to a sudden filling with
Mediterranean water. Rather, the level of the Black Sea
remained constant and the change was because the interface
between the fresh surface water and the salty deep water
rose above shelf level.
"
A few refutational abstracts are quoted here, by
one who would have liked to have seen some proof of
a real Noachian flood event:

http://home.entouch.net/dmd/bseaflod.htm

You might also look at this thread in
sci.archaeology :
Controversy over the great flood hypotheses in the Black Sea in light
of geological, paleontological, and archaeological evidence

Here's a link to it that might work:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.a...rm/thread/d736...

OR

http://tinyurl.com/28ky76

There's a big book on the Black Sea that has recently
been published, edited by Valentina Yanko-Hombach
and others, but it does not discuss Ryan's and Pitman's
first version of a flood hypothesis, except to dismiss it.

No serious professional person is seriously discussing
the original Black Sea Floode (Mk. I) hypothesis anymore.
Is that enough, or would you like more info?

- Daryl Krupa

a real boat
 

On May 2, 6:45 pm, Agent Jones wrote:
On Apr 29, 9:14 pm, thunder wrote:
snip

There has been some speculation that theBlack Seadeluge theory was the
cause of Noah's flood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_theory

thunder:
Yes, but the original hypothesis was quickly falsified,
and one of its main proponents (Bill Ryan) has
replaced it with a revised version that has
nothing special happening to Black Sea level
at the time of the supposed deluge in the original version.

William B.F. Ryan, Candace O. Major, Gilles Lericolais,
and Steven L. Goldstein
2003
CATASTROPHIC FLOODING OF THE BLACK SEA
Annual Review of Earth and Planetary Sciences
Vol. 31: 525-554 (Volume publication date May 2003)
(doi:10.1146/annurev.earth.31.100901.141249)

In there you'll find this (note that the dates given are
apparently uncalibrated radiocarbon years, the
"7.14 ky BP" having been calibrated to
about 7550 years ago elsewhere):

"
Criticisms of Catastrophic Flooding
The hypothesis of a rapid terminal flooding of the Black Sea
has been criticized
(Aksu et al. 2002a, b, G?r?r et al. 2001).
The initial objection (G?r?r et al. 2001) noted the presence
of 8.1-ky BP peat and 7.2-ky BP wood associated with
brackish fauna (Dreissena polymorpha and Monodacna caspia)
in cores from the Sakarya River and adjacent shelf.
Deposits with these components at a depth of -22 m
conflicted with a lake d[r]owned at 7.14 ky BP as originally
proposed.
However, a recognition from the strontium isotopes that
the salinization was initiated earlier at 8.4 ky BP
and that
the 7.14 ky BP [event] only reflected a threshold in salinity
resolves the apparent conflict.
"
So, Ryan now thinks that their only evidence of a
catastrophic flood was really evidence that the water
got saltier, several dozens of metres below
a stable surface level.

Here's a diagram from elsewhere showing the situation,
in which (at long last)
enough salty water had infiltrated
along the floor of the Bosphorus
down to the bottom of the Black Sea that
the top of the lower salty layer
rose up to the Continental shelf,
where marine mollusks could finally
colonise the sea bed after about 7600 years ago:

http://biblicalgeology.net/images/st...cles/shelf-sec...

"
Figure 2. According to the international research team,
the observed change from freshwater mollusc to marine mollusc
on the Black Sea shelf was not due to a sudden filling with
Mediterranean water. Rather, the level of the Black Sea
remained constant and the change was because the interface
between the fresh surface water and the salty deep water
rose above shelf level.
"
A few refutational abstracts are quoted here, by
one who would have liked to have seen some proof of
a real Noachian flood event:

http://home.entouch.net/dmd/bseaflod.htm

You might also look at this thread in
sci.archaeology :
Controversy over the great flood hypotheses in the Black Sea in light
of geological, paleontological, and archaeological evidence

Here's a link to it that might work:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.a...rm/thread/d736...

OR

http://tinyurl.com/28ky76

There's a big book on the Black Sea that has recently
been published, edited by Valentina Yanko-Hombach
and others, but it does not discuss Ryan's and Pitman's
first version of a flood hypothesis, except to dismiss it.

No serious professional person is seriously discussing
the original Black Sea Floode (Mk. I) hypothesis anymore.
Is that enough, or would you like more info?

- Daryl Krupa

Wow, neat spider, did you write it yourself?

a real boat
 

On May 2, 4:53?pm, wrote:

Wow, neat spider, did you write it yourself?

I'm sorry; I'm not "up" on the "lingo" you kids use "nowadays"
Do you think you might put that into words that an old fart might
understand?