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Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
Hi,
Finally got that old hose off with a hacksaw and a fair amount of flame. Problem is, I STILL haven't found the blockage! I usually find that if the blockage is in the thruhull, opening the valve with the hose off gives a blast of reverse water that clears it. This time, NOTHING! not a trickle. Obviously, I can't remove the thruhull without hauling the boat, so I'm looking for alternatives. One thought - could the handle on the thruhull be broken and the valve is just not opening? Seems to be doing something... Or, I can get my Lady the semi-fish to dive under and poke at it from the outside with a stick, making sure she doesn't leave the stick in. If that doesn't work, can I use the 1" thruhull currently used for the head sink drain? Either T it, or live without a sink in the head until I haul the boat. Comments? Suggestions? Lloyd Sumpter "Far Cove" Catalina 36 - c/w holding tank where water goes in, but doesn't go out... |
Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
You should be able to stick a coathanger or something through the open
thru-hull to knock out whatever's blocking it. I'm surprised it's so totally "waterproof". Maybe you have a plastic bag stuck on the outside? -- Keith __ A modest man is usually admired; if people ever hear of him. "Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message ... Hi, Finally got that old hose off with a hacksaw and a fair amount of flame. Problem is, I STILL haven't found the blockage! I usually find that if the blockage is in the thruhull, opening the valve with the hose off gives a blast of reverse water that clears it. This time, NOTHING! not a trickle. Obviously, I can't remove the thruhull without hauling the boat, so I'm looking for alternatives. One thought - could the handle on the thruhull be broken and the valve is just not opening? Seems to be doing something... Or, I can get my Lady the semi-fish to dive under and poke at it from the outside with a stick, making sure she doesn't leave the stick in. If that doesn't work, can I use the 1" thruhull currently used for the head sink drain? Either T it, or live without a sink in the head until I haul the boat. Comments? Suggestions? Lloyd Sumpter "Far Cove" Catalina 36 - c/w holding tank where water goes in, but doesn't go out... |
Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 02:06:29 -0500, "Keith"
wrote: You should be able to stick a coathanger or something through the open thru-hull to knock out whatever's blocking it. I'm surprised it's so totally "waterproof". Maybe you have a plastic bag stuck on the outside? ======================== Probably just barnacles and other marine growth. They can build an amazingly efficient "plug" given enough time. I agree with the advice to snake something through from the inside. |
Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
send her down there with a plunger
|
Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
Take a dive and see if your underwater thru hull is covered with critters.
chances are that you'll be able to clean it from out side. In case you need to remove the valve from the thru hull pound in a bung to keep the water from coming in. While your down there, check to see if your hull needs to be scraped. Never take the divers word that they did a thorough cleaning with out checking their work. Jack "Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message ... Hi, Finally got that old hose off with a hacksaw and a fair amount of flame. Problem is, I STILL haven't found the blockage! I usually find that if the blockage is in the thruhull, opening the valve with the hose off gives a blast of reverse water that clears it. This time, NOTHING! not a trickle. Obviously, I can't remove the thruhull without hauling the boat, so I'm looking for alternatives. One thought - could the handle on the thruhull be broken and the valve is just not opening? Seems to be doing something... Or, I can get my Lady the semi-fish to dive under and poke at it from the outside with a stick, making sure she doesn't leave the stick in. If that doesn't work, can I use the 1" thruhull currently used for the head sink drain? Either T it, or live without a sink in the head until I haul the boat. Comments? Suggestions? Lloyd Sumpter "Far Cove" Catalina 36 - c/w holding tank where water goes in, but doesn't go out... |
Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
Subject: Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
From: "Lloyd Sumpter" Hi, Finally got that old hose off with a hacksaw and a fair amount of flame. Problem is, I STILL haven't found the blockage! I usually find that if the blockage is in the thruhull, opening the valve with the hose off gives a blast of reverse water that clears it. This time, NOTHING! not a trickle. Obviously, I can't remove the thruhull without hauling the boat, so I'm looking for alternatives. One thought - could the handle on the thruhull be broken and the valve is just not opening? Possible, but doubtful. Seems to be doing something... Or, I can get my Lady the semi-fish to dive under and poke at it from the outside with a stick, I guess that would be up to her. But why not try poking the stick through from the inside? making sure she doesn't leave the stick in. Good idea. If that doesn't work, can I use the 1" thruhull currently used for the head sink drain? Either T it, or live without a sink in the head until I haul the boat. Sorry, lost track of what the plugged thurhull is for. If it's for your head I would not T it. Capt. Bill |
Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 07:25:42 +0000, Wayne. wrote:
On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 02:06:29 -0500, "Keith" wrote: You should be able to stick a coathanger or something through the open thru-hull to knock out whatever's blocking it. I'm surprised it's so totally "waterproof". Maybe you have a plastic bag stuck on the outside? ======================== Probably just barnacles and other marine growth. They can build an amazingly efficient "plug" given enough time. I agree with the advice to snake something through from the inside. Thanks! It happened rather suddenly, so I don't think it's barny's at least not initially (might be that there's marine growth in the clog, making it more waterproof) (Go ahead, say it: I'm a big sh*t! :) ) Can't really get at it from the inside: There is the thruhull itself, the valve, an elbow and a hosebarb, all "welded" together with 20 years of corrosion (all bronze). 1/2" above the elbow is a fibreglass seat, and the whole arrangement is accessed via a 8" x 8" port on the side. As I said in another thread, I suspect Catalina put in this fitting and hose BEFORE glassing in the seat! I've tried jamming a bent coathanger in from the inside with no success. Lloyd |
Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 22:48:45 +0000, Lloyd Sumpter wrote:
Hi, Finally got that old hose off with a hacksaw and a fair amount of flame. Problem is, I STILL haven't found the blockage! I usually find that if the blockage is in the thruhull, opening the valve with the hose off gives a blast of reverse water that clears it. This time, NOTHING! not a trickle. Update: I got my Lady to dive in and bang away at it from the outside (no sign of barnys or other growth). She confirmed what I suspected: she hit something solid, as I did when I was poking with a wire from the inside. The valve is stuck closed, and the lever is broken. There's no way I'm messing with this while it's in the water (I can just see me reefing on a 2-ft pipewrench to try to get the fitting free and cracking the thruhull itself...). So, I "closed" the valve and capped the fitting, then used the sink thruhull (3/4") for the holding tank outlet. Not too big a stretch: the macerator outlet is 1". I converted the outlet hose from 1 1/2" to 1" as well, to reduce the backwash when the pump stops. I figure if it has to go through a foot of 1" hose, why not 10 ft? I'll make do with the smaller thruhull until I haul the boat, then "get serious" with the bigger one. Lloyd Sumpter "Far Cove" Catalina 36: now with (working!) 35 gal holding tank! |
Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
Finally got that old hose off with a hacksaw and a fair amount of
flame. Problem is, I STILL haven't found the blockage! I usually find that if the blockage is in the thruhull, opening the valve with the hose off gives a blast of reverse water that clears it. This time, NOTHING! not a trickle. Update: I got my Lady to dive in and bang away at it from the outside (no sign of barnys or other growth). She confirmed what I suspected: she hit something solid, as I did when I was poking with a wire from the inside. The valve is stuck closed, and the lever is broken. Do you have someplace local that will let you do a haul & hold? If you have all the parts and supplies in hand (including a new thruhull) you should be able to fix it in the slings. Buy every part you can think of -- heck buy two -- and return what you don't use. I would suggest not putting off a haul -- if the seacock is as knackered as you describe, what else is about to let go? dave |
Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
Well Lloyd since you've made your decision. Then replace every thru hull
when you pull your boat. 20 years is a long time for bronze. I would suspect that after 20 years the clog you are talking about caused by galvanic action. Jack "Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message ... On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 22:48:45 +0000, Lloyd Sumpter wrote: Hi, Finally got that old hose off with a hacksaw and a fair amount of flame. Problem is, I STILL haven't found the blockage! I usually find that if the blockage is in the thruhull, opening the valve with the hose off gives a blast of reverse water that clears it. This time, NOTHING! not a trickle. Update: I got my Lady to dive in and bang away at it from the outside (no sign of barnys or other growth). She confirmed what I suspected: she hit something solid, as I did when I was poking with a wire from the inside. The valve is stuck closed, and the lever is broken. There's no way I'm messing with this while it's in the water (I can just see me reefing on a 2-ft pipewrench to try to get the fitting free and cracking the thruhull itself...). So, I "closed" the valve and capped the fitting, then used the sink thruhull (3/4") for the holding tank outlet. Not too big a stretch: the macerator outlet is 1". I converted the outlet hose from 1 1/2" to 1" as well, to reduce the backwash when the pump stops. I figure if it has to go through a foot of 1" hose, why not 10 ft? I'll make do with the smaller thruhull until I haul the boat, then "get serious" with the bigger one. Lloyd Sumpter "Far Cove" Catalina 36: now with (working!) 35 gal holding tank! |
Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
Yea, if that's the case, replace the whole thing. They don't even make
replacement parts for those any more... they're old Groco seacocks. I replaced three on my boat, and sold the old ones just like that for spare parts! A neat solution for new fabrications: I saw one where the guy did this for easy cleaning from the inside. Attached to the seacock was a piece of bronze pipe with a "T", and another piece of pipe with a cap. The seawater took a right turn at the "T", and if he needed to clean the thru-hull, he just removed the cap and ran a wire or whatever straight down through the seacock and thru-hull from the inside. Not for the faint of heart or those with crummy bilge pumps, but very efficient. -- Keith __ Shotgun wedding: A case of wife or death. "Charlie J" wrote in message ... Loyd- If serious sea growth is not the answer, here is a more exotic explanation for your problem: Does your malfunctioning seacock have a thumb screw on the opposite side from the handle? If so, then this type of seacock has a rubber coated bronze cylinder rotating within the body. The cylinder has a transverse hole in it. When you shut the seacock, the hole is aligned at 90 degrees to the thru hull and the system. You secure the seacock and seal the rubber to the seacock body by tightening the thumbscrew. When you open the seacock, you first loosen the thumbscrew to release the seal between the rotating cylinder and the seacock body and then turn the handle 90 degrees to align the transverse hole with the thru hull and the system. If you feel some resistance when you are operating the seacock, the bond between the bronze cylinder and the rubber sheath has failed and you will be rotating the metal cylinder within its rubber sheath but you will not be "operating" the valve from open to shut, shut to open. If you do not feel any resistance, than the handle may have come detached from the bronze cylinder. Hope this helps and good luck. Charlie Johnson JTB Marine Service 200 Second Avenue South #159 St. Petersburg, FL 33701 727.560.9065 |
Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
....and don't blindly trust a surveyor! Kick and poke at everything while
it's still someone else's boat. -- Keith __ "There is more to life than increasing its speed." Mohandas K. Gandhi "Gene Kearns" wrote in message ... On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 22:48:45 -0700, "Lloyd Sumpter" wrote: Hi, Finally got that old hose off with a hacksaw and a fair amount of flame. Problem is, I STILL haven't found the blockage! I usually find that if the blockage is in the thruhull, opening the valve with the hose off gives a blast of reverse water that clears it. This time, NOTHING! not a trickle. Obviously, I can't remove the thruhull without hauling the boat, so I'm looking for alternatives. One thought - could the handle on the thruhull be broken and the valve is just not opening? Seems to be doing something... Or, I can get my Lady the semi-fish to dive under and poke at it from the outside with a stick, making sure she doesn't leave the stick in. If that doesn't work, can I use the 1" thruhull currently used for the head sink drain? Either T it, or live without a sink in the head until I haul the boat. Comments? Suggestions? Lloyd Sumpter "Far Cove" Catalina 36 - c/w holding tank where water goes in, but doesn't go out... Not sure this applies, but this just happened in the marina. New owners bought a trawler after getting a clean bill of health from the surveyor. Minor maintenance issue arose and the owner closed the seacock..... well, not exactly..... it broke off in his hand! Panic city..... plugging.... quick trip to an emergency haul out. All through hulls and sea cocks were badly corroded and had to be replaced. Moral: Walk softly and don't use such a big stick..... -- Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC. http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage http://www.southharbourvillage.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC is located. http://www.southharbourvillage.com/autoupdater.htm Real Time Pictures at My Marina http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide |
Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 04:09:46 +0000, Peggie Hall wrote:
Lloyd Sumpter wrote: There's no way I'm messing with this while it's in the water (I can just see me reefing on a 2-ft pipewrench to try to get the fitting free and cracking the thruhull itself...). So, I "closed" the valve and capped the fitting, then used the sink thruhull (3/4") for the holding tank outlet. Not too big a stretch: the macerator outlet is 1". I converted the outlet hose from 1 1/2" to 1" as well, to reduce the backwash when the pump stops. I figure if it has to go through a foot of 1" hose, why not 10 ft? I'll make do with the smaller thruhull until I haul the boat, then "get serious" with the bigger one. Since you've already done it, the only thing left for me to say is, Oy vey! Peggie OK, so it's not up to "Peggy Standard" ;) But what do you think of using 1" hose for the outlet, rather than 1" for a foot or so, an adapter, and 1.5" the rest of the way? Seems cleaner, less backwash, and as I said, the output as to go through SOME 1" hose anyway... Lloyd |
Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
OK, so it's not up to "Peggy Standard" ;)
It's not up to any standard, Lloyd. Would you dump a portapotty down your sink? 'Cuz that's essentially what you're doing by dumping your holding tank through the sink drain. ANY problem or backup, and you're gonna have a sink full of sewage. Even without any problems, you're gonna have e-coli in the same sink drain that you use to wash dishes, your face, brush your teeth, etc...and bacteria migrate...mulitply while the boat sits...anything you set in the sink can pick it up. How you ran the plumbing is irrelevant. Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327 http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html |
Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 17:06:53 +0000, Peggie Hall wrote:
OK, so it's not up to "Peggy Standard" ;) It's not up to any standard, Lloyd. Would you dump a portapotty down your sink? 'Cuz that's essentially what you're doing by dumping your holding tank through the sink drain. ANY problem or backup, and you're gonna have a sink full of sewage. Sorry, again a misunderstanding. I REMOVED the sink connection and replaced it with the holding tank outflow. No T. The sink now drains into the bilge (we don't use it much anyway) Lloyd |
Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
Lloyd Sumpter wrote:
Sorry, again a misunderstanding. I REMOVED the sink connection and replaced it with the holding tank outflow. No T. Oh...that's a little different! You had me worried! Reducing the macerator output hose by 25% (from 1" to 3/4") could cause some backup from the thru-hull to the macerator...there's usually a reason why equipment mfrs spec output size and it has to do with whether the pump is pushing it through a hose faster than the hose size will let it flow. The sink now drains into the bilge (we don't use it much anyway) Yccch...that oughta keep your boat smelling great. :( In my experience, it's always cheaper and easier in the long run to do anything right the first time than it is to jury rig it and then go back and do it over--or worse yet, have to keep on jury rigging and working around the jury rig to keep it working. Sooner or later you're gonna have to haul the boat--even if only for a short haul--to service/replace all the thru-hulls...why not just do it all now and get it over with? Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327 http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html |
Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
Peggie, Not to mention Typhoid, Cholera, Viral Hepatitis and a range of
stomach and intestinal diseases. All this and more, from a sink of sewage can be theirs. Many times while cruising I have come across stupid people that live aboard their boats in marinas. Instead of paying the pump out fee. These morons use a bucket for their excrement. Every day they dump it in a community toilets and then use community sinks to wash out their buckets. Since I have witnessed this many times. I am surprised that no one has died from their blatant stupidity. This is the main reason I installed a 160 lph water maker on our boat. So we wouldn't have to use the local marinas community facilities. Peggie, Something to think about. Maybe a new chapter for your book. Jack "Peggie Hall" wrote in message ... OK, so it's not up to "Peggy Standard" ;) It's not up to any standard, Lloyd. Would you dump a portapotty down your sink? 'Cuz that's essentially what you're doing by dumping your holding tank through the sink drain. ANY problem or backup, and you're gonna have a sink full of sewage. Even without any problems, you're gonna have e-coli in the same sink drain that you use to wash dishes, your face, brush your teeth, etc...and bacteria migrate...mulitply while the boat sits...anything you set in the sink can pick it up. How you ran the plumbing is irrelevant. Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327 http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html |
Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
Jack Rye wrote:
Peggie, Not to mention Typhoid, Cholera, Viral Hepatitis and a range of stomach and intestinal diseases. All this and more, from a sink of sewage can be theirs. In all fairness,I doubt that there are many carriers of typhoid, cholera and hepatitis in Lloyd's family...or among the "weekend warrior" recreational boating population as a whole. But still... Many times while cruising I have come across stupid people that live aboard their boats in marinas. Instead of paying the pump out fee. These morons use a bucket for their excrement. Every day they dump it in a community toilets and then use community sinks to wash out their buckets. Since I have witnessed this many times. I am surprised that no one has died from their blatant stupidity. Exposure to low levels of anything is how immune systems are developed. And, enough additional water prob'ly goes down the sinks in any public facility to flush it out. But still, only really classless slobs would wash out the buckets in the sinks instead using a hose outside. Ours has become a "germ" obsessed society...with a lot of encouragement to do so from the mfrs of "antibacterial" products. Somewhere between cleaning products that claim to sanitize the kitchen floor and waste buckets in the sink is a healthy balance. Peggie, Something to think about. Maybe a new chapter for your book. Maybe...but not this week. :) Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327 http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html |
Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
You haven't met his 'female friends' from the Gastown district. Once you get
past the leather & vinyl it gets ugly. Peggie Hall wrote in message ... In all fairness,I doubt that there are many carriers of typhoid, cholera and hepatitis in Lloyd's family...or among the "weekend warrior" recreational boating population as a whole. But still... |
Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
The pressure will not be dissipated in the line to the thru hull (ok, yes
there will be some pressure drop, but it's inconsequential), and the back pressure will increase with the additional hose length from the macerator. I think this is one of those scenarios where someone asks for advice but has made up their mind as to what they what to do and no amount of logic will dissuade them from straying from the course they have set. Gonna be one Hell of a mess.... "Peggie Hall" wrote in message ... bomar wrote: Peggie- Check your math.... Assuming true 1" and ¾" id, this is a reduction of 44% not 25% 3.14 (.5)² = .785 3.14 (.375)² = .4415 .4415 / .785 = .5625 ¾" hose is 56% of 1" hose, so the ¾" hose is 44% smaller, not 25% Thanks...math was never my strongest subject.:) I was only referring to the diameter. A 44% reduction in hose volume makes things even more interesting. Where he put the macerator will have a lot to do with it. So how 'bout applying a little more of your math skills. He said the hose is 10' long. The flow through a Jabsco macerator is 12 gal/minute. If he put it close to the tank--say within a foot, will the distance to the thru-hull permit enough dissipation in pressure to prevent backpressure? If he put the macerator at the other end--near the the thru-hull, it'll prob'ly be a moot point because the macerator will take so long to prime that the impeller will prob'ly fry before it can (Jabsco specs call for 4' max if the impeller is dry)....but assuming that it doesn't, what's likely to happen? I wonder why the the phrase "trying to stuff 12 lbs of $#!* into a 10 lb bag" has suddenly started running through my head.... :) Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html |
Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
bomar wrote:
I think this is one of those scenarios where someone asks for advice but has made up their mind as to what they what to do and no amount of logic will dissuade them from straying from the course they have set. Gonna be one Hell of a mess.... I couldn't add anything to that if I spent a whole day trying to think of something. :) Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327 http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html |
Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
"Peggie Hall" wrote in message ... Jack Rye wrote: Peggie, Not to mention Typhoid, Cholera, Viral Hepatitis and a range of stomach and intestinal diseases. All this and more, from a sink of sewage can be theirs. In all fairness,I doubt that there are many carriers of typhoid, cholera and hepatitis in Lloyd's family...or among the "weekend warrior" recreational boating population as a whole. But still... You would be surprised about how many folks are carrying Hepatitis around. That is why immunization against it is now required for school children, at least in Minnesota. (snip) Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327 http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html |
Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
This reminds me of a local TV production by a former co-worker ...'Trailer
Park Boys' They are always talking about '**** storms', '**** hitting the fan' etc etc. Peggie Hall wrote in message ... bomar wrote: I think this is one of those scenarios where someone asks for advice but has made up their mind as to what they what to do and no amount of logic will dissuade them from straying from the course they have set. Gonna be one Hell of a mess.... I couldn't add anything to that if I spent a whole day trying to think of something. :) Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327 http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html |
Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 18:41:27 +0000, Peggie Hall wrote:
Lloyd Sumpter wrote: Sorry, again a misunderstanding. I REMOVED the sink connection and replaced it with the holding tank outflow. No T. Oh...that's a little different! You had me worried! Reducing the macerator output hose by 25% (from 1" to 3/4") could cause some backup from the thru-hull to the macerator...there's usually a reason why equipment mfrs spec output size and it has to do with whether the pump is pushing it through a hose faster than the hose size will let it flow. The sink now drains into the bilge (we don't use it much anyway) Yccch...that oughta keep your boat smelling great. :( In my experience, it's always cheaper and easier in the long run to do anything right the first time than it is to jury rig it and then go back and do it over--or worse yet, have to keep on jury rigging and working around the jury rig to keep it working. Sooner or later you're gonna have to haul the boat--even if only for a short haul--to service/replace all the thru-hulls...why not just do it all now and get it over with? ....because "now" is less than 1 wk from a 2-wk sailing trip that needs a holding tank. I'll be hauling the boat out for an extended period this winter to replace the engine, so why not do it then? Remember, I said I'll have to cut out the seat to get at this thruhull - not exactly a 2-hr job! BTW: I have a GOOD look at all the thruhulls every year when I haul out. And, as far I can tell, this thruhull is still sound - it's the seacock that's failed (closed, fortunately!). Ideally I could replace the seacock with the boat still in the water, but as I said, I'd be afraid of damaging the thruhull. I will probably leave the thruhull and replace the seacock. Why? Because NEXT year, I'll be repairing the osmosis, which involves pretty much stripping the hull, and replacing the thruhulls would be trivial (required?) at that time. And, in general, I agree with your sentiment: after all, I've just spent $2000 to install a holding tank. I coworker was amazed: he'd just installed one a year or so ago, same size, $700. A few hours later, he was lamenting that it smelled...I recommended he buy your book. ;) I also have 10ft of "odorfree" 1.5" hose I could let him have cheap! Lloyd |
Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 18:41:27 +0000, Peggie Hall wrote:
Lloyd Sumpter wrote: The sink now drains into the bilge (we don't use it much anyway) Yccch...that oughta keep your boat smelling great. :( Not THAT bad - this is the sink in the head, used just for washing hands and brushing teeth. Lloyd |
Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
I must admit I wasn't thinking of pressure when looking at the 3/4" fitting, just whether or not it would clog. The "system" works, and the pump does not heat up - I would assume the increased pressure is equivalent to having to pump to a higher elevation (If I get enthusiastic, I'll brush off my rusty Process Control skills and calculate how much of a height of water would be equivalent to the 3/4" restriction...) And as for the advice, I was asking about whether a 1" hose is a good idea, not the 3/4" fitting, which I know is a bad idea, but better than dumping it into the bilge, which at this time is my other option. If the 1" hose is OK, I'll continue to use it when I replace the 1.5" seacock, otherwise I'll replace it. Lloyd On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 22:54:26 +0000, bomar wrote: The pressure will not be dissipated in the line to the thru hull (ok, yes there will be some pressure drop, but it's inconsequential), and the back pressure will increase with the additional hose length from the macerator. I think this is one of those scenarios where someone asks for advice but has made up their mind as to what they what to do and no amount of logic will dissuade them from straying from the course they have set. Gonna be one Hell of a mess.... "Peggie Hall" wrote in message ... bomar wrote: Peggie- Check your math.... Assuming true 1" and ¾" id, this is a reduction of 44% not 25% 3.14 (.5)² = .785 3.14 (.375)² = .4415 .4415 / .785 = .5625 ¾" hose is 56% of 1" hose, so the ¾" hose is 44% smaller, not 25% Thanks...math was never my strongest subject.:) I was only referring to the diameter. A 44% reduction in hose volume makes things even more interesting. Where he put the macerator will have a lot to do with it. So how 'bout applying a little more of your math skills. He said the hose is 10' long. The flow through a Jabsco macerator is 12 gal/minute. If he put it close to the tank--say within a foot, will the distance to the thru-hull permit enough dissipation in pressure to prevent backpressure? If he put the macerator at the other end--near the the thru-hull, it'll prob'ly be a moot point because the macerator will take so long to prime that the impeller will prob'ly fry before it can (Jabsco specs call for 4' max if the impeller is dry)....but assuming that it doesn't, what's likely to happen? I wonder why the the phrase "trying to stuff 12 lbs of $#!* into a 10 lb bag" has suddenly started running through my head.... :) Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html |
Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
Subject: Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
From: "Lloyd Sumpter" On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 18:41:27 +0000, Peggie Hall wrote: Lloyd Sumpter wrote: The sink now drains into the bilge (we don't use it much anyway) Yccch...that oughta keep your boat smelling great. :( Not THAT bad - this is the sink in the head, used just for washing hands and brushing teeth. Do yourself a favor and get it to drain over board. Capt. Bill |
Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 12:26:13 +0000, LaBomba182 wrote:
Subject: Hose off, now Thruhull problem! From: "Lloyd Sumpter" On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 18:41:27 +0000, Peggie Hall wrote: Lloyd Sumpter wrote: The sink now drains into the bilge (we don't use it much anyway) Yccch...that oughta keep your boat smelling great. :( Not THAT bad - this is the sink in the head, used just for washing hands and brushing teeth. Do yourself a favor and get it to drain over board. As I said earlier, I plan to. Other option is simply not have a sink in the head until I've replaced the sewage seacock. Lloyd |
Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 23:23:56 +0000, Peggie Hall wrote:
bomar wrote: I think this is one of those scenarios where someone asks for advice but has made up their mind as to what they what to do and no amount of logic will dissuade them from straying from the course they have set. Gonna be one Hell of a mess.... I couldn't add anything to that if I spent a whole day trying to think of something. :) (Rant mode ON) Ya know, this is a peeve I have about this NG, and even more so rec.boats.building. I'll ask for advice on one aspect of my project, get copious amounts of advice other parts (none on the part I want assistance on), and get dissed of ignoring the advice. In this case, I have a time and budget-constraint that keeps me from doing this as per the advice. (Story mode ON) I grew up on a farm. Here, maybe the tongue breaks on the haywagon. Now, the PROPER way it to have it welded. But: - you're in the middle of a hayfield, no welder in sight - the welder in town is closed all weekend, it's Saturday, and it's gonna rain on Sunday So...do you do it the "proper" way: take it to the welder and have your hay rained on? Or do you find a 2x4, strap it on with some baling-wire, and get the hay in? (Story mode OFF) I'm well aware of how it SHOULD be done, and it WILL be done that way when I haul the boat this winter (I won't mention the Project for fear of getting all kinds of advice on it...). The ONE thing I wanted advice on is whether or not I should continue to use the 1" hose, or convert to 1.5". THAT was never addressed! I was told to replace all the thruhulls, not use the 3/4" thruhull, use a thruhull for the sink (what, drill a new one??), not use the same thruhull for the sink as the sewage (I'm not), etc., but NOTHING on the topic I asked advice on! Maybe I tell too much - I should just post the part that I want advice on? (Rant mode OFF) Sorry, I do get lots of good advice from this NG, but sometimes I get frustrated... Lloyd |
Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
Lloyd-
Welcome to usenet, where the weak and sickly get thinned from the herd and devoured. All responses here are made from behind a wall of anonymity so sometimes it tends to be brutal but factual. Most of us here know you want to do the right thing and eventually will, but please allow us the pleasure of picking apart your blow by blow account for any weakness we may find and imploring our derision upon them. Ya get what ya pay for!!!! It's all (well mostly) in good spirit! Best of luck.... BTW.... I have personally "engineered" some emergency "repairs" that would curl your toes...ever tow an automobile down an interstate with jumper cables???? "Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message ... On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 23:23:56 +0000, Peggie Hall wrote: bomar wrote: I think this is one of those scenarios where someone asks for advice but has made up their mind as to what they what to do and no amount of logic will dissuade them from straying from the course they have set. Gonna be one Hell of a mess.... I couldn't add anything to that if I spent a whole day trying to think of something. :) (Rant mode ON) Ya know, this is a peeve I have about this NG, and even more so rec.boats.building. I'll ask for advice on one aspect of my project, get copious amounts of advice other parts (none on the part I want assistance on), and get dissed of ignoring the advice. In this case, I have a time and budget-constraint that keeps me from doing this as per the advice. (Story mode ON) I grew up on a farm. Here, maybe the tongue breaks on the haywagon. Now, the PROPER way it to have it welded. But: - you're in the middle of a hayfield, no welder in sight - the welder in town is closed all weekend, it's Saturday, and it's gonna rain on Sunday So...do you do it the "proper" way: take it to the welder and have your hay rained on? Or do you find a 2x4, strap it on with some baling-wire, and get the hay in? (Story mode OFF) I'm well aware of how it SHOULD be done, and it WILL be done that way when I haul the boat this winter (I won't mention the Project for fear of getting all kinds of advice on it...). The ONE thing I wanted advice on is whether or not I should continue to use the 1" hose, or convert to 1.5". THAT was never addressed! I was told to replace all the thruhulls, not use the 3/4" thruhull, use a thruhull for the sink (what, drill a new one??), not use the same thruhull for the sink as the sewage (I'm not), etc., but NOTHING on the topic I asked advice on! Maybe I tell too much - I should just post the part that I want advice on? (Rant mode OFF) Sorry, I do get lots of good advice from this NG, but sometimes I get frustrated... Lloyd |
Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
Subject: Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
From: "Lloyd Sumpter" As I said earlier, I plan to. Sorry, missed that part. Other option is simply not have a sink in the head until I've replaced the sewage seacock. Is there room under the sink to let it drain into a bucket that you could use to throw the sink leavings overboard from time to time? Capt. Bill |
Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 03:00:20 +0000, Peggie Hall wrote:
Most of us here know you want to do the right thing and eventually will, Lloyd's been around here a long time...I know him, 'cuz I have too--maybe even longer. He asked for advice about the things he wanted he wanted advice about..and deliberately didn't ask for any about this particular plumbing problem 'cuz he KNEW we'd tell him not to do it that way, but he'd already decided to do it anyway. Right, Lloyd? :))) Yup...because you'd tell me to get the haywagon welded! ;) So can I infer from this that you would recommend the 1.5" hose over the 1"? (Flailing away at that dead horse...) Love ya anyway, though! Love ya back! and I do appreciate your help! Lloyd |
Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
As I said, this is just the head sink - very little use and pretty much
all water. No big deal. It's a bigger deal than you think, Lloyd...'cuz ANY water in a bilge that's left to sit turns into a dark stagnant pond...and dark stagnant ponds STINK. -- Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327 http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html |
Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
So can I infer from this that you would recommend the 1.5" hose over the
1"? (Flailing away at that dead horse...) Not necessarily. The discharge on a macerator is 1"...I recommend that the hose and the thru-hull be the same size. And that the hose doesn't exceed the maximum length specified. It's hard to go too far wrong by following the directions....it's when people decide to get creative that they usually create more problems than they solve. Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327 http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html |
Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 15:07:34 +0000, Peggie Hall wrote:
As I said, this is just the head sink - very little use and pretty much all water. No big deal. It's a bigger deal than you think, Lloyd...'cuz ANY water in a bilge that's left to sit turns into a dark stagnant pond...and dark stagnant ponds STINK. Ah, so you're a proponent of the "dry bilge" philosophy. Tried that for awhile on Far Cove after I'd installed the drip-free shaft seal, but it's just not practical in my case. Yes, my bilge is always a stagnant pool of stinky "water" (mainly condensate from the fridge, rainwater from the leaky windows, condensate on the walls...and yes, fixing the leaking windows and making a proper, non-leaking mast collar are On My List Of Things To Do.) Lloyd |
Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
I guess you lost the farm by the way you practice maintenance. Just slap a
2x4 on and some bailing wire. The way you maintain your boat. Says a lot about your neglect for maintenance, and your lifestyle. I often wondered why certain people are constantly calling the Coast Guard for emergency assistance. Now I know. I only hope you have a Life Raft, PFD's, EPIRB and they're band new. I have a strong feeling your going to need them! All year long we are doing preventive maintenance. Making the boating experience much more enjoyable. We don't have to jury rig some BS contraption and worry if it's going to kill us. Jack "Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message ... On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 15:07:34 +0000, Peggie Hall wrote: As I said, this is just the head sink - very little use and pretty much all water. No big deal. It's a bigger deal than you think, Lloyd...'cuz ANY water in a bilge that's left to sit turns into a dark stagnant pond...and dark stagnant ponds STINK. Ah, so you're a proponent of the "dry bilge" philosophy. Tried that for awhile on Far Cove after I'd installed the drip-free shaft seal, but it's just not practical in my case. Yes, my bilge is always a stagnant pool of stinky "water" (mainly condensate from the fridge, rainwater from the leaky windows, condensate on the walls...and yes, fixing the leaking windows and making a proper, non-leaking mast collar are On My List Of Things To Do.) Lloyd |
Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 10:50:02 +0000, Jack Rye wrote:
I guess you lost the farm by the way you practice maintenance. Just slap a 2x4 on and some bailing wire. The way you maintain your boat. Says a lot about your neglect for maintenance, and your lifestyle. I often wondered why certain people are constantly calling the Coast Guard for emergency assistance. Now I know. I only hope you have a Life Raft, PFD's, EPIRB and they're band new. I have a strong feeling your going to need them! Well, I've been sailing the Chuck for 30 years, and have had to get towed in exactly ONCE. And I've never called the CG. Lloyd |
Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 21:13:50 +0000, bomar wrote:
Peggie- Check your math.... Assuming true 1" and ¾" id, this is a reduction of 44% not 25% 3.14 (.5)² = .785 3.14 (.375)² = .4415 .4415 / .785 = .5625 ¾" hose is 56% of 1" hose, so the ¾" hose is 44% smaller, not 25% Not trying to justify my decision, but...a "1 inch" hose barb is actually about 3/4" ID, which is very close to what my 3/4" ID thruhull is. So I would have a 3/4" restriction in my system no matter what. The smallest ID of my temporary system is 3/4", and it still will be when I convert back to a 1.5" thruhull. Lloyd |
Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
WaIIy wrote:
Would you recommend the 1" for the macerator toilet if it goes 8 feet to a holding tank or the 1 1/2" ? With the exception of older Jabsco toilets, which have 1" discharge, all marine toilets have 1.5" discharge fittings. All standard tank inlet and discharge fittings are also 1.5". The only equipment I know of that has a 1" discharge fitting are Jabsco and Johnson Pump discharge macerator pumps. So the answer to your question is, go with 1.5". And btw, 8' is stretching the distance any tank should be from the toilet. 6' or less is optimal (and btw, that's total feet of hose, not "as the crow flies"). Reason: 6'is as far as bowl contents will move in the maximum amount of time 99.999% of people will spend flushing the toilet--either pumping a manual or leaving their finger on the button. So if the tank is much further than 6' from the toilet, waste gets left sitting the head discharge hose to permeate it and even clog it. And speaking of how far bowl contents will move...any manual marine toilet that's working anywhere near specs can move bowl contents at least 6' in the dry mode...so it's not necessary to fill your holding tank with flush water to rinse out the head discharge hose. All you need is a quart or two behind the bowl contents. Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327 http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html |
Hose off, now Thruhull problem!
On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 22:55:54 +0000, Peggie Hall wrote:
Lloyd Sumpter wrote: Not trying to justify my decision, but...a "1 inch" hose barb is actually about 3/4" ID, The flaw in your logic, darlin', is that fitting measurements are ALWAYS OD, because it's the OD that has to fit into the ID of hoses. So when specs call for 3/4", that means a 3/4" hose is what should be used...and when they call for 1", a 1" hose should be used. The difference between the ID and OD of the fitting is already taken into account. When you use a smaller diameter hose, you are reducing the volume it can carry by the percentage bomar's math indicates. And the flaw in YOUR logic, darlin', is that I'm not using logic, I'm measuring. The smallest ID that my sewage has to go through is 3/4" (measured). This would also be true if I used a 1" thruhull, although the LENGTH of the 3/4" restriction would be 2" rather than 7", which is what is is now. Most pressure drop in a restriction such as this occurs AT the reduction. True, there's more pressure drop per ft in a smaller hose/pipe (fluid travelling faster), but not significant compared to the dP at the restriction itself (which is why we measure flow by measuring dP across a restrictor-plate). Now, I DO agree with you that 1" hose should be used on a 1" fitting, 3/4" hose on a 3/4" fitting, etc. - I HATE adapters! This is one reason I want to go 1" rather than 1.5" - eliminates the adapter (I'll still need an adapter to put my 1" hose on my 1.5" thruhull...) Lloyd |
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