JimH wrote:
"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 09:05:18 -0400, JimH penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

Just had to use a Chuck trick of mentioning piece a boating hardware to
make
this on topic.

Has anyone ditched their hot water tank(s) in their house and replaced
it/them with a tankless water heater?

Just curious as our two 50 gallon hot water tanks are 15 years and at/near
their useful life. Replacing them does not make sense with the advances
in
tankless water heater technology. Many of these tankless water heaters
are
also eligible for a $300 tax credit.

I am looking at the Bosch 2400E (natural gas) which can supply 2 showers
simultaneously, or so the specs say.

Any tankless water heater users out there?

I looked into this, but cannot, yet, justify it. A good system is
QUITE pricey. My personal take is that gas is the only way to go....
unless you have a LOT of extra ampacity in your electric supply (150A
or more).

Thus, the system is a big radiator, in reverse, that accepts BTU from
a gas flame (think either venting or exterior installation) and
transfers the heat to the water passing through the "radiator" on to
the hot water system. It only heats water on demand... except exterior
units have an ability to assure that the unit doesn't freeze in very
cold weather. Most of this is controlled by new fangled solid state
circuitry, which on some units is the Achilles heel. Frankly, that
doesn't have to be so, because my Dad said one of these units was in
his boarding house in Newport News when he lived there in 1929.

My division chair is looking hard at these units and his research has
led him to believe that these are the premier units:
http://www.foreverho****er.com/

There is also a lot of info at the site, too...

--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepage
http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/

Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats

You can grab the Bosch 2400E for $800 or so on Ebay, with another $200 for
the SS horizontal vent kit. Take away the $300 tax credit and you are
looking at about the same price of a good quality 40-50 gallon NG hot water
tank.

The rub.........you need a minimum 3/4" gas line. I just found this out
from a contractor quoting on the installation. We only have 1/2" at the hot
water tank room and our ceiling in the basement is finished. The only
solution is trenching in a new 1" line outside to the hot water tank room at
a cost of about $1,500.

The next rub......that same contractor quoted an install price of $1,500
over and beyond running a new gas line.

So we would be looking at a total cost of around $4,000.

Another contractor is coming in this afternoon for an estimate.

I just did some research into high efficiency hot water tanks (12 year
warranty, 2" insulation, electronic ignition) and it looks like it would
take 20 years to make up the difference in operating costs between these
units and the tankless.

It looks like a single new 50 gallon tank is in our future. ;-)



Or...you could tell the wimmins in your life to bathe in cold water.
That would guarantee bachelorhood...and lower energy costs.

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Apr 17, 6:05?am, "JimH" wrote:
Just had to use a Chuck trick of mentioning piece a boating hardware to
make
this on topic.


Yeah. There's a real obvious relationship between satellite signals
and a hot water tank.





Hey, at least mine involved WATER............and not friggin' bees.

Have a spectacular day Chuck.

On Apr 17, 11:48 am, Chuck Gould wrote:
On Apr 17, 6:05?am, "JimH" wrote:

Just had to use a Chuck trick of mentioning piece a boating hardware to make
this on topic.

Yeah. There's a real obvious relationship between satellite signals
and a hot water tank.

That's because Jim just isn't bright enough to actually be able to tie
the two together.

On Apr 17, 12:12 pm, Harry Krause wrote:
JimH wrote:
"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 09:05:18 -0400, JimH penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

Just had to use a Chuck trick of mentioning piece a boating hardware to
make
this on topic.

Has anyone ditched their hot water tank(s) in their house and replaced
it/them with a tankless water heater?

Just curious as our two 50 gallon hot water tanks are 15 years and at/near
their useful life. Replacing them does not make sense with the advances
in
tankless water heater technology. Many of these tankless water heaters
are
also eligible for a $300 tax credit.

I am looking at the Bosch 2400E (natural gas) which can supply 2 showers
simultaneously, or so the specs say.

Any tankless water heater users out there?

I looked into this, but cannot, yet, justify it. A good system is
QUITE pricey. My personal take is that gas is the only way to go....
unless you have a LOT of extra ampacity in your electric supply (150A
or more).

Thus, the system is a big radiator, in reverse, that accepts BTU from
a gas flame (think either venting or exterior installation) and
transfers the heat to the water passing through the "radiator" on to
the hot water system. It only heats water on demand... except exterior
units have an ability to assure that the unit doesn't freeze in very
cold weather. Most of this is controlled by new fangled solid state
circuitry, which on some units is the Achilles heel. Frankly, that
doesn't have to be so, because my Dad said one of these units was in
his boarding house in Newport News when he lived there in 1929.

My division chair is looking hard at these units and his research has
led him to believe that these are the premier units:
http://www.foreverho****er.com/

There is also a lot of info at the site, too...

--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepage
http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/

Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats

You can grab the Bosch 2400E for $800 or so on Ebay, with another $200 for
the SS horizontal vent kit. Take away the $300 tax credit and you are
looking at about the same price of a good quality 40-50 gallon NG hot water
tank.

The rub.........you need a minimum 3/4" gas line. I just found this out
from a contractor quoting on the installation. We only have 1/2" at the hot
water tank room and our ceiling in the basement is finished. The only
solution is trenching in a new 1" line outside to the hot water tank room at
a cost of about $1,500.

The next rub......that same contractor quoted an install price of $1,500
over and beyond running a new gas line.

So we would be looking at a total cost of around $4,000.

Another contractor is coming in this afternoon for an estimate.

I just did some research into high efficiency hot water tanks (12 year
warranty, 2" insulation, electronic ignition) and it looks like it would
take 20 years to make up the difference in operating costs between these
units and the tankless.

It looks like a single new 50 gallon tank is in our future. ;-)

Or...you could tell the wimmins in your life to bathe in cold water.
That would guarantee bachelorhood...and lower energy costs.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Only if the DO bathe......

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:07:36 -0400, JimH penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:



The rub.........you need a minimum 3/4" gas line. I just found this out
from a contractor quoting on the installation. We only have 1/2" at the
hot
water tank room and our ceiling in the basement is finished. The only
solution is trenching in a new 1" line outside to the hot water tank room
at
a cost of about $1,500.

The next rub......that same contractor quoted an install price of $1,500
over and beyond running a new gas line.


I know that I don't think like most people.... but it would be a cold
day in hell before I would pay a contractor $3,000 to do what it would
take me a Saturday to do.....

--


I agree. The problem is I am not too confident working with a natural gas
line.

Anyway, a second, and obviously more ethical contractor (35 years in
business) came in this afternoon with an estimate of $750 for the entire
installation, including running a new 3/4" gas line from the meter.

He also asked us to consider going with a single 50 gallon hot water tank
($650 installed and removing our 2 existing tanks). His reasoning:

1. The cost to operate the hot water tank, even with a standing pilot, is
about $250/year. The cost to run the tankless hot water heater would be at
about $150/year.

2. The tankless system has moving parts where as a tank does not. We have
never had to service a hot water tank (no moving parts) and got over 15
years on the 5 year warranty tanks we now have.

We are putting in a 50 gallon tank.

On Apr 17, 3:05 pm, Gene Kearns
wrote:
On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 14:47:14 -0400, JimH penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

He also asked us to consider going with a single 50 gallon hot water tank
($650 installed and removing our 2 existing tanks). His reasoning:

I would not, repeat NOT, put in one tank instead of two..... if they
are in separate locations. Think about how far your furthest faucet
would be from the new single tank. You may have the totally irritating
new experience of cutting on the hot water tap and waiting a lifetime
for hot water.....

Unless somebody tried to go cheap with a tiny tank and had to fix a
we-just-ran-out-of-hot-water problem by installing a second tank next
to the first, two hot water heaters were probably installed for good
reason.....

--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepagehttp://pamandgene.idleplay.net/

Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguidehttp://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats

We have one location for 2 tanks linked together. This was done when
we built the house 15 years ago. (BTW the existing tanks are 40
gallons, not 50). We no longer need that sort of capacity and will
have it replumbed for a single tank.

On Apr 17, 2:47 pm, "JimH" wrote:
"Gene Kearns" wrote in message

...





On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:07:36 -0400, JimH penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

The rub.........you need a minimum 3/4" gas line. I just found this out
from a contractor quoting on the installation. We only have 1/2" at the
hot
water tank room and our ceiling in the basement is finished. The only
solution is trenching in a new 1" line outside to the hot water tank room
at
a cost of about $1,500.

The next rub......that same contractor quoted an install price of $1,500
over and beyond running a new gas line.

I know that I don't think like most people.... but it would be a cold
day in hell before I would pay a contractor $3,000 to do what it would
take me a Saturday to do.....

--

I agree. The problem is I am not too confident working with a natural gas
line.

Anyway, a second, and obviously more ethical contractor (35 years in
business) came in this afternoon with an estimate of $750 for the entire
installation, including running a new 3/4" gas line from the meter.

He also asked us to consider going with a single 50 gallon hot water tank
($650 installed and removing our 2 existing tanks). His reasoning:

1. The cost to operate the hot water tank, even with a standing pilot, is
about $250/year. The cost to run the tankless hot water heater would be at
about $150/year.

2. The tankless system has moving parts where as a tank does not. We have
never had to service a hot water tank (no moving parts) and got over 15
years on the 5 year warranty tanks we now have.

We are putting in a 50 gallon tank.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Go ahead. But if you bathed, you'd be surprised at the savings. In
summer, when our natural gas is used for nothing except hot water and
cooking, my bill is half of what it was with a hot water heater.
Granted, our hot water tank heater was a builder grade one that wasn't
very efficient, but it still makes nothing but sense to do. Take your
$100 a year savings (and I'll bet you'll save much more than that).
Subtract the cost of your 50 gal hot water heater from the cost of an
on demand unit, then you'll be surprised at how little time it takes
to break even, then it's all downhill.

On Apr 17, 5:22 pm, "Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute"
wrote:
In ooglegroups.com,
basskisser sprach forth the following:

hot water heater.

Why do you need to heat hot water?

To make it hotter, perhaps? For your information, in real, scientific
terms, there is no cold, just less heat.

basskisser wrote:
On Apr 17, 5:22 pm, "Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute"
wrote:
In ooglegroups.com,
basskisser sprach forth the following:

hot water heater.
Why do you need to heat hot water?

To make it hotter, perhaps? For your information, in real, scientific
terms, there is no cold, just less heat.


Right. Got a cite for that, pot farmer?

"Dan" wrote in message
...
basskisser wrote:
On Apr 17, 5:22 pm, "Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute"
wrote:
In ooglegroups.com,
basskisser sprach forth the following:

hot water heater.
Why do you need to heat hot water?

To make it hotter, perhaps? For your information, in real, scientific
terms, there is no cold, just less heat.


Right. Got a cite for that, pot farmer?

I thought it was the other way. All is cold, and just add heat.