The Latest Bush-ism...
 

Sure Harry, we believe you. You say he said it....it *has* to be true then. Eh fella?


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Passed along...


Bush, commenting on Arnold...

"How come a guy from Australia has a German accent?"


Sure sounds like our boy-toy POTUS.




--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.

The Latest Bush-ism...
 

On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 12:44:21 GMT, "Jim" wrote:

Sure Harry, we believe you. You say he said it....it *has* to be true then. Eh fella?


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Passed along...


Bush, commenting on Arnold...

"How come a guy from Australia has a German accent?"


Sure sounds like our boy-toy POTUS.




--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.


Jim, why did you start a new thread as opposed to simply responding to the old
OT thread? Just wondering. I noticed jps does that a lot also.

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

The Latest Bush-ism...
 

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 12:44:21 GMT, "Jim" wrote:

Sure Harry, we believe you. You say he said it....it *has* to be true then. Eh
fella?


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Passed along...


Bush, commenting on Arnold...

"How come a guy from Australia has a German accent?"


Sure sounds like our boy-toy POTUS.




--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.


Jim, why did you start a new thread as opposed to simply responding to the old
OT thread? Just wondering. I noticed jps does that a lot also.

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

???????

I did not start a new thread. I simply responded to Harry within the thread he
started.

The Latest Bush-ism...
 

On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 12:41:41 +0000, wrote:


Is it just my newsreader? If so, I'll complain to Forte.

I don't know if it is just your newsreader. I'm using Pan and it is
still the same thread, albeit a different header.

The Latest Bush-ism...
 

On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 13:19:17 +0000, thunder wrote:

On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 12:41:41 +0000, wrote:


Is it just my newsreader? If so, I'll complain to Forte.

I suspect Forte does some filtering on the colon. OT: as opposed to
I guess it avoids those threads.

The Latest Bush-ism...
 

On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 13:49:46 +0000, wrote:


If you (and you specifically said you didn't) or your software
package arbitrarily changes the subject in a Usenet post then it
has caused the creation of another thread and should be depicted
as such.

Perhaps a quick read of RFC 2822 is in order.

Damn, Outlook Express isn't RFC compliant. What a shocker. ;-)

But I suspect Forte isn't either. Section 2.2 of the above RFC,
states that " Header fields are lines composed of a field name,
followed by a colon (":"), followed by a field body, and terminated
by CRLF. "

There wasn't any CRLF after the colon in OT:

The Latest Bush-ism...
 

Unbelievable. You need to get a life.


"." .@. wrote in message ...
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 13:19:17 -0400, "thunder" wrote:

On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 12:41:41 +0000, wrote:


Is it just my newsreader? If so, I'll complain to Forte.

I don't know if it is just your newsreader. I'm using Pan and it is
still the same thread, albeit a different header.

What do you mean, "different header"? Subject line? If so, that is my
point.

Let me rephrase my question. Did the subject change between the
original post and the post from Jim? It certainly appears to me that
it did. What is a newsreader supposed to do, ignore the required
"Subject: " header and go exclusively by the "Message-ID: " header? I
think not.

If you (and you specifically said you didn't) or your software package
arbitrarily changes the subject in a Usenet post then it has caused
the creation of another thread and should be depicted as such.

Perhaps a quick read of RFC 2822 is in order.

The original post had the following headers:

NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 07:32:44 -0500
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 08:31:54 -0400
From: Harry Krause
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.5a)
Gecko/20030625
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: OT: The Latest Bush-ism...
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-ID:
Lines: 17
NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.49.106.241
X-Trace:

sv3-9iR9HEnRG+cRFGVhREDwTEZIJmfNmTE5C/reP4Yn/3qoerRZeI3oy/aZVErefdwARgivR6/HsTOgXEm!M8S
1kyNPYFeCpmar6Ql0a7rMvJkuHvP4W8eC5fIXjdsV/8j6Zm6tYS+2iwc63A==
X-Complaints-To:
X-DMCA-Complaints-To:
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your
complaint properly
X-Postfilter: 1.1
Path:

corp-news!propagator3-maxim!news-in-maxim.spamkiller.net!news.he.net!newsfeed1.easynew s
..com!easynews.com!easynews!border3.nntp.aus1.giga news.com!intern1.nntp.aus1.giganews.co
m!nntp.giganews.com!nntp.comcast.com!news.comcast. com.POSTED!not-for-mail
Xref: 127.0.0.1 rec.boats:345003

The reply post from Jim had the following headers:

From: "Jim"
Newsgroups: rec.boats
References:
Subject: The Latest Bush-ism...
Lines: 23
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Message-ID: t
NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.131.208.36
X-Complaints-To:
X-Trace: rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net 1061556260 24.131.208.36 (Fri, 22
Aug 2003 12:44:20 GMT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 12:44:20 GMT
Organization: Comcast Online
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 12:44:21 GMT
Path:

corp-news!propagator3-maxim!feed-maxim.newsfeeds.com!border3.nntp.aus1.giganews.com !nnt
p.giganews.com!wn14feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.1 98.203!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!rwcrnsc5
1.ops.asp.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail
Xref: 127.0.0.1 rec.boats:345004

Again. If the subject has changed, you have started a new thread.

The Latest Bush-ism...
 

"Joe Parsons" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 12:41:41 -0400, . .@. wrote:

On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 16:31:56 GMT, "Jim"
wrote:


Actually I did not. I replied. I did not start a new thread.

Don't blame me for your problems with your ng reader.

Actually, I have a newsreader. You don't. You are using an email
program to approximate reading newsgroups.

Does anybody else see two different threads?

Is it just my newsreader? If so, I'll complain to Forte.

In Forté Agent, there's an option to "Start a new Thread when Followup Subject
Changes."

The reason a new thread was started is that "Jim"
apparently edited the Subject: line when he followed up, removing the "OT:"
That made the newsreader think it was a whole new thread--even though it had
been created as a follow-up, not a new article.

HTH,
Joe Parsons


Nope, I did no such thing. All I did was reply. I can honestly say that I do not know
how the OT was removed. I would have no reason for doing so.

The Latest Bush-ism...
 

On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 21:44:28 GMT, "Jim" wrote:


"Joe Parsons" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 12:41:41 -0400, . .@. wrote:

On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 16:31:56 GMT, "Jim"
wrote:


Actually I did not. I replied. I did not start a new thread.

Don't blame me for your problems with your ng reader.

Actually, I have a newsreader. You don't. You are using an email
program to approximate reading newsgroups.

Does anybody else see two different threads?

Is it just my newsreader? If so, I'll complain to Forte.

In Forté Agent, there's an option to "Start a new Thread when Followup Subject
Changes."

The reason a new thread was started is that "Jim"
apparently edited the Subject: line when he followed up, removing the "OT:"
That made the newsreader think it was a whole new thread--even though it had
been created as a follow-up, not a new article.

HTH,
Joe Parsons


Nope, I did no such thing. All I did was reply. I can honestly say that I do not know
how the OT was removed. I would have no reason for doing so.

Hmm...it was a weirdness in Outhouse Excuse. :) I just duplicated the
behavior. Evidently, OE strips out the "OT:"

So you have been exonerated for "changing the subject."

But you're still on the hook for using a lame news client like Outhouse Excuse.
:)

Joe Parsons

The Latest Bush-ism...
 

"." .@. wrote in message
...
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 13:19:17 -0400, "thunder" wrote:

On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 12:41:41 +0000, wrote:


Is it just my newsreader? If so, I'll complain to Forte.

I don't know if it is just your newsreader. I'm using Pan and it is
still the same thread, albeit a different header.

What do you mean, "different header"? Subject line? If so, that is my
point.

Let me rephrase my question. Did the subject change between the
original post and the post from Jim? It certainly appears to me that
it did. What is a newsreader supposed to do, ignore the required
"Subject: " header and go exclusively by the "Message-ID: " header? I
think not.



That's what happens when you use one of these high performance newsreaders!
Go old OE could care less what the header reads. It groups them because it
is a response to the previous post. Change the header completely in your
response and OE still sticks it where it belongs!

Just pulling your chain a bit. I have used a few different news readers, but
stick with OE. It is simple, and it does what I want.
Greg

The Latest Bush-ism...
 

On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 12:41:41 -0400, . .@. wrote:

On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 16:31:56 GMT, "Jim"
wrote:


Actually I did not. I replied. I did not start a new thread.

Don't blame me for your problems with your ng reader.

Actually, I have a newsreader. You don't. You are using an email
program to approximate reading newsgroups.

Does anybody else see two different threads?

Is it just my newsreader? If so, I'll complain to Forte.

Go to 'Options', 'General Preferences', then click on the 'Message
List' tab. Uncheck 'Start a new thread when a follow-up subject
changes.' Presto-chango, now acts like newer 'newsreaders.'

--
TAmerican

The Latest Bush-ism...
 

Steven Shelikoff wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 12:41:41 -0400, . .@. wrote:


On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 16:31:56 GMT, "Jim"
wrote:



Actually I did not. I replied. I did not start a new thread.

Don't blame me for your problems with your ng reader.

Actually, I have a newsreader. You don't. You are using an email
program to approximate reading newsgroups.

Does anybody else see two different threads?

Is it just my newsreader? If so, I'll complain to Forte.


It's just your newsreader. I'm using Forte Free Agent and the messages
are in the same thread, which is strange since you'd think Agent would
work at least as well as Free Agent. Is there some control you have set
wrong? If you're sorting by subject instead of by thread, that would
explain what you're seeing. Sorting by thread should use the
References: field of the header to thread the messages, and should do it
properly even if the subject changes.

P.S., Netscape also properly shows it as a single thread.

Steve

The Latest Bush-ism...
 

But you're still on the hook for using a lame news client like Outhouse
Excuse.
:)


Outlook Express works just fine. Not lame at all.

The Latest Bush-ism...
 

"WaIIy" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 16:10:58 -0400, "Gary Warner"
wrote:



"Greg O" wrote in message
...
That's what happens when you use one of these high performance
newsreaders!
Go old OE could care less what the header reads. It groups them because
it
is a response to the previous post. Change the header completely in
your
response and OE still sticks it where it belongs!

Just pulling your chain a bit. I have used a few different news
readers,
but
stick with OE. It is simple, and it does what I want.
Greg


Here. Here. People seem to bash Outlook Express quite a lot
but it's essentially free (comes with windows), does everything
I need, is easy to use, is easy to setup, starts up quickly, etc.

And you can call it an email program if you want but it's
got lots of tools for reading newsgroups that have NOTHING
to do with email. It's really both tools in one. And it
handles them both just fine.


Yes, and OE is the garbage disposal of e-mail clients.

It inhales every worm, trojan and virus that comes along.


Really? They all hit OE on my machine, but are crushed by either ZoneAlarm
(firewall), or McAfee Viruscan, two things which all machines should have,
regardless of the email/news clients being used.

I'm all for stringing up Bill Gates and dropping firecrackers into his
shorts, but the fact is that some MS software works quite well. The biggest
problem with OE and any other client is that too many users don't bother to
read the instructions. It can do much more than meets the eye of the lazy
user.

The Latest Bush-ism...
 

On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 16:10:58 -0400, "Gary Warner" wrote:



"Greg O" wrote in message
...
That's what happens when you use one of these high performance
newsreaders!
Go old OE could care less what the header reads. It groups them because it
is a response to the previous post. Change the header completely in your
response and OE still sticks it where it belongs!

Just pulling your chain a bit. I have used a few different news readers,
but
stick with OE. It is simple, and it does what I want.
Greg


Here. Here. People seem to bash Outlook Express quite a lot
but it's essentially free (comes with windows), does everything
I need, is easy to use, is easy to setup, starts up quickly, etc.

And you can call it an email program if you want but it's
got lots of tools for reading newsgroups that have NOTHING
to do with email. It's really both tools in one. And it
handles them both just fine.

Add me to the "Free Agent" list. I've used both Outlook and Forte Free Agent for
usenet reading. There is no comparison. Here's the URL. Try the free version,
then pay the small price for the full version. It's great.

http://www.forteinc.com/main/homepage.php


John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

The Latest Bush-ism...
 

"WaIIy" wrote in message
...

Yes, and OE is the garbage disposal of e-mail clients.

It inhales every worm, trojan and virus that comes along.




Really?
I have been using OE for 5? years for e-mail and groups. Sure I may get a
suspicious e-mail, but I just delete anything I don't recognize anyway. No
virus or worms here! No fire wall or virus software either!
Greg

The Latest Bush-ism...
 

"WaIIy" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 17:49:12 -0500, "Greg O"
wrote:


"WaIIy" wrote in message
.. .

Yes, and OE is the garbage disposal of e-mail clients.

It inhales every worm, trojan and virus that comes along.




Really?
I have been using OE for 5? years for e-mail and groups. Sure I may get a
suspicious e-mail, but I just delete anything I don't recognize anyway. No
virus or worms here! No fire wall or virus software either!
Greg

You're a lucky guy.


I have always used OE and have never had any problems arising from it's use. I run a
basic fire wall (Zone Alarm) and Norton Anti-virus with automatic updates.

The Latest Bush-ism...
 

"WaIIy" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 16:10:58 -0400, "Gary Warner"
wrote:



"Greg O" wrote in message
...
That's what happens when you use one of these high performance
newsreaders!
Go old OE could care less what the header reads. It groups them because
it
is a response to the previous post. Change the header completely in
your
response and OE still sticks it where it belongs!

Just pulling your chain a bit. I have used a few different news
readers,
but
stick with OE. It is simple, and it does what I want.
Greg


Here. Here. People seem to bash Outlook Express quite a lot
but it's essentially free (comes with windows), does everything
I need, is easy to use, is easy to setup, starts up quickly, etc.

And you can call it an email program if you want but it's
got lots of tools for reading newsgroups that have NOTHING
to do with email. It's really both tools in one. And it
handles them both just fine.


Yes, and OE is the garbage disposal of e-mail clients.

It inhales every worm, trojan and virus that comes along.



I have both Free Agent and OE. I prefer OE for news. Better treading. As
to sucking up virus, etc. Set it to not run java scripts and other HTML
active X programs. IF you want to run them then you have to click on the
link. Plus I have Norton anti-virus and a firewall, so have not had a virus
in years. And that was from a work machine, that was already infected when
they gave me the floppies from it.
Bill

The Latest Bush-ism...
 

"JohnH" wrote in message
...


Add me to the "Free Agent" list. I've used both Outlook and Forte Free
Agent for
usenet reading. There is no comparison. Here's the URL. Try the free
version,
then pay the small price for the full version. It's great.

http://www.forteinc.com/main/homepage.php


John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

I tried Forte products about year ago, along with a few other non-MS
programs. If I recall correctly, Agent either won't handle multiple e-mail
accounts, and the help system takes you to their web site, instead of having
those files resident on the user's machine. Is that still the case?

The Latest Bush-ism...
 

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:23:44 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .


Add me to the "Free Agent" list. I've used both Outlook and Forte Free
Agent for
usenet reading. There is no comparison. Here's the URL. Try the free
version,
then pay the small price for the full version. It's great.

http://www.forteinc.com/main/homepage.php


John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

I tried Forte products about year ago, along with a few other non-MS
programs. If I recall correctly, Agent either won't handle multiple
e-mail
accounts,

This is true, but the next version, out soon, will address that
particular problem. Even then, I'm not sure that I will consider
Agent to be a full featured email client. Try The Bat!, Pocomail, or
Eudora if you want mail.

and the help system takes you to their web site, instead of having
those files resident on the user's machine. Is that still the case?

Nope. I don't ever remember that being the case, though Agent support
is available through the "Help" menu. IMHO, that is a good idea.
Instead of asking you to buy another iteration of the program (like
Micro$oft) Agent puts new and updated programs and information on
their website.... for free. Best way I know of to have the most up to
date program and information for the best price.

That last point is a good one, but still, placing all the help files on the
publisher's web site is a major design sin. The excuse often given is that
the company can update the help files as needed, but that's a crock. The
same help files can also be downloaded to the user's machine to replace the
previous ones. A user should never have to depend on a connection which may
not exist at certain times, for one reason or another.

The Latest Bush-ism...
 

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:55:01 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


and the help system takes you to their web site, instead of having
those files resident on the user's machine. Is that still the case?

Nope. I don't ever remember that being the case, though Agent support
is available through the "Help" menu. IMHO, that is a good idea.
Instead of asking you to buy another iteration of the program (like
Micro$oft) Agent puts new and updated programs and information on
their website.... for free. Best way I know of to have the most up to
date program and information for the best price.

That last point is a good one, but still, placing all the help files on
the
publisher's web site is a major design sin. The excuse often given is
that
the company can update the help files as needed, but that's a crock. The
same help files can also be downloaded to the user's machine to replace
the
previous ones. A user should never have to depend on a connection which
may
not exist at certain times, for one reason or another.


I don't disagree. Not sure I made this clear. I have a full Agent
"Help" menu resident on my computer. More information (and more
current information) is available through their website.


OK. Now I'm awake. :-)