Steve Cramer wrote:
Does anyone remember the Tribalance kayak? I seem to recall it was
designed by John Winters.

The fact that almost no one remembers it should tell you something.

It also occurs to me that Elliott's invention might be just the thing
for getting handicapped paddlers out on the water.

You're giving him too much credit. It's not an "invention", it's merely
another take on an old idea, evidently from another non-paddler looking
to "improve" the kayak. What these "inventors" are forgetting - or just
don't get - is that KAYAK ARE DESIGNED THE WAY THEY ARE FOR A REASON
and the design doesn't need their "improvements".

As for adaptive paddling, you're correct. It's about the only real use
for such devices, but that's not how people try to market them. If he
had promoted his device as an adaptive paddling aid rather than as a way
to "fix" something that isn't broken, I'll bet he would have gotten
favorable responses.

Geez, cut the guy some slack, woodja? It's a school project,
fercrissakes. He's not an inventor, he hasn't built any of these things,
he and his classmates just got an idea and went to paddlers (what a
concept!) to see if the idea had legs. Now he knows it doesn't. No need
to beat him up.

Steve

Steve Cramer wrote:
Geez, cut the guy some slack, woodja? It's a school project,
fercrissakes. He's not an inventor, he hasn't built any of these things,
he and his classmates just got an idea and went to paddlers (what a
concept!) to see if the idea had legs. Now he knows it doesn't. No need
to beat him up.

Steve
Steve,
I agree. Give him feedback but don't belittle him.
Al K

Al K wrote:
Steve Cramer wrote:
Geez, cut the guy some slack, woodja? It's a school project,
fercrissakes. He's not an inventor, he hasn't built any of these
things, he and his classmates just got an idea and went to paddlers
(what a concept!) to see if the idea had legs. Now he knows it
doesn't. No need to beat him up.

Steve
Steve,
I agree. Give him feedback but don't belittle him.

Lighten up, will ya?. If anything, we're doing him a BIG favor. We may
be a tough crowd, but we're nothing compared to what he would face in
the actual marketplace. It's better that he takes few lumps and learns a
valuable lesson about market research while he's still in school. He may
well thank us one day.

How many times can I say this? He is not a manufacturer. He's a freaking
business student, who has just learned that it's a good idea to survey
his target market.

Gedanken experiment: how would you have answered if you hadn't had the
Sp**son experience? Several people mentioned it specifically, which
indicates that this guy caught a bunch of residual crap aimed at Timmy.

I don't think I'm the one who need to lighten up.

And by the way, there are a number of brands of canoe and kayak
flotation enhancers on the market, and guess what, people do buy them.
Not US, of course, but, surprising as it may be, the paddling sun does
not rise and set on the 25 or so people who still post here.

Steve

Brian Nystrom wrote:
Al K wrote:
Steve Cramer wrote:
Geez, cut the guy some slack, woodja? It's a school project,
fercrissakes. He's not an inventor, he hasn't built any of these
things, he and his classmates just got an idea and went to paddlers
(what a concept!) to see if the idea had legs. Now he knows it
doesn't. No need to beat him up.

Steve
Steve,
I agree. Give him feedback but don't belittle him.

Lighten up, will ya?. If anything, we're doing him a BIG favor. We may
be a tough crowd, but we're nothing compared to what he would face in
the actual marketplace. It's better that he takes few lumps and learns a
valuable lesson about market research while he's still in school. He may
well thank us one day.

Steve Cramer wrote:
How many times can I say this? He is not a manufacturer. He's a freaking
business student, who has just learned that it's a good idea to survey
his target market.

Hello??? I wrote "It's better that he takes few lumps and learns
a valuable lesson about market research while he's still in
school.", so obviously I know he's a student. Wake up, will ya?

Gedanken experiment: how would you have answered if you hadn't had the
Sp**son experience? Several people mentioned it specifically, which
indicates that this guy caught a bunch of residual crap aimed at Timmy.

Did I say anything about sponsons?

And by the way, there are a number of brands of canoe and kayak
flotation enhancers on the market, and guess what, people do buy them.

That doesn't make them a good idea or a viable product.

On Apr 2, 8:10 am, Brian Nystrom wrote:
Steve Cramer wrote:
How many times can I say this? He is not a manufacturer. He's a freaking
business student, who has just learned that it's a good idea to survey
his target market.

Hello??? I wrote "It's better that he takes few lumps and learns
a valuable lesson about market research while he's still in
school.", so obviously I know he's a student. Wake up, will ya?

Gedanken experiment: how would you have answered if you hadn't had the
Sp**son experience? Several people mentioned it specifically, which
indicates that this guy caught a bunch of residual crap aimed at Timmy.

Did I say anything about sponsons?

And by the way, there are a number of brands of canoe and kayak
flotation enhancers on the market, and guess what, people do buy them.

That doesn't make them a good idea or a viable product.

You guys are so mean!
I assumed that he was doing a marketing thing and suggested offfline
that he interview kayakers and canoers on the Charles River and get
some "real customer" responses- more interesting from beginners.
I find it interesting that there are a lot of boat products being sold
which with a bit of proficiency become obsolete to the user; really
wide kayaks, canoes, rowing craft etc. But there are users who for a
variety of reasons never "graduate" - lack of coordination,
physically challenged including overweight or obese, etc. I do not
know your profiles, but I would imagine you represent the top 5% of
the paddling crowd. Think of how many people you represent who tried
out a boat of some kind for awhile and then just faded away... Now
THAT would be a really interesting research project...

Brian Nystrom wrote:
Steve Cramer wrote:
How many times can I say this? He is not a manufacturer. He's a
freaking business student, who has just learned that it's a good idea
to survey his target market.

Hello??? I wrote "It's better that he takes few lumps and learns
a valuable lesson about market research while he's still in
school.", so obviously I know he's a student. Wake up, will ya?

And what, exactly is the lesson? Don't ask questions in a newsgroup that
has been sensitized by a wacko?

Gedanken experiment: how would you have answered if you hadn't had the
Sp**son experience? Several people mentioned it specifically, which
indicates that this guy caught a bunch of residual crap aimed at Timmy.

Did I say anything about sponsons?

Did you need to? You may be the only one who didn't use the word.

And by the way, there are a number of brands of canoe and kayak
flotation enhancers on the market, and guess what, people do buy them.

That doesn't make them a good idea or a viable product.

If you say so. You should be sure to get ahold of these guys
http://www.castlecraft.com/stabilizers.htm
http://www.sailboatstogo.com/v_page....noe_outriggers
http://www.huki.com/store/
and about a hundred outrigger canoe clubs and tell them they're wasting
their time.

Steve

Steve, how do you know he's "a freaking business student"?

O, yeh: you read it on the Internet.

It's hard for me, today, to imagine how I would have behaved when I
was 40 years younger and less-experienced, but I'm troubled by the
fact that he hasn't come back and tried to engage any of us in our
criticisms. I'd think, if he were really a student at a high-end
university, and this were really a class project for credit, he would
not have relplied -- hurt and puzzled, perhaps -- trying to find out
what the h. we're going on about.

I think it's all a set-up. Maybe by our friend, or maybe by someone
else.

-Richard, His Kanubic Travesty
--
================================================== ====================
Richard Hopley Winston-Salem, NC, USA
.. rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net
.. Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll
.. rhopley[at]wfubmc[dot]edu
.. OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters
================================================== ====================


On Apr 1, 9:05 pm, Steve Cramer wrote:
How many times can I say this? He is not a manufacturer. He's a freaking
business student, who has just learned that it's a good idea to survey
his target market.

Gedanken experiment: how would you have answered if you hadn't had the
Sp**son experience? Several people mentioned it specifically, which
indicates that this guy caught a bunch of residual crap aimed at Timmy.

I don't think I'm the one who need to lighten up.

And by the way, there are a number of brands of canoe and kayak
flotation enhancers on the market, and guess what, people do buy them.
Not US, of course, but, surprising as it may be, the paddling sun does
not rise and set on the 25 or so people who still post here.

Steve



Brian Nystrom wrote:
Al K wrote:
Steve Cramer wrote:
Geez, cut the guy some slack, woodja? It's a school project,
fercrissakes. He's not an inventor, he hasn't built any of these
things, he and his classmates just got an idea and went to paddlers
(what a concept!) to see if the idea had legs. Now he knows it
doesn't. No need to beat him up.

Steve
Steve,
I agree. Give him feedback but don't belittle him.

Lighten up, will ya?. If anything, we're doing him a BIG favor. We may
be a tough crowd, but we're nothing compared to what he would face in
the actual marketplace. It's better that he takes few lumps and learns a
valuable lesson about market research while he's still in school. He may
well thank us one day.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You think this is a set-up by He-whose-name-must-not-be-spoken, Richard?
I think your tinfoil beanie is on a little too tight.

Judging from the responses, I'm NOT surprised he hasn't come back. Why
would he want to spend time corresponding with a bunch of people who
immediately jump to the conclusion that he's a fraud? A reasonable
reaction would be "F*** you all and the canoes you paddled in on."

You'll note that i explicitly invited him back. Perhaps we'll learn
something if he responds. You may be right.

Steve

Oci-One Kanubi wrote:
Steve, how do you know he's "a freaking business student"?

O, yeh: you read it on the Internet.

It's hard for me, today, to imagine how I would have behaved when I
was 40 years younger and less-experienced, but I'm troubled by the
fact that he hasn't come back and tried to engage any of us in our
criticisms. I'd think, if he were really a student at a high-end
university, and this were really a class project for credit, he would
not have relplied -- hurt and puzzled, perhaps -- trying to find out
what the h. we're going on about.

I think it's all a set-up. Maybe by our friend, or maybe by someone
else.

-Richard, His Kanubic Travesty
--
================================================== ====================
Richard Hopley Winston-Salem, NC, USA
. rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net
. Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll
. rhopley[at]wfubmc[dot]edu
. OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters
================================================== ====================


On Apr 1, 9:05 pm, Steve Cramer wrote:
How many times can I say this? He is not a manufacturer. He's a freaking
business student, who has just learned that it's a good idea to survey
his target market.

Gedanken experiment: how would you have answered if you hadn't had the
Sp**son experience? Several people mentioned it specifically, which
indicates that this guy caught a bunch of residual crap aimed at Timmy.

I don't think I'm the one who need to lighten up.

And by the way, there are a number of brands of canoe and kayak
flotation enhancers on the market, and guess what, people do buy them.
Not US, of course, but, surprising as it may be, the paddling sun does
not rise and set on the 25 or so people who still post here.

Steve



Brian Nystrom wrote:
Al K wrote:
Steve Cramer wrote:
Geez, cut the guy some slack, woodja? It's a school project,
fercrissakes. He's not an inventor, he hasn't built any of these
things, he and his classmates just got an idea and went to paddlers
(what a concept!) to see if the idea had legs. Now he knows it
doesn't. No need to beat him up.
Steve
Steve,
I agree. Give him feedback but don't belittle him.
Lighten up, will ya?. If anything, we're doing him a BIG favor. We may
be a tough crowd, but we're nothing compared to what he would face in
the actual marketplace. It's better that he takes few lumps and learns a
valuable lesson about market research while he's still in school. He may
well thank us one day.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -